Teachers get it handy!

Started by wherefromreferee?, June 20, 2008, 08:49:07 AM

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Il Bomber Destro

Quote from: Longshanks on June 22, 2017, 11:25:23 AM
Bomber your obviously a WOM, my wife is a teacher and plenty of her friends are and she works 8-5 and then comes home and can be marking 2-3 hours per night (which they don't get paid for) and also marks at the weekends. I'm thankful that I'm in a job thats 9-5 and I dont worry about it in the evening or the weekend.

The fully deserve in holidays they get, if you think its such an easy job then maybe get into it yourself.

She works 8-5?

Does she now? She clocks into school and starts working bang on 8am and finishes at 5pm leaving the school? How many hours off has she in between? 8am-5pm with lunch breaks inclusive is a standard 40 hour working week for a lot of people, the problem with teachers is that if they do anything above the bare minimum they think they are martyrs. Teachers live in a bubble, they are institutionalised to think they have to work hard, in contrast with others they have it easy street. They never experience work outside of teaching so forgive me if I laugh when others accuse critics of teachers perks of not being able to comment on it when teachers have no practical experience of the vice versa.

It all boils down to the 3/4 months holidays teachers get every year and the sense of entitlement attached to it. What makes teachers entitled to this over any other and let us for once knock this on the head that this is not the main reason people pursue teaching as a career. If it wasn't such a big deal then why isn't it taken away and have teachers brought in line with all other public sector workers.

Teachers do not fully deserve the holidays they get. Plenty of people work hard, they do extra hours they get nothing for at work, many, many people in the private sector will do lots of extra hours in work they don't get paid for. Many see it as part of the parcel of work, teachers have a sense of entitlement to 3/4 months holidays which is not in existence in any other line of work.

As I said, let us see how many people fancy teaching as a profession without the 3/4 months holidays.

manfromdelmonte

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 23, 2017, 06:36:27 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 22, 2017, 03:30:54 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 22, 2017, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 22, 2017, 12:13:33 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 22, 2017, 11:17:40 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 22, 2017, 10:01:30 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 22, 2017, 06:40:44 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 17, 2017, 12:04:38 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 17, 2017, 10:40:20 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 17, 2017, 09:10:28 AM
Ha so says Bomber who was never a teacher!!

The legality of sending a child to school with a recording device, is breaking the law right there,

So only those who have 3/4 months annual leave in the year are entitled to comment on whether it is justified or not?

You'd soon find the real reason people take a career in teaching up if the annual leave entitlements were brought in line with other public sector workers.

Says the person who doesn't understand the idea of 'paid leave' or how teachers are paid.

Teachers are very well paid for their work. Their problem is that their place of employment only opens for 195 days per year.  So, their pay is limited.  They do not have the benefit of being able to work on the 42 days that others in full time employment can avail of.

They are only paid for working 195 days each year plus 28 days paid leave rather than the maximum 237 days ((53x5) - 28) that would be the norm for all other workers in full time employment who also receive 28 days paid leave. 

Up until the 1980s, teachers did not receive payment outside the school year.  Then a government decision was taken that payment should be spread over 12 months and not 10 months to ease and smooth the cash flow in the public sector purse.  This is now the norm for all public sector employees employed for less than 237 days.  So, at that time, teachers accepted a reduction in their monthly salaries because they were still paid for their work but payment was spread over the whole year.

Nowadays, under legislation for all employees, teachers get 28 days of holiday pay like all other public sector employees but this is subsumed into school closures. There was no increase in salary to take account of this change. Only 4 years ago, teachers received this right to the 28 days of paid holiday like every other worker.  A teacher ill for a period that does end before the summer break is entitled like every other worker to take all lost holidays before returning to work but if the period off is followed by the summer break then it is assumed that lost holidays are taken during the summer break.

However, teachers on temporary contracts, where they are paid the daily rate, remain without the right to holiday pay.  They are effectively on a form of zero hours contracts.  They earn the same as their permanent and temporary one year contracted colleagues over the year but are paid more per month, in any month without school closures, because they receive the daily rate = salary/195 rather than having it spread over the whole year.  They are only paid on the days they work and are unemployed outside the 195 days the school is open.

In short, teachers receive no more paid holidays than any other public sector employee, they are just very well paid on the 195 days they work and the statutory 28 days of paid holiday enjoyed by all.

Semantics.

They get paid throughout the year and are off work for 3/4 months of it.

Overpaid and underworked. There's never a shortage of teachers because people get into teaching for the holidays, take the holiday package away and bring it in line with other public sector areas and the amount of people pursuing teaching as a career would drop dramatically.

It then might stop teachers complaining about a lack of hours.

I think you meant underpaid and overworked. If you know nothing about a topic bomber you really shouldn't comment on it. As for people go into teaching for the holidays, wrong again. I never met a teacher who did that. In fact, I know quite a few, including myself, who got out of teaching despite the holidays

No I didn't. I've worked and lived with teachers so I do have my own insights to what they do. You said you never knew a teacher got it in for the holidays. Brilliant, so there should be no objection if teachers were put to working during the school breaks with community based projects.

Teachers live in a bubble. They are overpaid and underworked.

Are you a teacher or married to one?

So you have no first hand experience of teaching do you? Why would they do community based projects? Although I know quite a few who do that kind of work during holidays, running summer camps etc, but why would they? Would you put a doctor onto community based projects during thir time off? A binman? A solicitor? So why a teacher
I will say it again, with first hand experience, unlike you. Teachers are overworked and underpaid

Why would they do community based projects? Because for one quarter of the working year they do nothing. Teachers are like unionists in that they feel a sense of entitlement to perks that others don't have and never will

It's quite simple really. If the very generous holidays that teachers get are not a reason or incentive for people pursuing that career then it shouldn't be a problem scrapping that entitlement and bringing it in line with other, already generous, public sector employment.

Teachers are very defensive about their  3 months holidays. They feel a sense of entitlement to them. Why do they feel they deserve them in contrast with other workers?

you do not have a clue what you are talking about and quite clearly now nothing about the working lives of teachers. Cheerio

I would counter that teachers would not know anything about a working life. They have more in common with benefits recipients than the working man.
I worked in sales reping and other stuff before teaching.
yeah, it was a longer day in thos ejobs, but the teaching takes a lot of preparation is quite tiring and can be quite stressful with certain pupils and silly parents

and its the kids who need the break as well
they are wrecked at the moment with the heat

Il Bomber Destro

Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 23, 2017, 08:00:38 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 23, 2017, 06:36:27 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 22, 2017, 03:30:54 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 22, 2017, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 22, 2017, 12:13:33 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 22, 2017, 11:17:40 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 22, 2017, 10:01:30 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 22, 2017, 06:40:44 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 17, 2017, 12:04:38 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 17, 2017, 10:40:20 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 17, 2017, 09:10:28 AM
Ha so says Bomber who was never a teacher!!

The legality of sending a child to school with a recording device, is breaking the law right there,

So only those who have 3/4 months annual leave in the year are entitled to comment on whether it is justified or not?

You'd soon find the real reason people take a career in teaching up if the annual leave entitlements were brought in line with other public sector workers.

Says the person who doesn't understand the idea of 'paid leave' or how teachers are paid.

Teachers are very well paid for their work. Their problem is that their place of employment only opens for 195 days per year.  So, their pay is limited.  They do not have the benefit of being able to work on the 42 days that others in full time employment can avail of.

They are only paid for working 195 days each year plus 28 days paid leave rather than the maximum 237 days ((53x5) - 28) that would be the norm for all other workers in full time employment who also receive 28 days paid leave. 

Up until the 1980s, teachers did not receive payment outside the school year.  Then a government decision was taken that payment should be spread over 12 months and not 10 months to ease and smooth the cash flow in the public sector purse.  This is now the norm for all public sector employees employed for less than 237 days.  So, at that time, teachers accepted a reduction in their monthly salaries because they were still paid for their work but payment was spread over the whole year.

Nowadays, under legislation for all employees, teachers get 28 days of holiday pay like all other public sector employees but this is subsumed into school closures. There was no increase in salary to take account of this change. Only 4 years ago, teachers received this right to the 28 days of paid holiday like every other worker.  A teacher ill for a period that does end before the summer break is entitled like every other worker to take all lost holidays before returning to work but if the period off is followed by the summer break then it is assumed that lost holidays are taken during the summer break.

However, teachers on temporary contracts, where they are paid the daily rate, remain without the right to holiday pay.  They are effectively on a form of zero hours contracts.  They earn the same as their permanent and temporary one year contracted colleagues over the year but are paid more per month, in any month without school closures, because they receive the daily rate = salary/195 rather than having it spread over the whole year.  They are only paid on the days they work and are unemployed outside the 195 days the school is open.

In short, teachers receive no more paid holidays than any other public sector employee, they are just very well paid on the 195 days they work and the statutory 28 days of paid holiday enjoyed by all.

Semantics.

They get paid throughout the year and are off work for 3/4 months of it.

Overpaid and underworked. There's never a shortage of teachers because people get into teaching for the holidays, take the holiday package away and bring it in line with other public sector areas and the amount of people pursuing teaching as a career would drop dramatically.

It then might stop teachers complaining about a lack of hours.

I think you meant underpaid and overworked. If you know nothing about a topic bomber you really shouldn't comment on it. As for people go into teaching for the holidays, wrong again. I never met a teacher who did that. In fact, I know quite a few, including myself, who got out of teaching despite the holidays

No I didn't. I've worked and lived with teachers so I do have my own insights to what they do. You said you never knew a teacher got it in for the holidays. Brilliant, so there should be no objection if teachers were put to working during the school breaks with community based projects.

Teachers live in a bubble. They are overpaid and underworked.

Are you a teacher or married to one?

So you have no first hand experience of teaching do you? Why would they do community based projects? Although I know quite a few who do that kind of work during holidays, running summer camps etc, but why would they? Would you put a doctor onto community based projects during thir time off? A binman? A solicitor? So why a teacher
I will say it again, with first hand experience, unlike you. Teachers are overworked and underpaid

Why would they do community based projects? Because for one quarter of the working year they do nothing. Teachers are like unionists in that they feel a sense of entitlement to perks that others don't have and never will

It's quite simple really. If the very generous holidays that teachers get are not a reason or incentive for people pursuing that career then it shouldn't be a problem scrapping that entitlement and bringing it in line with other, already generous, public sector employment.

Teachers are very defensive about their  3 months holidays. They feel a sense of entitlement to them. Why do they feel they deserve them in contrast with other workers?

you do not have a clue what you are talking about and quite clearly now nothing about the working lives of teachers. Cheerio

I would counter that teachers would not know anything about a working life. They have more in common with benefits recipients than the working man.
I worked in sales reping and other stuff before teaching.
yeah, it was a longer day in thos ejobs, but the teaching takes a lot of preparation is quite tiring and can be quite stressful with certain pupils and silly parents

and its the kids who need the break as well
they are wrecked at the moment with the heat

Many jobs take a lot of prep outside working hours, meetings (boards, management, clients), presentations etc. Taking work home with you is nothing unique to teachers.

Milltown Row2

Dog with a bone here, another hole in his argument, either jealous of the holidays, had a bad experience with a teacher, or school, was ditched by a teacher... or currently married to one who's laughing her head off at the fact that shes off for 2 months!
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

tonto1888

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 23, 2017, 06:36:27 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 22, 2017, 03:30:54 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 22, 2017, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 22, 2017, 12:13:33 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 22, 2017, 11:17:40 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 22, 2017, 10:01:30 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 22, 2017, 06:40:44 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 17, 2017, 12:04:38 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 17, 2017, 10:40:20 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 17, 2017, 09:10:28 AM
Ha so says Bomber who was never a teacher!!

The legality of sending a child to school with a recording device, is breaking the law right there,

So only those who have 3/4 months annual leave in the year are entitled to comment on whether it is justified or not?

You'd soon find the real reason people take a career in teaching up if the annual leave entitlements were brought in line with other public sector workers.

Says the person who doesn't understand the idea of 'paid leave' or how teachers are paid.

Teachers are very well paid for their work. Their problem is that their place of employment only opens for 195 days per year.  So, their pay is limited.  They do not have the benefit of being able to work on the 42 days that others in full time employment can avail of.

They are only paid for working 195 days each year plus 28 days paid leave rather than the maximum 237 days ((53x5) - 28) that would be the norm for all other workers in full time employment who also receive 28 days paid leave. 

Up until the 1980s, teachers did not receive payment outside the school year.  Then a government decision was taken that payment should be spread over 12 months and not 10 months to ease and smooth the cash flow in the public sector purse.  This is now the norm for all public sector employees employed for less than 237 days.  So, at that time, teachers accepted a reduction in their monthly salaries because they were still paid for their work but payment was spread over the whole year.

Nowadays, under legislation for all employees, teachers get 28 days of holiday pay like all other public sector employees but this is subsumed into school closures. There was no increase in salary to take account of this change. Only 4 years ago, teachers received this right to the 28 days of paid holiday like every other worker.  A teacher ill for a period that does end before the summer break is entitled like every other worker to take all lost holidays before returning to work but if the period off is followed by the summer break then it is assumed that lost holidays are taken during the summer break.

However, teachers on temporary contracts, where they are paid the daily rate, remain without the right to holiday pay.  They are effectively on a form of zero hours contracts.  They earn the same as their permanent and temporary one year contracted colleagues over the year but are paid more per month, in any month without school closures, because they receive the daily rate = salary/195 rather than having it spread over the whole year.  They are only paid on the days they work and are unemployed outside the 195 days the school is open.

In short, teachers receive no more paid holidays than any other public sector employee, they are just very well paid on the 195 days they work and the statutory 28 days of paid holiday enjoyed by all.

Semantics.

They get paid throughout the year and are off work for 3/4 months of it.

Overpaid and underworked. There's never a shortage of teachers because people get into teaching for the holidays, take the holiday package away and bring it in line with other public sector areas and the amount of people pursuing teaching as a career would drop dramatically.

It then might stop teachers complaining about a lack of hours.

I think you meant underpaid and overworked. If you know nothing about a topic bomber you really shouldn't comment on it. As for people go into teaching for the holidays, wrong again. I never met a teacher who did that. In fact, I know quite a few, including myself, who got out of teaching despite the holidays

No I didn't. I've worked and lived with teachers so I do have my own insights to what they do. You said you never knew a teacher got it in for the holidays. Brilliant, so there should be no objection if teachers were put to working during the school breaks with community based projects.

Teachers live in a bubble. They are overpaid and underworked.

Are you a teacher or married to one?

So you have no first hand experience of teaching do you? Why would they do community based projects? Although I know quite a few who do that kind of work during holidays, running summer camps etc, but why would they? Would you put a doctor onto community based projects during thir time off? A binman? A solicitor? So why a teacher
I will say it again, with first hand experience, unlike you. Teachers are overworked and underpaid

Why would they do community based projects? Because for one quarter of the working year they do nothing. Teachers are like unionists in that they feel a sense of entitlement to perks that others don't have and never will

It's quite simple really. If the very generous holidays that teachers get are not a reason or incentive for people pursuing that career then it shouldn't be a problem scrapping that entitlement and bringing it in line with other, already generous, public sector employment.

Teachers are very defensive about their  3 months holidays. They feel a sense of entitlement to them. Why do they feel they deserve them in contrast with other workers?

you do not have a clue what you are talking about and quite clearly now nothing about the working lives of teachers. Cheerio

I would counter that teachers would not know anything about a working life. They have more in common with benefits recipients than the working man.

youd be wrong

Il Bomber Destro

Quote from: tonto1888 on June 23, 2017, 09:47:33 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 23, 2017, 06:36:27 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 22, 2017, 03:30:54 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 22, 2017, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 22, 2017, 12:13:33 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 22, 2017, 11:17:40 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 22, 2017, 10:01:30 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 22, 2017, 06:40:44 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 17, 2017, 12:04:38 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 17, 2017, 10:40:20 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 17, 2017, 09:10:28 AM
Ha so says Bomber who was never a teacher!!

The legality of sending a child to school with a recording device, is breaking the law right there,

So only those who have 3/4 months annual leave in the year are entitled to comment on whether it is justified or not?

You'd soon find the real reason people take a career in teaching up if the annual leave entitlements were brought in line with other public sector workers.

Says the person who doesn't understand the idea of 'paid leave' or how teachers are paid.

Teachers are very well paid for their work. Their problem is that their place of employment only opens for 195 days per year.  So, their pay is limited.  They do not have the benefit of being able to work on the 42 days that others in full time employment can avail of.

They are only paid for working 195 days each year plus 28 days paid leave rather than the maximum 237 days ((53x5) - 28) that would be the norm for all other workers in full time employment who also receive 28 days paid leave. 

Up until the 1980s, teachers did not receive payment outside the school year.  Then a government decision was taken that payment should be spread over 12 months and not 10 months to ease and smooth the cash flow in the public sector purse.  This is now the norm for all public sector employees employed for less than 237 days.  So, at that time, teachers accepted a reduction in their monthly salaries because they were still paid for their work but payment was spread over the whole year.

Nowadays, under legislation for all employees, teachers get 28 days of holiday pay like all other public sector employees but this is subsumed into school closures. There was no increase in salary to take account of this change. Only 4 years ago, teachers received this right to the 28 days of paid holiday like every other worker.  A teacher ill for a period that does end before the summer break is entitled like every other worker to take all lost holidays before returning to work but if the period off is followed by the summer break then it is assumed that lost holidays are taken during the summer break.

However, teachers on temporary contracts, where they are paid the daily rate, remain without the right to holiday pay.  They are effectively on a form of zero hours contracts.  They earn the same as their permanent and temporary one year contracted colleagues over the year but are paid more per month, in any month without school closures, because they receive the daily rate = salary/195 rather than having it spread over the whole year.  They are only paid on the days they work and are unemployed outside the 195 days the school is open.

In short, teachers receive no more paid holidays than any other public sector employee, they are just very well paid on the 195 days they work and the statutory 28 days of paid holiday enjoyed by all.

Semantics.

They get paid throughout the year and are off work for 3/4 months of it.

Overpaid and underworked. There's never a shortage of teachers because people get into teaching for the holidays, take the holiday package away and bring it in line with other public sector areas and the amount of people pursuing teaching as a career would drop dramatically.

It then might stop teachers complaining about a lack of hours.

I think you meant underpaid and overworked. If you know nothing about a topic bomber you really shouldn't comment on it. As for people go into teaching for the holidays, wrong again. I never met a teacher who did that. In fact, I know quite a few, including myself, who got out of teaching despite the holidays

No I didn't. I've worked and lived with teachers so I do have my own insights to what they do. You said you never knew a teacher got it in for the holidays. Brilliant, so there should be no objection if teachers were put to working during the school breaks with community based projects.

Teachers live in a bubble. They are overpaid and underworked.

Are you a teacher or married to one?

So you have no first hand experience of teaching do you? Why would they do community based projects? Although I know quite a few who do that kind of work during holidays, running summer camps etc, but why would they? Would you put a doctor onto community based projects during thir time off? A binman? A solicitor? So why a teacher
I will say it again, with first hand experience, unlike you. Teachers are overworked and underpaid

Why would they do community based projects? Because for one quarter of the working year they do nothing. Teachers are like unionists in that they feel a sense of entitlement to perks that others don't have and never will

It's quite simple really. If the very generous holidays that teachers get are not a reason or incentive for people pursuing that career then it shouldn't be a problem scrapping that entitlement and bringing it in line with other, already generous, public sector employment.

Teachers are very defensive about their  3 months holidays. They feel a sense of entitlement to them. Why do they feel they deserve them in contrast with other workers?

you do not have a clue what you are talking about and quite clearly now nothing about the working lives of teachers. Cheerio

I would counter that teachers would not know anything about a working life. They have more in common with benefits recipients than the working man.

youd be wrong

Yes they do.

They don't work June*, July, August, half of December, Easter and Halloween.

As I said teachers are very much like unionists.

FermGael

The Bomber is spot on.
Teaching is an easy number.
Look at the holidays . Sure young ones now a days are great children and they are always well behaved.
No bother out of them at all..............

Quote

Teachers at Enniskillen Royal Grammar School (ERGS) are being balloted by the NASUWT union for industrial action after it claims videos were taken up the skirts of two teachers by a male pupil in 2015.

A letter from the chair of ERGS's board of governors, seen by the BBC, was sent to teaching staff in early June. It said that, in November 2016 "a memory stick containing inappropriate images" was found in the school and it emerged that the images had been taken by a pupil in May and June 2015 – before the amalgamation of Portora Royal School and Collegiate Grammar School.

The PSNI investigated and two female teachers were informed about the images.

The pupil was initially suspended for five days and later for 12 further days, the BBC reported.

The case went to the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) but it decided not to prosecute the pupil because the activities reported to them by police as having been committed did not constitute an offence in criminal law. The PPS also said that the women teachers involved "were not observed doing a private act and therefore the evidential test in respect of the offence of voyeurism" was not met.

The letter to ERGS staff said that the governors decided not to expel the pupil after taking legal advice.

The school also said that it had carried out a risk assessment and drawn up safety and support plans for both the boy and the two female teachers.

Two teaching unions have since written to ERGS to voice their concern about the developments.

The Association of Teachers and Lecturers (ATL) said they were concerned there may be other victims "as yet unidentified" captured on video on the same memory stick and claimed that the school should "revisit the question of whether to exclude the pupil concerned."

The NASUWT letter alleges that the governors were not sufficiently open with staff about the situation and said that the women involved were "sexually exploited and feel objectified" as "it remains a fact that videos were taken up the skirts" of the teachers.

The NASUWT are balloting their 48 members in the school on whether to refuse to teach the pupil involved.

A spokesperson from ERGS told the BBC: "Given the complex and sensitive nature of this issue for all concerned, we are disappointed that this is being dealt with in the media.
"It is not appropriate for the school to comment further."
Wanted.  Forwards to take frees.
Not fussy.  Any sort of ability will be considered

tonto1888

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 23, 2017, 11:17:38 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 23, 2017, 09:47:33 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 23, 2017, 06:36:27 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 22, 2017, 03:30:54 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 22, 2017, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 22, 2017, 12:13:33 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 22, 2017, 11:17:40 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 22, 2017, 10:01:30 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 22, 2017, 06:40:44 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 17, 2017, 12:04:38 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 17, 2017, 10:40:20 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 17, 2017, 09:10:28 AM
Ha so says Bomber who was never a teacher!!

The legality of sending a child to school with a recording device, is breaking the law right there,

So only those who have 3/4 months annual leave in the year are entitled to comment on whether it is justified or not?

You'd soon find the real reason people take a career in teaching up if the annual leave entitlements were brought in line with other public sector workers.

Says the person who doesn't understand the idea of 'paid leave' or how teachers are paid.

Teachers are very well paid for their work. Their problem is that their place of employment only opens for 195 days per year.  So, their pay is limited.  They do not have the benefit of being able to work on the 42 days that others in full time employment can avail of.

They are only paid for working 195 days each year plus 28 days paid leave rather than the maximum 237 days ((53x5) - 28) that would be the norm for all other workers in full time employment who also receive 28 days paid leave. 

Up until the 1980s, teachers did not receive payment outside the school year.  Then a government decision was taken that payment should be spread over 12 months and not 10 months to ease and smooth the cash flow in the public sector purse.  This is now the norm for all public sector employees employed for less than 237 days.  So, at that time, teachers accepted a reduction in their monthly salaries because they were still paid for their work but payment was spread over the whole year.

Nowadays, under legislation for all employees, teachers get 28 days of holiday pay like all other public sector employees but this is subsumed into school closures. There was no increase in salary to take account of this change. Only 4 years ago, teachers received this right to the 28 days of paid holiday like every other worker.  A teacher ill for a period that does end before the summer break is entitled like every other worker to take all lost holidays before returning to work but if the period off is followed by the summer break then it is assumed that lost holidays are taken during the summer break.

However, teachers on temporary contracts, where they are paid the daily rate, remain without the right to holiday pay.  They are effectively on a form of zero hours contracts.  They earn the same as their permanent and temporary one year contracted colleagues over the year but are paid more per month, in any month without school closures, because they receive the daily rate = salary/195 rather than having it spread over the whole year.  They are only paid on the days they work and are unemployed outside the 195 days the school is open.

In short, teachers receive no more paid holidays than any other public sector employee, they are just very well paid on the 195 days they work and the statutory 28 days of paid holiday enjoyed by all.

Semantics.

They get paid throughout the year and are off work for 3/4 months of it.

Overpaid and underworked. There's never a shortage of teachers because people get into teaching for the holidays, take the holiday package away and bring it in line with other public sector areas and the amount of people pursuing teaching as a career would drop dramatically.

It then might stop teachers complaining about a lack of hours.

I think you meant underpaid and overworked. If you know nothing about a topic bomber you really shouldn't comment on it. As for people go into teaching for the holidays, wrong again. I never met a teacher who did that. In fact, I know quite a few, including myself, who got out of teaching despite the holidays

No I didn't. I've worked and lived with teachers so I do have my own insights to what they do. You said you never knew a teacher got it in for the holidays. Brilliant, so there should be no objection if teachers were put to working during the school breaks with community based projects.

Teachers live in a bubble. They are overpaid and underworked.

Are you a teacher or married to one?

So you have no first hand experience of teaching do you? Why would they do community based projects? Although I know quite a few who do that kind of work during holidays, running summer camps etc, but why would they? Would you put a doctor onto community based projects during thir time off? A binman? A solicitor? So why a teacher
I will say it again, with first hand experience, unlike you. Teachers are overworked and underpaid

Why would they do community based projects? Because for one quarter of the working year they do nothing. Teachers are like unionists in that they feel a sense of entitlement to perks that others don't have and never will

It's quite simple really. If the very generous holidays that teachers get are not a reason or incentive for people pursuing that career then it shouldn't be a problem scrapping that entitlement and bringing it in line with other, already generous, public sector employment.

Teachers are very defensive about their  3 months holidays. They feel a sense of entitlement to them. Why do they feel they deserve them in contrast with other workers?

you do not have a clue what you are talking about and quite clearly now nothing about the working lives of teachers. Cheerio

I would counter that teachers would not know anything about a working life. They have more in common with benefits recipients than the working man.

youd be wrong

Yes they do.

They don't work June*, July, August, half of December, Easter and Halloween.

As I said teachers are very much like unionists.

Like I said before, youre full of it

JimStynes

Bomber, just to rub it in a bit more, I finish at 2 every Friday.   8)

Il Bomber Destro

Quote from: tonto1888 on June 23, 2017, 02:20:37 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 23, 2017, 11:17:38 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 23, 2017, 09:47:33 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 23, 2017, 06:36:27 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 22, 2017, 03:30:54 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 22, 2017, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 22, 2017, 12:13:33 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 22, 2017, 11:17:40 AM
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Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 22, 2017, 06:40:44 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 17, 2017, 12:04:38 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 17, 2017, 10:40:20 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 17, 2017, 09:10:28 AM
Ha so says Bomber who was never a teacher!!

The legality of sending a child to school with a recording device, is breaking the law right there,

So only those who have 3/4 months annual leave in the year are entitled to comment on whether it is justified or not?

You'd soon find the real reason people take a career in teaching up if the annual leave entitlements were brought in line with other public sector workers.

Says the person who doesn't understand the idea of 'paid leave' or how teachers are paid.

Teachers are very well paid for their work. Their problem is that their place of employment only opens for 195 days per year.  So, their pay is limited.  They do not have the benefit of being able to work on the 42 days that others in full time employment can avail of.

They are only paid for working 195 days each year plus 28 days paid leave rather than the maximum 237 days ((53x5) - 28) that would be the norm for all other workers in full time employment who also receive 28 days paid leave. 

Up until the 1980s, teachers did not receive payment outside the school year.  Then a government decision was taken that payment should be spread over 12 months and not 10 months to ease and smooth the cash flow in the public sector purse.  This is now the norm for all public sector employees employed for less than 237 days.  So, at that time, teachers accepted a reduction in their monthly salaries because they were still paid for their work but payment was spread over the whole year.

Nowadays, under legislation for all employees, teachers get 28 days of holiday pay like all other public sector employees but this is subsumed into school closures. There was no increase in salary to take account of this change. Only 4 years ago, teachers received this right to the 28 days of paid holiday like every other worker.  A teacher ill for a period that does end before the summer break is entitled like every other worker to take all lost holidays before returning to work but if the period off is followed by the summer break then it is assumed that lost holidays are taken during the summer break.

However, teachers on temporary contracts, where they are paid the daily rate, remain without the right to holiday pay.  They are effectively on a form of zero hours contracts.  They earn the same as their permanent and temporary one year contracted colleagues over the year but are paid more per month, in any month without school closures, because they receive the daily rate = salary/195 rather than having it spread over the whole year.  They are only paid on the days they work and are unemployed outside the 195 days the school is open.

In short, teachers receive no more paid holidays than any other public sector employee, they are just very well paid on the 195 days they work and the statutory 28 days of paid holiday enjoyed by all.

Semantics.

They get paid throughout the year and are off work for 3/4 months of it.

Overpaid and underworked. There's never a shortage of teachers because people get into teaching for the holidays, take the holiday package away and bring it in line with other public sector areas and the amount of people pursuing teaching as a career would drop dramatically.

It then might stop teachers complaining about a lack of hours.

I think you meant underpaid and overworked. If you know nothing about a topic bomber you really shouldn't comment on it. As for people go into teaching for the holidays, wrong again. I never met a teacher who did that. In fact, I know quite a few, including myself, who got out of teaching despite the holidays

No I didn't. I've worked and lived with teachers so I do have my own insights to what they do. You said you never knew a teacher got it in for the holidays. Brilliant, so there should be no objection if teachers were put to working during the school breaks with community based projects.

Teachers live in a bubble. They are overpaid and underworked.

Are you a teacher or married to one?

So you have no first hand experience of teaching do you? Why would they do community based projects? Although I know quite a few who do that kind of work during holidays, running summer camps etc, but why would they? Would you put a doctor onto community based projects during thir time off? A binman? A solicitor? So why a teacher
I will say it again, with first hand experience, unlike you. Teachers are overworked and underpaid

Why would they do community based projects? Because for one quarter of the working year they do nothing. Teachers are like unionists in that they feel a sense of entitlement to perks that others don't have and never will

It's quite simple really. If the very generous holidays that teachers get are not a reason or incentive for people pursuing that career then it shouldn't be a problem scrapping that entitlement and bringing it in line with other, already generous, public sector employment.

Teachers are very defensive about their  3 months holidays. They feel a sense of entitlement to them. Why do they feel they deserve them in contrast with other workers?

you do not have a clue what you are talking about and quite clearly now nothing about the working lives of teachers. Cheerio

I would counter that teachers would not know anything about a working life. They have more in common with benefits recipients than the working man.

youd be wrong

Yes they do.

They don't work June*, July, August, half of December, Easter and Halloween.

As I said teachers are very much like unionists.

Like I said before, youre full of it

You're full of bluster. I deal in facts.

tonto1888

Bomber, what facts do you deal in? You know nothing about being a teacher. That's the fact

Il Bomber Destro

Quote from: tonto1888 on June 23, 2017, 07:24:10 PM
Bomber, what facts do you deal in? You know nothing about being a teacher. That's the fact

The facts that teachers don't work for a quarter of the year. The fact that teachers are not unique in taking their work home. The fact that teachers enjoy a shorter working week than most.

ONeill

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 23, 2017, 07:33:33 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 23, 2017, 07:24:10 PM
Bomber, what facts do you deal in? You know nothing about being a teacher. That's the fact

The facts that teachers don't work for a quarter of the year. The fact that teachers are not unique in taking their work home. The fact that teachers enjoy a shorter working week than most.

A quarter is conservative. Most teachers don't work really at all apart from a couple of weeks in April when they really step it up. Pure spongers and waste of tax-payers' money. And sure they youtube everything. How does Shakespeare show ambition in Macbeth - here, watch this youtube video. Fcukers couldn't dig a hole.
I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames.

Tony Baloney

Quote from: ONeill on June 23, 2017, 07:41:44 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 23, 2017, 07:33:33 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 23, 2017, 07:24:10 PM
Bomber, what facts do you deal in? You know nothing about being a teacher. That's the fact

The facts that teachers don't work for a quarter of the year. The fact that teachers are not unique in taking their work home. The fact that teachers enjoy a shorter working week than most.

A quarter is conservative. Most teachers don't work really at all apart from a couple of weeks in April when they really step it up. Pure spongers and waste of tax-payers' money. And sure they youtube everything. How does Shakespeare show ambition in Macbeth - here, watch this youtube video. Fcukers couldn't dig a hole.
Now we're getting to the facts.

Tony Baloney

Teachers with a degree in education (and primary teachers) are as thick as pig shit compared to PGCE teachers. Discuss.

A fella at the wife's school was told by someone at a grammar school they wouldn't even consider him for a job as he was a generalist from a teaching college and not a specialist with a primary degree.