Roscommon v Armagh

Started by illdecide, July 02, 2018, 10:06:15 AM

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Imposerous



Having McParland twice may waste a space  :o

[/quote]

I meant McParland and McPartland of course ;)

Solo_run

#346
Quote from: Syferus on July 10, 2018, 04:12:19 PM
I really can't understand why anyone would want to remove McGeeney after promotion and nearly getting to back-to-back AIQFs. Armagh are firmly in the top ten now with a young panel.

I get it but at the same time I do not see the point in wanting him out. Things have not gone right for him in the years since he took over and he has had to do some hard work to find players that were willing to make the effort.

It is ridiculous that some people want him out because of players not making themselves available to the county team. Is he demanding too much from the players? Possibly. But no doubt he has a plan, he has gone to the players with the plan and outlined what is expected of them. Some players have decided that the vision he has is not for them for a number of reasons and that is fine. He cannot be blamed for losing players who do not have the desire to commit. We all know that if the players do not commit to the team we are going to linger in mediocrity for the foreseeable years. However, some player have bought in to his vision and whether there has been progress or not is open to debate. Like Kildare, Armagh have not beaten anyone worth mentioning other than Kildare last year.

There are sections that think he fails to get it right tactically. Others see him as a dictator that says we either do it his way or you are off the panel. On Saturday I was watching the game and found Armagh's defending to be poor. From what I have seen, if Armagh can up the intensity in defending we would be a very hard team to beat next year.

seafoid

Quote from: Syferus on July 10, 2018, 04:12:19 PM
I really can't understand why anyone would want to remove McGeeney after promotion and nearly getting to back-to-back AIQFs. Armagh are firmly in the top ten now with a young panel.
He has a dreadful record in Ulster . Armagh should not have been in D3 in the first place. After 5 years the achievements are not very flĂșirseach either
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

tonto1888

Quote from: Tim's Hero on July 10, 2018, 09:32:51 AM
Gary McCooyey
Sean Connell
Aidan Nugent
Rian O'Neill
Ciaran Higgins (inj for 2 seasons)
Ben Crealy
Nugent (Maghery)
Barry McCambridge
Young lad plays 6 for Sarsfields

List goes on !! Lot of people missing the point , substantial number of lads not there because of management .

Ben Crealy injured. Not missing because of management

tonto1888

Quote from: Tim's Hero on July 10, 2018, 10:37:57 AM
Only adding to last Saturdays squad , add in Kernan's , Carragher from Cross , Andy Mallon , Finn Mo , all early 30's who still featuring with their clubs . Their experience would have made all the difference coming off bench for last 15 . Mayo team has several over 30's still playing out of their skin !!

Let's see. I'm 38. Finnian is 3 years yo Beer than me. Mallon is he same age I th No. So not early 30s

tonto1888

Quote from: yellowcard on July 10, 2018, 09:23:06 AM
Caolan Rafferty
Ethan Rafferty
James Morgan
Declan McKenna
Oisin O'Neill
Ciaran O'Hanlon
Stefan Campbell
Jamie Clarke

At least 6 of those players should be in the starting 15 for Armagh and would significantly strengthen the side so McGeeney is playing with a weakened hand. There may be others also that I have excluded but can't think of. Given the players that he is missing I think he done as well as could be expected as any manager this season. The question is why are those players not playing for the county team?

To the best of my knowledge all players bar Morgan, McKenna, Campbell and O'Neill are unavailable due to injury or are travelling abroad. McKenna I don't understand, he has been up among the best club players in the county consistently for the last 4/5 years but has never really had a decent chance at county level. Morgan too is a great defender at club level but has never consistently produced at county level whilst Campbell after one brilliant year a few years back when he was arguably one of the top forwards in Ireland, appears to have gone backwards since then largely due to lack of committment. O'Neill is still young and it is still unclear if he will be a county level footballer but he certainly has the potential to do so. I don't know the exact reason why these players have not committed but I reckon that McGeeney reckons they have been influenced by people surrounding them. He might not be far wrong. That said, it is their right to choose not to play county football if they so wish but the county team is weaker without them.

   

I disagree regarding Morgan. Think he was our best defender last year. Also wasn't he due to come back after his travels but got injured?

tonto1888

Quote from: Syferus on July 10, 2018, 04:12:19 PM
I really can't understand why anyone would want to remove McGeeney after promotion and nearly getting to back-to-back AIQFs. Armagh are firmly in the top ten now with a young panel.

I'm not sure we are top ten to be honest. We would be there or there abouts. His record in Ulster is awful and is one reason why people want him out. The players who are unavailable are another reason, a ridiculous one I reckon tho.

tonto1888

Quote from: Imposerous on July 10, 2018, 03:30:16 PM
Quote from: our_fella on July 10, 2018, 11:43:44 AM
Hughes
Hughes McKay Morgan
McCabe Donaghy Sheilds
Vernon Sheidan
Forker Grugan Grimley
Clarke Murnin Campbell

ONE CAN DREAM

Subs
E.Rafferty
Oneill
Ohanlon
Burns
Rowland
McQuillan
Mackin
Dyas

Based on the players that could reasonably be expected to be available a match day 26 (with a view to a fresh broom) could look something like this:

          Hughes
Morgan  McKay  Burns
McIlroy  Connell Shields
Rafferty / Grimley
O O'Neill  Grugan  Forker
McParland  Murnin  Campbell

Subs:
McParland
R O'Neill
J Duffy
McQuillan
Owens
McKenna
Rowland
McCabe
McShane
Hall
Either a Vernon / Donaghy

There are a number of other notable absentees from this list, so there is def a talent pool of at lest 30 guys across the county who could make us a very competitive outfit.

I'd have Paul Hughes starting. And as tough as it would be on P Burns, he loses his place to Morgan. A fit Sheridan starts in midfield also

Syferus

Quote from: tonto1888 on July 10, 2018, 06:56:05 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 10, 2018, 04:12:19 PM
I really can't understand why anyone would want to remove McGeeney after promotion and nearly getting to back-to-back AIQFs. Armagh are firmly in the top ten now with a young panel.

I'm not sure we are top ten to be honest. We would be there or there abouts. His record in Ulster is awful and is one reason why people want him out. The players who are unavailable are another reason, a ridiculous one I reckon tho.

Super 8 + Mayo + Armagh. Maybe Cavan might give you a run but from experience a team as good at attacking as Armagh are won't be losing much to the 2018 version of Cavan.

Rufus T Firefly

Quote from: Tim's Hero on July 10, 2018, 04:08:57 PM
Rufus now you are trying to put words in my mouth , I do not think over 30's represent the way forward , but I will state again, the experience some of those players had to offer might have got Armagh over the line on Saturday past , maximum use of resources.

No, but if they had played as you wished, then right now they would have finished the season as part of our squad. Would you have kept them on as each player accumulates another year? If you do not, then you are removing a sizeable chunk of the squad which will necessitate rebuilding. If you keep them on, then you are relying on them again for next year, as they advance to their late thirties.

All hypothetical of course, but simply designed to highlight the nonsense of your thinking. 

regal

I'd presume mcgeeney's criticism is directed at crossmaglen and the decision of the the O'Neill brothers not to play for Armagh this year. I'd imagine his criticism is directed at those giving advice to them. They are 2 very talented footballers who would have got Armagh over the line against both fermanagh / Roscommon. They clearly have a decision to make if mcgeeney stays as manager next year. It would be a complete and utter waste of talent if they play only for cross next year. However, nobody should have to beg them to come and play for Armagh

If we have most of our better players back we should be challenging for division 1 next year. Players that I feel are good enough that we could call upon next year that weren't involved against Roscommon are:

- mckay, heffron, Hughes, Morgan, Higgins, ohanlon
- O.O'Neill, crealey, e.rafferty
- Campbell, R.O'Neill, Clarke, c.rafferty, m.mckenna

I don't know the inns and outs of the set up but perhaps mcgeeney could look at improving his back room set by replacing Hollywood / mckeever?


Syferus

Quote from: regal on July 10, 2018, 11:23:51 PM
I'd presume mcgeeney's criticism is directed at crossmaglen and the decision of the the O'Neill brothers not to play for Armagh this year. I'd imagine his criticism is directed at those giving advice to them. They are 2 very talented footballers who would have got Armagh over the line against both fermanagh / Roscommon. They clearly have a decision to make if mcgeeney stays as manager next year. It would be a complete and utter waste of talent if they play only for cross next year. However, nobody should have to beg them to come and play for Armagh

If we have most of our better players back we should be challenging for division 1 next year. Players that I feel are good enough that we could call upon next year that weren't involved against Roscommon are:

- mckay, heffron, Hughes, Morgan, Higgins, ohanlon
- O.O'Neill, crealey, e.rafferty
- Campbell, R.O'Neill, Clarke, c.rafferty, m.mckenna

I don't know the inns and outs of the set up but perhaps mcgeeney could look at improving his back room set by replacing Hollywood / mckeever?

Armagh were a lot more than two players off winning on Saturday.

Rufus T Firefly

Quote from: Syferus on July 10, 2018, 11:40:06 PM
Armagh were a lot more than two players off winning on Saturday.

I would agree with that.

yellowcard

Quote from: regal on July 10, 2018, 11:23:51 PM
I'd presume mcgeeney's criticism is directed at crossmaglen and the decision of the the O'Neill brothers not to play for Armagh this year. I'd imagine his criticism is directed at those giving advice to them. They are 2 very talented footballers who would have got Armagh over the line against both fermanagh / Roscommon. They clearly have a decision to make if mcgeeney stays as manager next year. It would be a complete and utter waste of talent if they play only for cross next year. However, nobody should have to beg them to come and play for Armagh

If we have most of our better players back we should be challenging for division 1 next year. Players that I feel are good enough that we could call upon next year that weren't involved against Roscommon are:

- mckay, heffron, Hughes, Morgan, Higgins, ohanlon
- O.O'Neill, crealey, e.rafferty
- Campbell, R.O'Neill, Clarke, c.rafferty, m.mckenna

I don't know the inns and outs of the set up but perhaps mcgeeney could look at improving his back room set by replacing Hollywood / mckeever?

Rian O'Neill is a rookie who has yet to pull on a senior county jersey, whilst Oisin left behind as many questions as answers after his debut season in a county jersey last year. They could potentially be good players but they have plenty to prove before they can be considered match winners.

Canpbell and Clarke on the other hand are proven performers at county level and were huge misses.


seafoid

Quote from: regal on July 10, 2018, 11:23:51 PM
I'd presume mcgeeney's criticism is directed at crossmaglen and the decision of the the O'Neill brothers not to play for Armagh this year. I'd imagine his criticism is directed at those giving advice to them. They are 2 very talented footballers who would have got Armagh over the line against both fermanagh / Roscommon. They clearly have a decision to make if mcgeeney stays as manager next year. It would be a complete and utter waste of talent if they play only for cross next year. However, nobody should have to beg them to come and play for Armagh

If we have most of our better players back we should be challenging for division 1 next year. Players that I feel are good enough that we could call upon next year that weren't involved against Roscommon are:

- mckay, heffron, Hughes, Morgan, Higgins, ohanlon
- O.O'Neill, crealey, e.rafferty
- Campbell, R.O'Neill, Clarke, c.rafferty, m.mckenna

I don't know the inns and outs of the set up but perhaps mcgeeney could look at improving his back room set by replacing Hollywood / mckeever?
Could Armagh not organise a match between the McGeeney loyalists and the exiles to see which team is better ?
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU