Armagh Club football & hurling

[corn02]

I don't know the ins and outs but I do know that they don't agree with them.  it doesn't seem to be affecting their development either not being involved, so why should they change the policy.

I suppose that is fair enough of Gregory alright. But the thing that annoys me is that these are not development squads, they are Armagh development squads. Surely pulling players out will be a loss to Armagh.

[full back]

I don't know the ins and outs but I do know that they don't agree with them.  it doesn't seem to be affecting their development either not being involved, so why should they change the policy.

I suppose that is fair enough of Gregory alright. But the thing that annoys me is that these are not development squads, they are Armagh development squads. Surely pulling players out will be a loss to Armagh.

It hasnt had much effect on the quality Cross provide to Armagh

[brokencrossbar1]

Benny, under age wins are grand and all that, but I am talking in terms of development as players for the real thing which is senior football.  Cross got to a minor final with a team with a core of players who were U16.  They were well beaten by yourselves and I was the first to congratulate the Harps for that, but no harm to you the Harps hardly have a great record of bringing young lads through from minor to senior.  For all the great underage teams they have produced in the last 10 years, they have failed miserably to bring it onto the senior level yet.  The same can be said for the Ogs.  In the same period, Cross have won 2 maybe 3 minor championships and maybe 2 u 21 championships. Out of those teams they have brought through a group of players who are playing in an  senior Ulster Final next week.  Of course the old heads are still the mainstays, but can you honestly say that when they go, which will be gradual, that Cross will all of a sudden stop winning?  We both know the answer to that.  

Underage championships are great, but it is how you develop players and coach them to bring out the best in them which is more important.  Cross underage training system has been working for the last 20 years.  If the Development squads are a better option than fine.  I personally have seen the Cross lad coached from they are 8 and they are trained at that age like we were trained as seniors so i think they will be ok

[corn02]

I don't know the ins and outs but I do know that they don't agree with them.  it doesn't seem to be affecting their development either not being involved, so why should they change the policy.

I suppose that is fair enough of Gregory alright. But the thing that annoys me is that these are not development squads, they are Armagh development squads. Surely pulling players out will be a loss to Armagh.

It hasnt had much effect on the quality Cross provide to Armagh

But that is exactly my point.I am assuming there are plenty of underage  Cross players good enough for these squads. Without them on board, the teams will be weaker. You should have the same boys are Armagh teams from underage right up like in Tyrone, it is not just about the seniors.

[crossfire]

The ulster club final between Cross and ballinderry is fixed for Sunday 30th Nov in Enniskillen at 3.45 which means that the second half will have to be played under lights.

What a ridiculous decision by the "caring" ulster council

[thebandit]

BC - I can understand the 'If its not broke dont fix it' attitude, but is there not something to be learned from exposing the underage players to external influences. I know Tim is against the development squads, but a good few people in Cross seem to think they would be a good idea.

Cross underage training system has been working for the last 20 years.

There can be very little doubt about that, but has football not changed somewhat in the intervening period? I know Cross have the results to back up any argument, but I do think the development squads are a fantastic idea.

[brokencrossbar1]

I don't know what goes on at the Development squads so I cannot comment on whether they would be good or bad.  What I do know is that there is a regular flow of young players form the underage squads onto the senior squad.  These players are improving the squad every year.  There are now 30 lads who can play senior championship on the squad.  When I was playing you could not say that.  The likes of Titch and Paul McKeown will develop into serious county players in the next 2-3 years and they did no need for development squads.  Surely if they are so good other clubs wouldn't want to see Cross players at them as there are enough of them graduating to seniors at the minute

[under the bar]

It seems Armagh's new hurling manager is a St John's man from Antrim!

[Hank Everlast]

ARMAGH FOOTBALLERS BEGIN WITH WEXFORD TEST IN NFL

Armagh will commence their 2009 NFL Division Two campaign with an away game against All-Ireland quarter-final conquerors, Wexford, on Sunday 1st February.

Next up are two home games, under floodlights at the Athletic Grounds, Armagh, against Laois (Saturday 14th February) and Monaghan (Saturday 7th March).

Those first three matches will play a key role in determining whether Peter McDonnell's men can garner promotion out of Division Two, as thereafter Armagh has only one home fixture out of their remaining four matches.

They must travel to, defeated Ulster finalists, Fermanagh (Sunday 15th March) and Kieran McGeeney/Paul Grimley managed Kildare (Sunday 22nd March) before they entertain Meath at Floodlit Athletic Grounds on Saturday 28th March.

They make to long journey to the banks of the Lee to play Cork in their final group game on Sunday 12th April.

ARMAGH'S NFL FIXTURES – 2009

Sunday 1 February
Wexford v Armagh (2.30)

Saturday 14 February
Armagh v Laois (7.30)

Saturday 7 March
Armagh v Monaghan (7.30)

Sunday 15 March
Fermanagh v Armagh (2.30)

Sunday 22 March
Kildare v Armagh (2.30)

Saturday 28 March
Armagh v Meath (7.30)

Sunday 12 April
Cork v Armagh (2.30)

[winsamsoon]

Concerning the debate about development squads. I have one question BC if the Cross hadn't been so successful at senior level over the last 15 years do you think they would be encouraging young players from going to the development county squads?? Now i know you don't speak for  the current cross  managersBC but i would generally like to hear your views on this.  I think there has been a gradual battle between Cross and the county  becoming increasingly visible over the past few years. I think there is a touch of arrogance on the side of the Cross, because of there success i feel they sometimes think they can do whatever they want and the issue at hand is a further example. It seems they are saying to the young lads don't go to these county things stay at Cross and we will look after you because we are infact better than the county. Now this is great if that is the case but in the long run i think it will pose a few problems for the Cross. My club would be renowned for being arrogant and i will accept that (so i don' want to make this into a clans versus the rest of the county debate) But this has backfired on us. I would just be interested to hear the rest of the opinions on the subject.

[bennydorano]

I don't know what goes on at the Development squads so I cannot comment on whether they would be good or bad.  What I do know is that there is a regular flow of young players form the underage squads onto the senior squad.  These players are improving the squad every year.  There are now 30 lads who can play senior championship on the squad.  When I was playing you could not say that.  The likes of Titch and Paul McKeown will develop into serious county players in the next 2-3 years and they did no need for development squads.  Surely if they are so good other clubs wouldn't want to see Cross players at them as there are enough of them graduating to seniors at the minute

There's a good chance that this may sound ridculous but I firmly believe a Cross team without the Macs, JD, Bellew & Oisin will be ordinary and very beatable.  The likes of the Kernan brothers are all good players, but they'll certainly not strike fear into hearts the way JD and Bellew have done, and I think that's half the battle when playing Cross.

[corn02]

I don't know what goes on at the Development squads so I cannot comment on whether they would be good or bad.  What I do know is that there is a regular flow of young players form the underage squads onto the senior squad.  These players are improving the squad every year.  There are now 30 lads who can play senior championship on the squad.  When I was playing you could not say that.  The likes of Titch and Paul McKeown will develop into serious county players in the next 2-3 years and they did no need for development squads.  Surely if they are so good other clubs wouldn't want to see Cross players at them as there are enough of them graduating to seniors at the minute

There's a good chance that this may sound ridculous but I firmly believe a Cross team without the Macs, JD, Bellew & Oisin will be ordinary and very beatable.  The likes of the Kernan brothers are all good players, but they'll certainly not strike fear into hearts the way JD and Bellew have done, and I think that's half the battle when playing Cross.

Of course they will be beatable, that group of players was the best ever seen at Armagh club level, you can't just replace it. But I think people are missing the point, it may not harm Cross' development, but surely it wil lhurt Armagh's.

[brokencrossbar1]

benny, I have no doubt that when those players retire the cycle will slow down and Cross will find it harder to maintain the current level.  The thing is though, that Macs are 3-4 years away from club retirement, as are Oisin and Francie.  In the intervening 3-4 years the likes of David McKenna, Paul McKeown, Jamie Clarke, Ryan and Kyle Carragher will all have developed into established senior players.  Add those players onto the 4 Kernan's Brendan McKeown, Mickey McNamee, Johnny Hannratty, and you see where I am going here.  They may not have a run of wins like is happening at the minute, but I still think they will dominate.

Concerning the debate about development squads. I have one question BC if the Cross hadn't been so successful at senior level over the last 15 years do you think they would be encouraging young players from going to the development county squads?? Now i know you don't speak for  the current cross  managersBC but i would generally like to hear your views on this.  I think there has been a gradual battle between Cross and the county  becoming increasingly visible over the past few years. I think there is a touch of arrogance on the side of the Cross, because of there success i feel they sometimes think they can do whatever they want and the issue at hand is a further example. It seems they are saying to the young lads don't go to these county things stay at Cross and we will look after you because we are infact better than the county. Now this is great if that is the case but in the long run i think it will pose a few problems for the Cross. My club would be renowned for being arrogant and i will accept that (so i don' want to make this into a clans versus the rest of the county debate) But this has backfired on us. I would just be interested to hear the rest of the opinions on the subject.

I know what you are saying, but if there is an animosity between Cross and the county, then why is it up to Cross to do anything about it.  If the club underage management feel that the best interests of the young players is to keep them at the club, I see no problem with that.  Of course I would like to see Armagh do well, but to me the notion of having development squads for young lads at the age of 15 is wrong.  They have enough matches at most clubs to keep them going and there is the risk that if they are left out of a development squad, they are at an age where they will throw the head up.  I do not see the same problem with Cross that the Clans had to deal with as there is a very strong link between every team and the people coaching the underage teams are flowing down from the senior team.  There is continuity there.

[bennydorano]

I don't know what goes on at the Development squads so I cannot comment on whether they would be good or bad.  What I do know is that there is a regular flow of young players form the underage squads onto the senior squad.  These players are improving the squad every year.  There are now 30 lads who can play senior championship on the squad.  When I was playing you could not say that.  The likes of Titch and Paul McKeown will develop into serious county players in the next 2-3 years and they did no need for development squads.  Surely if they are so good other clubs wouldn't want to see Cross players at them as there are enough of them graduating to seniors at the minute

There's a good chance that this may sound ridculous but I firmly believe a Cross team without the Macs, JD, Bellew & Oisin will be ordinary and very beatable.  The likes of the Kernan brothers are all good players, but they'll certainly not strike fear into hearts the way JD and Bellew have done, and I think that's half the battle when playing Cross.

Of course they will be beatable, that group of players was the best ever seen at Armagh club level, you can't just replace it. But I think people are missing the point, it may not harm Cross' development, but surely it wil lhurt Armagh's.

To be perfectly honest Armagh's wellbeing is (and should be) a distant second to club interests.

[corn02]

Of course I wouldn't argue with that Benny, but I raised the point about the fall-out with the thought that this will hamper Armagh's development. I hate to continually refer to Tyrone, but the results are obvious from their point of view.

On the club side, will it hamper Cross? I would be of the opinion it will. Obviously they have had no problems as of yet and BC rightly points to players coming through, but I'd say the majority of those played Armagh U-16 and minor and Ryan was always involved with Abbey teams. I think it was fullback who said the only benefit players will get is playing against a higher standard of player, that in itself is a good enough reason.