Ulster Club SFC 2024

[thebigfullforward]

See ones here complaining about EC players goading TK into making that challenge as if any other good team wouldn't do the exact same. It would almost be stupid for EC to not take advantage of the oppositions best player being on a yellow. I do think however Ben McDonnell and possible McCartan got away with potential yellow cards

No complaints about that, goad away and you'd expect CE to do the same if it was Peter Harte or whoever on the yellow card.

Problem is that 1. The second yellow wasn't even a foul nevermind a card and 2. All the EC fouls that should have been cards missed.

And on the penalty, any cynical challenge stopping a goal like that should be a black card offence, if the rules don't agree then change the rules.

I didn't think it was a yellow at the game but watching it back I just can't see how it isn't. It might have been Canavan going at pace but TK seemed to just throw a lazy arm across Canavan's chest.

As I said I think McDonnell and McCartan could've got cards but not for any fouls, moreso for mouthing off to the officials which I think warrants a yellow but not sure. So will need to rewatch to see for any missed cards that could've been given if you can tell me what you think was missed.

On the penalty I'm not sure of the rules. I remember a Tyrone game (not sure year or opponent) where Kennedy or Kilpatrick was taken out of it and the ref gave a penalty no card. There's been plenty of club games where pens have been given but no black card given (think Carrickmore vs Edendork first round last year, Dungannon Trillick league game a year or 2 ago). Genuinely not sure what the rules are but it's happened before, it's not some grand conspiracy

[thebigfullforward]

The foul when seen again on tv just now was a very debatable card. Normally you could argue it was, but there were many many worse hits and tackles throughout the game which were not dealt with the same severity from McQuillan

In saying that, TK should have known he was in a knife edge - would he have made that rash tackle playing for Armagh?

The man stuck his fingers in Comers eye when he wasn't even playing. He's not exactly an angel

Why would that be in any way relevant?

A dirty player would probably make that challenge for Armagh

[gallsman]

Christ almighty, big hard Armagh men getting pulled down to the ground by a tug on the shorts. Embarrassing stuff altogether.

If that was given as a black card against your team you'd be fuming.

Was it a deliberate pull down? Did Magee dive? What's actually embarrassing is that the ref didn't even issue a yellow card.

Quite simply...no. It wasn't a pull down, deliberate or otherwise.

So it has to be a Cavanagh-esque rugby tackle to constitute a pull down?

Magee threw himself to the ground to highlight the foul. You know this. Continuing to pretend that you believe he was dragged down is, frankly, embarrassing. It was not a black card offence.

[JoG2]

See ones here complaining about EC players goading TK into making that challenge as if any other good team wouldn't do the exact same. It would almost be stupid for EC to not take advantage of the oppositions best player being on a yellow. I do think however Ben McDonnell and possible McCartan got away with potential yellow cards

No complaints about that, goad away and you'd expect CE to do the same if it was Peter Harte or whoever on the yellow card.

Problem is that 1. The second yellow wasn't even a foul nevermind a card and 2. All the EC fouls that should have been cards missed.

And on the penalty, any cynical challenge stopping a goal like that should be a black card offence, if the rules don't agree then change the rules.

I didn't think it was a yellow at the game but watching it back I just can't see how it isn't. It might have been Canavan going at pace but TK seemed to just throw a lazy arm across Canavan's chest.

As I said I think McDonnell and McCartan could've got cards but not for any fouls, moreso for mouthing off to the officials which I think warrants a yellow but not sure. So will need to rewatch to see for any missed cards that could've been given if you can tell me what you think was missed.

On the penalty I'm not sure of the rules. I remember a Tyrone game (not sure year or opponent) where Kennedy or Kilpatrick was taken out of it and the ref gave a penalty no card. There's been plenty of club games where pens have been given but no black card given (think Carrickmore vs Edendork first round last year, Dungannon Trillick league game a year or 2 ago). Genuinely not sure what the rules are but it's happened before, it's not some grand conspiracy

Black card, has been for 10 years

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

It's not as straightforward as that. It needs to be "in an aggressive manner". What's that and who decides it?

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

Christ almighty, big hard Armagh men getting pulled down to the ground by a tug on the shorts. Embarrassing stuff altogether.

If that was given as a black card against your team you'd be fuming.

Was it a deliberate pull down? Did Magee dive? What's actually embarrassing is that the ref didn't even issue a yellow card.

Quite simply...no. It wasn't a pull down, deliberate or otherwise.

So it has to be a Cavanagh-esque rugby tackle to constitute a pull down?

It needs to be a pull down. This one clearly wasn't one.

[Milltown Row2]

It's not as straightforward as that. It needs to be "in an aggressive manner". What's that and who decides it?

The ref. If a player runs towards a referee (as in goes out of his way) to complain into his face, that's aggressive

I think anyone raising their voice in an aggressive manner to any official needs to get a black card, I've done it a few times and each occasion was done because of multiple times of a player was giving off about a decision made, questioning a call its moving the ball forward but there is only so much ya can take and it cuts out the yapping

[general_lee]

Christ almighty, big hard Armagh men getting pulled down to the ground by a tug on the shorts. Embarrassing stuff altogether.

If that was given as a black card against your team you'd be fuming.

Was it a deliberate pull down? Did Magee dive? What's actually embarrassing is that the ref didn't even issue a yellow card.

Quite simply...no. It wasn't a pull down, deliberate or otherwise.

So it has to be a Cavanagh-esque rugby tackle to constitute a pull down?

Magee threw himself to the ground to highlight the foul. You know this. Continuing to pretend that you believe he was dragged down is, frankly, embarrassing. It was not a black card offence.

That's some reach. I haven't said he was dragged down anywhere (I have asked - there is such ambiguity in the rules it's hard to tell sometimes)
He was pulled by the shorts which constitutes bodily contact and therefore a yellow card for EC. How the ref can give TK a second yellow but not the EC defender in this instance is puzzling.

[JoG2]

It's not as straightforward as that. It needs to be "in an aggressive manner". What's that and who decides it?

It's couldn't be any more straight forward

[lfdown2]

Christ almighty, big hard Armagh men getting pulled down to the ground by a tug on the shorts. Embarrassing stuff altogether.

If that was given as a black card against your team you'd be fuming.

Was it a deliberate pull down? Did Magee dive? What's actually embarrassing is that the ref didn't even issue a yellow card.

Quite simply...no. It wasn't a pull down, deliberate or otherwise.

So it has to be a Cavanagh-esque rugby tackle to constitute a pull down?

Magee threw himself to the ground to highlight the foul. You know this. Continuing to pretend that you believe he was dragged down is, frankly, embarrassing. It was not a black card offence.

That's some reach. I haven't said he was dragged down anywhere (I have asked - there is such ambiguity in the rules it's hard to tell sometimes)
He was pulled by the shorts which constitutes bodily contact and therefore a yellow card for EC. How the ref can give TK a second yellow but not the EC defender in this instance is puzzling.

5.5 To hold an opponent with the hand(s).

PENALTY FOR THE ABOVE FOULS-
(i) Free kick from where the foul occurred except
as provided under Exceptions of Rule 2.2.
(ii) Caution offender for committing any of the
above fouls a second time. Order off for a
further repetition or for other cautionable foul.

[Milltown Row2]

Christ almighty, big hard Armagh men getting pulled down to the ground by a tug on the shorts. Embarrassing stuff altogether.

If that was given as a black card against your team you'd be fuming.

Was it a deliberate pull down? Did Magee dive? What's actually embarrassing is that the ref didn't even issue a yellow card.

Quite simply...no. It wasn't a pull down, deliberate or otherwise.

So it has to be a Cavanagh-esque rugby tackle to constitute a pull down?

Magee threw himself to the ground to highlight the foul. You know this. Continuing to pretend that you believe he was dragged down is, frankly, embarrassing. It was not a black card offence.

That's some reach. I haven't said he was dragged down anywhere (I have asked - there is such ambiguity in the rules it's hard to tell sometimes)
He was pulled by the shorts which constitutes bodily contact and therefore a yellow card for EC. How the ref can give TK a second yellow but not the EC defender in this instance is puzzling.

5.5 To hold an opponent with the hand(s).

PENALTY FOR THE ABOVE FOULS-
(i) Free kick from where the foul occurred except
as provided under Exceptions of Rule 2.2.
(ii) Caution offender for committing any of the
above fouls a second time. Order off for a
further repetition or for other cautionable foul.

Good man

[thebigfullforward]

Christ almighty, big hard Armagh men getting pulled down to the ground by a tug on the shorts. Embarrassing stuff altogether.

If that was given as a black card against your team you'd be fuming.

Was it a deliberate pull down? Did Magee dive? What's actually embarrassing is that the ref didn't even issue a yellow card.

Quite simply...no. It wasn't a pull down, deliberate or otherwise.

So it has to be a Cavanagh-esque rugby tackle to constitute a pull down?

Magee threw himself to the ground to highlight the foul. You know this. Continuing to pretend that you believe he was dragged down is, frankly, embarrassing. It was not a black card offence.

That's some reach. I haven't said he was dragged down anywhere (I have asked - there is such ambiguity in the rules it's hard to tell sometimes)
He was pulled by the shorts which constitutes bodily contact and therefore a yellow card for EC. How the ref can give TK a second yellow but not the EC defender in this instance is puzzling.

5.5 To hold an opponent with the hand(s).

PENALTY FOR THE ABOVE FOULS-
(i) Free kick from where the foul occurred except
as provided under Exceptions of Rule 2.2.
(ii) Caution offender for committing any of the
above fouls a second time. Order off for a
further repetition or for other cautionable foul.

There we go then. Referee actually got it right lads

[gallsman]

Imagine that, lads on this thread whinging about the ref making mistakes while completely ignorant of the rules themselves.

And regardless of anything that happened with the ref, CE had it in their gift to win that game. The crying about McQuillan is pathetic. I can't imagine too many of their star players who didn't turn up are screaming about how it was all his fault.

We lost a Leinster QF a few weeks ago by a point after a ref gave a 65th minute free against us in front of the posts for what, at the time and on replay, was clearly a perfectly fair shoulder charge. It's frustrating and infuriating, but we were 4 points up at half time, having played against the wind and should have won out handily enough. That's what cost us the game, not the ref.

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

It's not as straightforward as that. It needs to be "in an aggressive manner". What's that and who decides it?

The ref. If a player runs towards a referee (as in goes out of his way) to complain into his face, that's aggressive

I think anyone raising their voice in an aggressive manner to any official needs to get a black card, I've done it a few times and each occasion was done because of multiple times of a player was giving off about a decision made, questioning a call its moving the ball forward but there is only so much ya can take and it cuts out the yapping

Exactly. And as the rest of your post shows, refs are left to make it up as they go along.
It mightn't be aggressive, it might be constant complaining (though that isn't mentioned in the rules). How many times is multiple? Every ref is going to have a different threshold of what constitutes aggressive and constant. It is hard to have any consistency with that.

As I say, it is not straightforward.

[Would ye whist]

Jeez Armagh wans whinging, who would have thought it