The ulster rugby trial

[Asal Mor]

"Got herself into a situation" were my words not AZs obviously. I don't want to misrepresent anyone.

Do people ever have to warn their sons about their actions on a night out? Or is it just the daughters we should be concentrating on?

I answered this question from seafoid 4 posts ago.

[Asal Mor]

There you go again. She got herself into "this situation". There was no "situation" until she was allegedly raped.

I would consider a 19 year old girl being drunk in a house with 4 very drunk men she doesn't know "a situation".

[Milltown Row2]

"Got herself into a situation" were my words not AZs obviously. I don't want to misrepresent anyone.

Do people ever have to warn their sons about their actions on a night out? Or is it just the daughters we should be concentrating on?

Wouldn't know what other parents do but I know I gave life advice to my kids, boys and girls, that includes their actions have reactions and be wary. There is no rule book or manual on being a parent you hope things work out!

When you have teenagers you can give them that pep talk

[Asal Mor]

"Got herself into a situation" were my words not AZs obviously. I don't want to misrepresent anyone.

Do people ever have to warn their sons about their actions on a night out? Or is it just the daughters we should be concentrating on?

Wouldn't know what other parents do but I know I gave life advice to my kids, boys and girls, that includes their actions have reactions and be wary. There is no rule book or manual on being a parent you hope things work out!

When you have teenagers you can give them that pep talk

Absolutely. Anyone who isn't giving that life advice isn't really being a parent. Not to say I'm dad of the year. I spend too much time engaged in pointless arguments on Internet forums for a start.

[nrico2006]

There you go again. She got herself into "this situation". There was no "situation" until she was allegedly raped.

I would consider a 19 year old girl being drunk in a house with 4 very drunk men she doesn't know "a situation".

Agreed.

[Syferus]

"Got herself into a situation" were my words not AZs obviously. I don't want to misrepresent anyone.

Do people ever have to warn their sons about their actions on a night out? Or is it just the daughters we should be concentrating on?

Wouldn't know what other parents do but I know I gave life advice to my kids, boys and girls, that includes their actions have reactions and be wary. There is no rule book or manual on being a parent you hope things work out!

When you have teenagers you can give them that pep talk

Absolutely. Anyone who isn't giving that life advice isn't really being a parent. Not to say I'm dad of the year. I spend too much time engaged in pointless arguments on Internet forums for a start.

You certainly wouldn't be father of the year with the sort of regressive stuff you've came out with in this thread alright. What was that about the MeToo movement again?

[Milltown Row2]

"Got herself into a situation" were my words not AZs obviously. I don't want to misrepresent anyone.

Do people ever have to warn their sons about their actions on a night out? Or is it just the daughters we should be concentrating on?

Wouldn't know what other parents do but I know I gave life advice to my kids, boys and girls, that includes their actions have reactions and be wary. There is no rule book or manual on being a parent you hope things work out!

When you have teenagers you can give them that pep talk

Absolutely. Anyone who isn't giving that life advice isn't really being a parent. Not to say I'm dad of the year. I spend too much time engaged in pointless arguments on Internet forums for a start.

You certainly wouldn't be father of the year with the sort of regressive stuff you've came out with in this thread alright. What was that about the MeToo movement again?

Syferus when you ever get the chance to meet a girl, develop a real relationship get married have kids I'll certainly listen to you when talking about father of the year. Though I doubt very much that will ever happen.

[Asal Mor]

Syferus, I compared some actresses in Hollywood who consentually sleep with men for money to women in red light districts who consentually sleep with men for money. Your shock at this is very middle class and rather than showing you to be as progressive as you think it does, it just reveals that you see prostitutes as some kind of sub-human scum. Like I said before, they would get the comparison. I would say on average their life choices are a lot tougher and generally they don't want to be doing it any more than the actresses do(some sex workers love their jobs though and good luck to them) .

I also said the MeToo movement was mostly positive but of course questioning any aspect of it is "victim blaming" and that's the part that the likes of yourself will zone in on as it represents a chance to jump up on the high horse, which is all you really give a shit about anyway.

Some women who attached themselves to the MeToo movement, did very well out of sleeping with powerful men in Hollywood and would do the exact same if they could travel back in time. They are not victims. They are attention seekers.

[AQMP]

There you go again. She got herself into "this situation". There was no "situation" until she was allegedly raped.

I would consider a 19 year old girl being drunk in a house with 4 very drunk men she doesn't know "a situation".

Earlier you said this situation fell into the 90% of cases where the perp is known to or acquainted with the victim. Now you're saying she didn't know them. Which is it?

[AQMP]

Of course they might not listen anyway. My only point was that drinking too much and ending up in a house full of strangers isn't a good idea and the dangers are greater for a girl. I know it's so obvious that I shouldn't bother making it but I was honestly unsure whether some people accepted that simple truth from their reactions to it being brought up on this thread.

According to Rape Crisis England and Wales approx 90% of rape victims know or are acquainted with the perpetrator beforehand.  So should we tell our daughters not to go out drinking with, and end up in a house with, people they know too?

How do they define "know or are acquainted with"? The girl had been drinking with Jackson and his friends so I think might have fitted into the 90% rather than the 10% (if she was raped that is, from what I've heard I believe she consented).

But she didn't know them, as you've confirmed, so it actually falls into the 10% (if it's shown to have been a rape)??

[Milltown Row2]

Of course they might not listen anyway. My only point was that drinking too much and ending up in a house full of strangers isn't a good idea and the dangers are greater for a girl. I know it's so obvious that I shouldn't bother making it but I was honestly unsure whether some people accepted that simple truth from their reactions to it being brought up on this thread.

According to Rape Crisis England and Wales approx 90% of rape victims know or are acquainted with the perpetrator beforehand.  So should we tell our daughters not to go out drinking with, and end up in a house with, people they know too?

How do they define "know or are acquainted with"? The girl had been drinking with Jackson and his friends so I think might have fitted into the 90% rather than the 10% (if she was raped that is, from what I've heard I believe she consented).

But she didn't know them, as you've confirmed, so it actually falls into the 10% (if it's shown to have been a rape)??

She claimed she didn't but I doubt that

[brokencrossbar1]

I would tend to agree with MR2. Given her background and who she was there is a high likelihood that she knew Jackson at least. She may never have met him nor knew what he was like but it's not a huge jump to suggest that she knew who he was. It is supposition I know but a pretty educated guess.

[gallsman]

There is a distinct difference between knowing someone and knowing who someone is.

[Over the Bar]

There is a distinct difference between knowing someone and knowing who someone is.

There is, as well as several in between.  e.g. met before, been in company of etc.  Don't think there's any suggestion they were buddies but highly likely she met him before since a)  the lads considered themselves 'top shaggers' and b)  the girl in question is a real stunner and finally c)  they all frequented the rather small  VIP area of Ollie's so their paths will have crossed I'd expect.

[AQMP]

Of course they might not listen anyway. My only point was that drinking too much and ending up in a house full of strangers isn't a good idea and the dangers are greater for a girl. I know it's so obvious that I shouldn't bother making it but I was honestly unsure whether some people accepted that simple truth from their reactions to it being brought up on this thread.

According to Rape Crisis England and Wales approx 90% of rape victims know or are acquainted with the perpetrator beforehand.  So should we tell our daughters not to go out drinking with, and end up in a house with, people they know too?

How do they define "know or are acquainted with"? The girl had been drinking with Jackson and his friends so I think might have fitted into the 90% rather than the 10% (if she was raped that is, from what I've heard I believe she consented).

But she didn't know them, as you've confirmed, so it actually falls into the 10% (if it's shown to have been a rape)??

She claimed she didn't but I doubt that

Just pointing out the inconsistency in AM's posts. I'd agree she probably knew who Jackson was anyway. Maybe not Olding and probably not the other two. Though I think McIlroy was with Ulster for a year at one stage.