The run up to conflict in Northern Ireland

[seafoid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI-q59ycMws

the Cameron Report
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/othelem/index.html

It must have been pure hell for catholics pre 1969 , not that it was much better afterwards..

[T Fearon]

As one who grew up in a Protestant unionist town in the 60s,I have memories of a fairly happy childhood.Both my parents had jobs,where their work colleagues were pre dominantly Protestant,as were our neighbours,and my playmates.I have fond memories of going to Kids Christmas parties put on by mum's employers,and actually attending 11th of July bonfires where all the kids received minerals and crisps (a rare enough treat for a child back in the 60s).

Life started to get tough when segregation brought about by the troubles started to happen in the early 70s and unfortunately my teenage years were a lot more tense than those carefree days of the 60s

[seafoid]

As one who grew up in a Protestant unionist town in the 60s,I have memories of a fairly happy childhood.Both my parents had jobs,where their work colleagues were pre dominantly Protestant,as were our neighbours,and my playmates.I have fond memories of going to Kids Christmas parties put on by mum's employers,and actually attending 11th of July bonfires where all the kids received minerals and crisps (a rare enough treat for a child back in the 60s).

Life started to get tough when segregation brought about by the troubles started to happen in the early 70s and unfortunately my teenage years were a lot more tense than those carefree days of the 60s

It didnt look like it was remotely sustainable. The Prod State for a Prod people barely lasted a generation before the political system collapsed.

[The Subbie]

When I compare Tony's view with what my mother told me of growing up in 1950's Benburb - having to walk to Backwatertown to go to school whilst Protestant neighbours got the bus the short distance to Benburb school it makes me wonder was there more or less discrimination in town or rural areas, serious question.
My mother still to this day never forgot the school bus situation, also my grandfather worked for years "on the rivers and drains" & it was commonplace for young protestant lads to get promoted after mere days on the job to foreman positions, credit in protestant business's was given freely to other protestants but barely if ever to Catholics no matter how well the farm etc was going

[seafoid]

When I compare Tony's view with what my mother told me of growing up in 1950's Benburb - having to walk to Backwatertown to go to school whilst Protestant neighbours got the bus the short distance to Benburb school it makes me wonder was there more or less discrimination in town or rural areas, serious question.
My mother still to this day never forgot the school bus situation, also my grandfather worked for years "on the rivers and drains" & it was commonplace for young protestant lads to get promoted after mere days on the job to foreman positions, credit in protestant business's was given freely to other protestants but barely if ever to Catholics no matter how well the farm etc was going

I imagine that in the towns there was a very strong class edge to the worst anti catholic bigotry. It was the same class of people who did most of the dying during the years of violence, on both sides.

[T Fearon]

I can assure you my background is very firmly working class.Im not denying there was bigotry and discrimination,my mum lost practically all her siblings due to emigration in order to find work.But in my experience,it wasn't anywhere near as bad as it was made out to be.

There was no segregation in housing in the 60s,no peace walls etc,these all happened after the outbreak of the troubles.Portadown had its fair share of Catholic professionals,medical,legal etc,and business people,all of whom enjoyed lifestyles far superior to working class Protestants and Catholics.

[imtommygunn]

I know a few older guys from round ardoyne area and they would say what fearon says. No segregation in 60s and neighbours of opposite religions mingled. Then it all changed.

[stew]

I went with a girl whose name is Mairead, when her mother went to name her the woman refused to let her be named Mairead so she was named Paula Mairead, this was in 1966, she was told the name Mairead was 'Too Irish'

I was blessed in that I grew up in Longstone, a council estate on the edge of Armagh, great neighbors and there was very little bother at all at all.

[BennyCake]

I know a few older guys from round ardoyne area and they would say what fearon says. No segregation in 60s and neighbours of opposite religions mingled. Then it all changed.

Yes, no segregation and opposite religions mingled but in many cases when it came to July, Fenians took all sorts of abuse from neighbours who were civil enough to them the rest of the year. Many would say that 'our side' knew its place in society and grew to accept it. This continued in many ways through a large part of the troubles. An example of this was a man who worked for a large company in Belfast with workers from both sides having to take a Saturday off work. Everyone in the place knew he was a Catholic but he could never disclose his reason for taking the day off apart from to a couple of close friends who wouldn't let it slip. The man's daughter was making her first communion. That was well into the troubles.

Knew their place and both sides accepted that, but when the civil rights marches started and Catholics wanted better basic needs and requirements, BAM! Suddenly there's a problem from Unionism, and them pesky Catholics can't have that, who do they think they are? The same as us protestants?! ...and there's your troubles began.

[Hereiam]

My father to this day still tells me how the local bank wouldn't lend him money back in 1970 to put up a cow shed. He was adamant that it was because of his religion. I don't think he was far wrong.

[T Fearon]

We have probably all experienced times when we had to keep the head down etc.But pre troubles things weren't too bad.30s and 40s were a lot worse,but I am increasingly of the view that sectarianism has and is being used to divide the working classes

[reddgnhand]

We have probably all experienced times when we had to keep the head down etc.But pre troubles things weren't too bad.30s and 40s were a lot worse,but I am increasingly of the view that sectarianism has and is being used to divide the working classes

Cap doffer.

[omaghjoe]

My own perception of the increasing divisions would be that it was down to the urbanisation of the population. Back to even quite recently (like during the troubles) we would have given and got help from Protestant neighbours on the farm and as I understand it this was common place in all areas. When people moved to the more urban areas they started to associate more and more with "their own kind", these communities grew and they then would see less and less of "the other side". Although in Omagh and hinterlands community relations have been and still are very good. Even in the town there is alot of Catholics that could trace their roots to soldiers from "the camp" as it was known.

I would also raise an ebrow at segregation only starting with the troubles. In the Omagh area it started before that with gerrymandering and would say that it had a direct affect in diminishing community relations. The very fact that you even have to start talking about community relations means that they are soured to some degree.

[T Fearon]

The fact remains that in Portadown,as I presume was the case everywhere else, working class Catholics and Protestants lived together in the same shitty housing complexes,worked together in the same shitty low paid jobs etc,whereas the Catholic and Pritestant middle classes lived( and continued right through the troubles) to live in affluent tree lined avenues .

Thankfully neither I nor anyone in my family every experienced any change in the warm and cordial relationships we enjoyed with our Protestant friends and neighbours,either pre,during or post troubles.

[Eamonnca1]

Fascinating.