Ogra Sinn Fein and their Commemoration at Narrow Water

[doire na raithe]

I didn't object.

[Doogie Browser]

To be honest anyone with an interest in the troubles is going to find these sites of interest.  Call it macabre but there is a fascination with such locations and I see no problem with the visit, as has been pointed out the black taxi tours have been doing such things for years and the belfast open top buses also include the trouble spots on their itinerary.
Jim Wells should have a word with his party colleague Gospel Willie McCrea if it bothers him that much, he after all was happy to stand up and support the biggest loyalist mass murderer of the troubles, these things will always happen and people will go out of their way to take offence.

[DownFanatic]

Being from Newcastle and having lived there all my life, Id have to say that sectarianism is nearly non-existent in our town. Newcastle was largely untouched by the Troubles and as far back as I remember relations between both sides have been very amicable.

Now, im not political and I never have been but these Ogra Sinn Fein boyos are really starting to f**k me off. They go around attacking Orange halls and they deface public property in the form of post boxes and then they expect to be respected in the wider community.

I know for a fact that the wider Newcastle community are appalled at the actions of Ogra Sinn Fein in the town and their attempt to stir up political tensions. Newcastle doesn't need this type of trouble making and I sincerely hope that Ogra Sinn Fein soon disappear and f**k away off back to wherever they came from.

[doire na raithe]

Being from Newcastle and having lived there all my life, Id have to say that sectarianism is nearly non-existent in our town. Newcastle was largely untouched by the Troubles and as far back as I remember relations between both sides have been very amicable.

Now, im not political and I never have been but these Ogra Sinn Fein boyos are really starting to f**k me off. They go around attacking Orange halls and they deface public property in the form of post boxes and then they expect to be respected in the wider community.

I know for a fact that the wider Newcastle community are appalled at the actions of Ogra Sinn Fein in the town and their attempt to stir up political tensions. Newcastle doesn't need this type of trouble making and I sincerely hope that Ogra Sinn Fein soon disappear and f**k away off back to wherever they came from.

...Kilcoo

[Uladh]

I wouldn't be offended by this craic - though some of the ogra Shinner stuff makes sinn fein cringe- but i can see why the other community might be. for that reason, why do it? learning to live in peace means learning to avoid deliberatly offend others where its avoidable.

what is this event achieving for young republicans?

[DownFanatic]

Being from Newcastle and having lived there all my life, Id have to say that sectarianism is nearly non-existent in our town. Newcastle was largely untouched by the Troubles and as far back as I remember relations between both sides have been very amicable.

Now, im not political and I never have been but these Ogra Sinn Fein boyos are really starting to f**k me off. They go around attacking Orange halls and they deface public property in the form of post boxes and then they expect to be respected in the wider community.

I know for a fact that the wider Newcastle community are appalled at the actions of Ogra Sinn Fein in the town and their attempt to stir up political tensions. Newcastle doesn't need this type of trouble making and I sincerely hope that Ogra Sinn Fein soon disappear and f**k away off back to wherever they came from.

...Kilcoo

The members that I am aware of are actually young Newcastle lads.

[Boolerhead Mel]

So if they are from Newcastle was it a bit pointless asking them "f**k away of " when they live in Newscastle?

[Myles Na G.]

I would have thought it was obvious?

The 'historical tour' is obviously being perceived as some form of 'gloating' or 'galmorization' at best. This may cause some members of the British community to take offence to the perceived disrespect being shown to their fallen soldiers.

I was referring to people here.
Is the problem here, with a few posters, with the rampant prejudiced images their imagination inflicts upon their perceptions that transforms a historical tour into disrespect for fallen soldiers with degrees of gloating' or galmorization?
They were soldiers, they got killed, it happens. Their graves are not there (to be píssed upon).
Some people want to know how it happened, where it happened  and maybe also the military technique of the remote ambush.
And how that tourist get killed.

What would  opinions be on taxi tours charging money to drive people around "historical" sites in Belfast?
Or as Pints remarked, paying money to go an a "ripper" tour?

The 'some people' who want to know how it happened aren't a bunch of dispassionate Japanese tourists. They are part of an organisation which was actively involved in the conflict. Indeed, the movement they belong to were responsible for the deaths of those at Warrenpoint. This makes it different from taxi or bus tours. Would the UDP get away with organising tours round Milltown Cemetery to get a better understanding of Michael Stone's 'military technique'? Many people also have a problem with the selective nature of the 'historical tour'. Plenty of other events with republican involvement could have been added to the agenda: Darkley, Kingsmill, Teebane, Omagh, La Mons, Guildford, Birmingham, etc, etc, etc. What about the Belfast Bloody Friday tour? That would pack them in. This is nothing other than a cheap shot propaganda attempt by the junior Shinners, an attempt to portray their heroes as a heroic guerilla outfit which took on the Brits. The truth, as illustrated by the events I've mentioned, is that they were a collection of murdering, sectarian bunglers who set back the cause of Irish unity by several decades.

[pintsofguinness]

Pathetic

[fitzroyalty]

The thing at Narrow Water is part of "Republican Youth Weekend". Now before you go jumping down my throats maybe some of you should have a look at the theme on which it is based: From Prison to Politics. This to me would suggest it is more about educating young republicans about the movement they wish to be a part of as many will not have experienced life in the conflict and the transformation mainstream republicanism has made. On the flier it says about "talks by MLAs & ex-POWs", "debate", "demilitarisation protest", "rebel night" and "much more". Contrary to what some posters are suggesting, I don't find anything particularly sinister about it, it has been organised by members in the South Down area so for it include a significant event that occurred during the Troubles in the locality is not out of the ordinary.

[Main Street]

The truth, as illustrated by the events I've mentioned, is that they were a collection of murdering, sectarian bunglers who set back the cause of Irish unity by several decades.

Ah, the truth.
I love it when people  (especially those concerned about the shangri la of Irish Unity) claim the direct line to the truth in order to support a baseless theoretical historical notion.

[dodgy umpire]

Willie Frazer does (or did) tour buses around south armagh showing people sites where the IRA killed soldiers and policemen, why was he not accused of the same thing as ogra shinn fein by jim wells and his ilk

[Gaffer]

Willie Frazer does (or did) tour buses around south armagh showing people sites where the IRA killed soldiers and policemen, why was he not accused of the same thing as ogra shinn fein by jim wells and his ilk

I'd say it would be down to individual perception. Could you imagine the reaction if he organised a tour taking people around places like Loughgall police station?

If Frazer took a group of young loyalists to Loughgall and told them the whole story  about what happened, the same people who attended Narrowwater yesterday would be critical of him doing it, no doubt about it,

(or maybe they would be supporting him and stating that he has the right to do it)

Saw the footage of the young republicans attending yesterdays event.

Looked like a group of intellectuals indeed !!!!

Would love to see the results of their IQ test

[lynchbhoy]

I would have thought it was obvious?

The 'historical tour' is obviously being perceived as some form of 'gloating' or 'galmorization' at best. This may cause some members of the British community to take offence to the perceived disrespect being shown to their fallen soldiers.

I was referring to people here.
Is the problem here, with a few posters, with the rampant prejudiced images their imagination inflicts upon their perceptions that transforms a historical tour into disrespect for fallen soldiers with degrees of gloating' or galmorization?
They were soldiers, they got killed, it happens. Their graves are not there (to be píssed upon).
Some people want to know how it happened, where it happened  and maybe also the military technique of the remote ambush.
And how that tourist get killed.

What would  opinions be on taxi tours charging money to drive people around "historical" sites in Belfast?
Or as Pints remarked, paying money to go an a "ripper" tour?

The 'some people' who want to know how it happened aren't a bunch of dispassionate Japanese tourists. They are part of an organisation which was actively involved in the conflict. Indeed, the movement they belong to were responsible for the deaths of those at Warrenpoint. This makes it different from taxi or bus tours. Would the UDP get away with organising tours round Milltown Cemetery to get a better understanding of Michael Stone's 'military technique'? Many people also have a problem with the selective nature of the 'historical tour'. Plenty of other events with republican involvement could have been added to the agenda: Darkley, Kingsmill, Teebane, Omagh, La Mons, Guildford, Birmingham, etc, etc, etc. What about the Belfast Bloody Friday tour? That would pack them in. This is nothing other than a cheap shot propaganda attempt by the junior Shinners, an attempt to portray their heroes as a heroic guerilla outfit which took on the Brits. The truth, as illustrated by the events I've mentioned, is that they were a collection of murdering, sectarian bunglers who set back the cause of Irish unity by several decades.

yet the people 'outraged' at this 'tour' are the same people that back the annual orange marches through nationalist /catholic areas that have nothing to do with unionist/loyalists and orange order - apart from a distasteful show of 'triumphalism'.

there are ww1 and ww2 , american civil war etc battlesites etc tours - also auswitz (sp) is the worst of the worst but prob draws the largest audience of people - are they celebrating the death of jews?

(btw I dont see the point of this ogra sf march and I also dont really see why its upsetting folk either - unless locals who could fear it will disturb the current peaceful climate. btw if ogra sf are guilty of burning ornage halls they should be charged with illegal offenses).

[lynchbhoy]

In a press release Ogra Shinn Fein spokesperson Fra Cochrane likened Irish people to Palestinians in "Gazza"..............

Mother of God. Does the man have no shame?

not quite sure of what your point is

if you are questioning the validity of likening palestinian plight to the oppressed Irish prior to GFA/ceasefire - then you (as usual ) are wong and dont know your historhas been pointed out to you by a few on here already.

If it was meant in the current day context, then I'd be surprised

however these are only similar on the surface. The israel /palestine situation is different to what we had here since even before the plantation of the six counties.
Coercion/oppression/apartheid/effective genocide etc was a one way street with Irish/catholics taking the full force of hatred and victimisation in the face.
Are you a recent immigrant to this country or something?