Papal Visit to Ireland

[omaghjoe]

The more intellectual among us believe that there is a purpose to life beyond simply breathing,eating,working and sleeping until one draws one's last breath.We also believe that there is enough general evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt that a man was once crucified on a cross yet three days later,arose from the dead.

The speed of light is 670,616,629 mph or 1,126,540,800 Km.
It takes light from the sun 8.3 minutes to get to earth.
It takes light from the sun 4.4 hours to get to Neptune.
Proxima Centauri is our nearest star at just over 4 light years. [If Voyager II was headed that way it would take about 76,000 years to get there]
The Milky Way is estimated to be between 100,000 - 180,000 light years across.
There are 100 million stars in our galaxy.
Andromeda, the nearest galaxy, is 2.54 million light years away [BTW we are on a collision course so these galaxies will merge in around 5 billion years]
There are as many galaxies in the Universe as there are grains of sand on earth.

So far a few of us have made it to the moon. If we were any good we would be at least trying trying to get a bit further. Any God must consider us a hopelessly failed experiment at this stage.

Matt Damon just grew spuds on Mars - we're doing great

Spuds? That always ends well.

Is there a link between each of these posts or am I missing something?

[deiseach]

There are as many galaxies in the Universe as there are grains of sand on earth.

I thought it was that there are many more stars in the Universe than there are grains of sand on Earth.

[muppet]

There are as many galaxies in the Universe as there are grains of sand on earth.

I thought it was that there are many more stars in the Universe than there are grains of sand on Earth.

Possibly.

Which documentary were you watching?

EDIT: Google brought this answer:

Approximate number of galaxies in the universe:
200,000,000,000 (200 billion)

Approximate number of grains of sand on Earth:
7,500,000,000,000,000,000 (7.5 quintillion)

Approximate number of stars in the universe:
70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (70 sextillion)

So you are correct.

[omaghjoe]

There are as many galaxies in the Universe as there are grains of sand on earth.

I thought it was that there are many more stars in the Universe than there are grains of sand on Earth.

Possibly.

Which documentary were you watching?

EDIT: Google brought this answer:

Approximate number of galaxies in the universe:
200,000,000,000 (200 billion)

Approximate number of grains of sand on Earth:
7,500,000,000,000,000,000 (7.5 quintillion)

Approximate number of stars in the universe:
70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (70 sextillion)

So you are correct.

Hang on now, is that current grains of sand? Grains of sand there has ever been? or potential grains of sand?

[muppet]

There are as many galaxies in the Universe as there are grains of sand on earth.

I thought it was that there are many more stars in the Universe than there are grains of sand on Earth.

Possibly.

Which documentary were you watching?

EDIT: Google brought this answer:

Approximate number of galaxies in the universe:
200,000,000,000 (200 billion)

Approximate number of grains of sand on Earth:
7,500,000,000,000,000,000 (7.5 quintillion)

Approximate number of stars in the universe:
70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (70 sextillion)

So you are correct.

Hang on now, is that current grains of sand? Grains of sand there has ever been? or potential grains of sand?

Or current stars, stars that ever existed or potential stars?

[omaghjoe]

There are as many galaxies in the Universe as there are grains of sand on earth.

I thought it was that there are many more stars in the Universe than there are grains of sand on Earth.

Possibly.

Which documentary were you watching?

EDIT: Google brought this answer:

Approximate number of galaxies in the universe:
200,000,000,000 (200 billion)

Approximate number of grains of sand on Earth:
7,500,000,000,000,000,000 (7.5 quintillion)

Approximate number of stars in the universe:
70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (70 sextillion)

So you are correct.

Hang on now, is that current grains of sand? Grains of sand there has ever been? or potential grains of sand?

Or current stars, stars that ever existed or potential stars?

Exactly...so which is it? Do dry dust particles count? What if they wet?

The Devil is in the detail here. You really need to iron this out Muppet and fully set out the criteria!

[easytiger95]

I see the Vatican have admitted that the Pope did give a private meeting to Kim Davies. She is the woman who is citing her religious faith (she is a Baptist) as a reason for not carrying out her duties as a county clerk by refusing to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples.

Irony alert - despite her public statements where she states that marriage is an institution sanctified and given by the Almighty, she is currently on her fourth husband. So the Pope gets her in and apparently gives her Rosary beads and tells her to "stay strong"

Plus ca change....

Very disappointing - maybe PR is this guy's only strong point.

[J70]

Yes but faith must have some basis all the same

Cultural tradition and "god of the gaps" can explain it, but it is hardly a robust basis.

Intuition would probably be the predominant basis followed by tradition.
The "God of the Gaps" basis would only be true if it there was an empirical God, which would be contrary to faith.

You don't think people rationalize and explain faith based on the concept of god of the gaps?

I don't get your meaning regarding the empirical god bit.

[The Iceman]

I see the Vatican have admitted that the Pope did give a private meeting to Kim Davies. She is the woman who is citing her religious faith (she is a Baptist) as a reason for not carrying out her duties as a county clerk by refusing to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples.

Irony alert - despite her public statements where she states that marriage is an institution sanctified and given by the Almighty, she is currently on her fourth husband. So the Pope gets her in and apparently gives her Rosary beads and tells her to "stay strong"

Plus ca change....

Very disappointing - maybe PR is this guy's only strong point.

She became a Christian later in life.
He met her to re-enforce his very public message about the importance of the traditional family - there plenty of Catholic commentary out there on it

[J70]

I see the Vatican have admitted that the Pope did give a private meeting to Kim Davies. She is the woman who is citing her religious faith (she is a Baptist) as a reason for not carrying out her duties as a county clerk by refusing to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples.

Irony alert - despite her public statements where she states that marriage is an institution sanctified and given by the Almighty, she is currently on her fourth husband. So the Pope gets her in and apparently gives her Rosary beads and tells her to "stay strong"

Plus ca change....

Very disappointing - maybe PR is this guy's only strong point.

She's not even catholic (well isn't now at least). She was "saved" recently which means the four marriages no longer count and she is not in fact a hypocrite! 

But yeah, the pope is mistaken here. She is no martyr or persecuted victim fighting the "good fight".

All this woman needs to do to satisfy her "conscience" is to resign her position. If you can't meet the requirements of the job, there are plenty out there who can.

[omaghjoe]

Yes but faith must have some basis all the same

Cultural tradition and "god of the gaps" can explain it, but it is hardly a robust basis.

Intuition would probably be the predominant basis followed by tradition.
The "God of the Gaps" basis would only be true if it there was an empirical God, which would be contrary to faith.

You don't think people rationalize and explain faith based on the concept of god of the gaps?

I don't get your meaning regarding the empirical god bit.

I just meant a physical God, or one that can be proved to physically exist with empirical evidence

Some/Many people do use a God of the Gaps of course to reinforce they faith but that isnt true faith. Probably why many lose their faith in fact, when they discover that the Gaps can be physically explained.

True faith must come from within...intuition is probably the best way of putting it but I dont think its completely accurate term either.

[easytiger95]

I see the Vatican have admitted that the Pope did give a private meeting to Kim Davies. She is the woman who is citing her religious faith (she is a Baptist) as a reason for not carrying out her duties as a county clerk by refusing to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples.

Irony alert - despite her public statements where she states that marriage is an institution sanctified and given by the Almighty, she is currently on her fourth husband. So the Pope gets her in and apparently gives her Rosary beads and tells her to "stay strong"

Plus ca change....

Very disappointing - maybe PR is this guy's only strong point.

She became a Christian later in life.
He met her to re-enforce his very public message about the importance of the traditional family - there plenty of Catholic commentary out there on it

One would have thought he could have picked a better example than a right wing nutjob, who is a pawn for political opportunists, hucksters and snake oil salesmen like Huckabee and Cruz (who were falling over themselves to visit her in jail). The fact the she was "saved" after her four marriages does not save her from the sin of hypocrisy - as a sinner, surely she should have followed Jesus' teachings of judge not, lest ye be judged?

And if she was truly a principled Christian, she would have sacrificed her salary and standing in the community by resigning from her job, and stating exactly why she felt she had to do so. Instead she is trying to keep the gig, whilst still denying other Americans their constitutional rights. As Pope Francis should know, you can't be half crucified. He picked the wrong "martyr" to visit.

[The Iceman]

I see the Vatican have admitted that the Pope did give a private meeting to Kim Davies. She is the woman who is citing her religious faith (she is a Baptist) as a reason for not carrying out her duties as a county clerk by refusing to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples.

Irony alert - despite her public statements where she states that marriage is an institution sanctified and given by the Almighty, she is currently on her fourth husband. So the Pope gets her in and apparently gives her Rosary beads and tells her to "stay strong"

Plus ca change....

Very disappointing - maybe PR is this guy's only strong point.

She became a Christian later in life.
He met her to re-enforce his very public message about the importance of the traditional family - there plenty of Catholic commentary out there on it

One would have thought he could have picked a better example than a right wing nutjob, who is a pawn for political opportunists, hucksters and snake oil salesmen like Huckabee and Cruz (who were falling over themselves to visit her in jail). The fact the she was "saved" after her four marriages does not save her from the sin of hypocrisy - as a sinner, surely she should have followed Jesus' teachings of judge not, lest ye be judged?

And if she was truly a principled Christian, she would have sacrificed her salary and standing in the community by resigning from her job, and stating exactly why she felt she had to do so. Instead she is trying to keep the gig, whilst still denying other Americans their constitutional rights. As Pope Francis should know, you can't be half crucified. He picked the wrong "martyr" to visit.

I don't know how she is a hypocrite. She admits her wrongdoings - she isn't championing adultery today, she isn't advocating marriage and re-marriage. Can't someone repent and be forgiven and move on?

The constitution allows religious freedom and calls for employers to make changes to a person's job or duties if it contradicts their religion. I agree she could quit but she was elected and the majority of people therefore supported her appointment knowing full well who she was and what she stood for. Someone else can issue the licenses (as has happened).

the Pope is giving the message that you dont want to hear. He is all for traditional marriage. He is all for loving everyone and calling everyone out of their sin.

[muppet]

I see the Vatican have admitted that the Pope did give a private meeting to Kim Davies. She is the woman who is citing her religious faith (she is a Baptist) as a reason for not carrying out her duties as a county clerk by refusing to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples.

Irony alert - despite her public statements where she states that marriage is an institution sanctified and given by the Almighty, she is currently on her fourth husband. So the Pope gets her in and apparently gives her Rosary beads and tells her to "stay strong"

Plus ca change....

Very disappointing - maybe PR is this guy's only strong point.

She became a Christian later in life.
He met her to re-enforce his very public message about the importance of the traditional family - there plenty of Catholic commentary out there on it

One would have thought he could have picked a better example than a right wing nutjob, who is a pawn for political opportunists, hucksters and snake oil salesmen like Huckabee and Cruz (who were falling over themselves to visit her in jail). The fact the she was "saved" after her four marriages does not save her from the sin of hypocrisy - as a sinner, surely she should have followed Jesus' teachings of judge not, lest ye be judged?

And if she was truly a principled Christian, she would have sacrificed her salary and standing in the community by resigning from her job, and stating exactly why she felt she had to do so. Instead she is trying to keep the gig, whilst still denying other Americans their constitutional rights. As Pope Francis should know, you can't be half crucified. He picked the wrong "martyr" to visit.

I don't know how she is a hypocrite. She admits her wrongdoings - she isn't championing adultery today, she isn't advocating marriage and re-marriage. Can't someone repent and be forgiven and move on?

The constitution allows religious freedom and calls for employers to make changes to a person's job or duties if it contradicts their religion. I agree she could quit but she was elected and the majority of people therefore supported her appointment knowing full well who she was and what she stood for. Someone else can issue the licenses (as has happened).

the Pope is giving the message that you dont want to hear. He is all for traditional marriage. He is all for loving everyone and calling everyone out of their sin.

Cool.

If we all judge it just right, will our deathbeds suffice?

[easytiger95]

The point is she ran for a federal mandated office in a country with a secular constitution and is now calling foul that the constitution has been upheld. Remember there was no amendment to the constitution. Gay marriage was simple held to be allowable under the constitution.

As for hypocrisy, it is hypocritical for someone with three failed marriages to lecture others on the sanctity or not of their unions, no matter whether she is a different person or not, saved or not, Tea Partier or not. It is the very essence of the sin of hypocrisy, and unlike Jesus, who tried to understand the sinner, she is simply judging and punishing those who hold a different view of the secular institution of marriage. There was an honorable and religiously consistent way for her to make her protest and she chose not to do so. No one would make any mention of her previous history if she did not persist in examining the mote in her neighbours eye - another no no in biblical terms.

The citizens of America should not have to rely on "someone else" issuing licenses rather then the elected mandated official. It may surprise you but the way democracy works is when you are elected you represent your entire constituency, not just the part that voted for you, especially if you are in an administrative, non legislative role. You'd have to wonder what the reaction would be if she took the same course because she was a Muslim and her faith forbade it?

You'll excuse me if I tell you I'll speak for myself on what I interpret the Pope's message to be. I don't consider homosexuality to be a sin, and according to reports from the Vatican, neither does a fairly substantial portion of the Curia. Ironic, no?