All Ireland Gold Dublin v Armagh

[Mourne Rover]

As a bit of advance warning, the TG4 All Ireland Gold offering this coming Wednesday night(January 31, 11.35pm) is Dublin v Armagh. According to the Sky schedule, it is from 1997. I suspect they are 20 years out and I am absolutely certain that the best Ulster team on view that day was Down minors - Pat Donnan, Paddy O'Rourke, John McCartan, ET McGivern coming off the bench and all the rest. Unfortunately, the tv coverage will probably concentrate on all those goals hitting the Armagh net.

[Dubh driocht]

Did Meath have any big names that day ?Ambrose was on the Down team also.Armagh had great support but Jimmy Keaveney had a field day.

[Tony Fearon]

The irony here was that Down shouldn't even have been in that AI Final, it should  have been Armagh.The principle reasons Down defeated Armagh in the replayed Ulster Final that year were.

1.John Corvan's total anonymity during both games, when ten minutes from him in either game would have saw Armagh ease to victory.

2.A shite referee in the replay at Castleblaney by the name of Mc Cabe, from Tyrone if memory serves me right.

[ziggysego]

Armagh should have won because normally they play better? Is that what you're getting at?

Plus, there was a Tyrone ref? Jesus Tony, get a grip of yourself.

[Tony Fearon]

Ziggy,as any of the Harps lads will tell you, Corvan was a class apart and ten minutes from him in either that year's drawn Ulster Final or replay would have been sufficient to see off an overrated Down side.

Armagh led at half time in the replay and it took a few dodgy frees awarded by the referee to see Down through, and we didn't have the luxury of big Donnan carrying the ball over his own line for a bonus goal either .

[ziggysego]

But he failed on the day, so you can hardly berated Down for that.

[Mourne Rover]

In fairness to Tony - a phrase seldom seen on this board - most Down supporters would accept that we were lucky to get a second chance in the Ulster minor final of 1977. We were three points down at half-time in the replay and eventually won by three (0-11 to 1-6), so it was reasonably conclusive in the end. However, Tony is as amusing as ever when he talks about an `over-rated' Down side. Down won the North-East and Ulster minor leagues that year, as well as the overall Ulster and All Ireland titles. Apart from the Armagh games, no one got within seven points of us in the championship. Practically the same team won the All Ireland u21 two years later, and by my reckoning 12 members of the squad went on to play senior football for Down. As for Tony's disenguous dig about Pat Donnan, a player with all Ireland winners medals at three different levels, everyone knows the ball was nowhere near the line in the 1986 Ulster final. The only person who disagreed was one Michael Greenan - I rest my case.

[armaghniac]

He told me Down men never supported Armagh. EVER. Best advice any Down man could give his son. Advice I have always adhered to.

Begrudgery runs in families so. Note that Down's minor success in 1977 was cheered on by the large Armagh support present.

[Tony Fearon]

Ah I have to admit a ceratian interest here. My late brother was right full back on that Armagh minor side and in fairness the winners of that Ulster Final were practical certainties to go on and win the All Ireland, as they were by some distance the best teams in Ireland that year. But for many Armagh fans (and a lot of his teammates), Corvan's anonymity was a sore point as I think even Down supporters would acknowledge that he was the Martin Clarke of his generation but unlike Clarke Johnny only played when the mood took him and unfortunately it didn't take him in either of these  games. Also Down had a master tactician in Sean O'Neill on the sideline as well

It is true that all of Armagh supported Down in the AI Minor Final in 1977, as they did in 1991 and 1994.Surely the Down hordes were not seriously so insecure as to begrudge us a potential win against Dublin of all people?

[Donagh]

The irony here was that Down shouldn't even have been in that AI Final, it should  have been Armagh.The principle reasons Down defeated Armagh in the replayed Ulster Final that year were.

1.John Corvan's total anonymity during both games, when ten minutes from him in either game would have saw Armagh ease to victory.

2.A shite referee in the replay at Castleblaney by the name of Mc Cabe, from Tyrone if memory serves me right.

Edit: Just realised he subsequently owned up to the 'family interest' in that Armagh minor team.

[never kickt a ball]

Joe was a great man and an excellent player too. Queen's were 7/8 points up in that game and nearly blew it. It went to extra time didn't it?

[Orior]

This Armagh/Tyrone thing is only a recent phenomenon as Tyrone have enjoyed some success at AI level.

Correct.

[Mourne Rover]

I didn't know that Corvan was a hurler, but he was definitely an outstanding footballer. I first came across him in an Loch an Iuir final in the early 70s, and he was the difference between his side winning and losing. He was unlucky to play for Armagh at a time when they had a decent team which seemed to specialise in losing Ulster and National League finals. He also played Irish League soccer for Newry Town, and I think he ended up in Australia.

Take Your Points is quite right to mention that Armagh always had a much bigger rivalry with Down than Tyrone until comparatively recently. It's about time that Down started to revive it, but we have a bit of work to do. I believe that Armagh have played 19 senior championship games at Croke Park over the last eight years, while Down's total is zero. Although a Down/Armagh Ulster final this summer is not out of the question, Ross will probably be thinking of 2008 rather than 2007.

[Red Nose Red Hand]

As for Tony's disenguous dig about Pat Donnan, a player with all Ireland winners medals at three different levels, everyone knows the ball was nowhere near the line in the 1986 Ulster final. The only person who disagreed was one Michael Greenan - I rest my case.

As a Tyrone man, I can vouch for that. I was perfectly placed to view it and it was never over the line - his decision then was like his decision to come out with the crap he's just done about opening Croke Park while on the junket to Dubai, it was plain daft.