The OFFICIAL Liverpool FC thread - Arne to Slot right in?

[AZOffaly]

It's more like the latter. FSG have a policy which is more about identifying young talent with the right attributes, and signing them for low fees and low wages. They will, and have in Boston, splash out on the occasional big money signing, but Coutinho, Sterling, Ibe, Can, Sturridge, Moreno, Sahko and the like are more in line with the policy than Suarez or any other big signing they might make. For that reason I'd be shocked if someone like Ibrahimovic ended up at Anfield because he would be a series of 'No' responses against the checklist.

To be honest, there's a lot to like about that approach, but in todays Success Now or f**k Off world, and with the notoriously volatile transfer market where you can quickly lose those young lads you've cultivated, you have to be able to fire the big guns every so often. Supplementing that policy with 2 or 3 genuine world class players brought in as the finished product would probably be the ideal.

Now FSG would probably turn to the committee and Rodgers and say, ok, but what about all that money spent on Lovren, Lallana and Ballotelli? That's almost 70 million right there. Where's the return on those guys? Contrast with the smaller investment on the likes of Can, Sterling, Ibe, Sturridge and Coutinho, versus the productivity and potential value and they'll be thinking f**k this lark of spending big money on players.

[Bingo]

Was a very poor display yesterday, from the start they just looked like a team who didn't want it as much as the opposition and they expected to win. And that's a shocking indictment of a team in a FA cup semi final.

All the fanfare about Gerrard leaving and how the club had let him down by not keeping him should be put to bed after yesterday, as if it was needed to. He was miles off the pace and constantly slowed the game down with his two touches and then 60 yard pass out wide. It also meant that Henderson was once again shifted from his best position. At best he could have made an impact from the bench as we had nothing there.

Sterling. Nothing to be said, he didn't do anything of note bar maybe pull out of a challenge or two.

Biggest miss was Lucas yesterday. There is nobody in the squad near his level to do what he does. I've no doubt he'd have spotted the runs for at least the first goal yesterday and he may well have stopped the second goal much earlier in the Villa attack.

As for Rodgers. I just don't know. It seems like two steps forward and then two back at times. Season hasn't been good but is it a sackable season? I don't know. I think he is very much isolated from the owners in terms of what he would like to be doing and what he has to do. They have very much a different outlook and he tows the party line to an extent. Its clear that there is a very limited structure above him and been an awful lot of change in personal at the academy and executive level since FSG came in.

The biggest thing for me is that FSG would go and replace Rodgers with another Rodgers. Someone with potential, who'll play the game and accept the structure. And i'd not expect them to look to someone who will get their backs up and cause division, we've had enough of that. But it would have to be someone who has a track record of winning at top level, someone who will be strong, a leader and maybe not so nice. Do I think they would after such a person, I very much doubt it. 

[AZOffaly]

Was a very poor display yesterday, from the start they just looked like a team who didn't want it as much as the opposition and they expected to win. And that's a shocking indictment of a team in a FA cup semi final.

Agree, and that's been a few 'big games' this season. United and Arsenal recently as well. That, more than anything else, would worry me if I were Rodgers.

All the fanfare about Gerrard leaving and how the club had let him down by not keeping him should be put to bed after yesterday, as if it was needed to. He was miles off the pace and constantly slowed the game down with his two touches and then 60 yard pass out wide. It also meant that Henderson was once again shifted from his best position. At best he could have made an impact from the bench as we had nothing there.

Agree. Gerrard has been brilliant for Liverpool. Inspirational. But this season has been a season too far and it's painful looking at it. The Villa second goal yesterday came directly from him not being able (or willing) to go with the run of Delph.

Sterling. Nothing to be said, he didn't do anything of note bar maybe pull out of a challenge or two.

Well, he slipped in Coutinho nicely in fairness, but in general he has been disappointing for the last couple of months. In fairness to him he is 20, but it shows the stupidity of paying crazy money for a young lad, any young lad. If Liverpool got 50 million for him, and were able to buy a proper 50 million replacement, I'd be all for it. I think Ibe may be just as good at least. Although he seems to be on the crack pipe too

Biggest miss was Lucas yesterday. There is nobody in the squad near his level to do what he does. I've no doubt he'd have spotted the runs for at least the first goal yesterday and he may well have stopped the second goal much earlier in the Villa attack.

Again, agreed, but I think playing Gerrard compounded the problem. I think I'd have tried to be brave yesterday and played Can in midfield and played Toure at the back, or even went 4-1-2-1-2.

As for Rodgers. I just don't know. It seems like two steps forward and then two back at times. Season hasn't been good but is it a sackable season? I don't know. I think he is very much isolated from the owners in terms of what he would like to be doing and what he has to do. They have very much a different outlook and he tows the party line to an extent. Its clear that there is a very limited structure above him and been an awful lot of change in personal at the academy and executive level since FSG came in.

The biggest thing for me is that FSG would go and replace Rodgers with another Rodgers. Someone with potential, who'll play the game and accept the structure. And i'd not expect them to look to someone who will get their backs up and cause division, we've had enough of that. But it would have to be someone who has a track record of winning at top level, someone who will be strong, a leader and maybe not so nice. Do I think they would after such a person, I very much doubt it.

I don't think Rodgers has done enough to be sacked. I think he is a good coach. I think the transfer policy has inherent flaws which we have to either live with, or start pressuring FSG to put big money into big players. Rodgers is a good coach to develop players but he is a poor performer in the media, which whether we like it or not, can cause major issues and distractions for the team. The best way to negate the media is to win trophies, and unfortunately that's not happened for him.

FSG have a big call to make. Do they trust him to continue to improve the players, and maybe throw a few extra top players at him and gamble that he will win trophies with those players as well as continuing the buy low sell high approach? Or do they decide to start again (as they did ruthlessly in Boston) with the same strategy but a different manager that they feel can take the extra step without having to buy big names?

I'd prefer the former, but I wouldn't be surprised with the latter. Finishing outside the top 4 (and possibly outside the top 6) will be a big blow to the project, so they'll have to either stick or twist. Do they have the courage of their convictions?

The new capacity will be ready in 2016-2017 I think, but can they wait until then, treading water, before they splash out on top players, or will they even do that then?

I like the idea of building with youth, but if you are going to lose them as they reach a certain level, then you might as well either forget trying to win trophies (which is unacceptable) or else accept you are going to have to spend more money than you want to keep them, and actually supplement them with really top players to bring you over the edge.

[laoislad]

It was the lack of fight that was most depressing yesterday.

Whatever about missing Suarez's goals,it's his will to win and never say die attitude that they are missing the most imo.
Can you imagine him strolling around yesterday like some were when a goal down with 15 mins to go in a Cup semi Final.?
You don't even need to be world class for that, Kuyt had it in spades also for example.
Gerrard use to have it and maybe still does but he just can't carry it off anymore.
You need those sort of players in your team when the going gets tough and it doesn't look like Liverpool have any, certainly not yesterday anyway.
I knew it was all over when I saw Glen Johnson coming on.

Villa wanted it far more and best of luck to them. It be great to see the likes of Shay Given win a medal at this stage in his career.

[Walter Cronc]

It's more like the latter. FSG have a policy which is more about identifying young talent with the right attributes, and signing them for low fees and low wages. They will, and have in Boston, splash out on the occasional big money signing, but Coutinho, Sterling, Ibe, Can, Sturridge, Moreno, Sahko and the like are more in line with the policy than Suarez or any other big signing they might make. For that reason I'd be shocked if someone like Ibrahimovic ended up at Anfield because he would be a series of 'No' responses against the checklist.

To be honest, there's a lot to like about that approach, but in todays Success Now or f**k Off world, and with the notoriously volatile transfer market where you can quickly lose those young lads you've cultivated, you have to be able to fire the big guns every so often. Supplementing that policy with 2 or 3 genuine world class players brought in as the finished product would probably be the ideal.

Now FSG would probably turn to the committee and Rodgers and say, ok, but what about all that money spent on Lovren, Lallana and Ballotelli? That's almost 70 million right there. Where's the return on those guys? Contrast with the smaller investment on the likes of Can, Sterling, Ibe, Sturridge and Coutinho, versus the productivity and potential value and they'll be thinking f**k this lark of spending big money on players.

Cheers AZ.

[AZOffaly]

By the way, I still think Dejan Lovren could be a decent, strong, centre back for Liverpool, but has a first season ever been summed up so appropriately as that last minute shot yesterday? Reminded me of Eddie Moroney's video. 'But no, he decides to BALLOON it out over the stand into the field beyont'.

Up there with the Aspas corner kick.

[heganboy]

Now FSG would probably turn to the committee and Rodgers and say, ok, but what about all that money spent on Lovren, Lallana and Ballotelli? That's almost 70 million right there. Where's the return on those guys?

AZ, whilst I agree the return hasn't been great- I would say that any expense there would be recouped

[AZOffaly]

Now FSG would probably turn to the committee and Rodgers and say, ok, but what about all that money spent on Lovren, Lallana and Ballotelli? That's almost 70 million right there. Where's the return on those guys?

AZ, whilst I agree the return hasn't been great- I would say that any expense there would be recouped

Ah yeah, you could get a few bob back for them, but at the end of the day you buy them to produce on the field. They might be thinking we can get that sort of performance from a young lad for 6 million.

[mb80b60]

Now FSG would probably turn to the committee and Rodgers and say, ok, but what about all that money spent on Lovren, Lallana and Ballotelli? That's almost 70 million right there. Where's the return on those guys?

AZ, whilst I agree the return hasn't been great- I would say that any expense there would be recouped

Surely all three have decreased in value given their performances this season?

[beer baron]

Now FSG would probably turn to the committee and Rodgers and say, ok, but what about all that money spent on Lovren, Lallana and Ballotelli? That's almost 70 million right there. Where's the return on those guys?

AZ, whilst I agree the return hasn't been great- I would say that any expense there would be recouped

You'd be looking at 50 million for the 3 i would say if you're lucky.

Surely all three have decreased in value given their performances this season?

[blewuporstuffed]

Lovren proably has taken the greatest hit in value.
Im sure you could still get 10m for mario
Probably 15-18m for Llanna, maybe 12-15 for Lovren

[Denn Forever]

Lovern seems to fit the Liverpool mold for defender.  e,g, Skirtel, Glen Johnson, Triora

Balotelli-  worth a punt.  Hasn't worked.  Has the potential to be good if he didn't believe the Hype about himself.

Isn't Lallana an England international?

[brokencrossbar1]

Now FSG would probably turn to the committee and Rodgers and say, ok, but what about all that money spent on Lovren, Lallana and Ballotelli? That's almost 70 million right there. Where's the return on those guys?

AZ, whilst I agree the return hasn't been great- I would say that any expense there would be recouped

Surely all three have decreased in value given their performances this season?

Balo definitely yes but you will still get a team to pay in or around £10m for him,  Lovern and Lallana yes but they had a big over payment for buying locally.  I think both will improve as they are good players,  particularly Lallana and I reckon with a full pre-season and no International games then he will be a much better player in the new season.  At the time Henderson was over priced at £16m but in hindsight it was a pretty good deal for a player who will be the mainstay in MF for years if he so desires. 

The reality is that this season has been a huge disappointment made worse by a unrealistic expectation among many of the fans following an unexpectedly great season last year.  There will need to be investment for the 'now' in the summer.  1 quality CB, 1 quality DMF, 1 quality striker.  If Sterling goes then 1 quality wide forward to compliment Origi returning from loan.  A solid second keeper is needed, someone in the mould of Shay Given in terms of experience and expectations but not Shay Given!!! Do we need a top class RB?  I believe in Jon Flanagan in that role.  I think he is a cracking old fashioned defender and in a back 4 he and Moreno would really work I think.  I feel for Manquilo as he looked a great option early on but hasn't had the chance with the move to 3 CBs.  Maybe with a move back to 4-3-3,  which I think they should do, then he and Flanagan would be sufficient for the RB cover.  The likes of Wisdom won't make it so he will move on as well. Sakho, Skertl, Lovern will be there for the CB and maybe Ilori or Kolo.  Really think a proper top right sided defender is needed.    Who I don't know but definitely one needed.  Can can move into MF to replace the place SG is filling but there is another one needed.  It's so f**king frustrating and definitely 2 forward and 2 back at the minute.

[Armamike]

Lovern seems to fit the Liverpool mold for defender.  e,g, Skirtel, Glen Johnson, Triora

Balotelli-  worth a punt.  Hasn't worked.  Has the potential to be good if he didn't believe the Hype about himself.

Isn't Lallana an England international?

Would be confident that Lovren, Lallana and Moreno will be fine. Lallana has done quite well, but has had a frustrating season injury wise.  The clattering by Jones well and truly wrecked any momentum he was picking up. 

Agree with LaoisLad on the lack of fight. The slowness of the buildup and the lack of intensity over a few critical games in the past few weeks has been notable.  Not enough leaders in that team.

[AZOffaly]

The Telegraph lists the signings since Rodgers has arrived at Liverpool. Far too many misses than hits.

Their ratings first, mine second.

Fabio Borini £10.4m from Roma. MISS - (Miss. A workaday journeyman. Fine for a lower end Premier League Team or Championship Team. Not good enough for a team supposedly looking to challenge for CL football).
Joe Allen £15m from Swansea. HIT - (I think Hit is generous here. I'm not willing to call him a Miss either, but he's average at best. He can do a job when you are looking for someone to keep possession and pass it sideways, but he is not incisive, nor a particularly good tackler and he doesn't score enough. I'd say he's a 'Meh').
Oussama Assaidi £3m from Herenveen. MISS - (Miss, and a pretty big waste of time.)
Nuri Sahin LOAN from Real Madrid. MISS - (Miss. He never looked like he wanted to be at Anfield and was painfully slow).
Samed Yesil £1m from Leverkusen. MISS - (I think this is harsh. He's been injured and cost just 1 million. Apparently he is one of the best finishers in the ranks, so he may yet be a hit.)
Daniel Sturridge £12m from Chelsea. HIT - (Obviously a Hit for that money, but I'm not his #1 fan I have to say. I think he's a bit lazy and his injury prone body is a joke at this stage. I think he's proven one thing this year, and that is he cannot be relied upon to be your #1 striker, and that is what we feared even before he got crocked the first time.)
Philippe Coutinho £8.5m from Inter. HIT - (Again, for that money obviously a hit and someone who has improved under Rodgers. Still developing and has been too easy to mark out of games at some stages.)
Luis Alberto £6m from Sevilla. MISS - (Undoubted Miss. Waste of a jersey).
Iago Aspas £7m from Celta Vigo. MISS - (Worse than Alberto. Waste of a pair of socks).
Simon Mignolet £9m from Sunderland. HIT - (Overall I think he's been reasonable. A good shot stopper, but still very dodgy under pressure and I sense he doesn't inspire his defenders. Still overall he's been good, but is he better than Reina?)
Kolo Toure Free from Man City. MISS. - (Hard to be a Miss when you are a free transfer, but he's close to it. Some calamitous errors from Kolo, but in fairness he's had some decent games as well. I'd say he's been another 'Meh' and a Miss if he was supposed to be a calming influence on a defence that has looked like a clowder* of scared cats at times.
Ally Cissokho LOAN from Valencia. MISS (Miss. Big, Athletic, Useless.)
Mamadou Sakho £15m from PSG. JURY STILL OUT (Almost a Hit from me. Certainly the potential for it. At times he looks like the centre back of the future. At other times he looks like a cartoon character trying to run around and catch the good china before it hits the ground. Can occasionally pass the ball like he hates it personally. All in all, worth persevering with and hoping Rodgers can make him more comfortable.
Tiago Ilori £7m from Sporting Lisbon. MISS (Hard to know. We haven't seen him enough to be able to call it either way, but apparently he has played well at times on his loan spell. I suppose he'd have to be a miss at this stage, but if he got a chance, who knows?)
Victor Moses LOAN from Chelsea. MISS (Miss is right. And that's what he did a lot of. Dire and looked like he didn't give a shite).
Rickie Lambert £4.5m from Southampton. MISS (Yeah, a Miss unfortunately. It was a puzzling signing in the first place, and it hasn't worked out at all. He tries, but he's just too one paced to play in the way Liverpool need. He has at times held the ball up and laid it off well, but that's not Liverpool's preferred method of attacking, and so he's been a bit of a fish out of water.)
Adam Lallana, £25m from Southampton. MISS (I'm more reluctant to call him a Miss yet. He's had injuries but has looked tidy in some other games. Can't be called a Hit by any means, but maybe he's a 'Jury is still out' candidate).
Emre Can, £9m from Bayer Leverkusen. HIT ( A hit, and going to be a fine player I suspect. Still a bit raw and cavalier at times which has hurt on some occasions, but for his drive and will to bomb forward he will need to be a central plank next season, and hopefully in midfield rather than shoehorned into a back 3.)
Lazer Markovic £20m from Benfica. MISS ( I had to look twice at the price there. 20 million? Allegedly Fast but I haven't really seen him skin anyone. Not exactly direct either. Cowardly as the Lion in Oz as well. He went through a brief purple patch there at wing back for a while, but he's been a let down in his first season. Another that may come on under Rodgers, and it's too soon to let him go, but he's been a miss so far).
Dejan Lovren £20m from Southampton. MISS (Another whose first season has been a huge miss, but one I feel has potential to settle and become a decent contributor. He's got the physical attributes, but he suffered more than anyone else from the uncertainty in defence when he joined. He was looked at as the one who would settle it all down, but he looked more spooked than any of them. It continues to the present time, witness his lucky 'challenge' against Newcastle, and nearly breaking Can's ankle in the same game as he leapt around like a skittish colt in a horsebox for the first time. A miss so far, but if he settles he could be a hit yet).
Alberto Moreno. £12m from Sevilla. MISS I think this is a little harsh. I think he's found the premier league faster and more hectic than he's used to, and has been caught out at the back post a lot on crosses from the other side. Defensive lapses have not been made up for by his attacking, but he is decent going forward. He's a better version of Glen Johnson, but needs to improve defensively if he is to be a hit).
Javier Manquillo. LOAN from Athletico Madrid. MISS - (Harsh, but this is going to be a miss. I don't think he's done enough to command a full time move, and while he has a certain amount of promise, he's also been suspect defensively and doesn't get forward as well as Moreno. I'd say he'll be gone in the summer)
Mario Ballotelli. £16m from Milan. MISS - (He was a gamble, and it looks like a gamble that has failed. Not nearly as bad as the English media like to pretend, but not good enough for a player of his ability. Whether his demeanour and surliness and laziness annoy his teammates is a moot point, but I'm sure a few autobiographies in the future might refer to him! The thing is all he had to do was try hard. When he did that the Kop stood and applauded him. They really wanted him to succeed, but he didn't do it often enough, and then his 'injury' and refusal to travel are the kind of thing that burn bridges. Gone I'd say, and another miss).

Fairly depressing reading for the Transfer Committtee.




* Clowder is correct for a group of cats. You live and learn.