Ungrateful FAI Delaney

[Bord na Mona man]

By all accounts the FAI are the ones missing their tickets sales targets for the Aviva, as the prices are sky high.
Corporate Ireland doesn't seem greatly wowed at the prospect of a string of meaningless friendlies (that only the ROI seem to take seriously) and qualifier games mostly against numpties.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fai-finances-cast-shadow-over-stadium-1873260.html

Since there is no major debt on Croke Park, the GAA aren't under the same pressure to make ticket sales.
The GAA exceeded all Croke Park ticket sales expectations back in 1993 when the country wasn't flush, so I'd be surprised if there is a capitulation now.

On the Croke Park ticket prices - the FAI and IRFU all added on much more than the CP rental premium onto their ticket prices. I'm sure they were aware they'd the average GAA bashing Joe would naturally blame the GAA for the price increase.
The GAA rental figure was 26% of gate receipts. Only slightly above the accepted stadium benchmark range of 22%.
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2006/01/22/story11181.asp

Prices won't be dropping back in the Aviva...but sure that's the GAA's fault! 

[antoinse]

It is time you stopped "dreaming" and woke up. The GAA is now effectively begging the FAI and IRFU to stage more games at Croker, even after they move into their new stadium.

Incidentally the term "begging" implies petitioning goods or services for free, and thats certainly not what the IRFU and FAI got Croke Park for.

I do not agree with the vast majority of what you have said but if you change 'begging ' to 'prostituting' (the use of a skill or ability in a way that is considered unworthy, usually for financial gain) then we have grounds for negotiations to commence

[T Fearon]

I'm not blaming the GAA, they took advantage of a situation and made a lot of money in the process. The deal with the IRFU and FAI was simply a business deal and its laughable to suggest that the FAI are beggars etc. They got a service and paid handsomely for it.

No I don't expect the ticket prices at Aviva to revert to their Lansdowne levels or anything like it, but how much have GAA tickets inflated in the same period?

But the fact remains here that it is the GAA who are now bpleading with the FAI and IRFU to consider still using Croke Park and it is inevitable that the corporate facilities available at the Aviva will impact seriously on Croke Park.

[Onlooker]

Indiana, with the current popularity of rugby and soccer reviving, I'd say when a lot of the corporate deals run out at Croker the box owners will move swiftly to the Aviva.

Hard to judge what size of stadium is adequate given capital and maintenance costs. Aviva is arguably too small then again by the same argument Croker is too large, given that the only two GAA fixtures guaranteed to fill it annually are the two All Ireland Finals, and by all accounts it can't be opened at all without losing money unless a minimum crowd of 35,000 or so is in attendance.

I think the GAA should be open to criticism for the mistakes and incompetency just as the FAI is continually

What clown told you that Croke Park can't be opened without losing money unless there is a crowd of 35,000?.  The eejit that told you that must have been drunk or else he was winding you up.

[T Fearon]

I thought it was common knowledge that unless there was a substantial 5 figure attendance,Croke Park loses money? In any event this whole debate has been brought about by the GAA petitioning soccer and rugby to continue using Croker, indicating that they covet the rental income, and Delaney politely pointing out that the GAA had ruled out any prospect of a shared national sports stadium (which is effectively what they are now seeking), back in the mid to late 90s, when the FAI and IRFU were quite willing to embrace this scenario?

[INDIANA]

Indiana, with the current popularity of rugby and soccer reviving, I'd say when a lot of the corporate deals run out at Croker the box owners will move swiftly to the Aviva.

Hard to judge what size of stadium is adequate given capital and maintenance costs. Aviva is arguably too small then again by the same argument Croker is too large, given that the only two GAA fixtures guaranteed to fill it annually are the two All Ireland Finals, and by all accounts it can't be opened at all without losing money unless a minimum crowd of 35,000 or so is in attendance.

I think the GAA should be open to criticism for the mistakes and incompetency just as the FAI is continually

I've spoken to a lot of rugby people on this. i follow the game myself. And they were delighted having internationals in Croker. Because they could get tickets. they are routinely pissed off now that they have no chance of getting a ticket for the Aviva with the old boys network than dominates the allocation of rugby tickets for games. It is a massive own goal building a stadium of that size especially for rugby. The D4 networks will be back in vogue and only a small enclave around Kielys will be guaranteed tickets. Because to make up the shortfall for the loss in revenue they will have to charge extotionate prices for tickets which only the aristocrats will play in a recession.

The breakeven point in Croker is 35,000 for people's info. Personally i'd prefer to have a stadium too big then too small where it is the national flagship stadium for a particular code. You'd struggle to attract other events to the Aviva with 50,000. Thats smaller than some of the stadiums in the Africans Nations Cup.

The Gaa shouldn't be immune to criticism I agree. But the FAI and IRFU have made a balls of this one in my opinion. I think you'll find the IRFU would be happy to ditch the FAI at this stage.

[T Fearon]

From all of this it is now obvious that developing Croke Park as the national sports stadium (as it effectively has been for the last three years) 10 or 15 years ago was the most sensible route and the GAA stopped this at the time, and Delaney is only pointing this out.

PS How many genuine fans can't get tckets for All Ireland Football or Hurling finals? This is a pain for all sports fans regardless of stadium size.

[INDIANA]

From all of this it is now obvious that developing Croke Park as the national sports stadium (as it effectively has been for the last three years) 10 or 15 years ago was the most sensible route and the GAA stopped this at the time, and Delaney is only pointing this out.

PS How many genuine fans can't get tckets for All Ireland Football or Hurling finals? This is a pain for all sports fans regardless of stadium size.

Not true. The FAI decided they didn't to be part of a National Stadium in the late 80's and pulled out of it because they didn't nee dus. So delaney is talking crap and he knows it. He's under huge pressure because he can't sell the corporate boxes and this shows how much under pressure he is.

It is but 38,500 vs 70,000 for public tickets. I know which one I'd fancy my chances of getting a ticket for.

[T Fearon]

Sorry but the last attempt to forge a consensus for a national stadium was in the late 9s and the GAA wouldn't play ball. Delaney is only responding on this occasion to overtures from the GAA to mainatin using Croker for soccer games.

I suppose we are where we are, no doubt all three bodies will survive, but rugby and soccer internationals will for the most part bsell out at the New AQviva and the GAA will lose out in terms of the three year aqdditional revenue stream it enjoyed, and GAA followers will be the only losers in terms of increased ticket prices to compensate and inevitable development reduction

[Bord na Mona man]

Sorry but the last attempt to forge a consensus for a national stadium was in the late 9s and the GAA wouldn't play ball. Delaney is only responding on this occasion to overtures from the GAA to mainatin using Croker for soccer games.

Nonsense.
As Liam Mulvihil mentioned in his (circa) 2005 annual report, in the early 90s the GAA were the only organised willing to get on board when the government proposed national stadium.

In the late 90s, the FAI were the ones who wouldn't play ball when the National Stadium project came back on the agenda. Instead pushing ahead with the doomed Arena/Eircom Park project. It took much manoeuvring and pay offs from Bertie Ahern to get them on board for the Bertie Bowl alternative.
The GAA actually indicated a luke warm willingness to play the occasional game in the proposed Abbotstown venue, even though the Croke Park redeveloped was almost done.

[T Fearon]

The GAA are not begging, they are simply pleading for an extension of a business deal.Neither were the FAI and IRFU begging when they entered into a business arrangement to hire Croke Park.

Ticket prices were inflated mostly due to the rental charge and partly due to an opportunistic ploy to increase revenue. Nowadays GAA,IRFU and FAI treat patrons as customers.

The FAI is no more competent or incompetent than the GAA and some people need to divest themselves of an irrational hatred of soccer and its governing body in Ireland

[T Fearon]

The GAA never ever envisioned the development of Croke Park as a national stadium, which was the government's plan, and half of the rednecks had to be overcome before consent was given to rent Croke Park out.

Note also it is the GAA who are now crying not the FAI or IRFU

[Bord na Mona man]

The GAA never ever envisioned the development of Croke Park as a national stadium, which was the government's plan, and half of the rednecks had to be overcome before consent was given to rent Croke Park out.

Note also it is the GAA who are now crying not the FAI or IRFU

Where are the GAA crying?

You need to divest yourself of you irrational need to blame the GAA for the failings of Irish soccer.

[AZOffaly]

Also, I thought the 35,000 figure was based on opening the whole of Croker, ie all sections, upper and lower decks of the stands, the hill etc etc. Goes back to policing, stewarding, catering etc etc.

When the upper decks are closed, the break even point goes down. At least that was the impression I got.

[Tyrone Dreamer]

The GAA are not begging, they are simply pleading for an extension of a business deal.Neither were the FAI and IRFU begging when they entered into a business arrangement to hire Croke Park.

Ticket prices were inflated mostly due to the rental charge and partly due to an opportunistic ploy to increase revenue. Nowadays GAA,IRFU and FAI treat patrons as customers.

The FAI is no more competent or incompetent than the GAA and some people need to divest themselves of an irrational hatred of soccer and its governing body in Ireland

You said earlier the gaa were begging, make your mind up. In relation to the ticket prices the fact that the FAI made more profit out of games in Croke Park than they did in Landsdowne surely means that it was their fault that the ticket prices went up. They would have charged the same amount no matter what the rental was to make maximum revenue.