Antrim Football Thread

[bannside]

I'm a bit disappointed that some here seem to be casting adverse judgement on the achievement of HTCs development from a Grade B participant to a Grade A contender. Why can't we just accept that they made this an important aspect of their school ethos and worked harder to make this happen. (As a shining light on what could be done in Antrim schools if they had any inclination).

And no I'm not talking about winning McRorys, just get competitive in grades they are completing in first of all and go from there.

Here's a stat for anyone still interested in this discussion. No less than 11 of the team who started in Sunday's final for HTC began their education there as first years and have completed 7 years at the school. That's different to what some posters here are attempting to convey.

[Flanker]

I'm a bit disappointed that some here seem to be casting adverse judgement on the achievement of HTCs development from a Grade B participant to a Grade A contender. Why can't we just accept that they made this an important aspect of their school ethos and worked harder to make this happen. (As a shining light on what could be done in Antrim schools if they had any inclination).

And no I'm not talking about winning McRorys, just get competitive in grades they are completing in first of all and go from there.

Here's a stat for anyone still interested in this discussion. No less than 11 of the team who started in Sunday's final for HTC began their education there as first years and have completed 7 years at the school. That's different to what some posters here are attempting to convey.

Any idea if this was part of a Tyrone Strategic objective to help development in that area or was it purely a HTC or individuals within HTC driven initiative.

Either way it is going to make Tyrone as a county stronger in the medium to longer term 100+ guys over the 3 schools competing @ Grade A per annum

We might have 10-15 across 3 schools

[bannside]

My guess is that their strong GAA ethos is led from the board of directors and school principal downward, who see consistent success on the GAA front as the kind of school parents want to send their kids to. Especially the ones who's children have good potential to be part of successful squads. Of course in Tyrone where everyone is immersed in GAA culture it is easier to implement. Success breeds success and all that.....

You do know that the more pupils in the school, the more revenue it receives from authorities. So the school wins on two fronts.

Schoolteachers applying for jobs with a prominent GAA CV, or commit to being part of the school GAA ethos may be seen as "desireable" criteria.

Ulster Colleges are full of them. Malachy O Rourke, Jody Gormley, Sean Martin Lockhart, Kevin Brady etc.

Are Antrim schools thinking along the same lines?

[JimStynes]

Our schools don't have a shortage of experienced GAA staff, they have a shortage of quality players going into them.
Our schools aren't competitive for the same reason our county isn't competitive. Our clubs are not producing good players in the same quantities as the clubs in counties around us.

I know our players significantly improve when they go to St. Ronan's and make the school team. We have good enough players who go to Lismore (the other local secondary school) and they definitely don't kick on like the lads who go to St. Ronan's. There are enough good footballers in Belfast who could be brought on significantly if things changed in those schools. It just takes one school to take the lead in being the main school.

[bannside]

Are the schools that (as you say) don't have a shortage of GAA staff doing enough to get them out on the pitches three days a week after school?

The 11 or 12 year old going into a school in Cookstown or Magherafelt isn't that far ahead of many of their peers going into schools in Antrim. I contend it's what happens after that makes the biggest difference.

Eg in Magherafelt or Cookstown they work harder at it. GAA matters more.

As I said previously, many parents will decide to send their child to a school where they know their 7 year player development programme will enhance their child's ability, not deter it.

[Spike]

Are the schools that (as you say) don't have a shortage of GAA staff doing enough to get them out on the pitches three days a week after school?

The 11 or 12 year old going into a school in Cookstown or Magherafelt isn't that far ahead of many of their peers going into schools in Antrim. I contend it's what happens after that makes the biggest difference.

Eg in Magherafelt or Cookstown they work harder at it. GAA matters more.

As I said previously, many parents will decide to send their child to a school where they know their 7 year player development programme will enhance their child's ability, not deter it.

Well said BS.  Sometimes we have to hold our hands up and admit that we don't work hard enough collectively in Antrim.  Small numbers taking all the burden.  Making the schools work means hard work for slow rewards which doesn't suit the people wanting immediate success.    We are too far behind for immediate success.   

JimStynes made a good point also about the local schools.  We have had plenty of kids of equal talent go to Derry schools and others go to Antrim Schools.  Vast vast majority who attended the Derry schools kicked on further.  Not a coincidence.

One glance through the teamsheets of our two strongest county teams Cargin and Creggan, knowing which of those players attended schools in Derry,  will tell you all you need to know about the power of schools football.   

[JimStynes]

If there was an A tournament on the first day of Year 8, the Antrim schools would take a pasting. There's just no 2 ways about that.

Not if all the good footballers from year 8 went to the same 1 or 2 schools. It wouldn't even enter people's heads in Belfast to send their child to a school that is good at GAA. I've taught in enough schools that feed into Belfast schools to know that it's not even a discussion. Go to Newry, South Derry etc and the football families will be sending them to the football school!

[bannside]

My position on Antrim schools hasn't changed one iota. They seem either unable or unwilling to improve their standing in this sector. Either way, unless the county steps in and offers some form of mediation/motivation/support structure we will be having this same conversation in 20 years.

If Gaelfast does its job promoting a higher level of interest and participation level in primary schools, and clubs start pulling their weight at meaningful juvenile development, I'm confident a better player entering year 8 will emerge.

It's what happens after that that still greatly worries me!

[Flanker]

If there was an A tournament on the first day of Year 8, the Antrim schools would take a pasting. There's just no 2 ways about that.

I think we would all agree on this but none of our schools are  competing in A. What most people! on here believe and are looking for is to be competitive @ the level they are at... B, C or lower. Any have decent coach/coaches in a reasonable environment should be able to improve guys over a 7 year period. Make average players into good players Good into V Good at their level. I see very little evidence of this. As Spike indicated look at Creggan & Cargin (you could add Aghagallon). Compare the improvement in their players from year 8 that have gone to schools with good coaching setups.
The coaches in those schools are competitive and proud guys who would not be happy unless they were maximising the talent that they have at their disposal. You don't have to be an A player to be developed and moulded into a better player

[imtommygunn]

I honestly think a lot of them benefited greatly from sigerson football. (Of course they had to be good enough in the first place to get on teams mind you but I always thought that was a big help).

[rogercasement]

Still talking about schools lads?? Only thing I'll say is my young fella went to pg1 primary school, cleared everything in sw antrim, which was poor quality 2 blitzes and an indoor thing. Were invited to Maghera feeder schools blitz and got tanked, talking to other parents in derry schools kids playing football 3 teams a week in school with one match. Nowhere near same level here.

[bannside]

Take that example you have just provided RC in Derry schools. If you make the panel in first year, train or play football 3 hours every week - multiply by 40 weeks a year - multiply by 7 years, equates to 840 hours practising skills, ball in hand, learning your craft.

That's a lot of player development that lads in Antrim arnt getting no matter what way you look at it. That's why schools matter a lot if we are ever going to raise the bar properly in Antrim.

[Milltown Row2]

I honestly think a lot of them benefited greatly from sigerson football. (Of course they had to be good enough in the first place to get on teams mind you but I always thought that was a big help).

Not winning five minor and under 21's in a row? Before those lads played sigerson we were winning under 12 right through to senior.

No doubt spike will interject with the transfer policy 

It's the teachers and Gaelfast I blame, useless Cnuts

[imtommygunn]

I honestly think a lot of them benefited greatly from sigerson football. (Of course they had to be good enough in the first place to get on teams mind you but I always thought that was a big help).

Not winning five minor and under 21's in a row? Before those lads played sigerson we were winning under 12 right through to senior.

No doubt spike will interject with the transfer policy 

It's the teachers and Gaelfast I blame, useless Cnuts

Did you see my comment in brackets 

I personally it helped you reach the higher level - at ulster moreso than antrim where you already were going to win anyway.

[Saffsof82]

Games tomorrow could be in doubt with this weather, pitches throughout the country in bad shape. Cant see any team yet for the Wicklow game, anyone heard anything?