China Coronavirus

[armaghniac]

Local guy here died yesterday, no vaccine. Lay on a ventilator for 2 weeks. 52/53 years old. Young family.

In the south about 4% of people in their fifties haven't got the jab, in the North it is 7.5%.

[J70]

Yeah as much as I would be very pro vaccine I really don't think , and really hope, a road is not taken where people not taking a vaccine would be anywhere near somewhere like being refused care or be way down the pecking order for it. As some said here where do you draw the line. A & Es up and down the country are full of drunk people or people who are there on account of things like drunkenness then there is obesity, lung disease through smoking etc. It is an absolute can of worms. I don't see how it is a road you can go down at all.

I was talking to someone in HR about this too. Over here(well the EU) whether or not you have been vaccinated is personal information which you are not at liberty to disclose to the likes of employers. In the states people who haven't had vaccines, in certain companies, are banned from offices but aren't allowed to WFH. You go into very murky ground there because they could end up losing their job through this choice. That , for me, is too far.

(That being said some of the anti vaccine arguments on here - well tbh one in particular - is real tin foil hat stuff. I actually do get why some people would be averse to it for risk reasons etc but the whole control thing, part of the plan, the booster was how it was always going to be etc etc is bonkers.)

Why is that too far?

My employer, a large NY institution, is one of those companies. As of next week, we all have to be fully vaccinated or have had a religious or medical exemption approved by a committee. As of a couple of weeks ago, they were up to 95% vaccinated. The intention was to drop all Covid restrictions in the workplace as full on-site participation resumed (I've been back on site myself for a year), but the Delta surge has postponed the compete roll-back, for now.

My kids have to be up to date on childhood vaccines to attend public school. Very few outside of the MMR/autism crowd and the christian HPV vaccine=license-to-have-sex lunatics have previously raised any objections to mandated vaccines in the states.

I toyed with teaching kids myself for a brief period. Part of the employment conditions for that were up to date vaccines and boosters. No vaccinations, no job.

Why this is all suddenly a "freedom" issue is beyond me.

Forced vaccination or lose your job, no ability to work from home, jab or out - I would say that is a tad too far. There are risks with any foreign substance entering the body, you need to get off the gravy train lambasting those who have genuine concerns versus those who think the whole thing is pie in the sky with mad ideas like we are all being chipped. Statistics like this however small https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting can scare many folk, maybe employers should be trying to educate rather than bully folk, maybe people like yourself should do the same.

I wasn't aware I was bullying people by raising bleeding obvious questions about the sudden change in attitudes to vaccines.

I've no idea what things are like on the ground in Ireland or wherever you are, but the US has an entire segment of the country who are caught in a closed loop of right wing lies and fantasy on covid and a bunch of other issues.

How do you educate these people when their information sources and social circles, in which they are far more invested than anything governments or employers have to say, are telling them it's all bullshit and an attack on "freedom"?

At some point when the carrot fails, the stick becomes necessary.

I find it strange given that we have seen the most untrustworthy, deceitful, lying, sneaky British government in living memory, who have behaved like a bunch of ballbags, lining their own pockets during this pandemic. It's been one rule for them and their cronies and another rule for everyone else, non-sensical rules/lockdowns,  and being held unaccountable for their disgusting behaviour. While their propaganda machine (BBC) spews out their lies and bullshit.

Then we have the circus that is American politics, led by big business and psychopaths,  a rigged election,  the silencing of Trump. Put  all that in the mixer, and you wonder why some people have alternative views.

Yet people still believe the word of these corrupt gangsters. It truly baffles me.

Rigged election, the silencing of Trump?? In the same sentence you decry the "circus that is American politics "??

I know you're into your conspiracy theories Benny, but don't let us down by turning into a run-of-the-mill, bog-standard US-style reactionary right wing dullard.

Personally I'll go with the politicians who demonstrate that they're serious about science and public health, across the board. There's usually a lot of consistency from one science-related topic to another. It's a safe bet that the whack job who publicly endorses creationism, climate denialism, a complete lack of concern for environmental issues and so on is also going to be pushing ivermectin and covid denialism and vaccine "skepticism".

[imtommygunn]

If it was a rigged election anyway then in all likelihood he got in with a rigged election so him being silenced, which he blatantly wasn't, and the rigged election thing are absolute nonsense.

Do I trust Boris Johnson. Absolutely not. Do I think that the many (many many many) scientists / medical people etc etc etc who are behind the vaccine are untrustworthy? No I don't.

Sure I'll read some auld shite on the internet and that will prove otherwise... How naive of me to think otherwise...

[J70]

If it was a rigged election anyway then in all likelihood he got in with a rigged election so him being silenced, which he blatantly wasn't, and the rigged election thing are absolute nonsense.

Do I trust Boris Johnson. Absolutely not. Do I think that the many (many many many) scientists / medical people etc etc etc who are behind the vaccine are untrustworthy? No I don't.

Sure I'll read some auld shite on the internet and that will prove otherwise... How naive of me to think otherwise...

Last sentence is key.

Can't trust the mainstream scientists and doctors because they're, presumably, bought and paid for, but the contrarian positions and views are always the better, safer alternative, no matter how half-baked or poorly supported their ideas. Because it's not the ideas or evidence themselves that matter. It's their contrarian position, which offers license to go against the consensus.

[imtommygunn]

Exactly. The mainstream media are corrupt but source X which I read is absolutely balanced and not corrupt in any way shape or form 

[J70]

Anyone who was saying that natural immunity was as good if not better than vaccine way shot down for most of the pandemic but now it seems to be correct. So do you need a vaccine passport if you have had covid but are not vaccinated ?

Assuming, for the sake of argument, post-infection immunity (if that's what you mean) is better, what, exactly, was shot down?

That idea itself, or the proposition that letting everyone get infected so that we could strive for natural herd immunity was better than restrictions and then a vaccination program.

[J70]

Exactly. The mainstream media are corrupt but source X which I read is absolutely balanced and not corrupt in any way shape or form 

You get the same nonsense with climate change coverage.

All the mainstream climatologists are corrupt and fabricating data so that their funding can be sustained, but the lone skeptics are never looked at to see where THEIR funding comes from. Because corporations and political interests such as oil companies have zero interest in the climate change debate.

Of course, these idiots seem to be completely unaware that science works by falsification, it is hypercompetitive, and that the greatest and most famous scientists in history are the ones who turned their fields upside down with revolutionary advances and paradigm shifts. And especially in this day and age, the peer review process is not going to hold back research and data which calls the consensus into question. The science goes where the data leads. Once enough of it is accumulated and published, the field will follow.

[Cunny Funt]

ROI weekly update. Another week of plateauing in case numbers. Increase in hospital figures continues but much smaller than the week before.

12,658 cases (14 more than last week)
In hospital 347 (33 more than last Sunday)
In ICU 60 ( an increase of 1)

[Cunny Funt]

For the ROI From tomorrow

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/73a24-public-health-measures-that-will-come-into-place-in-september/


From October 22nd

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/83946-public-health-measures-that-will-come-into-place-in-october/

[Rossfan]

No comment necessary

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/revealed-the-counties-with-worst-and-best-vaccine-take-up-40807302.html

[J70]

No comment necessary

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/revealed-the-counties-with-worst-and-best-vaccine-take-up-40807302.html

Public health officials in the US would be creaming themselves if they'd vaccination numbers anywhere near those!

[Cunny Funt]

ROI weekly update. Lowest weekly case number in 5 weeks. Interesting week ahead as the return to schools should factor in.

Cases 10512 ( 2146 fewer than last week)
In hospital 362 (15 more than a week ago)
in ICU 59 ( 1 fewer than last Sunday)

[Gabriel_Hurl]

Madness in the Brazil/Argentina WC qualifier

https://twitter.com/Liam__whu/status/1434596993523986441

The moment ANVISA personnel and Brazilian Federal Police walked on to the pitch during the Argentina vs Brazil match and stopped the game to detain the 4 Premier League Argentinian players who lied to enter the country and play the game.

[Cobra]

Madness in the Brazil/Argentina WC qualifier

https://twitter.com/Liam__whu/status/1434596993523986441

The moment ANVISA personnel and Brazilian Federal Police walked on to the pitch during the Argentina vs Brazil match and stopped the game to detain the 4 Premier League Argentinian players who lied to enter the country and play the game.

It's crazy trying to play international football matches given the different restrictions in different countries.

[Armagh18]

Surely surely surely Leo can't justify keeping nightclubs closed and events operating below capacity now that he's been caught at a festival in the UK?