China Coronavirus

[michaelg]

The notion of closing schools doesn't sit well with me either. The education and mental well being of our children should not be under-estimated.  Covid isn't the only show in town.  Children have had to come out of school and self isolate in my daughters' school also but it is a relatively small percentage.  The kids that have the disease caught it outside of the school environment and thankfully any of their contacts that have self-isolated have not shown any symptoms, had a positive test or spread it to relatives.  Is it really fair to close schools because of this?
Schools aren't there just to mind the kids to allow us all to go back to work.  They provide a vital service in their own right obviously.
The difference in my children is marked since they went back to school.

We don't need to fully close the schools to at least try and get a bit of control on Covid. The lack of social distancing in schools is working against them. We need to look at that.

Time for me to have a rant at schools (and teachers). So basically, when COVID started I came to work and I had an absolute shit load of problems. People out, machines that required people to be sitting side by side, access and exit to and from work with 100's of people coming in together. The canteen was not usable. Every single facet of normal life had to change. You know what, we had to get into gear fast and get solutions to each and every one of these issues working with all our employees who were the best source of ideas. Since March as a result in a factory of more  than 1000 people we have had 5 positive cases, none of which originated at work.

What did schools do when they were shut? Sweet f**k all judging by my locality. Did many teachers come in and help to work on solutions?  Maybe some, but the majority sat at home waiting for someone else to do it for them. Then they threaten strike, the only sector that I know of that used a pandemic to try and manipulate their conditions (and please, don't tell me these teachers unions are interested in pupil safety).

So a couple of things that could have been done.

-Perspex U Shape shields dividing pupils at their desks (no masks required unless moving)
-Use Skype, Teams or other app in the class room - kids on phone/tablets/laptops
- Staggered start time could be considered
- All usual sanitising installed
- Temperature monitoring off  the buses at the gates

Now before anyone jumps down my throat I am fully sure some schools with good management have done some of these things, and I know these things are not easy to do (they weren't easy in my place of work). But you have choices, roll up your sleeves and get to it or sit on the outside moaning about everything. Stop threatening strike at a time when society needs everyone to pull together. Teachers had 3 months off during the summer, fully paid, how many came in and helped in their schools? Of course there is no risk to their pay and job so some would not bother. Where was the leadership in the teacher unions on this?

Schools need to stay open, for the good of kids and the wider economy. I am convinced it can be done in a relatively safe way having lived through a very similar experience at work myself.

Major error not becoming a teacher!

I make medical devices for people who have very serious medical issues, I am quite happy and proud of being able to do something for those people. When we work to find solutions to COVID concerns those people are in our thoughts. If we just stopped making product it would be a serious problem for them.

When teachers and students start to become very ill or worse, your rant may come under more scrutiny!  All work deserves to be done in as safe an environment as possible - technology developed and learnt in record time by teachers has created a very safe environment for teaching and learning since March and in the event of any future temporary school closures.  Schools and teachers can be proud of that.  Not ideal but parents and society want safe learning.  Anyhow, you clearly do very important work for society so well done for keeping things going.

By some teachers. Some did absolutely nothing and you know that. Further, those that did absolutely nothing have no fear of ever having to answer for that either. I commend those teachers that see their job as more than a 9-4 clock in/clock out and rather see it as the important vocation type job it is.

Oh and people will get sick, at work, at home and everywhere. There is no "safe" approach that eliminates risk, we can only do as good as we can do.

Do you know any teachers?  It is simply not possible to do the job working 9 to 4.

[Itchy]

The notion of closing schools doesn't sit well with me either. The education and mental well being of our children should not be under-estimated.  Covid isn't the only show in town.  Children have had to come out of school and self isolate in my daughters' school also but it is a relatively small percentage.  The kids that have the disease caught it outside of the school environment and thankfully any of their contacts that have self-isolated have not shown any symptoms, had a positive test or spread it to relatives.  Is it really fair to close schools because of this?
Schools aren't there just to mind the kids to allow us all to go back to work.  They provide a vital service in their own right obviously.
The difference in my children is marked since they went back to school.

We don't need to fully close the schools to at least try and get a bit of control on Covid. The lack of social distancing in schools is working against them. We need to look at that.

Time for me to have a rant at schools (and teachers). So basically, when COVID started I came to work and I had an absolute shit load of problems. People out, machines that required people to be sitting side by side, access and exit to and from work with 100's of people coming in together. The canteen was not usable. Every single facet of normal life had to change. You know what, we had to get into gear fast and get solutions to each and every one of these issues working with all our employees who were the best source of ideas. Since March as a result in a factory of more  than 1000 people we have had 5 positive cases, none of which originated at work.

What did schools do when they were shut? Sweet f**k all judging by my locality. Did many teachers come in and help to work on solutions?  Maybe some, but the majority sat at home waiting for someone else to do it for them. Then they threaten strike, the only sector that I know of that used a pandemic to try and manipulate their conditions (and please, don't tell me these teachers unions are interested in pupil safety).

So a couple of things that could have been done.

-Perspex U Shape shields dividing pupils at their desks (no masks required unless moving)
-Use Skype, Teams or other app in the class room - kids on phone/tablets/laptops
- Staggered start time could be considered
- All usual sanitising installed
- Temperature monitoring off  the buses at the gates

Now before anyone jumps down my throat I am fully sure some schools with good management have done some of these things, and I know these things are not easy to do (they weren't easy in my place of work). But you have choices, roll up your sleeves and get to it or sit on the outside moaning about everything. Stop threatening strike at a time when society needs everyone to pull together. Teachers had 3 months off during the summer, fully paid, how many came in and helped in their schools? Of course there is no risk to their pay and job so some would not bother. Where was the leadership in the teacher unions on this?

Schools need to stay open, for the good of kids and the wider economy. I am convinced it can be done in a relatively safe way having lived through a very similar experience at work myself.

Major error not becoming a teacher!

I make medical devices for people who have very serious medical issues, I am quite happy and proud of being able to do something for those people. When we work to find solutions to COVID concerns those people are in our thoughts. If we just stopped making product it would be a serious problem for them.

When teachers and students start to become very ill or worse, your rant may come under more scrutiny!  All work deserves to be done in as safe an environment as possible - technology developed and learnt in record time by teachers has created a very safe environment for teaching and learning since March and in the event of any future temporary school closures.  Schools and teachers can be proud of that.  Not ideal but parents and society want safe learning.  Anyhow, you clearly do very important work for society so well done for keeping things going.

By some teachers. Some did absolutely nothing and you know that. Further, those that did absolutely nothing have no fear of ever having to answer for that either. I commend those teachers that see their job as more than a 9-4 clock in/clock out and rather see it as the important vocation type job it is.

Oh and people will get sick, at work, at home and everywhere. There is no "safe" approach that eliminates risk, we can only do as good as we can do.

Do you know any teachers?  It is simply not possible to do the job working 9 to 4.

I know an awful lot. Correction to your comment, it is not possible to do the job "properly" working 9-4, agreed. However, what happens if you are not doing the job properly? Do you get a disciplinary, a lower pay increase at year end etc. Anyway we are digressing away from the point

[Angelo]

The sad thing is most teachers go into the profession for 3 months paid holidays and see this as the most sacred aspect of the job.

They do the good teachers a disservice.

[restorepride]

If a teacher is not doing his or her job properly - complain to the school, again and again.   Same as any other profession.  What I can tell you is that the 'new' teacher in the 6 counties is a completely different species than 20-30 years ago, much better trained and held to account.

[Itchy]

If a teacher is not doing his or her job properly - complain to the school, again and again.   Same as any other profession.  What I can tell you is that the 'new' teacher in the 6 counties is a completely different species than 20-30 years ago, much better trained and held to account.

My comments are related to the South. I dont know anything about teachers in the North. I should have made that clear.
What I can tell you is down here you can complain a million times but bar a teacher murders a pupil in the South they are going nowhere.

[Farrandeelin]

If a teacher is not doing his or her job properly - complain to the school, again and again.   Same as any other profession.  What I can tell you is that the 'new' teacher in the 6 counties is a completely different species than 20-30 years ago, much better trained and held to account.

My comments are related to the South. I dont know anything about teachers in the North. I should have made that clear.
What I can tell you is down here you can complain a million times but bar a teacher murders a pupil in the South they are going nowhere.

Wrong. There are procedures that can get a teacher to lose their job. Just complain to the board of management about him/her/them.

[GetOverTheBar]

Lockdowns and the likes that seem to be called for on this board, I've yet to meet a person off this board that wants that. Therein lies the problem.

Nobody wants lockdowns, but it seems to me that most people accept they may be periodically necessary

I understand the premise of periodical lockdown. Are they needed? Possibly. I'm not sure, someone who knows a bit more about virus transmission will be better equipped to answer that vs the economic effect.

Lockdown without mass testing however is literally wasting everyone's time and money. It's a sticky plaster at best.

[Angelo]

It will be interesting what happens up north in the next 5/6 weeks.

On the 14th August there were 6,299 cases and the death total was 558.

Around two months later and the cases are up to 20,158 but deaths are only up to 588.

So cases are up 223% yet deaths are only up 5%.

Obviously the surge has only been lately so the real answer on deaths will only be in 5/6 weeks time, you'd imagine by using precedent you'd expect the death rate to be 1,805.

I really don't envisage 1,300 odd Covid deaths in the O6 in the next 5/6 weeks.

[LCohen]

I don't think anybody is expecting the same death rate (ie deaths per number of infections)

[seafoid]

Govts everywhere need to start understanding clusters and treat this virus situation as a war

[tbrick18]

It will be interesting what happens up north in the next 5/6 weeks.

On the 14th August there were 6,299 cases and the death total was 558.

Around two months later and the cases are up to 20,158 but deaths are only up to 588.

So cases are up 223% yet deaths are only up 5%.

Obviously the surge has only been lately so the real answer on deaths will only be in 5/6 weeks time, you'd imagine by using precedent you'd expect the death rate to be 1,805.

I really don't envisage 1,300 odd Covid deaths in the O6 in the next 5/6 weeks.

I listened to some professor on BBC Radio Ulster this morning. He said the pattern of infections with low hospital admissions and correspondingly deaths, is similar to what happened in the first wave.
That initially the younger healthier generation get it but that doesn't immediately cause a spike in deaths or hospital admissions, however, with the inevitable spread from the younger generation to the older generation in the weeks ahead, the deaths will rise.
There is no evidence that I've seen that says there will not be 1300 deaths in the 6 over the next 5/6 weeks.
The WHO say the number of reported deaths divided by the reported cases is between 3-4%.
We are at 1000+ a day at the moment, which could mean 30/40 deaths per day if we continue at the current rate of infection. That could be approx 200 deaths a week, over 5-6 weeks is close to the 1300 mark. All very approximate figures, but the complacency about us not going to get it that bad is a major part of the problem in my opinion.

[seafoid]

It will be interesting what happens up north in the next 5/6 weeks.

On the 14th August there were 6,299 cases and the death total was 558.

Around two months later and the cases are up to 20,158 but deaths are only up to 588.

So cases are up 223% yet deaths are only up 5%.

Obviously the surge has only been lately so the real answer on deaths will only be in 5/6 weeks time, you'd imagine by using precedent you'd expect the death rate to be 1,805.

I really don't envisage 1,300 odd Covid deaths in the O6 in the next 5/6 weeks.

I listened to some professor on BBC Radio Ulster this morning. He said the pattern of infections with low hospital admissions and correspondingly deaths, is similar to what happened in the first wave.
That initially the younger healthier generation get it but that doesn't immediately cause a spike in deaths or hospital admissions, however, with the inevitable spread from the younger generation to the older generation in the weeks ahead, the deaths will rise.
There is no evidence that I've seen that says there will not be 1300 deaths in the 6 over the next 5/6 weeks.
The WHO say the number of reported deaths divided by the reported cases is between 3-4%.
We are at 1000+ a day at the moment, which could mean 30/40 deaths per day if we continue at the current rate of infection. That could be approx 200 deaths a week, over 5-6 weeks is close to the 1300 mark. All very approximate figures, but the complacency about us not going to get it that bad is a major part of the problem in my opinion.

The split by age of those infected is key. If it is mostly old people then 4% may be reasonable but if it is younger the mortality rate would typically be lower

[Rossfan]

Something to take Itchy's mind off teachers and Riscommon players meals

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/cavan-headed-for-covid-19-danger-zone-as-border-counties-may-face-level-4-restrictions-39613106.html

[Angelo]

It will be interesting what happens up north in the next 5/6 weeks.

On the 14th August there were 6,299 cases and the death total was 558.

Around two months later and the cases are up to 20,158 but deaths are only up to 588.

So cases are up 223% yet deaths are only up 5%.

Obviously the surge has only been lately so the real answer on deaths will only be in 5/6 weeks time, you'd imagine by using precedent you'd expect the death rate to be 1,805.

I really don't envisage 1,300 odd Covid deaths in the O6 in the next 5/6 weeks.

I listened to some professor on BBC Radio Ulster this morning. He said the pattern of infections with low hospital admissions and correspondingly deaths, is similar to what happened in the first wave.
That initially the younger healthier generation get it but that doesn't immediately cause a spike in deaths or hospital admissions, however, with the inevitable spread from the younger generation to the older generation in the weeks ahead, the deaths will rise.
There is no evidence that I've seen that says there will not be 1300 deaths in the 6 over the next 5/6 weeks.
The WHO say the number of reported deaths divided by the reported cases is between 3-4%.
We are at 1000+ a day at the moment, which could mean 30/40 deaths per day if we continue at the current rate of infection. That could be approx 200 deaths a week, over 5-6 weeks is close to the 1300 mark. All very approximate figures, but the complacency about us not going to get it that bad is a major part of the problem in my opinion.

I still maintain it's highly unlikely. We will see in the next 5/6 weeks though.

It's all guesswork and the experts have shown us that they don't have the foggiest idea.

Is there any conclusive proof that the second wave is any higher than the first or is it just that they now have an established testing and tracing regime in place which is yielding higher positive cases as result?
How many daily new cases are there in reality?
How many actual new cases does the testing system actually capture?
Is it 4 or 5 times higher in reality?
What immunity do asymptomatic people develop?


Whatever way you want to look at it, science has badly let us down.

[restorepride]

It will be interesting what happens up north in the next 5/6 weeks.

On the 14th August there were 6,299 cases and the death total was 558.

Around two months later and the cases are up to 20,158 but deaths are only up to 588.

So cases are up 223% yet deaths are only up 5%.

Obviously the surge has only been lately so the real answer on deaths will only be in 5/6 weeks time, you'd imagine by using precedent you'd expect the death rate to be 1,805.

I really don't envisage 1,300 odd Covid deaths in the O6 in the next 5/6 weeks.

I listened to some professor on BBC Radio Ulster this morning. He said the pattern of infections with low hospital admissions and correspondingly deaths, is similar to what happened in the first wave.
That initially the younger healthier generation get it but that doesn't immediately cause a spike in deaths or hospital admissions, however, with the inevitable spread from the younger generation to the older generation in the weeks ahead, the deaths will rise.
There is no evidence that I've seen that says there will not be 1300 deaths in the 6 over the next 5/6 weeks.
The WHO say the number of reported deaths divided by the reported cases is between 3-4%.
We are at 1000+ a day at the moment, which could mean 30/40 deaths per day if we continue at the current rate of infection. That could be approx 200 deaths a week, over 5-6 weeks is close to the 1300 mark. All very approximate figures, but the complacency about us not going to get it that bad is a major part of the problem in my opinion.

I still maintain it's highly unlikely. We will see in the next 5/6 weeks though.

It's all guesswork and the experts have shown us that they don't have the foggiest idea.

Is there any conclusive proof that the second wave is any higher than the first or is it just that they now have an established testing and tracing regime in place which is yielding higher positive cases as result?
How many daily new cases are there in reality?
How many actual new cases does the testing system actually capture?
Is it 4 or 5 times higher in reality?
What immunity do asymptomatic people develop?


Whatever way you want to look at it, science has badly let us down.

Jaysus!!  Will we start on the rosary or what?