China Coronavirus

[thewobbler]

Rudi's 6 mates prove that Covid isn't worth fretting over and that the WHO, 170 or more Governments and National Health bodies are all wrong.
Those people who have got ongoing problems from Covid are probably imagining it while those who died would have died anyway and aren't worth losing sleep over.

In the world of Rosfan 1 + 2 = 12. Where did I say any of the above?

The odd thing with Rossfan is that he will happily promote an unverified news article about Covid suffering, to humanise the horrors of Covid and shout everyone down for fuelling the death of someone he has never met. But any passage in the other direction is quickly shat upon. Why are so many people incapable of detecting their own hypocrisy?

[Main Street]

For anyone interested in the data the excess deaths info is very interesting. Much more informative than the Covid deaths on worldometer.

Where's that available?

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

I have a shorter attention span when it comes reseearch paper language. This BBC web page demonstrates the excess deaths pattern. 
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53592881

Eg Sweden's excess deaths jan - june were about 1,000 above a 5 year average. Covid deaths were ca 5,000.  That means 4,000
covid related deaths were going to die anyway in that 6 month period. Therefore ca 4,000 either died with covid (not due to covid)   or died a few months week earlier that they would normally, due to covid.  I don't make light of what was endured by those who died earlier due to covid.

The Jan - June UK figures are 60,000 excess deaths.  Covid deaths at that time were recorded at 45,000 (since lowered) . How did the other 15,000 - 20,000 die?
There is an apparant overt manipulation  to lower England's  covid death  figures.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/
Official published covid UK deaths  within 28 days of covid diagnosis now are 42,500, BUT deaths  with covid on the certificate are now recorded at 57,000
UK excess deaths are 60,000   One can reasonably say that covid deaths in the UK are closer to 60,000 and not the more politically accceptable 42,000.

FWIW
It's claimed that Belgium overegged their covid death stats in order to impress the need for urgency.

[imtommygunn]

The tories manipulate figures for their own gain. Well I never.

Bojo meeting for the plan post covid. How about a plan for covid you muppet

[Maroon Manc]

What are the cases like in primary schools up the North?

I'm just surprised its not more rife in primary schools over here, I know there's cases is plenty of Schools in Manchester in including the one my daughters attend but just surprised it didn't spread. There's been 2 cases in my daughters School which led to the class of 30 going online from home for 2 weeks but in both instances it hasn't led to it being passed to any of their classmates which I find strange and after speaking to mates in other schools this is a familiar pattern.

[Milltown Row2]

The tories manipulate figures for their own gain. Well I never.

Bojo meeting for the plan post covid. How about a plan for covid you muppet

Doesn't happen much I'm sure but, there are cases that will go down as death related to covid 19 that actually wasn't covid,

So the example given last night by the Nolan crackpot he brings on (to shut down) mentioned a case of someone who's had covid within and up to 28 days died in a car crash and his death is noted as Covid related, Nolan then brought in the Cambridge doctor to get his view on it, and he also agreed with the 'crackpot'!

Nolan moved swiftly on as it didn't suit his narrative!

[imtommygunn]

I don't know specifics on numbers in primary schools but I definitely know of at least 3 primary schools with cases and one nursery. That is from a cross section of 3 people who have children that I work with have and told me that to be honest so I imagine they could be high enough in general. They're definitely happening anyway though the scale of them I am unsure of.

Nolan needs shut down. That garage forecourt stuff was and is ridiculous.

[Minder]

My sons primary school has had two cases since the start of September, in a school of probably about 600

Daughter is at the big school with over a thousand pupils and they have had their first case this week

[Maroon Manc]

The tories manipulate figures for their own gain. Well I never.

Bojo meeting for the plan post covid. How about a plan for covid you muppet

Doesn't happen much I'm sure but, there are cases that will go down as death related to covid 19 that actually wasn't covid,

So the example given last night by the Nolan crackpot he brings on (to shut down) mentioned a case of someone who's had covid within and up to 28 days died in a car crash and his death is noted as Covid related, Nolan then brought in the Cambridge doctor to get his view on it, and he also agreed with the 'crackpot'!

Nolan moved swiftly on as it didn't suit his narrative!

I know of 3 people who's deaths went down as Covid related, Covid had nothing to do with 2 of their deaths.

[GetOverTheBar]

What are the cases like in primary schools up the North?

I'm just surprised its not more rife in primary schools over here, I know there's cases is plenty of Schools in Manchester in including the one my daughters attend but just surprised it didn't spread. There's been 2 cases in my daughters School which led to the class of 30 going online from home for 2 weeks but in both instances it hasn't led to it being passed to any of their classmates which I find strange and after speaking to mates in other schools this is a familiar pattern.

It is, people just have an obsession with blaming bars and these house parties ad nauseam.

The cases in schools aren't 'promoted' but they are happening regularly enough.

[Milltown Row2]

The tories manipulate figures for their own gain. Well I never.

Bojo meeting for the plan post covid. How about a plan for covid you muppet

Doesn't happen much I'm sure but, there are cases that will go down as death related to covid 19 that actually wasn't covid,

So the example given last night by the Nolan crackpot he brings on (to shut down) mentioned a case of someone who's had covid within and up to 28 days died in a car crash and his death is noted as Covid related, Nolan then brought in the Cambridge doctor to get his view on it, and he also agreed with the 'crackpot'!

Nolan moved swiftly on as it didn't suit his narrative!

I know of 3 people who's deaths went down as Covid related, Covid had nothing to do with 2 of their deaths.

So why is that happening? Is it because they can't perform an autopsy ?

Wife's school has had a few cases lately, that they know of... Daughters school has had some also..... eldest daughter is not staying in Elms Halls last week but wants to go back next week! That'll be fun!

[imtommygunn]

What are the cases like in primary schools up the North?

I'm just surprised its not more rife in primary schools over here, I know there's cases is plenty of Schools in Manchester in including the one my daughters attend but just surprised it didn't spread. There's been 2 cases in my daughters School which led to the class of 30 going online from home for 2 weeks but in both instances it hasn't led to it being passed to any of their classmates which I find strange and after speaking to mates in other schools this is a familiar pattern.

It is, people just have an obsession with blaming bars and these house parties ad nauseam.

The cases in schools aren't 'promoted' but they are happening regularly enough.

Absolutely this. People must be able to be blamed for everything but schools and universities where people are made go to are probably as rife for picking it up as you could find anywhere.

[trileacman]

Irelands excess deaths are in the 1000-1100 range at the minute. "Official" Covid figures state it has claimed the lives of 1800. So they are over-estimating the Covid deaths (but maybe only by 500-600 if you allow for standard deviation of the data).

To answer miltown's question even with autopsy it's impossible to directly say what definitely caused the death. You could open up an elderly person and find clear signs of heart disease, kidney disease or lung pathology. It's really hard in such scenarios to definitively say what precisely caused the death. The patient might have tested positive for Covid but was the kidney/heart/lung damage already there prior to Covid or not?

Likewise in a lot of elderly patients, there's disease processes ongoing in that body. Chronic heart failure is a very common co-morbidity with Covid it seems. So you might have an elderly patient, already with quite advanced heat disease and circulatory problems. It doesn't take much for that body system to fail and Covid might just be the trigger that causes it. But what the excess death data seems to suggest is that certain people who caught Covid would have been unlikely to have seen out the year 2020 anyway. This isn't to belittle their deaths in any way but it just seems to be what the data suggests.

[trileacman]

Also it's not the government job to make sure every Covid death is checked or examined through and through to see if it was definitely a Covid caused death. It would be a waste of resources to investigate deaths in such a grey area.

[imtommygunn]

923 positive cases up north today and looks like a further 15-20 in hospital. The 15-20 seems to have been standard this week. That's not a growth rate that can be kept up or there's big trouble Looks like maybe an additional 3 in ICU since the start of the week. An 80 year old woman died of it

[GetOverTheBar]

Also it's not the government job to make sure every Covid death is checked or examined through and through to see if it was definitely a Covid caused death. It would be a waste of resources to investigate deaths in such a grey area.

If any death is labelled Covid, there is no autopsy or post mortem. Because (largely) Covid is doing the damage to the elderly, if the GP states that is Covid or likely to be Covid that goes on the figures that we see from the National Office of Statistics and so forth, so the figures aren't accurate but that's what they are accepted to be.

What the actual figures are would be nice to know, but as you say, a grey area exists.