China Coronavirus

[Milltown Row2]

Why is age being used as a reason?

I assume it is supposed to be loosely based on chances of survival.  I just don't know what evidence there is to support it. 

I suppose there is no proper solution for choosing, I can't honestly think of a fair call, and the guilt that a doctor will have on their minds is terrible.  Sophie's choice scenario!

I'd have thought its best for the medics on the scene if the decision making process is as tickbox as possible.

It would offload as much of the responsibility as possible from those actually in the wards/ICUs - crap for the patient but might stop the medics from breaking down (now and/or later).

One of those rare instances where "computer says no" is perhaps the lesser of two evils.

So there is no government guidelines on this? Purely on the advice medics on the scene?

No no, we're crossing wires - I'm saying there is, or should be at least, strict guidelines.

Hence whoever is on the scene runs down their tickboxes and the result of that says ye or ne on a ventilator. Would be easier mentally for the doc/nurse on scene if the decision is removed from their hands as much as possible.

Fair enough, but someone had to make that choice, there'll be liability issues after it's all said and done unfortunately.

[GetOverTheBar]

55 for smokers, 75 for normal people.

They should print that on feg packets.

I can't get figures in any country for a smokers v non smokers infection and/or death rate.

Anyone seen this data?

[Solo_run]

My sister is an A&E nurse and they have been told elderly patients with COVID-19 are not to be resucitated.

[seafoid]

https://www.ft.com/content/899407b1-928d-4e23-a951-0e15fc0a98c7

The US can confidently return to work only after there is adequate capacity in hospitals; a broad public health infrastructure to support testing; robust contact tracing to curtail "hotspots"; and widespread availability of blood testing to see who is immune. We see this happening in waves starting in the midsummer.  But we do not expect 100 per cent of US workers to return until there is a vaccine available, as social distancing cannot be relaxed fully without one. Further, large venue events such as sport, concerts and theme parks are likely to remain shut or attendance capped at 10-25 per cent of previous levels. This delayed peak and slow return to work has led our economists to push back projections for a significant US recovery to the third quarter of next year.

[APM]

I was about to post something here suggesting that in all of the media reports of deaths etc around Coronavirus in the UK, black and asian people tend to be over-represented and then I found the article here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/bame-groups-hit-harder-covid-19-than-white-people-uk 

I wonder does this give credence to the reports that the BCG vaccine may help with immunity towards it. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-more-striking-evidence-bcg-vaccine-might-protect-against-covid-19-1.4222110

[Maiden1]

My sister is an A&E nurse and they have been told elderly patients with COVID-19 are not to be resucitated.

So if Prince Charles was diabetic and was admitted to a hospital they would let him die even though he has a very mild dose of COVID-19?  That's basically Euthanasia.

[J70]

I was about to post something here suggesting that in all of the media reports of deaths etc around Coronavirus in the UK, black and asian people tend to be over-represented and then I found the article here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/bame-groups-hit-harder-covid-19-than-white-people-uk 

I wonder does this give credence to the reports that the BCG vaccine may help with immunity towards it. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-more-striking-evidence-bcg-vaccine-might-protect-against-covid-19-1.4222110

Higher rates of mortality is occurring among black and Hispanic populations in the US too.

Two simple and obvious reasons for it:

1. Higher proportions of "essential" workers are black and Hispanic. They tend to be employed in a lot of the public and lower wage jobs and are more likely to still be out and about, interacting with people and patients while they work.
2. Poorer health outcomes due to less access to preventative healthcare. ER is often the primary care available to them.

[johnnycool]

My sister is an A&E nurse and they have been told elderly patients with COVID-19 are not to be resucitated.

was there not a bit of a dispute at the Causeway coast hospital about an elderly lady being admitted and being asked to sign a DNR on admittance.

That wasn't some low level staff doing a solo run IMO.

Desperate times

[APM]

I was about to post something here suggesting that in all of the media reports of deaths etc around Coronavirus in the UK, black and asian people tend to be over-represented and then I found the article here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/bame-groups-hit-harder-covid-19-than-white-people-uk 

I wonder does this give credence to the reports that the BCG vaccine may help with immunity towards it. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-more-striking-evidence-bcg-vaccine-might-protect-against-covid-19-1.4222110

Higher rates of mortality is occurring among black and Hispanic populations in the US too.

Two simple and obvious reasons for it:

1. Higher proportions of "essential" workers are black and Hispanic. They tend to be employed in a lot of the public and lower wage jobs and are more likely to still be out and about, interacting with people and patients while they work.
2. Poorer health outcomes due to less access to preventative healthcare. ER is often the primary care available to them.

Funny, I think that's also spot on and the epidemiologists will be considering the cause and effect. There could also be an interesting discussion here about outbreaks in care homes for example.

[Jeepers Creepers]

I was about to post something here suggesting that in all of the media reports of deaths etc around Coronavirus in the UK, black and asian people tend to be over-represented and then I found the article here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/bame-groups-hit-harder-covid-19-than-white-people-uk 

I wonder does this give credence to the reports that the BCG vaccine may help with immunity towards it. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-more-striking-evidence-bcg-vaccine-might-protect-against-covid-19-1.4222110

BCG is an interesting one (although Im sure they are exhausting every possible link). I Would like to see a chart of countries that used this as a vacine for TB.

[HiMucker]

Why is age being used as a reason?

I assume it is supposed to be loosely based on chances of survival.  I just don't know what evidence there is to support it. 

I suppose there is no proper solution for choosing, I can't honestly think of a fair call, and the guilt that a doctor will have on their minds is terrible.  Sophie's choice scenario!

I'd have thought its best for the medics on the scene if the decision making process is as tickbox as possible.

It would offload as much of the responsibility as possible from those actually in the wards/ICUs - crap for the patient but might stop the medics from breaking down (now and/or later).

One of those rare instances where "computer says no" is perhaps the lesser of two evils.

So there is no government guidelines on this? Purely on the advice medics on the scene?

No no, we're crossing wires - I'm saying there is, or should be at least, strict guidelines.

Hence whoever is on the scene runs down their tickboxes and the result of that says ye or ne on a ventilator. Would be easier mentally for the doc/nurse on scene if the decision is removed from their hands as much as possible.

Fair enough, but someone had to make that choice, there'll be liability issues after it's all said and done unfortunately.

My understanding was that hospitals adopted "the 3 wise men" approach when it came to making the choice between who got a ventilator.? Thats what a consultant working with covid patients informed me. Open to correction. Harrowing circumstances, and I've heard similar stories from the hospital here regarding age for ventilators etc, and again that was all from people working there on the front line.

[RadioGAAGAA]

I was about to post something here suggesting that in all of the media reports of deaths etc around Coronavirus in the UK, black and asian people tend to be over-represented and then I found the article here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/bame-groups-hit-harder-covid-19-than-white-people-uk 

I wonder does this give credence to the reports that the BCG vaccine may help with immunity towards it. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-more-striking-evidence-bcg-vaccine-might-protect-against-covid-19-1.4222110

Correlation does not indicate causality obviously - but hopefully the last couple of paragraphs in that IT article lead to something

US virologist Robert Gallo of the Institute of Human Virology in Maryland has confirmed he is working with a team who will make an announcement shortly that will have "a major effect" on global efforts to tackle Covid-19.

Best known for his role in the discovery of HIV as the infectious agent responsible for AIDS, Prof Gallo did not go into detail other than to indicate it involves deployment of "an adjusted existing vaccine" that will be available within months.

[Wee Roddy]

If you know it to be incorrect then do you know what's correct though? (That is not a dig I would genuinely be interested as my "source" wasn't the media)

I do know that people well over the age of 40 have been on them in Italy. I have an English cousin who lives in Genoa who is married to a nurse. I have no stats though, sorry.

[Jeepers Creepers]

I was about to post something here suggesting that in all of the media reports of deaths etc around Coronavirus in the UK, black and asian people tend to be over-represented and then I found the article here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/bame-groups-hit-harder-covid-19-than-white-people-uk 

I wonder does this give credence to the reports that the BCG vaccine may help with immunity towards it. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-more-striking-evidence-bcg-vaccine-might-protect-against-covid-19-1.4222110

Correlation does not indicate causality obviously - but hopefully the last couple of paragraphs in that IT article lead to something

US virologist Robert Gallo of the Institute of Human Virology in Maryland has confirmed he is working with a team who will make an announcement shortly that will have "a major effect" on global efforts to tackle Covid-19.

Best known for his role in the discovery of HIV as the infectious agent responsible for AIDS, Prof Gallo did not go into detail other than to indicate it involves deployment of "an adjusted existing vaccine" that will be available within months.

A bit on the news the other night (C4 I think) about a vaccine initially created for Ebola (which didn't work) is being lab tested with some positive signs.

[gallsman]

936 UK deaths in 24 hours. Highest Italy recorded was 971 and UK is still probably a week or so off the peak.