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[spelling mistake]

It's McClean ffs. You've been spelling that wrong for months

When a spelling mistake annoys you, it show's you have little to be worried about. Maybe you are just a school teacher.

[I suppose that's how quite a few Irish rugby fans are, provincial and petty (chip eaters]

If that was to be O'Gara's last substitute performance for Ireland, it was a pity that it was such a sad swan song from one of Ireland's greatest players of the last last decade. Not so long ago he would have found touch effortlessly while blindfolded, instead of those inexplicably awful efforts he made in the game against England.
There's just a chorus of 'fxxk off away from the squad'.
I suppose that's how quite a few Irish rugby fans are, provincial and petty (chip eaters).

..or objective and wanting the best for Irish rugby. O'Gara should be nowhere near that squad . His prescence over the last couple of years has held back the international development of young Irish out-halves , Sexton notwithstanding.

In the past he could kick well , nothing more. Nowadays he can't seem to do that . He therefore can bring nothing that could benefit this Irish team.

[The "respect the kicker" is whole load of nonsense]

.

The "respect the kicker" is whole load of nonsense. Respect the opposition before the match and after the match is what really matters. But whether its a wall of silence or a wall of noise, the home crowd should do their best to intimidate the kicker. Likewise the hooker, but he gets a lot less sympathy for some reason when a cacophony of noise tries to upset him. In my experience the home crowds at Toulouse and Munster are the best at intimidating oppostion and officials.
[/quote]

Silence for a place kicker should always be observed.

In the amateur era it was always respected , not so much in the professional era. Bad form for crowds to boo a place kicker. Not on.

[ot innocuous educational establishments]

MR2, the core reason for sectarianism in the 6 counties is the artificial statelet set up on a crude sectarian headcount.Until that is addressed sectarianism will never be successfully tackled.

My point is that if you even wanted to start to deal with the problem,you would target organisations like the OO,not innocuous educational establishments that do not propagate sectarianism.

Don't know about you but one adjective that I would not use to describe educational establishments is "innocuous". These are the places where our children learn , interact with other human beings , form friendships , learn and develop social skills , develop sporting prowess."Innocuous"?- catch a grip.

[the State school sector in NI sees its role as promoting colonialism.]

with no exposure whatsoever to any form of Irish culture.

Exactly. Leaving religion out of it, the State school sector in NI sees its role as promoting colonialism.

No. That's one of the few arguments in their favour.

And their fans see this as the objective of such schools.

You must be having a laugh surely.

[Has the status quo in education prevented both sides from interacting (reasonably well)]

It might give rise to a "feeling", but what is the point in having integrated education, when the Orange Order indoctrinates kids from an early age? Has the status quo in education prevented both sides from interacting (reasonably well)

Integrated education is a red herring thrown in by unionist parties as a game of oneupmanship against "the other side". The real contributory factors towards community division and sectarianism, eg the Orange Order, paramilitary control of ghettoes on both sides etc, is neither addressed nor challenged.

The answer to your question can only be "yes".

Notwithstanding your personal  observations on the Orange Order it has little influence on the majority of Protestant children.

[which are preventing kids integrating from an early age, the inference being clearly that this is fuelling sectarianism]

Surely the objection is not specifically to the teaching of RE, but the fact that there are "Catholic only" schools, which are preventing kids integrating from an early age, the inference being clearly that this is fuelling sectarianism (when the reality is that its doing nothing of the sort). This fallacy of contributing sectarianism needs to be challenged, efficiency savings etc could be argued more rationally.

Old fogies like me, remember the Chilver Report in 1980 which proposed the merger of Stranmillis and Trench House Teacher Training colleges in Belfast, which was vigorously and successfully opposed by the Catholic middle classes. One wonders if the same vehement opposition could be rallied against integrated education at all levels these days.

It is more than an inference and it  certainly fuels a feeling of  division/difference  amongst kids.

I agree that Henry should start definitely.

But as regards Andrew Trimble. Seriously he has had more than enough chances. He is solid and physical but nothing more than that. He lacks the class required of an international wing.

He's not a "footballer" (never has been) and is somewhat typical of many  modern day backs - big, powerful, direct and fast.  When Gilroy was dancing around everyone a couple of months ago and putting the pressure on him re Ulster  it was noticeable that Trimble put in a few great performances and save for a poor attempt at a tackle v Northampton has been consisitently good over the last few weeks.

It appears that you have to put in a few startling performances for Ulster  if you are looking to get recognised in the Irish set up (Gilroy) whilst a few workmanlike performances for Munster gets you there (O'Mahoney)
         

[O'Mahony over Henry is a shocking decision - the best 7 in Ireland shafted ahead of a guy who is barely Heineken Cup standard and has done nothing of note on the International stage.]

Irish team in full to play Wales

15 Rob Kearney 14 Craig Gilroy 13 Brian O'Driscoll 12 Gordon D'Arcy 11 Simon Zebo 10 Jonathan Sexton 9 Conor Murray 1Cian Healy 2 Rory Best 3 Mike Ross 4 Mike McCarthy 5 Donnacha Ryan 6 Peter O'Mahony 7 Sean O'Brien 8 Jamie Heaslip.

Replacements: 16 Sean Cronin 17 David Kilcoyne 18 Declan Fitzpatrick 19 Donncha O'Callaghan 20 Chris Henry 21 Eoin Reddan 22 Ronan O'Gara 23 Keith Earls

O'Mahony over Henry is a shocking decision - the best 7 in Ireland shafted ahead of a guy who is barely Heineken Cup standard and has done nothing of note on the International stage. Wales have Warburton and Tipuric, 2 out and out groundhogs - we are going to struggle at the breakdown - what is the point of having Gilroy and Zebo when both thrive on quick ball and space.

The Ulster quota system. It's been going for years. Preferably two and  three at most notwithstanding what is going on in the Rabo or Heiniken Cup. 

Quite remarkable that Trimble left out of 33 too. Reddan, O'Gara and O'Callaghan should not be anywhere near it but selection is predictable .

I agree with you on Trimble, I wouldn't on the quota bit.

Think it's a bit tongue and cheek with the quota. Ulster fans tend to feel hard done by, by Irish selections. I think they may have a case over the non selection of Henry!

I haven't seen enough of O'Mahony though to comment, but given Ulster's run and they way he's been playing you could be right. Though i seem to remember Henry being pulverised by Wales last year or was it the year before.

O'Mahoney isn't HC or international standard IMHO. Henry has consisitently been the best back row in Ireland this year without question. It is a shocking decision but depressingly predictable.

Im terms of Ulster representation Henderson, Paul Marshall , Cave , Court and Trimble can feel very hard done by in not getting into the match day 22. Kidney does not pick on form that is crystal clear and seems loathe to put trust in many Ulster players for 6 Nations games,

[O'Mahony over Henry is a shocking decision - the best 7 in Ireland shafted ahead of a guy who is barely Heineken Cup standard and has done nothing of note on the International stage.]

Irish team in full to play Wales

15 Rob Kearney 14 Craig Gilroy 13 Brian O'Driscoll 12 Gordon D'Arcy 11 Simon Zebo 10 Jonathan Sexton 9 Conor Murray 1Cian Healy 2 Rory Best 3 Mike Ross 4 Mike McCarthy 5 Donnacha Ryan 6 Peter O'Mahony 7 Sean O'Brien 8 Jamie Heaslip.

Replacements: 16 Sean Cronin 17 David Kilcoyne 18 Declan Fitzpatrick 19 Donncha O'Callaghan 20 Chris Henry 21 Eoin Reddan 22 Ronan O'Gara 23 Keith Earls

O'Mahony over Henry is a shocking decision - the best 7 in Ireland shafted ahead of a guy who is barely Heineken Cup standard and has done nothing of note on the International stage. Wales have Warburton and Tipuric, 2 out and out groundhogs - we are going to struggle at the breakdown - what is the point of having Gilroy and Zebo when both thrive on quick ball and space.

The Ulster quota system. It's been going for years. Preferably two and  three at most notwithstanding what is going on in the Rabo or Heiniken Cup. 

Quite remarkable that Trimble left out of 33 too. Reddan, O'Gara and O'Callaghan should not be anywhere near it but selection is predictable .

[is he really the best 13 in]

Why not wait till he's retired?

Because that is sentimental - he's powers are on the wane and is he really the best 13 in Ireland at the moment? Time stands still for no man as they say - having him in the squad makes the transition easier, also just because he is no longer named captain doesn't mean he can't lead on and off the pitch.

Probably not but his will to win and commitment keeps him in the squad, just. He is not the player he was but you do see the odd glimpse of class now and again. The best rugby player that I have seen play the game in the last 30 years.

My concern is that if he keeps playing the game in the same way that he has during his career he could get seriously injured. The injuries have slowed him down a bit too. Luke Marshall and to a lesser degree Darren Cave are pushing him close now.

[Absolute bullshit, what you are saying would make the NI flag irrelevant]

I have no problem with McIlroy playing for GB if that is his wish, I have said he has the right to choose. He does however come from a nationalist catholic community which for years suffered discrimination and violence in the name of said Ulster Flag. His own uncle was shot in its name. That is the issue and Heganboy whether you like it or not it is an issue for many people in much the same way the tricolour is for the unionist community. I would prefer to see all flags taken out of sport where identities are divided. The proliferation of Ulster Flags in 1999 was due in large part to the DUP who handed them out free. Ulster Rugby actually plays under the old 9 County Flag which predates partition.

I think that you do have problem with him playing for GB (if that be his wish)

He was obviously brought up by parents in a difficult and  divided society who ensured that he mixed with both ussuns and themmuns through his schooling etc. That upbringing has evidently manifested itself in a fairly mature and rounded adult ideal for 21st Century NI.

The only flag that "Ulster Rugby" have any association with is the one with their logo printed on it.

DUP handing out free  flags in '99??  You're having a laugh. I got mine in Dublin.

You are quite wrong their, yes as with the other provinces the Ulster Team has a badge which they have put on flags, check the Ulster Branch Website which is the controlling body for Ulster Rugby. And yes you may have got yours in Dublin but the DUP quite proudly advertised that they were giving them out.

The team that plays at Ravenhill does not represent the old province of Ulster - it is a club  like all others in professional rugby.  That said it obviously has a connection to this part of the world (and other parts) hence the variety of colourful flags on show which I must say makes it a bit of a spectacle and which I quite like. What goes on the pitch is more important though .

Rory likes the rugby too doesn't he . Maybe the diversity attracts him as well as a feeling of connection to the team.

I get the feeling that , ulike yourself , the only flags that he is really concerned with are those positioned on the short grass.

Absolute bullshit, what you are saying would make the NI flag irrelevant. It plays Rugby Union, draws its players from Ulster Clubs (and abroad too) but this is all regulated by the Ulster Branch of the IRFU. You OWC revisionism does not stand the test.

Relevant to the extent that a large number of the players were born and  brought up in NI.

Ulster flags , NI flags , Saffa flags, St Patrick flags ,Rising Sun flags - relevant or not still make for a colourful spectacle. Pity you can't enjoy it.

Actually I can and do enjoy it, on a point of principle though I would prefer to see tricolours/ni flags and other divisive flags left at home. But unfortunately that is not the society in which we live.

Get yourself down early to both Ravenhill and the Aviva on match days then . You'll have a lot of collecting to do at the gate. 

Thousands upon thousands of Unionists from north of the border have flocked to Landsdowne/Aviva over the years and have been surrounded by tri-colours. However most  if not all of them have been more concerned with what happens on the pitch after the ref blows his whistle.

Anyway back to Rory ....I'm more concerned with what he does on the green stuff too.

[Absolute bullshit, what you are saying would make the NI flag irrelevant]

I have no problem with McIlroy playing for GB if that is his wish, I have said he has the right to choose. He does however come from a nationalist catholic community which for years suffered discrimination and violence in the name of said Ulster Flag. His own uncle was shot in its name. That is the issue and Heganboy whether you like it or not it is an issue for many people in much the same way the tricolour is for the unionist community. I would prefer to see all flags taken out of sport where identities are divided. The proliferation of Ulster Flags in 1999 was due in large part to the DUP who handed them out free. Ulster Rugby actually plays under the old 9 County Flag which predates partition.

I think that you do have problem with him playing for GB (if that be his wish)

He was obviously brought up by parents in a difficult and  divided society who ensured that he mixed with both ussuns and themmuns through his schooling etc. That upbringing has evidently manifested itself in a fairly mature and rounded adult ideal for 21st Century NI.

The only flag that "Ulster Rugby" have any association with is the one with their logo printed on it.

DUP handing out free  flags in '99??  You're having a laugh. I got mine in Dublin.

You are quite wrong their, yes as with the other provinces the Ulster Team has a badge which they have put on flags, check the Ulster Branch Website which is the controlling body for Ulster Rugby. And yes you may have got yours in Dublin but the DUP quite proudly advertised that they were giving them out.

The team that plays at Ravenhill does not represent the old province of Ulster - it is a club  like all others in professional rugby.  That said it obviously has a connection to this part of the world (and other parts) hence the variety of colourful flags on show which I must say makes it a bit of a spectacle and which I quite like. What goes on the pitch is more important though .

Rory likes the rugby too doesn't he . Maybe the diversity attracts him as well as a feeling of connection to the team.

I get the feeling that , ulike yourself , the only flags that he is really concerned with are those positioned on the short grass.

Absolute bullshit, what you are saying would make the NI flag irrelevant. It plays Rugby Union, draws its players from Ulster Clubs (and abroad too) but this is all regulated by the Ulster Branch of the IRFU. You OWC revisionism does not stand the test.

Relevant to the extent that a large number of the players were born and  brought up in NI.

Ulster flags , NI flags , Saffa flags, St Patrick flags ,Rising Sun flags - relevant or not still make for a colourful spectacle. Pity you can't enjoy it.

I have no problem with McIlroy playing for GB if that is his wish, I have said he has the right to choose. He does however come from a nationalist catholic community which for years suffered discrimination and violence in the name of said Ulster Flag. His own uncle was shot in its name. That is the issue and Heganboy whether you like it or not it is an issue for many people in much the same way the tricolour is for the unionist community. I would prefer to see all flags taken out of sport where identities are divided. The proliferation of Ulster Flags in 1999 was due in large part to the DUP who handed them out free. Ulster Rugby actually plays under the old 9 County Flag which predates partition.

I think that you do have problem with him playing for GB (if that be his wish)

He was obviously brought up by parents in a difficult and  divided society who ensured that he mixed with both ussuns and themmuns through his schooling etc. That upbringing has evidently manifested itself in a fairly mature and rounded adult ideal for 21st Century NI.

The only flag that "Ulster Rugby" have any association with is the one with their logo printed on it.

DUP handing out free  flags in '99??  You're having a laugh. I got mine in Dublin.

You are quite wrong their, yes as with the other provinces the Ulster Team has a badge which they have put on flags, check the Ulster Branch Website which is the controlling body for Ulster Rugby. And yes you may have got yours in Dublin but the DUP quite proudly advertised that they were giving them out.

The team that plays at Ravenhill does not represent the old province of Ulster - it is a club  like all others in professional rugby.  That said it obviously has a connection to this part of the world (and other parts) hence the variety of colourful flags on show which I must say makes it a bit of a spectacle and which I quite like. What goes on the pitch is more important though .

Rory likes the rugby too doesn't he . Maybe the diversity attracts him as well as a feeling of connection to the team.

I get the feeling that , ulike yourself , the only flags that he is really concerned with are those positioned on the short grass.

Well said, heganboy.

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