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Messages - W.A.G. Lover

#1
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone Club Football and Hurling
March 07, 2024, 11:16:10 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 07, 2024, 10:42:22 AM
Quote from: W.A.G. Lover on March 07, 2024, 09:32:34 AM
Quote from: God14 on March 07, 2024, 08:38:43 AMnot disagreeing with either points

but in the case of Cookstown, is it not a case they have looked at neighbouring towns such as Dungannon, Magherafelt and Omagh - and made a bigger effort as a club to replicate the successful strategies employed there?

Id be passing magherafelt pitch quite alot, its on a busy road. The work going on in that club is fantastic, the pitch is stacked with young kids all the time. Its no surprise that they are bearing the fruit of that at senior level. Every Derry underage side, and the big schools are benefitting of the work Magherafelt are doing. Cookstown rightly should be trying to emulate that

I think your post is missing the point. Magherafelt is stacked with young kids because they have a growing town population, which in turn creates a strong underage and eventually will create a strong senior team, if nurtured correctly. Yes, Cookstown will see that and try to replicate same - But this still doesn't solve the problem of decreasing rural numbers.

In North/West Tyrone, which is probably worst hit:

  • Take Clan NaGael for example - They were in division 1/1A/1B for the guts of 10-15 years, with a senior championship semi-final in 2006. They are now languishing in the bottom half of division 3 and youth football amalgamated with Craigbane in Derry just to field.
  • Gortin (1980s/1990s/2000s) and Greencastle (2010s) were notable senior sides, with Gortin even competing in a Senior Championship final in 1985. Rural depopulation/emigration has meant those clubs have been mostly division 2 over past number of years, with Gortin also amalgamating with Glenelly at underage level.
  • Newtownstewart and Dregish merged/amalgamated at youth and senior level.
  • Urney won an intermediate championship to reach senior football approx 2014, but now languish in the lower half of division 3 with no real prospects of promotion.

Do we ease the parish boundaries rule? Do we allow a transfer market of some kind allowing players to move from a club with larger numbers to a club with smaller numbers? This benefits the player getting football, and helps the player get more game time.


It is an issue but are stricter planning rules at the heart of this? A few one off dwellings are not going to turn the fortunes of any of those clubs around. In most cases there is a village at the hub and development would be permitted IF there was demand.

i 100% agree, one-off dwellings are not enough to sustain a club as can be seen with rural clubs now. Stricter planning policies are a major contributing factor. Planning policies were changed last year and restrict building in rural villages. They talk about the "need" for housing and "commitments" they have made to historic approvals, but where have these numbers been taken from? Who have they consulted? It certainly isnt the local people as i know many villages are crying out for new developments but restricted by planning and lack of NI Water infrastructure.

Ive said it on this forum before, we need the help of our councillors and county committee to help the plight of smaller clubs, rather than be just happy to see bigger town clubs get stronger.
#2
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone Club Football and Hurling
March 07, 2024, 09:32:34 AM
Quote from: God14 on March 07, 2024, 08:38:43 AMnot disagreeing with either points

but in the case of Cookstown, is it not a case they have looked at neighbouring towns such as Dungannon, Magherafelt and Omagh - and made a bigger effort as a club to replicate the successful strategies employed there?

Id be passing magherafelt pitch quite alot, its on a busy road. The work going on in that club is fantastic, the pitch is stacked with young kids all the time. Its no surprise that they are bearing the fruit of that at senior level. Every Derry underage side, and the big schools are benefitting of the work Magherafelt are doing. Cookstown rightly should be trying to emulate that

I think your post is missing the point. Magherafelt is stacked with young kids because they have a growing town population, which in turn creates a strong underage and eventually will create a strong senior team, if nurtured correctly. Yes, Cookstown will see that and try to replicate same - But this still doesn't solve the problem of decreasing rural numbers.

In North/West Tyrone, which is probably worst hit:

  • Take Clan NaGael for example - They were in division 1/1A/1B for the guts of 10-15 years, with a senior championship semi-final in 2006. They are now languishing in the bottom half of division 3 and youth football amalgamated with Craigbane in Derry just to field.
  • Gortin (1980s/1990s/2000s) and Greencastle (2010s) were notable senior sides, with Gortin even competing in a Senior Championship final in 1985. Rural depopulation/emigration has meant those clubs have been mostly division 2 over past number of years, with Gortin also amalgamating with Glenelly at underage level.
  • Newtownstewart and Dregish merged/amalgamated at youth and senior level.
  • Urney won an intermediate championship to reach senior football approx 2014, but now languish in the lower half of division 3 with no real prospects of promotion.

Do we ease the parish boundaries rule? Do we allow a transfer market of some kind allowing players to move from a club with larger numbers to a club with smaller numbers? This benefits the player getting football, and helps the player get more game time.
#3
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone Club Football and Hurling
March 06, 2024, 03:31:14 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 06, 2024, 02:39:41 PMHeard Cookstown had 60 players at a senior/reserve team meeting for the start of this season so they could easily be looking at a 3rds team with those numbers and that's even before their current youth numbers start to filter through to adult level.

The difference in numbers between rural and town clubs at present is shocking, and will only get worse with these ever increasing youth numbers. Stricter planning regulations are now inhibiting rural clubs as they are relying on farm dwelling or replacement dwellings, with no new developments. Not that many recognise the Parish rule in its current format, but it is something that may need reviewed if rural clubs are to compete again in the future.
#4
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone Club Football and Hurling
March 06, 2024, 11:39:28 AM
Quote from: Goals_Will_Come on March 06, 2024, 11:28:34 AM
Quote from: superstar_ on March 06, 2024, 11:21:46 AMPlans being put in place to split the Division 3 league into two tiers. Junior Championship will remain the same. Unclear yet the format that the league will take but probably looking top tier of 8 and bottom tier of 9 with Home and Away fixtures.
I see potential in this change. Junior has the biggest gap between top and bottom and might allow some of the teams currently struggling a chance to start building again with more competitive games against those around them rather than taking drubbings from Strabane, Aghaloo, Glenelly, Killeeshil et al. and help with bringing youngsters through and establish themselves in competitive games rather than 20+ hammerings and pushing them towards other sports.
Also creates an opportunity for more thirds teams to enter and have more teams in Junior. In time this could lead to the Junior league expanding and potentially two groups of 10 with the bottom group made up with more thirds teams and this would make this more appealing to your Omaghs, Dromores, Carrickmores, Coalislands for entering a thirds team if it was at that level against other thirds teams.

More appealing to players yes, but i cant see senior managements been too keen. Was this not an issue before whereby senior / reserve footballers were opting for the more recreational "thirds" team football and therefore hindering the senior panel?
I still insist the current 3 divisions split across 4 divisions would work better. Even introduce a 5th if needs be for more "thirds" teams if they wish to enter. There is an equal gulf in difference in division 3 teams as there is between top half division 1 and bottom half division 1/top half division 2.
The so called "bigger" clubs dont like this idea as they are afraid they may loss their senior status, but if we still maintain 16 teams at senior championship level, then all they have to do is finish within top 16 teams of 1A/1B league to ensure qualification.
#5
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone Club Football and Hurling
February 01, 2024, 08:50:27 AM
Quote from: clarshack on January 31, 2024, 11:22:56 PM
Quote from: GaaGPT on January 31, 2024, 10:49:05 PMSurely the reserve start will be reconsidered. Clubs will be playing a lot of seniors throughout there reserve teams

If the list of Senior players ineligible to play Reserve League is Not done right by each club then it will certainly be abused meaning genuine Reserve players will miss out on game time. Is it still a list of 12 players? Some rule will need introduced here or it will be a disaster and more reserve games not played

Could each club reserve team be everyone, except 12 of the starting 15 in the previous years senior championship for that club? Similar to how senior championship is done.
#6
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone Club Football and Hurling
November 01, 2023, 09:05:26 AM
Ardboe - Gavin Devlin
Carrickmore - Archie Beattie
Coalisland - Barry Tracey / Stevie McNeice
Donaghmore  - Marc Counihan
Dromore - McMenamin/McIver
Dungannon - Rafferty/Holmes
Edendork - Conleth Gilligan
Eglish - Mattie McGleenan
Errigal Ciaran - Harte/O'Donnell
Galbally - Paddy Crozier/Joe McMahon
Greencastle - Sean Teague

Killyclogher - Kieran Howe
Loughmacrory - Meenagh
Moortown - Hassan
Omagh - Harbison
Trillick - Jody Gormley & Peter McGinnity

--------

Intermediate / Division 2

Aghyaran - Bernard McGeehan and Brendan McLaughlan
Beragh - Noel Slane
Clogher -
Clonoe - Niall ONeill Kieran Hughes
Derrylaughan - Kevin Niblock
Gortin - Roger Keenan
Kildress - Declan Treanor

Killeeshil - Stephen McHugh
Moy - Sean Cavaanagh
Naomh Eoghan - Sean Murtagh
Owen Roes - Stefan Deery/Tim Harney
Pomeroy - John McElholm
Rock - Tommy Bloomer
Stewartstown - Blake Smith Peter Armour
Strabane - Dermot Corry
T***yreagh - Niall Keyes

--------

Junior / Division 3

Aghaloo - Steven Donnelly
Augher - Aidan Cassidy
Brackaville - Enda Kilpatrick
Brocagh -
Castlederg - Chris McLaughlin
Clann na nGael -
Cookstown - Conleth Donnelly/Des Tracey
Derrytresk -
Donaghmore III - Ruairi Keenan (still playing with Gortin)
Drumquin -
Drumragh - Colm Bradley
Errigal Ciaran III -
Eskra - Seamus McCallan
Fintona - Martin Greene/Kevin Cassidy
Glenelly - Diarmuid McNulty
Killyman -
Urney - Marty McNulty
#7
Errigal by 5
Moy by 3
#8
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone Club Football and Hurling
October 06, 2023, 09:27:05 AM
Unfortunately the problem in (Rural) North/West Tyrone is de-population. The numbers are depleting each year - Just look at the number of school closures and youth amalgamations in the area.
  • Gortin and Glenelly
  • Clan Na Gael and Craigbane
  • Owen Roes and Urney
  • Newtownstewart and Dregish - Permanent.

There are very few, if any, new housing developments in these areas. New builds are becoming increasingly more difficult to build with planning restrictions and rising costs. The majority of funding for big projects is East of the Bann which restricts work possibilities. With no nearby access to motorway, trains or even decent bus routes, there is no attraction for people to remain here.

In years gone by, Rural and Urban clubs in Tyrone were equally strong and vibrant with numbers, but over the years this gap has become increasingly bigger, particularly in the North West. This area of Tyrone has produced some fantastic footballers over the years like O'Neill, Dooher, McShane, etc, but unless we stop this tide, we will be producing less players of their ilk from these areas. Look at the Tyrone training centre at Garvaghy - Almost 1 hour drive from the locality - Not exactly central or appealing to any young footballer (Or their parents driving them to training).

As a GAA community we need to be putting more pressure on our politicians to help areas like North/West Tyrone that are been left behind in terms of investment, infrastructure, development, etc. A vibrant North/West Tyrone can only make our County as a whole, alot stronger.
#9
Trillick v Dungannon
Derrylaughan v Pomeroy
Clonoe v Moy
Errigal v Ardboe Biggest margin
Fintona v Drumragh
#10
Moy
#11
Aghaloo V Fintona
Drumragh V Cookstown
Clonoe V Aghyaran
Moortown V Errigal Biggest margin
Edendork V Trillick
Ardboe V Coalisland
Dungannon V Dromore
Derrylaughan V Gortin
Owen Roes V Pomeroy
#12
Game    Team1    Team 2
1    Rock    Clonoe
2    Errigal Ciaran    Killyclogher
3    Tattyreagh    Aghyaran
4    Moortown    Donaghmore Biggest margin
5    Loughmacrory    Trillick
6    Owen Roes    Naomh Eoghan
7    Omagh    Ardboe
8    Greencastle    Coalisland
9    Edendork    Carrickmore
10    Kildress    Moy
11    Eglish    Dungannon
12    Pomeroy    Beragh
13    Galbally    Dromore
14    Clogher    Killeeshil
15    Gortin    Strabane
16    Derrylaughan    Stewartstown
#13
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone Club Football and Hurling
September 11, 2023, 02:25:32 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on September 11, 2023, 01:04:53 PM
Quote from: W.A.G. Lover on September 11, 2023, 10:59:21 AM
Why is everyone still talking about splitting Junior? - That doesnt solve anything.
When are the "bigger" clubs in Tyrone going to accept a re-structure of the leagues without the fear their club will drop down. Proposals below still mean league and championship linked, and as long as you finish in top 16 league positions across top 2 divisions, you are still playing Senior Championship.

4 divisions - Equal split of 4 x 12/13 teams. Play everyone once - Half of which are starred, and introduce a cup to get a few more games. Top 16 league positions from previous year play Senior championship, next 16 intermediate and following 16 play Junior.
5 divisions - Equal split of 5 x 9/10 teams. Play everyone twice - Half of which are starred. Top 16 league positions from previous year play Senior championship, next 16 intermediate and following 16 play Junior.
6 divisions - Equal split of 6 x 8/9 teams. Play everyone twice - Half of which are starred. Division 1 & 2 teams play senior championship, Division 3 & 4 teams play intermediate championship and Division 5 & 6 teams play senior championship

Each of these proposals leaves us with 16 teams in the Junior Championship and the potential mis-matches that triggered this particular round of hand-wringing over the state of Junior football.

Where do you propose to put these weaker Junior teams? I cant imagine they want to play a token Junior B championship, with no end-game in Ulster. Essentially by removing them from Junior, they become recreational sides.
#14
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone Club Football and Hurling
September 11, 2023, 10:59:21 AM
Why is everyone still talking about splitting Junior? - That doesnt solve anything.
When are the "bigger" clubs in Tyrone going to accept a re-structure of the leagues without the fear their club will drop down. Proposals below still mean league and championship linked, and as long as you finish in top 16 league positions across top 2 divisions, you are still playing Senior Championship.

4 divisions - Equal split of 4 x 12/13 teams. Play everyone once - Half of which are starred, and introduce a cup to get a few more games. Top 16 league positions from previous year play Senior championship, next 16 intermediate and following 16 play Junior.
5 divisions - Equal split of 5 x 9/10 teams. Play everyone twice - Half of which are starred. Top 16 league positions from previous year play Senior championship, next 16 intermediate and following 16 play Junior.
6 divisions - Equal split of 6 x 8/9 teams. Play everyone twice - Half of which are starred. Division 1 & 2 teams play senior championship, Division 3 & 4 teams play intermediate championship and Division 5 & 6 teams play senior championship
#15
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone Club Football and Hurling
July 03, 2023, 12:51:14 PM
Quote from: Goals_Will_Come on July 02, 2023, 10:40:44 AM
Quote from: W.A.G. Lover on June 07, 2023, 12:22:44 PM
Below shows my interpretation of league fixtures for R6 to R15 of division 1 and 2 depending how far Tyrone get in All-Ireland Series.

   PQF 25/06   QF 02/07   SF 16/07   F 30/07
R6   30-Jun   07-Jul   21-Jul   04-Aug
R7   07-Jul   21-Jul   28-Jul   11-Aug
R8   21-Jul   28-Jul   04-Aug   18-Aug
R9   28-Jul   04-Aug   11-Aug   25-Aug
R10   04-Aug   11-Aug   18-Aug   01-Sep
R11   11-Aug   18-Aug   25-Aug   08-Sep
R12   18-Aug   25-Aug   01-Sep   15-Sep
R13   25-Aug   01-Sep   08-Sep   22-Sep
R14   01-Sep   08-Sep   15-Sep   29-Sep
R15   08-Sep   15-Sep   22-Sep   06-Oct

The Ulster Club Preliminary Round last year was 05/11/22 for Senior and Intermediate.
If Tyrone reach the All-Ireland Final, that leaves only 4 weeks to play Club Championship, which usually takes at least 6 weeks, with 1 week break prior to starting.
ACL be concluded on the 15th September then. Senior champ first round be down for weekend of September 28th then.

I checked the Tyrone Website - There is a double round of fixtures 18th & 20th August. So league is scheduled to be completed 8th September. I would anticipate Senior & Intermediate Club Championship to commence 22nd September? Allowing 6 weeks to be played out with finals on weekend of 27th October, and Ulster the following weekend. Going to be an intense few months of football ahead of us.
Where will Reserve Championship fit into all this? I would assume Sundays. Midweek fixtures wouldnt work as lads working away, etc.