Author Topic: Official Irish Football Association Thread (Northern Ireland)  (Read 75167 times)

Applesisapples

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Re: Official Irish Football Association Thread (Northern Ireland)
« Reply #1050 on: May 09, 2018, 09:28:44 AM »
What happened around the Cup Final last week is further evidence (in my opinion) that 20 years after the GFA we now live in a more divided society than we did during the Troubles.
And it will unfortunately continue to be divided so long as the state reflects only one community.

Thatís the core issue, that pervades all problems here.

No recognition or respect from the state , never mind unionism For an Irish identity here.

Unionism and the state had the opportunity in the 20 years post GFA to positively promote Irish identity as equal to British identity, which was the basic tenet of the GFA. It still hasnít happened.

This falsely manufactured statelet has had every opportunity for a century , to get its act together , but has failed.
Bar the recent clamour for an Irish Language Act, what ways could unionism and the state promote Irish identity?

They could stop all this Ulster is British crap. The UK has two bits and only the bigger bit is British. Some people can consider themselves British if they wish but the place is not Britain.
Are you happy with the assertion that NI is part of the UK?  You didn't really answer my uestion.
I am not happy with it, but I could be. If the state reflected my Irish Nationality and had closer institutionalised links with the rest of Ireland I don't think that I'd be rushing to completely leave the UK.

Applesisapples

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Re: Official Irish Football Association Thread (Northern Ireland)
« Reply #1051 on: May 09, 2018, 09:31:37 AM »
What happened around the Cup Final last week is further evidence (in my opinion) that 20 years after the GFA we now live in a more divided society than we did during the Troubles.
And it will unfortunately continue to be divided so long as the state reflects only one community.

Thatís the core issue, that pervades all problems here.

No recognition or respect from the state , never mind unionism For an Irish identity here.

Unionism and the state had the opportunity in the 20 years post GFA to positively promote Irish identity as equal to British identity, which was the basic tenet of the GFA. It still hasnít happened.

This falsely manufactured statelet has had every opportunity for a century , to get its act together , but has failed.
Bar the recent clamour for an Irish Language Act, what ways could unionism and the state promote Irish identity?

They don't need to promote anything really, just stop running down anything Irish would be helpful. Tell their followers they have nothing to fear from taking an interest in anything considered Irish. Show them that, by attending a gaa match, go to Bundoran for the weekend, send their kids to Irish dancing. Anything to normalise issues.

Unionist politicans might think they are attacking SF when speaking, but they also attack ordinary people who love their sport, language, music, traditions etc.
To be fair, your post from about 5 posts up does not really convey the views of someone with much respect for people from a unionist background.
I have said it before on here, but not every unionist votes for the DUP.  Many small 'u' unionists are happy to go to Dublin to watch the rugby, go to Donegal on holiday.  Such people tend to be quite comfortable as identifying as British, Northern Irish or Irish or whatever.
So back to my original question, what else could be done to promote an Irish identity?  What is being denied at present?
In addition to my post above stop putting Jamie Bryson on every TV and radio show as the voice of the PUL community.

michaelg

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Re: Official Irish Football Association Thread (Northern Ireland)
« Reply #1052 on: May 09, 2018, 06:38:36 PM »
What happened around the Cup Final last week is further evidence (in my opinion) that 20 years after the GFA we now live in a more divided society than we did during the Troubles.
And it will unfortunately continue to be divided so long as the state reflects only one community.

Thatís the core issue, that pervades all problems here.

No recognition or respect from the state , never mind unionism For an Irish identity here.

Unionism and the state had the opportunity in the 20 years post GFA to positively promote Irish identity as equal to British identity, which was the basic tenet of the GFA. It still hasnít happened.

This falsely manufactured statelet has had every opportunity for a century , to get its act together , but has failed.
Bar the recent clamour for an Irish Language Act, what ways could unionism and the state promote Irish identity?

They don't need to promote anything really, just stop running down anything Irish would be helpful. Tell their followers they have nothing to fear from taking an interest in anything considered Irish. Show them that, by attending a gaa match, go to Bundoran for the weekend, send their kids to Irish dancing. Anything to normalise issues.

Unionist politicans might think they are attacking SF when speaking, but they also attack ordinary people who love their sport, language, music, traditions etc.
To be fair, your post from about 5 posts up does not really convey the views of someone with much respect for people from a unionist background.
I have said it before on here, but not every unionist votes for the DUP.  Many small 'u' unionists are happy to go to Dublin to watch the rugby, go to Donegal on holiday.  Such people tend to be quite comfortable as identifying as British, Northern Irish or Irish or whatever.
So back to my original question, what else could be done to promote an Irish identity?  What is being denied at present?

Lets see acknowledgement of Irish history and culture. Monuments to Irish figures. Promotion and protection of Irish language (the 'clamour' as you call it). Street/road names de-anglicized. Irish flags and emblems given parity with British ones. Closer co-operation with Dublin on everything - certainly less slinging insults at them.
There is plenty of acknowledgement of irish history and culture.  Irish history is taught in catholic maintained schools, and state schools alike.  There are also Irish language programmes on BBCNI and Radio Ulster, or Radio 6 conties as wags on here call it.  You can also learn the Irish language and attend Irish dancing classes across NI, including in predominantly unionist areas.
As for my use of the word clamour, perhaps this was the wrong choice of word, but it is just a little odd that this has only relatively recently appeared on SF manifestos. I'm not sure what benefit would come from de-anglicising street / road names given the cost involved. Dual signs are already in existence on buses and street signs in many Nationalist areas. 
Given that the Union Jack is only flown on designated days on BCC buidings, and is not that evident on other goverment building elsewhere, I'm not sure how the parity with the Irish  flag would work.
Finally, there is also a great deal of cross-border cooperration on health and other matters.
The DUP, who are a shower of arseholes, however, really should refrain from slinging insults as you put it.  Despite being in bed with the Tories, however, they would really be the only ones who you could accuse of this.
There is also lots of funding now provided to improve facilities for Gaelic Games e.g. Ormeau Park and Cherryville GAA pitches provided by BCC, as well of lots of Sport NI funding for other club facilities.
As such, I would argue that there is alreadyplenty being done to promote the Irish identity as thing stand.  Not sure what is currently being denied.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 06:46:33 PM by michaelg »

michaelg

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Re: Official Irish Football Association Thread (Northern Ireland)
« Reply #1053 on: May 09, 2018, 06:42:04 PM »
What happened around the Cup Final last week is further evidence (in my opinion) that 20 years after the GFA we now live in a more divided society than we did during the Troubles.
And it will unfortunately continue to be divided so long as the state reflects only one community.

Thatís the core issue, that pervades all problems here.

No recognition or respect from the state , never mind unionism For an Irish identity here.

Unionism and the state had the opportunity in the 20 years post GFA to positively promote Irish identity as equal to British identity, which was the basic tenet of the GFA. It still hasnít happened.

This falsely manufactured statelet has had every opportunity for a century , to get its act together , but has failed.
Bar the recent clamour for an Irish Language Act, what ways could unionism and the state promote Irish identity?

They don't need to promote anything really, just stop running down anything Irish would be helpful. Tell their followers they have nothing to fear from taking an interest in anything considered Irish. Show them that, by attending a gaa match, go to Bundoran for the weekend, send their kids to Irish dancing. Anything to normalise issues.

Unionist politicans might think they are attacking SF when speaking, but they also attack ordinary people who love their sport, language, music, traditions etc.
To be fair, your post from about 5 posts up does not really convey the views of someone with much respect for people from a unionist background.
I have said it before on here, but not every unionist votes for the DUP.  Many small 'u' unionists are happy to go to Dublin to watch the rugby, go to Donegal on holiday.  Such people tend to be quite comfortable as identifying as British, Northern Irish or Irish or whatever.
So back to my original question, what else could be done to promote an Irish identity?  What is being denied at present?
In addition to my post above stop putting Jamie Bryson on every TV and radio show as the voice of the PUL community.
Couldn't agree more.  Other than him being on BBC NI & Radio Ulster programmes, I'm not sure what it has to do with my original question.

red hander

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Re: Official Irish Football Association Thread (Northern Ireland)
« Reply #1054 on: May 09, 2018, 08:49:57 PM »
I disagree. We should have Bryson on every radio and TV programme. Apart from him being comedy gold, every time he opens his mouth he puts another nail in the coffin of the failed, putrid statelet. The same goes for Robbie Coltrane

haranguerer

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Re: Official Irish Football Association Thread (Northern Ireland)
« Reply #1055 on: May 10, 2018, 08:44:22 AM »

There is plenty of acknowledgement of irish history and culture.  Irish history is taught in catholic maintained schools, and state schools alike.  There are also Irish language programmes on BBCNI and Radio Ulster, or Radio 6 conties as wags on here call it.  You can also learn the Irish language and attend Irish dancing classes across NI, including in predominantly unionist areas.
As for my use of the word clamour, perhaps this was the wrong choice of word, but it is just a little odd that this has only relatively recently appeared on SF manifestos. I'm not sure what benefit would come from de-anglicising street / road names given the cost involved. Dual signs are already in existence on buses and street signs in many Nationalist areas. 
Given that the Union Jack is only flown on designated days on BCC buidings, and is not that evident on other goverment building elsewhere, I'm not sure how the parity with the Irish  flag would work.
Finally, there is also a great deal of cross-border cooperration on health and other matters.
The DUP, who are a shower of arseholes, however, really should refrain from slinging insults as you put it.  Despite being in bed with the Tories, however, they would really be the only ones who you could accuse of this.
There is also lots of funding now provided to improve facilities for Gaelic Games e.g. Ormeau Park and Cherryville GAA pitches provided by BCC, as well of lots of Sport NI funding for other club facilities.
As such, I would argue that there is alreadyplenty being done to promote the Irish identity as thing stand.  Not sure what is currently being denied.

And your opinion is fairly typical of unionists. But you don't see that in your protests is the evidence that there is nowhere near parity given to the half of our society that identify as Irish. We live in a society where British culture has aggressively been given prominence. There needs to a be a fundamental shift to give equal prominence to both cultures. The small moves you talk about are just that, small, and aren't even close to redressing the balance.

One simple example in relation to flags - a democratic decision was taken to only fly the UJ on designated days (in line with elsewhere in UK). What do you think would be the reaction if a decision was taken to fly the tricolour on certain other designated days? In a society of parity, it shouldn't be an issue, should it?

johnnycool

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Re: Official Irish Football Association Thread (Northern Ireland)
« Reply #1056 on: May 10, 2018, 08:49:26 AM »
What happened around the Cup Final last week is further evidence (in my opinion) that 20 years after the GFA we now live in a more divided society than we did during the Troubles.
And it will unfortunately continue to be divided so long as the state reflects only one community.

Thatís the core issue, that pervades all problems here.

No recognition or respect from the state , never mind unionism For an Irish identity here.

Unionism and the state had the opportunity in the 20 years post GFA to positively promote Irish identity as equal to British identity, which was the basic tenet of the GFA. It still hasnít happened.

This falsely manufactured statelet has had every opportunity for a century , to get its act together , but has failed.
Bar the recent clamour for an Irish Language Act, what ways could unionism and the state promote Irish identity?

They don't need to promote anything really, just stop running down anything Irish would be helpful. Tell their followers they have nothing to fear from taking an interest in anything considered Irish. Show them that, by attending a gaa match, go to Bundoran for the weekend, send their kids to Irish dancing. Anything to normalise issues.

Unionist politicans might think they are attacking SF when speaking, but they also attack ordinary people who love their sport, language, music, traditions etc.
To be fair, your post from about 5 posts up does not really convey the views of someone with much respect for people from a unionist background.
I have said it before on here, but not every unionist votes for the DUP.  Many small 'u' unionists are happy to go to Dublin to watch the rugby, go to Donegal on holiday.  Such people tend to be quite comfortable as identifying as British, Northern Irish or Irish or whatever.
So back to my original question, what else could be done to promote an Irish identity?  What is being denied at present?

Lets see acknowledgement of Irish history and culture. Monuments to Irish figures. Promotion and protection of Irish language (the 'clamour' as you call it). Street/road names de-anglicized. Irish flags and emblems given parity with British ones. Closer co-operation with Dublin on everything - certainly less slinging insults at them.
There is plenty of acknowledgement of irish history and culture.  Irish history is taught in catholic maintained schools, and state schools alike.  There are also Irish language programmes on BBCNI and Radio Ulster, or Radio 6 conties as wags on here call it.  You can also learn the Irish language and attend Irish dancing classes across NI, including in predominantly unionist areas.
As for my use of the word clamour, perhaps this was the wrong choice of word, but it is just a little odd that this has only relatively recently appeared on SF manifestos. I'm not sure what benefit would come from de-anglicising street / road names given the cost involved. Dual signs are already in existence on buses and street signs in many Nationalist areas. 
Given that the Union Jack is only flown on designated days on BCC buidings, and is not that evident on other goverment building elsewhere, I'm not sure how the parity with the Irish  flag would work.
Finally, there is also a great deal of cross-border cooperration on health and other matters.
The DUP, who are a shower of arseholes, however, really should refrain from slinging insults as you put it.  Despite being in bed with the Tories, however, they would really be the only ones who you could accuse of this.
There is also lots of funding now provided to improve facilities for Gaelic Games e.g. Ormeau Park and Cherryville GAA pitches provided by BCC, as well of lots of Sport NI funding for other club facilities.
As such, I would argue that there is alreadyplenty being done to promote the Irish identity as thing stand.  Not sure what is currently being denied.

Should we be grateful for that considering we all pay rates?

My mates in North Down and Ards Borough Council are still very lacking in this regard

Keyser soze

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Re: Official Irish Football Association Thread (Northern Ireland)
« Reply #1057 on: May 10, 2018, 09:35:07 AM »
I suppose MichaelG's post really sums up the situation unfortunately. He probably considers himself to be a middle of the road unionist and would probably be considered as that by most posters on here, including myself who has always considered him to be reasonably levelheaded.   In comparison to a lot of unionist commentators that is likely where he would be placed.

Therefore to see his comments that indicate that he thinks there is parity in NI for Nationalists is wile depressing. If a middle-of-the-road unionist can quote these as examples of parity and tell nationalists to be happy with their lot we are indeed a long long way from getting a solution here as God knows what a bitter unionist thinks in these terms if that's a mainstream position. Depressing.

general_lee

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Re: Official Irish Football Association Thread (Northern Ireland)
« Reply #1058 on: May 10, 2018, 11:04:41 AM »
See ďthings that make you go wtf threadĒ

Milltown Row2

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Re: Official Irish Football Association Thread (Northern Ireland)
« Reply #1059 on: May 10, 2018, 11:56:42 AM »
I suppose MichaelG's post really sums up the situation unfortunately. He probably considers himself to be a middle of the road unionist and would probably be considered as that by most posters on here, including myself who has always considered him to be reasonably levelheaded.   In comparison to a lot of unionist commentators that is likely where he would be placed.

Therefore to see his comments that indicate that he thinks there is parity in NI for Nationalists is wile depressing. If a middle-of-the-road unionist can quote these as examples of parity and tell nationalists to be happy with their lot we are indeed a long long way from getting a solution here as God knows what a bitter unionist thinks in these terms if that's a mainstream position. Depressing.

Keyser, what is missing in your life? do you suffer from inequality at work, play, social, schooling, job prospects?

If the state was run like that for 80 odd years and equality only started seeping in for the last 20 years I personally think thats quicker than I expected growing up... Nationalists have made huge strides in N.I over the last 20 years...If you don't see that then you are blind..

Nationalists will get there, just don't expect it over night or the previous 'owners' to be happy about it
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

BennyCake

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Re: Official Irish Football Association Thread (Northern Ireland)
« Reply #1060 on: May 10, 2018, 12:20:46 PM »
I think in some cases Nationalists only realise they're being deprived of something because SF have highlighted it. Up until then, it wouldn't even have entered your head. The amount of people feeling outraged over this ILA is unbelievable. None of them have even bothered to learn Irish, yet they feel hard done by because SF told them they should.

Then SF poke the DUP bear with a stick over such issues and they of course say something stupid, and suddenly nationalists are even more outraged. But that is just the game SF and DUP play to keep people divided, and serves their purpose for existing.

As MR2 said, what is it that's missing for you? Will an ILA act really affect your everyday life? Gay marriage? A tricolour alongside a union fleg up on City hall? I seriously doubt it.

AQMP

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Re: Official Irish Football Association Thread (Northern Ireland)
« Reply #1061 on: May 10, 2018, 12:22:52 PM »
I suppose MichaelG's post really sums up the situation unfortunately. He probably considers himself to be a middle of the road unionist and would probably be considered as that by most posters on here, including myself who has always considered him to be reasonably levelheaded.   In comparison to a lot of unionist commentators that is likely where he would be placed.

Therefore to see his comments that indicate that he thinks there is parity in NI for Nationalists is wile depressing. If a middle-of-the-road unionist can quote these as examples of parity and tell nationalists to be happy with their lot we are indeed a long long way from getting a solution here as God knows what a bitter unionist thinks in these terms if that's a mainstream position. Depressing.

He's a Lundy!!!

haranguerer

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Re: Official Irish Football Association Thread (Northern Ireland)
« Reply #1062 on: May 10, 2018, 12:25:11 PM »
I think in some cases Nationalists only realise they're being deprived of something because SF have highlighted it. Up until then, it wouldn't even have entered your head. The amount of people feeling outraged over this ILA is unbelievable. None of them have even bothered to learn Irish, yet they feel hard done by because SF told them they should.

Then SF poke the DUP bear with a stick over such issues and they of course say something stupid, and suddenly nationalists are even more outraged. But that is just the game SF and DUP play to keep people divided, and serves their purpose for existing.

As MR2 said, what is it that's missing for you? Will an ILA act really affect your everyday life? Gay marriage? A tricolour alongside a union fleg up on City hall? I seriously doubt it.

This betrays ignorance to such a level as to deem a constructive response pointless.

general_lee

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Re: Official Irish Football Association Thread (Northern Ireland)
« Reply #1063 on: May 10, 2018, 01:29:53 PM »
I think in some cases Nationalists only realise they're being deprived of something because SF have highlighted it. Up until then, it wouldn't even have entered your head. The amount of people feeling outraged over this ILA is unbelievable. None of them have even bothered to learn Irish, yet they feel hard done by because SF told them they should.

Then SF poke the DUP bear with a stick over such issues and they of course say something stupid, and suddenly nationalists are even more outraged. But that is just the game SF and DUP play to keep people divided, and serves their purpose for existing.

As MR2 said, what is it that's missing for you? Will an ILA act really affect your everyday life? Gay marriage? A tricolour alongside a union fleg up on City hall? I seriously doubt it.

This betrays ignorance to such a level as to deem a constructive response pointless.
x100. I was going to respond to him  but I just deleted it.

Milltown Row2

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Re: Official Irish Football Association Thread (Northern Ireland)
« Reply #1064 on: May 10, 2018, 01:55:24 PM »
This threads as do others go away off discussion.... where's Evil Genius for a good discussion?
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)