Arlene's bigotry shines through

[Snapchap]

It's us in the 26 need to be guaranteed we won't be impoverished by subsidising the 6 Cos basket case.

Does anybody in the south have principles or does absolutely everything come down to money?

Responding to SF supporter Apples who said he won't be voting for a UI if it hurts his pocket.
But sure why not turn it into another "Free State"  bashing rant.
To the chap worried about housing g and homeless -when the first vote comes around that will be long in the past.

I wasn't really talking specifically about your reply to Apples. It was just that your reply prompted me to ask the question, as it's one that I often find myself wondering about.

[seafoid]

Northern Ireland was set up as an Orange statelet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOdFQloocLg

but the geographical spread of Orange people was too narrow so a large geographical space with Taigs had to be added to make the project viable in the short term. 

Rüdiger Dornbusch, a US-based German economist, said : "The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.

J. K. Galbraith  said :"The conventional wisdom" gives way not so much to new ideas as to "the massive onslaught of circumstances with which it cannot contend".

Arlene Foster does not understond what is happening either in terms of NI demographics or in terms of the UK economy.
Someone else has to tell the Orange people what is going on and how to deal with it. 

[Applesisapples]

It's us in the 26 need to be guaranteed we won't be impoverished by subsidising the 6 Cos basket case.

Does anybody in the south have principles or does absolutely everything come down to money?

Responding to SF supporter Apples who said he won't be voting for a UI if it hurts his pocket.
But sure why not turn it into another "Free State"  bashing rant.
To the chap worried about housing g and homeless -when the first vote comes around that will be long in the past.

Firstly I am not bashing the South, I object to the use of the term Free State as pejorative and my support for SF is not universal and I would be equally critical of them. Your description of my position is simplistic.  Why would I not wish my income and healthcare to be protected. The cost of living in the South is higher than the North with wages also higher. At my age I could not get affordable VHI therefore I need assurances before supporting any change. I am not ruling out a UI but it can't leave people worse off that won't work. Nor will it work if we ask southerners to subsidise us. SF and other pro UI parties need to sort all this out.

[WT4E]

Loads of people will have different views on it but IMO I would support it even if it did mean a hit on my pocket - So many people give up so much for it in the fight to get it I would feel pretty bad in myself saying well I'm going to have £5k less every year

[Taylor]

Loads of people will have different views on it but IMO I would support it even if it did mean a hit on my pocket - So many people give up so much for it in the fight to get it I would feel pretty bad in myself saying well I'm going to have £5k less every year

Correct - many will have differing views.

If a nationalist with a small n is currently struggling to live to a decent standard of living I dont for a minute think they would be happy being £5k down to be in a UI

[Rossfan]

Apples - wasn't accusing you of "Free State" bashing if you read my post and the post I responded to.
Anyway of course economics and cost will be the decider for most.
Ifa "Border poll" was held tomorrow I'd say 40% would vote to stay with the UK no matter what, 20% for UI no matter what. Without a coherent plan for UI the other 40% will vote to stay as well.
In 20 years time we'll be at 25/35/40 but if there's a coherent plan devised etc etc hopefully that will be 40/28 and with 32 up for grabs.

[Rossfan]

Just wondering why is it taken as a given that 6 Cos residents would be down  £5k in a UI.?
Would their pay not rise to the equivalent of the 26 Co workers? ?
It's us who would likely be down €5k as things are at present.

[GJL]

Apples - wasn't accusing you of "Free State" bashing if you read my post and the post I responded to.
Anyway of course economics and cost will be the decider for most.
Ifa "Border poll" was held tomorrow I'd say 40% would vote to stay with the UK no matter what, 20% for UI no matter what. Without a coherent plan for UI the other 40% will vote to stay as well.
In 20 years time we'll be at 25/35/40 but if there's a coherent plan devised etc etc hopefully that will be 40/28 and with 32 up for grabs.

In 20 years time I think there is a good chance there will be a UI. There will most certainly have been at least one border poll. I don't expect the first one to be successful and it will take 2 or 3 to get the desired result.

[haranguerer]

And that will probably be the most common position. I didn't mean to be disparaging by referring to 'short-term grumblers' - people have to look after themselves and ensure they have the best future they can - but I believe those grumbles will be well alleviated by the time a vote comes round, i.e. there will be money available so as to give immediate, rather than merely aspirational economic benefits

You've made some very good points haranguerer.
There are issues in the South that many Northerners would want to see tackled. Housing and homelessness being a major one. The South needs to tackle these effectively. Reunification will throw up lots of hurdles expected and unexpected. Being able to demonstrate an ability to tackle them would be key.

And that's why it isn't only Sinn Fein needs to welcome unionists. All pro unity parties should be making the case

Although imo they are making great strides in reaching out to Unionists, there is the likelihood this will not ever be reciprocated - SF will remain toxic for unionists. As a UI becomes ever more likely, there would certainly be the scenario whereby unionists could be wooed by another AI party, which would allow them to maintain their opposition to SF, probably be in a scenario where they could deny them southern/AI government, and so be able to have enough of a constant that going into an AI may not feel like the politcial upheaval it could - if they were going into a state with SF in govt for e.g. That scenario seems convoluted, but I don't think its unlikely, and if it were to be followed it would make sense for those parties who may be doing the wooing to be very gentle with it.

My point is, that we certainly need all the Irish parties to have plans for implementation of a UI, but key to at least some of those plans will be not pushing them too early, as that is just likely to isolate unionists. Unionists need to accept a UI is likely before they will listen to any plans - at this point it will just cause them to pull up the drawbridge.

[Hardy]

It's us in the 26 need to be guaranteed we won't be impoverished by subsidising the 6 Cos basket case.

Does anybody in the south have principles or does absolutely everything come down to money?

Does anybody in the North have a brain or does absolutely everything come down to us v. them?
- How do you like it?

[haranguerer]

Just wondering why is it taken as a given that 6 Cos residents would be down  £5k in a UI.?
Would their pay not rise to the equivalent of the 26 Co workers? ?
It's us who would likely be down €5k as things are at present.

It can only have been hypothetical. It is much more likely that everyone would benefit.

[Hardy]

Just wondering why is it taken as a given that 6 Cos residents would be down  £5k in a UI.?
Would their pay not rise to the equivalent of the 26 Co workers? ?
It's us who would likely be down €5k as things are at present.

It's laughable, really. Some North Koreans probably fear reunification because a carthorse costs more in the South.

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/star-trek-boldly-predicting-the-return-of-the-north-in-2024-might-yet-come-to-pass/

Exports from the Republic are €89bn while from the North, exports are a paltry €6bn. This obviously reflects multinationals, but it also underscores just how far ahead the Republic's industrial base is. Producing 15 times more exports underscores a vast difference in terms of the globalisation of business.

The Republic's economy is now four times that of the North, even though the labour force is not even two-and-a-half times bigger.

In terms of income per head, the Republic is now almost twice as rich per person as the North. The average income per head in the Republic is €39,873, while it languishes at €23,700 up North.

The differing fortunes of North and South can be easily seen in the fact that, having been smaller than Belfast at the time of partition, the population of the greater Dublin area is now almost three times bigger than the greater Belfast metropolitan region.

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/northern-ireland-and-the-trip-advisor-index-of-economic-vibrancy/

Immigration is a traditional indicator of economic vitality. In the Republic, one in six people are immigrants, the corresponding figure for the North is one in a hundred.

[AQMP]

Yes, McWilliams sums it up well when he says (paraphrasing here) that "People from the North complain about the price of a pint in Dublin.  What they really should be saying is why are my wages so low"

[BennyCake]

Yes, McWilliams sums it up well when he says (paraphrasing here) that "People from the North complain about the price of a pint in Dublin.  What they really should be saying is why are my wages so low"

...or don't go near Dublin.

[haranguerer]

Benefits of unification also that there is greater potential to redress a dublin centric enonomy