Refugees

Started by Mayo4Sam14, September 03, 2015, 04:42:21 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

finbar o tool

#135
Itchy, you cut me deep man...  ;D

You are sort of right though, i did in fact misread what you said, but after reading it back it was an easy mistake to make. I just got muddled in your mumbo jumbo nonsense!
[/quote]
On what basis to you make the assumption these people are coming for benefits. That is xenophobia, if you are too stupid to understand that then go back to school.
[/quote]

That doesn't even make sense!

I have an opinion, which im entitled to, if you have anything decent to contribute, apart from terrible name calling, then please do, if not, jog on!

An amateur requires a personal commitment that money cannot buy

foxcommander

Quote from: macdanger2 on September 13, 2015, 09:04:35 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 13, 2015, 05:45:46 AM
Quote from: finbar o tool on September 12, 2015, 11:45:05 PM
Quote from: gallsman on September 12, 2015, 09:59:52 AM
Quote from: Itchy on September 11, 2015, 06:14:25 PM
I think I speak for the majority when I say  foxcommander I hope you die roaring you horrible ****.

I think you presume too much on who you speak for.

Agree with Gallsman. Seen an article on facebook today about the 1000 or so people that took to the streets today to welcome the refugees and fight for more of them to be taken in to the country! The vast majority of the hundreds of comments on the article were against it.
The one line that stuck with me from the whole article above by GHD was this - "All they want is to start a better life in the UK(im sure Ireland would do just fine either), that is the one goal uniting everyone". This tells us that these are not people just trying to get themselves to safety, and then return home when its safe again. This tells us that they are looking for an easy way into a country where they can get benefits and settle down for the rest of their lives.
Its the kind of thing the country wont regret until its too late.
Anyway, it doesnt matter what any of us think about the whole situation, we have no say in it! Its happening!

One of my major concerns about this mass migration is background checks on all those who are fleeing. While I'm sure there is a sizeable number who are genuine in their plight there will always be those who jump on the bandwagon and screw it up for the rest.

Now have those who are leaving Africa/middle east/asia all got some sort background history (sex offenders/murderers/other) to check on or is it a "y'all come on in" attitude?

I'd use the UK as an example of integration done badly if not thought out properly...which is probably beyond the comprehension of any irish government. IF they don't start getting it right you'll end up with no-go areas and campaigns for sharia law..not sure if Kenny has the backbone to turn down that request :D

If people are genuine about getting out of danger then I don't see why temporary visas until certain conflicts are resolved aren't the way to go. Then resolve the issues in the host country diplomatically (or by force, depending on the situation). everything else just seems like opportunism to use a conflict as an excuse.
But there are those out there who can't see how they will be screwing up countries for future generations for the sake of giving themselves a pat on the back and feeling smug right now. I fail to see any positives in all of this.

So you're happy enough to welcome these refugees so long as it's on a temporary basis until their own country is safe??

Is that such a bad suggestion? Give the UN time to get its act together and deploy a peacekeeping force so these people can return to their homes.

Every second of the day there's a Democrat telling a lie

foxcommander

From Radio Presenter Gareth O'Callaghan


An open letter to An Taoiseach, Enda Kenny, TD.

Dear Enda,

You might never get to read this as I know how busy you are; but maybe someone who closely knows you will, and for that I am grateful. I have something I need to get off my chest, and I believe that you are the man to write to.

The land of Syria is currently in a state of flux, much as it was during the reign of Quirinius, during the lifetime of Jesus. History is repeating itself, as it does.

Perhaps it's because of our close links to Christ's history and teachings that 7,000 Irish people have this weekend very kindly offered to open their doors to the thousands of Syrian refugees that you have agreed can come and make Ireland their home.

Maybe it's because of our Christian benevolence that we feel passionately the need to reach out and take in these desperate families; or maybe it's because of the heartbreaking picture of a small child lying dead on a Turkish beach two weeks ago that has since become etched into the Irish psyche.

We are indeed a very vocal and passionate people. We despise injustice and inhumanity. We have witnessed during the 70s and 80s ourselves what coming close to a religious war has meant for our people. Your decision to accept these people, undoubtedly saving many lives in doing so, is to be commended. I have no doubt they will be welcomed with open arms when they arrive. But what then?

By that I mean what happens to them then? I need to categorically state at the outset here that I see a need here to save lives, and that is precisely what we will be doing by allowing them to resettle here. Genuine refugees, victims of a humanitarian crisis - a bloody religious war, need to be supported. That is what you aim to do in the next few weeks. But what then?

There is a growing un-ease here at home. I can sense it in the air. People are uncomfortable because they feel that this is not being planned logistically. Relocating 4,000 people, most of whom don't speak english, needs precision planning and long-sighted anticipation. I don't see any of that anywhere. They need language and cultural support. I don't see that either.

Let's get real here. We are unable to look after our own. Have we not learned from that alone? Our failure to look after our own poor and vulnerable has become a shameful crisis of embarrassing proportions - one that this government continues to sweep further under the carpet. Well I have news for you, the carpet is running a bit thread-bare at this stage.

Our homelessness crisis is now nothing short of a scandal. Young families are now roaming the streets, sleeping in doorways to stay warm and dry. You promised to have 'every single homeless person off the streets' by last Christmas. That never happened.

Will it take the death of a tiny homeless Irish boy in a doorway on some dark winter's night to make you realise that this cannot continue. Or are you another Taoiseach who just keeps on kicking the can down the street?

Over the past seven years a huge number of deaths, many of them suicides, could have been avoided by more insightful and astute care and attention by your government; but your main problem is that you are running a failed, out-of-date system. Systems don't work. History sings that song.

You and I have shared the same stage at a number of charity events over the years. I feel honoured to be on first name terms with you. You have my number, I have yours. I have heard the passion in your voice when you speak about many humanitarian issues that are close to your heart. Your handshake makes me smile. You are a man who knows the value of a serious hug. You are not a typical man; and for that you climb high in my esteem.

As a person, I find you decent, kind and amicable. There is a personal integrity in you that is rare. But I am beginning to think that I am losing you in that world of neanderthal politicians that you inhabit - a world you resisted, criticised, and have showed contempt for on many occasions in the past.

Please tell us what is happening here with these refugees. Genuine refugees need to be supported; but of the 4,000 due here (mostly men), how many of them are gold-diggers? How many of them are on the run for murder and rape crimes? Human beings are not toys. They are not just for Christmas. These people need respect; but respect is a two-way street.

When they get here, what provisions are in place to support them - emotionally and economically? Many of them will have serious health issues, both mental and physical, that they will need support for. Many of them will inevitably end up on the streets, and some of them will resort to crime to support their needs.

Their families will follow, according to the so-called plan. The final number could be as high as 30,000. Let's put that into perspective. Ireland has 12,000 gardai. In Dublin alone there are only 1,000 gardai on duty at any one time. This is a huge additional burden on a police force that is creaking under lack of resources and morale - yet another unacceptable fact which rests on your doorstep.

And finally that brings me to Noel. I met Noel one Thursday night two weeks ago. It was just after 10pm. He was buying his wife and two young sons burgers and chips in McDonalds. He saw me and said hello. He was trying to get his family into a hostel or B&B for the night but they were all full since 6pm that evening so they were facing a night in a doorway.

Thankfully a call came through as I was talking to them. Noel was a very successful self-employed businessman until his business collapsed and the bank took his house back. He is homeless, along with a wife and two young children.

No one is underestimating the sheer horror of what faces these Syrian families on a daily basis. To risk death by taking a small boat across the Meditteranean Straits if it meant a better, safer quality of life for my children? Yes I would chance it if it meant that they might survive and prosper.

But what about our own homeless? What about families here who are just about managing to keep a roof above their heads by skipping on food and heating right now? What must they think about how quickly you can make decisions such as this one? What about their humanitarian needs? Charity begins at home.

You seem to keep making the point that the quality of life is getting better here, Taoiseach. The truth is it's not. It's just about similar to straddling the bar at the side of a swimming pool for most people who can't swim. Let go of the bar and I drown. Get real.

Thank you for giving these poor souls a second chance. I am certain many of them will have so much to offer this great country of ours. But please don't forget about those people who shook hands on their doorsteps with many of your colleagues prior to all of you being elected: the same people who are hoping for a warm bed tonight in a homeless shelter - the same people who must be wondering, What next?

With respect,

Gareth O'Callaghan
Every second of the day there's a Democrat telling a lie

macdanger2

Quote from: foxcommander on September 14, 2015, 05:18:22 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 13, 2015, 09:04:35 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 13, 2015, 05:45:46 AM
Quote from: finbar o tool on September 12, 2015, 11:45:05 PM
Quote from: gallsman on September 12, 2015, 09:59:52 AM
Quote from: Itchy on September 11, 2015, 06:14:25 PM
I think I speak for the majority when I say  foxcommander I hope you die roaring you horrible ****.

I think you presume too much on who you speak for.

Agree with Gallsman. Seen an article on facebook today about the 1000 or so people that took to the streets today to welcome the refugees and fight for more of them to be taken in to the country! The vast majority of the hundreds of comments on the article were against it.
The one line that stuck with me from the whole article above by GHD was this - "All they want is to start a better life in the UK(im sure Ireland would do just fine either), that is the one goal uniting everyone". This tells us that these are not people just trying to get themselves to safety, and then return home when its safe again. This tells us that they are looking for an easy way into a country where they can get benefits and settle down for the rest of their lives.
Its the kind of thing the country wont regret until its too late.
Anyway, it doesnt matter what any of us think about the whole situation, we have no say in it! Its happening!

One of my major concerns about this mass migration is background checks on all those who are fleeing. While I'm sure there is a sizeable number who are genuine in their plight there will always be those who jump on the bandwagon and screw it up for the rest.

Now have those who are leaving Africa/middle east/asia all got some sort background history (sex offenders/murderers/other) to check on or is it a "y'all come on in" attitude?

I'd use the UK as an example of integration done badly if not thought out properly...which is probably beyond the comprehension of any irish government. IF they don't start getting it right you'll end up with no-go areas and campaigns for sharia law..not sure if Kenny has the backbone to turn down that request :D

If people are genuine about getting out of danger then I don't see why temporary visas until certain conflicts are resolved aren't the way to go. Then resolve the issues in the host country diplomatically (or by force, depending on the situation). everything else just seems like opportunism to use a conflict as an excuse.
But there are those out there who can't see how they will be screwing up countries for future generations for the sake of giving themselves a pat on the back and feeling smug right now. I fail to see any positives in all of this.

So you're happy enough to welcome these refugees so long as it's on a temporary basis until their own country is safe??

Is that such a bad suggestion? Give the UN time to get its act together and deploy a peacekeeping force so these people can return to their homes.

I was asking a genuine question!

Something like that would be perfectly reasonable tbh

Treasurer

I keep seeing comments about not helping refugees because our homeless situation is so bad.  Why does it have to be an either/or? Homeless people need help, simple as that, ALL of them.

foxcommander

Quote from: Treasurer on September 15, 2015, 08:54:01 PM
I keep seeing comments about not helping refugees because our homeless situation is so bad.  Why does it have to be an either/or? Homeless people need help, simple as that, ALL of them.

Unfortunately It's not an either/or situation - it's a neither.

If you don't have the resources to look after the people who already live in the country and are on the brink then how can you expect to look after another 4000 (rising to maybe 30000) people who will need everything from homes to clothes to food?

It's the big man scenario, enda trying to be a player on the euro stage.

Every second of the day there's a Democrat telling a lie

give her dixie

#141
A French Government run charity provide one hot meal per day in Calais. People line up for hours to get what is on offer.

Nearly every day they run out.

This is what it is like in the rain

This is Europe, this is France, this is down the road, this is lack of humanity on a grand scale.

May I add, people will see this image in different ways.

I know what I see.......





next stop, September 10, for number 4......

armaghniac

Quote from: give her dixie on September 15, 2015, 10:39:55 PM
A French Government run charity provide one hot meal per day in Calais. People line up for hours to get what is on offer.

Nearly every day they run out.

This is what it is like in the rain

This is Europe, this is France, this is down the road, this is lack of humanity on a grand scale.



France has an asylum seeking procedure which most of people have not availed of, does it not?
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

give her dixie

Quote from: armaghniac on September 15, 2015, 10:50:04 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on September 15, 2015, 10:39:55 PM
A French Government run charity provide one hot meal per day in Calais. People line up for hours to get what is on offer.

Nearly every day they run out.

This is what it is like in the rain

This is Europe, this is France, this is down the road, this is lack of humanity on a grand scale.



France has an asylum seeking procedure which most of people have not availed of, does it not?

Why are you asking me a question that you already know the answer to?
next stop, September 10, for number 4......

armaghniac

Quote from: give her dixie on September 15, 2015, 11:02:15 PM
Why are you asking me a question that you already know the answer to?

Because, if the French are willing to help people, but those people won't fill in the form, then it has been their choice and so does not represent "inhumanity" on the part of the French government. If I had no money and I went to the welfare office and they said we can help, but you have to fill in this form and that form, then I should do that.

The criminality, breaking into trucks and whatnot, in Calais is scandalous. Any of these breaking the law should be sentenced to community service in Reunion looking for aircraft parts.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

give her dixie

Quote from: armaghniac on September 15, 2015, 11:07:50 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on September 15, 2015, 11:02:15 PM
Why are you asking me a question that you already know the answer to?

Because, if the French are willing to help people, but those people won't fill in the form, then it has been their choice and so does not represent "inhumanity" on the part of the French government. If I had no money and I went to the welfare office and they said we can help, but you have to fill in this form and that form, then I should do that.

The criminality, breaking into trucks and whatnot, in Calais is scandalous. Any of these breaking the law should be sentenced to community service in Reunion looking for aircraft parts.

Right Mr Keyboard warrior, how about you head down there as you feel so strongly about it and you tell those people
what you have just told me to their face?

Tell that to the people who have sold everything they have, doctors, teachers, builders, etc
in order to get to where they are now, be it Calais, Munich, Serbia, etc. 

Tell that to those at the back of the line for food in the rain, but be sure to tell them after they get near the front
and the food runs out and they have to go hungry another day.

Tell them twice in case they didn't hear you the 1st time.

Tell them you know about mass migration from Ireland due to famine and war, and how you disapprove of them
trying to flee what our ancestors, parents, brothers or sisters did.

Go on big stuff, would you have the courage?

I will pay your expenses just to hear you tell one single person in that line what you have just said above.
next stop, September 10, for number 4......

armaghniac

Quote from: give her dixie on September 15, 2015, 11:22:45 PM
Right Mr Keyboard warrior, how about you head down there as you feel so strongly about it and you tell those people
what you have just told me to their face?

the worth or otherwise of my argument is not determined by my making it here.
Quite simply, the contention that people can enter countries against the wishes of the that countries inhabitants is not sustainable. There is a name for people entering places uninvited, it is called invasion.
People arguing for this do no good whatsoever for refugees as people anywhere will oppose invasion and even those who start off facilitating this will reverse their views, as Germany has now done.


QuoteGo on big stuff, would you have the courage?

Are you suggesting that I would be in danger? If I would be in danger does that not support my point?
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

give her dixie

#147
Quote from: armaghniac on September 15, 2015, 11:47:02 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on September 15, 2015, 11:22:45 PM
Right Mr Keyboard warrior, how about you head down there as you feel so strongly about it and you tell those people
what you have just told me to their face?

the worth or otherwise of my argument is not determined by my making it here.
Quite simply, the contention that people can enter countries against the wishes of the that countries inhabitants is not sustainable. There is a name for people entering places uninvited, it is called invasion.
People arguing for this do no good whatsoever for refugees as people anywhere will oppose invasion and even those who start off facilitating this will reverse their views, as Germany has now done.


QuoteGo on big stuff, would you have the courage?

Are you suggesting that I would be in danger? If I would be in danger does that not support my point?

So you're saying that the thousands and thousands of Irish who entered the US without correct paperwork "Invaded" the place?

I have heard many stories about immigration from Ireland, but this is the 1st that I have heard it called an "Invasion"

As for your safety, or mine for that matter. I have a general rule of thumb.

Anything I have to say on here or anywhere else I would say it to you or anyone else's face.

The same goes for those in Calais, Munich, or wherever.

It's that simple. either Walk the walk, or talk the talk..........
next stop, September 10, for number 4......

armaghniac

#148
Quote from: give her dixie on September 15, 2015, 11:57:59 PM
So you're saying that the thousands and thousands of Irish who entered the US without correct paperwork "Invaded" the place?

I have heard many stories about immigration from Ireland, but this is the 1st that I have heard it called an "Invasion"

The number of Irish arriving in the US is largely immaterial to the size of the US population and didn't change its composition as it had always had a significant proportion of Irish people. I don't condone Irish people breaking the law in the US either, but in most cases they simply overstayed a visa, so they US knew who they were and the issue arose in how long they stayed. The actual identity of at least some of those in Calais is in question. Perhaps you think that the US should turf out the illegal Irish and take an equivalent number of Syrians?

On a related subject Google will match the first 5m of donations
https://onetoday.google.com/page/refugeerelief?c=IE
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

whitey

Are people afraid that the migrants/refugees won't assimilate and we'll end up with a situation like in England with Hate preachers, grooming gangs and jihadists.

Maybe I'm not paying attention to all news sources, but when the likes of that cvnt Choudry starts up with his hate speech in London, why aren't  there 5000 decent Muslims out there counter protesting shouting him down?

The vast majority of Muslims are decent people but the only ones we hear about are the bad ones.

If anyone thinks we can't all live peacefully side by side should read this article

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/gaa-club-s-integration-policy-pays-off-in-ireland-s-most-ethnically-diverse-town-1.2237262