Messages

[The football provincials are not much more than a warm-up before the serious business starts with the group stages.]

Outside of occasionally Armagh and Dublin, no football teams fans can really hold a candle to Munster hurling teams at the moment

Not really fair comparing with the completely different setup in hurling.

The football provincials are not much more than a warm-up before the serious business starts with the group stages.

The Munster hurling round-robin has real jeopardy with every single game being critical given 40% of the teams taking part will be finished for the summer in a few weeks (and possibly even sooner depending on how results go).

This is definitely how fans view the provincials but the reality is you're probably facing a slow death if you don't win the province. The benefits of winning a province are massive - avoid Kerry, Dublin and Ulster champs in the groups, 2 in 3 chance of getting Clare and louth/Kildare as the seed 2. presuming you use this leg up to win the group you probably again avoid Dublin and Kerry and Ulster champs in quarter finals.

Seems like a lot of similar old failings for mayo - concession of goals, trying to run everything from the back despite this 20s team having good forwards.

Andy had them well drilled to foul in that last 15-20 to prevent any chance of a goal. Again something mayo could do with learning.

[utter gibberish and without a scintilla of merit?]

Armagh team:

Rafferty

Morgan
Mckay
Forker


McCabe
C O'Neill
J Burns

Crealey
Ciaran Mackin

Grugan
Duffy
Campbell

Murnin
R O'Neill
Nugent

Subs:

Magill (GK)
Higgins
McCambridge
McQuillan
Cumiskey
Connaire Mackin
McPartlan
Turbitt
Hall
McConville
Conaty

Would it be fair to say Armagh don't know what their strongest team is? Every time I see an Armagh 15 there are changes -McCambridge, McQuillan, Connaire Mackin, McPartlan Turbitt, Hall - feel like all these lads have either started or been very involved in recent games, hard to build chemistry with so much chopping and changing.

Few teams stick to an exact 15 week in week out but there is a fair degree with continuity with almost all variations explained by knocks. Not sure when you saw McQuillan or Connaire Mackin named or drafted in before throwing  but I'm sure you will fill us in on the deets

Yeah tbf you've called my bluff a little bit  in mcquillans case, any time he's come on I've thought he should potentially be starting (which is why I've said "has been very involved") and as an outsider I could well have been confusing the two mackin's but I had thought I had seen potential in connaire, though I maybe I'm wrong. I think the point probably stands though. If we're saying Galway, Kerry and Dublin are the three front runners you could name 12-13 of their starters with reasonable certainty, I always find when an Armagh teamsheet is named it can be a guessing game as to who is in or out.

I Used to feel the same about Roscommon maybe 3 or 4 years ago - you'd never know whether both murtaghs or both smiths (even the dalys sometimes) would be starting, but now they seem reasonably settled and I think its standing to them.

Your post(s) don't make any sense.

Armagh name fairly consistent teams. Max of 3 changes and usually less that that. Massive consistency. Probably the side in Ireland most likely to start the named team. The premise of your posts seems freaky.

Because you think MCQuillan has done well when he comes on that in your opinion constitutes evidence that Armagh don't know their strongest team!! You are really going to talk me through the sequencing of your logic there?

Your other evidence being a confusion between 2 players ( one that has consistently started and one that consistently hasn't).

It's possible, just possible that your posts are utter gibberish and without a scintilla of merit?

Alright pal chill - I was only asking a question as to whether Armagh people think the lineups have been changeable - not saying this makes them a good or a bad team just looking for opinion.

anyway now you've gone and made me do some research (which I know already is going to be shot down citing injuries etc but sure isnt the point of forums to throw out some discussion)

vs Antrim - mccambridge/mcpartlan/hall/turbitt all started. (Tiernan Kelly also - no need to tell me - I'll presume he's currently injured)
vs cavan - mcpartlan/hall/turbitt start
vs down - same again - mcpartlan/hall/turbitt start
vs derry - mcpartlan/mccambridge/turbitt

I'm not trying to pull off some gotcha here, just wondering what ye think. is it horses for courses? is it injury? has halls form dropped? is it that soupy has to start? looking above I get the feeling there'll be 1-2 changes before throw in

Armagh team:

Rafferty

Morgan
Mckay
Forker


McCabe
C O'Neill
J Burns

Crealey
Ciaran Mackin

Grugan
Duffy
Campbell

Murnin
R O'Neill
Nugent

Subs:

Magill (GK)
Higgins
McCambridge
McQuillan
Cumiskey
Connaire Mackin
McPartlan
Turbitt
Hall
McConville
Conaty

Would it be fair to say Armagh don't know what their strongest team is? Every time I see an Armagh 15 there are changes -McCambridge, McQuillan, Connaire Mackin, McPartlan Turbitt, Hall - feel like all these lads have either started or been very involved in recent games, hard to build chemistry with so much chopping and changing.

Few teams stick to an exact 15 week in week out but there is a fair degree with continuity with almost all variations explained by knocks. Not sure when you saw McQuillan or Connaire Mackin named or drafted in before throwing  but I'm sure you will fill us in on the deets

Yeah tbf you've called my bluff a little bit  in mcquillans case, any time he's come on I've thought he should potentially be starting (which is why I've said "has been very involved") and as an outsider I could well have been confusing the two mackin's but I had thought I had seen potential in connaire, though I maybe I'm wrong. I think the point probably stands though. If we're saying Galway, Kerry and Dublin are the three front runners you could name 12-13 of their starters with reasonable certainty, I always find when an Armagh teamsheet is named it can be a guessing game as to who is in or out.

I Used to feel the same about Roscommon maybe 3 or 4 years ago - you'd never know whether both murtaghs or both smiths (even the dalys sometimes) would be starting, but now they seem reasonably settled and I think its standing to them.

Armagh team:

Rafferty

Morgan
Mckay
Forker


McCabe
C O'Neill
J Burns

Crealey
Ciaran Mackin

Grugan
Duffy
Campbell

Murnin
R O'Neill
Nugent

Subs:

Magill (GK)
Higgins
McCambridge
McQuillan
Cumiskey
Connaire Mackin
McPartlan
Turbitt
Hall
McConville
Conaty

Would it be fair to say Armagh don't know what their strongest team is? Every time I see an Armagh 15 there are changes -McCambridge, McQuillan, Connaire Mackin, McPartlan Turbitt, Hall - feel like all these lads have either started or been very involved in recent games, hard to build chemistry with so much chopping and changing.

[In my eyes it's only when you really beat one of the top 3 or 4 teams from the year before that you be truly considered an AI contender]

I was looking back over the last 20 years at what teams were making the AI semifinals the most and have listed below, the last 10 years semi finalists. No surprise with the top 3 anyway although amazing Tipp have made more semis than any other Ulster team bar Tyrone. Interestingly back in the 00's you had Cork and Meath up there too.

Obviously for years we are used to Kerry and Dublin being the two main favourites to make it into the semis or the final but Mayo in the last 10 years have joined them with Galway nowhere to be seen for years until recently.
The Ulster champions have a tendency to put in great performances in Ulster and provide good early form but then often disappoint in Croker. Donegal and Monaghan have been doing this for years although Derry reached their first semi last year since 2004, although they did easily hammer Clare.

Galway lost to the Super Dubs in 2018 whilst Monaghan made their first semifinal since the All Ireland series started but still struggle to win in HQ.

In my eyes it's only when you really beat one of the top 3 or 4 teams from the year before that you be truly considered an AI contender. Tyrone hadn't beaten Kerry, Dublin or Mayo from 2008 until 2021 although they did get to a few semis.

I'm a little surprised how many people are talking up this Galway team who got to the final last year but hadn't beaten any of so called big guns on the way. They beat the Rossies in the Connacht final and then struggled to beat Armagh. They did beat Derry quite well in the end in a very defensive match with both teams seemingly at similar levels during the league.

Galway put up a good performance in the final but in my eyes they are being slightly over stated as one of this years strong favourites just on last years showing. I suppose they have improved a bit during the league and with Walsh and Comer in their team they are always in with a good shout. In my eyes Walsh didn't really stand out all year except in the final whilst Comer was the opposite.
I'm sure Mayo are loving such talk and would relish meeting them later in the year.

Team       Semifinal appearances in last 10 years
Dublin   10
Kerry     8
Mayo      8
Tyrone   6
Galway   2
Tipp       2
Donegal  1
Derry      1
Monaghan1
Cavan      1

Don't necessarily disagree with the overall thesis that Galway are being overrated at the minute and have a lot to prove, but is the win over Mayo in Connacht first round last year worth nothing given they were in the final the previous year? Are we back to wins bring irrelevant unless they are at the knockout stage, I know that's what some Mayo fans have said. Or do you mean you have to beat Kerry or Dublin. What would constitute beating a big gun this year? Genuine question by the way, take no offence at anything negative said there about Galway.

Point of order on Galway Derry though, played them twice and dismantled them both times.

I think putting it up to Kerry in the final last year probably gives Galway more clout than beating Mayo, because it works different when playing your neighbour and rival (see Mayo v Roscommon this year). saying that, beating Mayo last year + good showing in AIF + performances to date from Galway this year + recognisably decent players in every position is what maybe accelerates them in the rankings vs past performance as expected above. That and the lack of an obvious clear favourite.

Ref very poor.

No yellow for morgan ?

If you give yellows for a slight tug on a jersey there wouldnt be a player left on any gaa pitch

Ah but he's a Tyrone man. Should be a straight red! 

Jaysis lads ye are awful persecuted against - we were complaining Roscommon last week for playing the rule book to perfection also. It's really not a ye thing. You are correct in that it's not card worthy but it should be. The rule book has become a tactic to take advantage of.

[not be the one caught giving the nudge.]

The first jump ball was a very clear foul by AOS.
The ref was quite harsh on Ros to reverse the foul and order another throw ball.
The second foul wasn't as clearcut and he might have got away with it had that been the initial throw ball. But knowing the ref is going to be watching both players very closely for an early nudge so that he can be consistent, AOS needed to be a bit more clued in and not be the one caught giving the nudge.

I think this suggests that if the rossie gave a nudge (for the second one, agree the first was free-awardable) the ref would have given a scorable free in? I dont think any ref is doing that from a hop ball.

I was surprised to see only 1 going up.
But both teams played for the same amount of time.

I feel like every post has to be qualified by saying Roscommon were fully deserving of their win - Mayo were putrid - I counted 6 mayo turnovers and winning 2 opposition kickouts in that first half and we could only muster 4 points with the wind. In saying that one team had 5 extra minutes with the wind!

But to Joemamas timekeeping - can any referee tell me is it only time added on for injuries or does officiating also come into it? or is totally "at the referees discretion?"

the issue as always with reffing is consistency - whether its in-game inconsistency between two teams, but also 2 different referees will ref differently. I'm totally happy to admit Mayo got the soft calls in the league final - or rather Galway didn't get the soft calls - there was definitely two challenges on Damien Comer that were equal to what Mayo were getting frees for - either don't give mayo and Galway them or give both teams them. When the free count in the ros/mayo game ends 24-10 with very little malice, its hard to say there weren't inconsistencies (again - see above - don't think it would have affected the outcome)

Sligo v Wicklow. Sligo by 2
Fermanagh v Cavan. Cavan by 3

Derry v Dublin. Dublin by 4
Mayo v Galway. Mayo by 1

Round 1 of group stages seems to be over 2 weekends - presumably to give provincial finalists a break. Is it Munster and connacht the first weekend or is that yet to be decided? (ie Munster winner vs seed 3, connacht winner vs seed 3//Munster runner up vs seed 4, connacht runner up vs seed 4)

Galway v Kerry -Kerry
Roscommon v Donegal - Roscommon
Tyrone v Armagh - Tyrone
Mayo v Monaghan - Mayo

Clare v Limerick - Clare
Dublin v Louth - Dublin
Kildare v Meath - Kildare
Cork v Derry - Derry

Cavan v Fermanagh - Cavan
Westmeath v Tipperary - Westmeath
Offaly v Down - Offaly
Longford v Antrim -Antrim

Wexford v Carlow - Wexford
London v Laois- Laois
Waterford v Wicklow - Wicklow
Leitrim v Sligo - Leitrim

Armagh v Galway - Galway
Kerry v Roscommon -  Kerry
Monaghan v Tyrone - Tyrone
Donegal v Mayo - Mayo

Meath v Dublin - Dublin
Derry v Clare - Derry
Louth v Cork - Cork
Limerick v Kildare - limerick

Antrim v Cavan - Cavan
Down v Longford - Down
Fermanagh v Westmeath - Fermanagh
Tipperary v Offaly - Offaly

Carlow v Sligo - Sligo
Waterford v London - London
Wexford v Wicklow  - Wicklow
Leitrim v Laois - Leitrim

Armagh v Donegal - Armagh
Galway v Monaghan - Galway
Tyrone v Kerry - kerry
Roscommon v Mayo - Mayo

Derry v Dublin - Derry
Clare v Cork - Cork
Louth v Kildare - Louth
Limerick v Meath - Meath

Fermanagh v Tipperary - Fermanagh
Cavan v Down - Cavan
Westmeath v Antrim - Westmeath
Longford v Offaly - longford

Laois v Waterford - Laois
London v Carlow - Carlow
Wicklow v Leitrim - leitrim
Sligo v Wexford - Sligo

Kerry
Mayo
Galway -
Roscommon

Dublin
Derry -
Louth
Cork

Fermanagh   
Down
Cavan
Longford

Laois
Wexford
Sligo
Leitrim