All Ireland Football Final 2017 Mayo V Dublin

[Hound]

All the talk is Flynn will get the final wing forward position ahead of Scully, Connolly, Lowndes.

Not sure about that one. I've lost a bit of faith in Flynn, but he must be going well. He doesn't have the legs to cope with the maurauding forward runs of the Mayo half backs, and I can foresee a lot of Flynn pointing at teammates to pick up runners as he tries to find someone who's staying at home to stand close to.

But if Mayo are able to put genuine pressure on the Dublin kickout and there's a lot of 50/50 ball in the middle of the field, then I don't think there's any doubt that Mayo have the better fielders, so putting Flynn in there would go some way to evening things out. He's arguably the best fielder we have. Flynn's also really good at getting early accurate ball into the full forward line and a good man to take a point (not all days, but most days).

Interesting point on the early ball into the FF because that would be a change to how you've played all year. Playing against blanket defences it's been all hand passes. Seems unlikely you'll revert to a more direct ball

Yep, although Mayo set up differently than the other teams, so they'll attack in numbers from half back, and therefore leave some gaps when attacks break down. Perceived weakness of Mayo would be if any of our FF line gets isolated against any of your full back line, we'll cause havoc. So Flynn would be able to get ball in quickly before cover arrives, something not really in Scully's locker.

At the opposite end, its going to be very interesting what you do with AOS. He has never really worked at FF v the Dubs, but that's been down to a mixture of him being too greedy and nobody showing for him to pass it to (one perpetuating the other perhaps!). But still his success rate at winning primary ball has always been good, so it only needs a little adjustment.
Andy Moran the big dangerman. Can see him causing Fitzsimons a lot of trouble, unless Mayo allow us to double up.

[Zulu]

Is it rue that affiliated Dublin youth players get their food delivered to them. Is it true that the senior team are driving sponsored vehicles. These are just rumours?

Do sponsored cars make you play better? I wonder was it the sponsored cars that made our hurlers play so poorly this year?

Mayo and Kerry lads have sponsored cars. Dublin had sponsored cars under Pillar, and probably before that too. Maybe its because we've changed to Subarus that's brought the improvement.

Hah! Tell me more....
AOS drives a car sponsored by AIB for whom he does promotional work, same as Berno does for Supervalu but I don't know of any player driving a car that is supplied by a commercial team sponsor. Maybe you know more than I do.

Mayo lad I work with said a car dealer gives a number of cars to Mayo lads. Burke Motors or something like that?

Yeah, several players are driving cars from different dealers and fair play to them.
It's not a centralised deal where the whole panel, management and backroom team are given cars though!

So?

Just a clarification. Mayo don't have sponsors with the resources that Dublin have.

Mayo are not short money. If they lose on Sunday it will have nothing to do with Subaru providing cars rather than individual car dealers.

Never suggested otherwise. The cars they're driving will have no bearing on it.

So why is it being discussed? The two best teams in Ireland are meeting Sunday in what should be a great game yet who provides each team with sponsored cars is the topic of discussion?

Both teams are getting huge funding and high level professional support and the winner will be decided by the footballers on the pitch.

[vallankumous]

Do sponsored cars make you play better? I wonder was it the sponsored cars that made our hurlers play so poorly this year?

Mayo and Kerry lads have sponsored cars. Dublin had sponsored cars under Pillar, and probably before that too. Maybe its because we've changed to Subarus that's brought the improvement.

They can.

Anything that relieves external pressure can make you a better player.
Any relief from work, child, travel, financial pressure can make you a better player.

[Tubberman]

Is it rue that affiliated Dublin youth players get their food delivered to them. Is it true that the senior team are driving sponsored vehicles. These are just rumours?

Do sponsored cars make you play better? I wonder was it the sponsored cars that made our hurlers play so poorly this year?

Mayo and Kerry lads have sponsored cars. Dublin had sponsored cars under Pillar, and probably before that too. Maybe its because we've changed to Subarus that's brought the improvement.

Hah! Tell me more....
AOS drives a car sponsored by AIB for whom he does promotional work, same as Berno does for Supervalu but I don't know of any player driving a car that is supplied by a commercial team sponsor. Maybe you know more than I do.

Mayo lad I work with said a car dealer gives a number of cars to Mayo lads. Burke Motors or something like that?

Yeah, several players are driving cars from different dealers and fair play to them.
It's not a centralised deal where the whole panel, management and backroom team are given cars though!

So?

Just a clarification. Mayo don't have sponsors with the resources that Dublin have.

Mayo are not short money. If they lose on Sunday it will have nothing to do with Subaru providing cars rather than individual car dealers.

Never suggested otherwise. The cars they're driving will have no bearing on it.

So why is it being discussed? The two best teams in Ireland are meeting Sunday in what should be a great game yet who provides each team with sponsored cars is the topic of discussion?

Both teams are getting huge funding and high level professional support and the winner will be decided by the footballers on the pitch.

I don't know! I only joined the topic (same as yourself) to clarify that some Mayo players are driving sponsored cars, I didn't start the discussion. 
Don't bring up the funding issue for Jaysis sake, aren't we getting on grand without throwing that grenade into the mix!

[Lar Naparka]

Is it rue that affiliated Dublin youth players get their food delivered to them. Is it true that the senior team are driving sponsored vehicles. These are just rumours?

Do sponsored cars make you play better? I wonder was it the sponsored cars that made our hurlers play so poorly this year?

Mayo and Kerry lads have sponsored cars. Dublin had sponsored cars under Pillar, and probably before that too. Maybe its because we've changed to Subarus that's brought the improvement.

Hah! Tell me more....
AOS drives a car sponsored by AIB for whom he does promotional work, same as Berno does for Supervalu but I don't know of any player driving a car that is supplied by a commercial team sponsor. Maybe you know more than I do.

Mayo lad I work with said a car dealer gives a number of cars to Mayo lads. Burke Motors or something like that?

Yeah, several players are driving cars from different dealers and fair play to them.
It's not a centralised deal where the whole panel, management and backroom team are given cars though!

Neither is the Dublin Subaru deal

That's not my understanding of the deal.
According to the Indo, announcing details of the sponsorship deal with Suburu, "Subaru will provide vehicles to the players and management of the Dublin senior football and hurling teams. Both teams will also benefit from a Subaru Forester Van to transport their kit around the country as they compete in the All-Ireland Championships and National Leagues."
I take that to mean that all hurling and football panels along with the management of both sides get sponsored cars.

[The Hill is Blue]

There is nothing really to talk about. The Bandwagon fans in Mayo are really excited. Probably because they don't know to much about the real job in hand. Most (unbelievably) are caught up with talk of homecomings. That's how far removed they are. The synopsis from the more knowledgeable fan is what Crete Boom says above. We will burst a gut. But Corporation Dublin will prevail and after the winter break prepare for 4 in a row. More of their successful under 21's will be assimilated into the first team after retaining the O'Byrne Cup with their third team.

It's a terrible place to be as a knowledgeable Mayo fan. A sort of (what feels like an) eternal Limbo! Good enough to be at the Top table. But still feeding from the scraps. You know this period of a decent football side is coming to an end and you know the heavily financed Dublin machine gets bigger and bigger!

Did you watch football during the 70s and 80s? How do you account for Kerry winning seven All Irelands in nine years between 1978 and 1986 other than that they were an exceptional group of players?

Of course they were exceptionally talented, there could have been no other reason for their phenomenal success in those years. I mean they hadn't have anything else that their closest rivals didn't have. In fact, they were at a distinct disadvantage in many ways when compared to the likes of Cork or Dublin.
If you go by sheer talent alone, Micko's men were the best of all time, whereas present day Dublin has the best team that money could buy.

I think by talent, or skill, or whatever label you put on it, this Dublin team have all others beat.

What they've proven that the money and the coaching and nurturing it brings is more important than any innate transcendent talent in this sport. We have a relatively small small size so absolutely exceptional athletes are rare. Only a few in my time come to mind, Gooch, Michael Murphy.

So it's a sport where you can 'make' great players. And by God if Dublin haven't made a machine capable of making them.

Good post Syf, you're in deadly form today!
I'd kinda quibble with your interpretation of the term 'talent' but otherwise you are bang on target. I think Talent is more a product of nature and not nurture.
All the training in the world wouldn't turn a donkey into a Grand National winner. I think Dublion has a good few talented players who, if they played for any other county, would still stand out.
However, talent on its own won't get you far. A bit like a lighthouse in a bog: brilliant but useless.
It took a lot more than mere talent alone to get Dublin to its pre-eminent position it enjoys today.
Just suppose that Dublin and Mayo swapped places sometime before last year's All Ireland final. THat would mean Berno and Dermo, Clucko and Deano having to forsake their top of the range Suburus and and a 10 t0 20 minute spin to their training grounds.
Instead, they would be rushing to finish work/study or whatever before 4 o'clock and three or four would have to pile into a car and rface a return trip of more than 250 miles, getting to bed around 3 in the morning and then having to face into their daytime occupations once again, like ten of the Mayo panel have to do three times a week. They would have to forego the world class gym in Abbotstown and the state of the art pitches in  UCD, DCU, Trinity pitches, knowing their opponents would be making full use of same.
The list could go on and on but the exercise would be pointless. When you tot up all the long list of advantages that Mayo would have over Dublin, there's no doubt that they'd be All Ireland winners right now.

This debate as always is degenerating into sheer begrudgery. What unfair advantages did Kerry have which helped them win 37 All Ireland trophies?

[Zulu]

Is it rue that affiliated Dublin youth players get their food delivered to them. Is it true that the senior team are driving sponsored vehicles. These are just rumours?

Do sponsored cars make you play better? I wonder was it the sponsored cars that made our hurlers play so poorly this year?

Mayo and Kerry lads have sponsored cars. Dublin had sponsored cars under Pillar, and probably before that too. Maybe its because we've changed to Subarus that's brought the improvement.

Hah! Tell me more....
AOS drives a car sponsored by AIB for whom he does promotional work, same as Berno does for Supervalu but I don't know of any player driving a car that is supplied by a commercial team sponsor. Maybe you know more than I do.

Mayo lad I work with said a car dealer gives a number of cars to Mayo lads. Burke Motors or something like that?

Yeah, several players are driving cars from different dealers and fair play to them.
It's not a centralised deal where the whole panel, management and backroom team are given cars though!

So?

Just a clarification. Mayo don't have sponsors with the resources that Dublin have.

Mayo are not short money. If they lose on Sunday it will have nothing to do with Subaru providing cars rather than individual car dealers.

Never suggested otherwise. The cars they're driving will have no bearing on it.

So why is it being discussed? The two best teams in Ireland are meeting Sunday in what should be a great game yet who provides each team with sponsored cars is the topic of discussion?

Both teams are getting huge funding and high level professional support and the winner will be decided by the footballers on the pitch.

I don't know! I only joined the topic (same as yourself) to clarify that some Mayo players are driving sponsored cars, I didn't start the discussion. 
Don't bring up the funding issue for Jaysis sake, aren't we getting on grand without throwing that grenade into the mix!

But funding is the discussion. It shouldn't be but it is. Pity we can't talk football a few days before the biggest game of the year with two of the best teams in the past 20 years going head to head.

[vallankumous]

That's not my understanding of the deal.
According to the Indo, announcing details of the sponsorship deal with Suburu, "Subaru will provide vehicles to the players and management of the Dublin senior football and hurling teams. Both teams will also benefit from a Subaru Forester Van to transport their kit around the country as they compete in the All-Ireland Championships and National Leagues."
I take that to mean that all hurling and football panels along with the management of both sides get sponsored cars.

Do you know if this includes private use?
Is it a car per person or shared with Ts&Cs applying?

[macdanger2]

This debate as always is degenerating into sheer begrudgery. What unfair advantages did Kerry have which helped them win 37 All Ireland trophies?

I don't want to get involved in this argument since this thread isn't the place for it but I just wanted to pick up on this argument which is a complete fallacy. In using this argument you're saying:

Team A (Kerry/KK) have been extremely successful.
Team A have no particular unfair advantages.
Team B (Dublin) have also been extremely successful.

Since both team A and team B have been extremely successful and team A have been shown to have no unfair advantages, therefore team B also have no unfair advantages.

[Syferus]

Is it rue that affiliated Dublin youth players get their food delivered to them. Is it true that the senior team are driving sponsored vehicles. These are just rumours?

Do sponsored cars make you play better? I wonder was it the sponsored cars that made our hurlers play so poorly this year?

Mayo and Kerry lads have sponsored cars. Dublin had sponsored cars under Pillar, and probably before that too. Maybe its because we've changed to Subarus that's brought the improvement.

Hah! Tell me more....
AOS drives a car sponsored by AIB for whom he does promotional work, same as Berno does for Supervalu but I don't know of any player driving a car that is supplied by a commercial team sponsor. Maybe you know more than I do.

Mayo lad I work with said a car dealer gives a number of cars to Mayo lads. Burke Motors or something like that?

Yeah, several players are driving cars from different dealers and fair play to them.
It's not a centralised deal where the whole panel, management and backroom team are given cars though!

So?

Just a clarification. Mayo don't have sponsors with the resources that Dublin have.

Mayo are not short money. If they lose on Sunday it will have nothing to do with Subaru providing cars rather than individual car dealers.

Never suggested otherwise. The cars they're driving will have no bearing on it.

So why is it being discussed? The two best teams in Ireland are meeting Sunday in what should be a great game yet who provides each team with sponsored cars is the topic of discussion?

Both teams are getting huge funding and high level professional support and the winner will be decided by the footballers on the pitch.

I don't know! I only joined the topic (same as yourself) to clarify that some Mayo players are driving sponsored cars, I didn't start the discussion. 
Don't bring up the funding issue for Jaysis sake, aren't we getting on grand without throwing that grenade into the mix!

But funding is the discussion. It shouldn't be but it is. Pity we can't talk football a few days before the biggest game of the year with two of the best teams in the past 20 years going head to head.

I think we all know you'd like to ignore the reasons why Dublin are so dominant. If you want that sort of one-eyed discussion head over to Res Dubs - otherwise suck it up like a big boy.

[PW Nally]

Ignoring the people who get paid for physio and other stuff around the senior team (no different than Mayo, Kerry, etc), none of the Dublin players would have received coaching from paid coaches. It would all have been parents over underage club teams and mostly volunteer past players on Dublin development squads.

Geography and population, where we have big numbers and all live within a reasonably close area are the genuine advantages we have (as well as being the best run county board in the country). Our club game at senior level is better than most too. The work that goes in by players at the 16 top senior clubs is unreal, all training 3 /4 times a week, a generation of fitness fanatics with builds that Olympic swimmers would be proud of.

But it'll be 15 v 15 on Sunday (or 21 v 21 by the end), we can't play any more than anyone else, and it'll be a combination of the most talented and hardest working that prevails, and there's never been much between these two teams. And whichever team prevails, the begrudgers can go feck themselves.

So no county board part financed GDOs at Cuala etc have been involved in coaching likes of Con O'Callaghan?

[vallankumous]

Ignoring the people who get paid for physio and other stuff around the senior team (no different than Mayo, Kerry, etc), none of the Dublin players would have received coaching from paid coaches. It would all have been parents over underage club teams and mostly volunteer past players on Dublin development squads.

Geography and population, where we have big numbers and all live within a reasonably close area are the genuine advantages we have (as well as being the best run county board in the country). Our club game at senior level is better than most too. The work that goes in by players at the 16 top senior clubs is unreal, all training 3 /4 times a week, a generation of fitness fanatics with builds that Olympic swimmers would be proud of.

But it'll be 15 v 15 on Sunday (or 21 v 21 by the end), we can't play any more than anyone else, and it'll be a combination of the most talented and hardest working that prevails, and there's never been much between these two teams. And whichever team prevails, the begrudgers can go feck themselves.

So no county board part financed GDOs at Cuala etc have been involved in coaching likes of Con O'Callaghan?

If not in their clubs then they did in the schools.

[heffo]

Is it rue that affiliated Dublin youth players get their food delivered to them. Is it true that the senior team are driving sponsored vehicles. These are just rumours?

Do sponsored cars make you play better? I wonder was it the sponsored cars that made our hurlers play so poorly this year?

Mayo and Kerry lads have sponsored cars. Dublin had sponsored cars under Pillar, and probably before that too. Maybe its because we've changed to Subarus that's brought the improvement.

Hah! Tell me more....
AOS drives a car sponsored by AIB for whom he does promotional work, same as Berno does for Supervalu but I don't know of any player driving a car that is supplied by a commercial team sponsor. Maybe you know more than I do.

Mayo lad I work with said a car dealer gives a number of cars to Mayo lads. Burke Motors or something like that?

Yeah, several players are driving cars from different dealers and fair play to them.
It's not a centralised deal where the whole panel, management and backroom team are given cars though!

Neither is the Dublin Subaru deal

That's not my understanding of the deal.
According to the Indo, announcing details of the sponsorship deal with Suburu, "Subaru will provide vehicles to the players and management of the Dublin senior football and hurling teams. Both teams will also benefit from a Subaru Forester Van to transport their kit around the country as they compete in the All-Ireland Championships and National Leagues."
I take that to mean that all hurling and football panels along with the management of both sides get sponsored cars.

That's ok - I get that you misunderstood.

[macdanger2]

When will Dublin name their team? Do they normally line out as named or have changes?

Presume ours will be named tomorrow evening with 1-2 changes before throw in

[TheGreatest]

Hound and Heffo, not even worth it conversing with ignorance.

I wonder what their excuse was when they lost two finals in the 90s and 00s and Donegal this decade.

They need to look internally and perhaps just not that good of a footballing county and have mental weaknesses.