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And what difference would either of those make. He is the manager, again he looked lost along the line yesterday and frequently clueless. Not sure what Mc Guinness does on match day but all of his other men don't seem to have much input or influence. I'd have Mc Guinness along the line and just let Laverty be a coach as he hasn't a clue how to be a manager.

I really feel for the players, they put so much into the league and B championship just to come up very short yesterday. The management have a responsibility to keep everyone grounded but yesterday I got the vibe that all they had to do was turn up. There was too much going on in the buildup, have breakfast with the team, join us for a celebration dinner afterwards! Catch a grip on yourselves and stop getting carried away, go play and win the game. They were let down by an inexperienced manager who looked so lost and clueless, he might be a decent coach but he was left looking like a wee boy along the line. His allegiance to Kilcoo cost him again yesterday when the curly finger should have been used. Like Canavan said pre game, the coaching of Jimmy Mc Guinness was evident in the way Down had played on the way to the final but it was boys v men yesterday.

Jimmy still winning matches 

Catch yourselves on the pair of you.

Not so sure there boyo

Surely there are better ways to spend your time rather than researching my posts. I'll get out of your head if you want, just ask.

Not at all. How my club plays is up to them, I'm highlighting our current manager's influence on Kilcoo and Down.

So you are all defending the way Laverty plays and tells his team what to do. Fair enough.

So After EVERY tackle our lads hold their heads ?? Do you think our management team allow time at training to go over this practice ??

What way do you coach your teams Lotto

There is a direct instruction to players to stay down and hold the head after a heavy tackle, to make the most of the situation and all coming from Laverty. I know this for a fact.

[Now every tackle on a Kilcoo player whether they are playing for Down or Kilcoo ends up with them holding their head]

I just cannot stand the methods that our current manager uses, and more importantly has used in the past to win at all levels he has coached. He himself was entirely responsible for developing a diving culture in his club 20 odd years ago, falling at the slightest touch to earn cheap frees. Now every tackle on a Kilcoo player whether they are playing for Down or Kilcoo ends up with them holding their head, now men tell me that is just not right. There is a manly way to play football but his tactics are just cheap both on the pitch and as we have seen this year, along the line. He may be well got by the players but they'll see his true colours when he's playing against them later in the Summer. What will be the real test will be with next year's U.20's, he's had plenty to work with over the last two years but next year will be a real challenge so lets see how he does with them.

Why are you singling out Down and Kilcoo? I guarantee you every club and county in Ireland have players that do this. Going down after high tackles when in all honesty it doesn't even hurt just because you know its an easy free and yellow card for your opponent. You need to wise up

Singling it out because Laverty brought that culture of diving into his club and now his county. Nanderson, I didn't say going down after high tackles, I said going down after every tackle holding their heads. It is absolutely pathetic to watch but apparently you think it is ok to do. Who needs to wise up?

I just cannot stand the methods that our current manager uses, and more importantly has used in the past to win at all levels he has coached. He himself was entirely responsible for developing a diving culture in his club 20 odd years ago, falling at the slightest touch to earn cheap frees. Now every tackle on a Kilcoo player whether they are playing for Down or Kilcoo ends up with them holding their head, now men tell me that is just not right. There is a manly way to play football but his tactics are just cheap both on the pitch and as we have seen this year, along the line. He may be well got by the players but they'll see his true colours when he's playing against them later in the Summer. What will be the real test will be with next year's U.20's, he's had plenty to work with over the last two years but next year will be a real challenge so lets see how he does with them.

We have to be one of the most clueless defensive teams currently even though we apparently have a genius of a manager, so conceding

1-11 to Tipperary
2-17 to Antrim
2-14 to Fermanagh
0-11 to Westmeath
2-14  to Cavan
1-14 to Longford
0-9 to Offaly

Some powerhouses there, yeah real progress alright.

redandblackareback, I can't believe you don't realise that we are now a pro Laverty zone here now, absolutely no criticism is tolerated. We are moving forward, we are a work in progress blah blah blah. It takes very little to please some people but I too have seen very little progress.

Compare the tactics between Laverty and Tally, messy boy if you can please.

[Give more u15 and 16s a chance to train in a high performance environment with access to gyms etc]

I would like to see us cast the net wider for development squads. Give more u15 and 16s a chance to train in a high performance environment with access to gyms etc. Instead of carting 40 boys to Downpatrick on a Saturday morning we should have subsidiary's in the North, South, East and West of the county. We will have a better chance of unearthing county players.

For lads to be given the chance to train at a high level within Down, we obviously need high performance coaches to deliver at this standard. This just isn't happening in our County and never has. Where are these gyms for lads to have access to, great reports with what Aaron Brannigan was doing but he is only one man. BTW, it's not a case of unearthing talent but developing and nuturing our next generation.