Report on British citizenship - School-leavers to take oath of allegiance?

[Mentalman]

Pupils 'to take allegiance oath' 

All school leavers could be asked to swear an oath to the Queen

School-leavers should be encouraged to swear an oath of allegiance to Queen and country, says a report commissioned by Gordon Brown on British citizenship.
Report author, ex-attorney general Lord Goldsmith, says it would give teenagers a sense of belonging.

Council tax and student fee rebates are suggested for people who volunteer - as well as a "Britishness" public holiday.

The government said it would "study" the report's "interesting" findings but is not bound by its recommendations.

However, John Dunford from the Association of School and College leaders said the citizenship ceremony was "a half-baked idea".

Graduation ceremonies

A Scottish Government spokesman said it did not support the plan and did not believe it would find favour with parents or school pupils.

And Labour peer Baroness Kennedy said: "I think this is a serious mistake - I think it's puerile and I think it's rather silly."

Lord Goldsmith, who quit government in June, believes that citizenship ceremonies for teenagers would help improve their sense of what it means to be a British citizen.

  The symbols of a healthy democracy are not to be found in empty gestures and I'm afraid I see this as an empty gesture

Baroness Helena Kennedy
Human rights lawyer

"Certainly there isn't a crisis of national identity, but the research does tend to show there's been a diminution in national pride, in this sense of belonging," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

"The citizenship ceremonies, which are just one of the many things I have suggested, are a way of marking that passage of being a student of citizenship to a citizen in practice.

"It does make sense to promote a sense of shared belonging, a sense that you are part of a community with a common venture, to integrate better newcomers to our society and be clearer about what the rights and responsibilities are."

Lord Goldsmith said that while he favours an oath of allegiance to the Queen, the statement could be a pledge of commitment to the country or a statement of what the rights and responsibilities of citizens are.

Republican involvement?

He also stressed that he could not see why Republicans would not want to swear an oath, even though they may not believe in the present system of government.


HAVE YOUR SAY
What about swearing allegiance to the country instead of the Queen?
JP, London
Send us your commentsHowever, Graham Smith of the group Republic, which campaigns for the abolition of the monarchy, told the BBC: "It's offensive to people who do actually cherish democracy and who actually cherish the sorts of liberties we've fought for centuries."

If children refuse to take part, he added, "are they then going to be told or taught that they are somehow less British or less loyal or less patriotic?"

Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg said there were "far better ways" of creating a sense of belonging for teenagers than asking people to swear allegiance to Queen and country.

"People should not feel that being British is about swearing allegiance - it should be about taking an active role in society," he said.

Citizenship ceremonies already exist for immigrants and the report suggests holding them in schools, where youngsters who are about to leave the school and move on to work or further education could participate.

Treason laws

Lord Goldsmith says a new British national day should be established by 2012 to coincide with the Olympics and what will be the Queen's Diamond Jubilee.

It could operate in the same way as Australia Day, which is a public holiday on 26 January and is used to celebrate what it means to be an Australian.

And young people who volunteer could receive a reduction in tuition fees, while others who work in the community could be given a small council tax rebate.

The peer has consulted people in the UK, Europe, North America and elsewhere to pull together a series of proposals aimed at providing a "much clearer vision of what it means to be a citizen".

Lady Kennedy, a human rights lawyer, said the proposal was based on a misconception of what it meant to be proud of a country.

She said: "The symbols of a healthy democracy are not to be found in empty gestures and I'm afraid I see this as an empty gesture."

Lord Goldsmith has called for Britain's old treason laws to be scrapped or reformed. At the moment they include sleeping with the wife of the heir to the throne, which is punishable by life in prison.

The peer has also hinted at updating the national anthem by removing verses which are rarely performed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7287984.stm

[Minder]

Proper order too

[ziggysego]

I see trouble ahead at Stormont...

[Zapatista]

it's every bit as silly as having a National anthem or feeling patriotic towards a Flag. Mad stuff really

[Mentalman]

Not a hope of it being implemented, as Ziggy says there are obvious implications up North, but also in Edinburgh, Cardiff, and for the 10% of their population not ethnically British.

On another general point I would say I would swear an oath of allegiance to the Republic, but to a President or a Government? I don't think so. Oath of Allegiances to personages don't sound like a good idea.

[Evil Genius]

Not a hope of it being implemented, as Ziggy says there are obvious implications up North, but also in Edinburgh, Cardiff, and for the 10% of their population not ethnically British.

Imo, a very significant percentage of "Middle England" are also likely to dismiss, even oppose this, including many of those who do consider themselves British and support the Monarchy! This is because the whole idea, like flag-waving, armed police and ID Cards etc is the very antithesis of what they see as being important about being British i.e. the right to say "No", even if you are personally inclined to say "Yes".

Conversely, four years experience of the citizenship ceremonies has demonstrated that some of the most enthusiastic adherent of such things actuaaly come from the 10% of the population not ethnically British - whether 1st generation or immigrants. It seems many like to have something tangible to demonstrate that they have "arrived" i.e. are as British as their next door neighbour.

Anyhow, this whole pushing of "Britishness" by Gordon Brown is a direct response by him to the fact that he is totally dependant for his majority on Scottish votes, with all the difficulties this poses (West Lothian question, no separate English Assembly, rise of the SNP, English subsidy to Scotland etc). Therefore, he is hoping to fudge/erase the Scottish/English distinction by demonstrating that everyone is actually "British", so it doesn't matter.

From what I've seen, it's not really working and as for this particular idea (pledge), I daresay it will be quietly dropped.

[Mentalman]

Imo, a very significant percentage of "Middle England" are also likely to dismiss, even oppose this, including many of those who do consider themselves British and support the Monarchy! This is because the whole idea, like flag-waving, armed police and ID Cards etc is the very antithesis of what they see as being important about being British i.e. the right to say "No", even if you are personally inclined to say "Yes".

True, was thinking that myself afterwards - theres a lot of what would be termed the Anglo-Saxon attitude still evident I suppose i.e. we're not for being told what to do.

[Zapatista]

If you wanted a job in the owc civil service in the 70s ye had to take an oath to herself.

[SammyG]

Ridiculous kite-flying that will never even be debated, at Westminster, never mind implemented.

[ziggysego]

So erm... you're a Republican Sammy? 

[SammyG]

So erm... you're a Republican Sammy? 

Certainly am.

[Chrisowc]

So erm... you're a Republican Sammy? 

Certainly am.

What would you call the United Kingdom if it became a Republic?

I think 'The People's Republic of the former United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland' has a certain ring to it.

[SammyG]

So erm... you're a Republican Sammy? 

Certainly am.

What would you call the United Kingdom if it became a Republic?

I think 'The People's Republic of the former United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland' has a certain ring to it.

Why not just the Republic of GB and NI?

[Chrisowc]

So erm... you're a Republican Sammy? 

Certainly am.

What would you call the United Kingdom if it became a Republic?

I think 'The People's Republic of the former United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland' has a certain ring to it.

Why not just the Republic of GB and NI?

I wasn't being serious.

[ziggysego]

So erm... you're a Republican Sammy? 

Certainly am.

What would you call the United Kingdom if it became a Republic?

I think 'The People's Republic of the former United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland' has a certain ring to it.

Why not just the Republic of GB and NI?

I wasn't being serious.

I don't think Sammy was either.....