National league final day. Tyrone v Cavan

[Jinxy]

Kerry have way too much tall, slow-moving timber to see out the last 10-15 minutes of a game against Dublin.
This was particularly evident around the middle of the field.

What else can they do I suppose? That tall timber is still the core of their team. I'm sure if they had better young blood they would be in there. Not like Kerry to miss a trick. If they had alternatives they would be using them. O Mahoney and Marc still there for a reason. I dunno what to make of that Murphy lad though and his role this year. Looks lost at times and then comes up with some good stuff. I honestly think Kerry have milked the last out of the older lads and overachieved (with some help) in recent years.

Yeah, it seems like robbing Peter to pay Paul to me.
I couldn't understand why Donaghy and Cooper took it in turns to basically be a one man FF line in the 2nd half.
This craic of hoofing the ball into Donaghy with 3 defenders around him and no support is junior B level stuff.
I think it would be worth trying David Moran at centre forward and giving him license to drift in to the square.
Kerry need to be much more tactically astute with their replacement strategy as well.
Fitzmaurice should be keeping some of his best attacking players in reserve for a big push in the last 20 minutes.
Sheehan, Donaghy & Cooper don't have the legs for 70 minutes against Dublin but you'd want them on the field with a full tank of petrol at the business end of the game.

[muppet]

Kerry have way too much tall, slow-moving timber to see out the last 10-15 minutes of a game against Dublin.
This was particularly evident around the middle of the field.

What else can they do I suppose? That tall timber is still the core of their team. I'm sure if they had better young blood they would be in there. Not like Kerry to miss a trick. If they had alternatives they would be using them. O Mahoney and Marc still there for a reason. I dunno what to make of that Murphy lad though and his role this year. Looks lost at times and then comes up with some good stuff. I honestly think Kerry have milked the last out of the older lads and overachieved (with some help) in recent years.

Yeah, it seems like robbing Peter to pay Paul to me.
I couldn't understand why Donaghy and Cooper took it in turns to basically be a one man FF line in the 2nd half.
This craic of hoofing the ball into Donaghy with 3 defenders around him and no support is junior B level stuff.
I think it would be worth trying David Moran at centre forward and giving him license to drift in to the square.
Kerry need to be much more tactically astute with their replacement strategy as well.
Fitzmaurice should be keeping some of his best attacking players in reserve for a big push in the last 20 minutes.
Sheehan, Donaghy & Cooper don't have the legs for 70 minutes against Dublin but you'd want them on the field with a full tank of petrol at the business end of the game.

Kerry are not the only team to do that. Look at O'Shea's goal v Donegal on the link below. O'Shea had Magee & McHugh on him. But the next 4 players arriving were all Donegal players. Not a single Mayo player was getting up to help him. I can't understand serious teams playing like that.

http://gfycat.com/ifr/HeavyPastArcticwolf

[AZOffaly]

Kerry have way too much tall, slow-moving timber to see out the last 10-15 minutes of a game against Dublin.
This was particularly evident around the middle of the field.

What else can they do I suppose? That tall timber is still the core of their team. I'm sure if they had better young blood they would be in there. Not like Kerry to miss a trick. If they had alternatives they would be using them. O Mahoney and Marc still there for a reason. I dunno what to make of that Murphy lad though and his role this year. Looks lost at times and then comes up with some good stuff. I honestly think Kerry have milked the last out of the older lads and overachieved (with some help) in recent years.

Yeah, it seems like robbing Peter to pay Paul to me.
I couldn't understand why Donaghy and Cooper took it in turns to basically be a one man FF line in the 2nd half.
This craic of hoofing the ball into Donaghy with 3 defenders around him and no support is junior B level stuff.
I think it would be worth trying David Moran at centre forward and giving him license to drift in to the square.
Kerry need to be much more tactically astute with their replacement strategy as well.
Fitzmaurice should be keeping some of his best attacking players in reserve for a big push in the last 20 minutes.
Sheehan, Donaghy & Cooper don't have the legs for 70 minutes against Dublin but you'd want them on the field with a full tank of petrol at the business end of the game.

Kerry are not the only team to do that. Look at O'Shea's goal v Donegal on the link below. O'Shea had Magee & McHugh on him. But the next 4 players arriving were all Donegal players. Not a single Mayo player was getting up to help him. I can't understand serious teams playing like that.

http://gfycat.com/ifr/HeavyPastArcticwolf

But he scored a goal



Seriously though, the long ball is a great 'mixer', but if it's your only tactic you are in trouble. And when you do use it, you have to get men around the target man, and you also have to put it in from 40-45 yards out, ideally diagonally. Trying to hump it 60 yards in the air is pointless because most of the time the big man is coming out to the 20m line to collect it. A diagonal 45 metre, into a big man on the edge of the square, with corner forwards or wing forwards breaking at him is a very dangerous ball, used sparingly.

[Il Bomber Destro]

Kerry have way too much tall, slow-moving timber to see out the last 10-15 minutes of a game against Dublin.
This was particularly evident around the middle of the field.

What else can they do I suppose? That tall timber is still the core of their team. I'm sure if they had better young blood they would be in there. Not like Kerry to miss a trick. If they had alternatives they would be using them. O Mahoney and Marc still there for a reason. I dunno what to make of that Murphy lad though and his role this year. Looks lost at times and then comes up with some good stuff. I honestly think Kerry have milked the last out of the older lads and overachieved (with some help) in recent years.

Yeah, it seems like robbing Peter to pay Paul to me.
I couldn't understand why Donaghy and Cooper took it in turns to basically be a one man FF line in the 2nd half.
This craic of hoofing the ball into Donaghy with 3 defenders around him and no support is junior B level stuff.
I think it would be worth trying David Moran at centre forward and giving him license to drift in to the square.
Kerry need to be much more tactically astute with their replacement strategy as well.
Fitzmaurice should be keeping some of his best attacking players in reserve for a big push in the last 20 minutes.
Sheehan, Donaghy & Cooper don't have the legs for 70 minutes against Dublin but you'd want them on the field with a full tank of petrol at the business end of the game.

Murphy doesn't have the physicality to play as a marker against the Dublin forwards and they do need some pace around the middle of the field so I can understand that one.

Their defence is a big issue for them, both Marc O'Se and O'Mahony are well past their best and are still key cogs there for Kerry. Crowley is a very good player but is a liability to see the line with the antics he gets up to. Apart from that, their defence is very average.

[Jinxy]

I'd argue that an average-sized player who is good in the air is actually a much more effective target man.
Look at the amount of ball Brogan wins overhead.
A big, tall lad standing around the square is a magnet for defenders.
Brogan always seems to be one on one when a high ball comes in to him and he wins it more often than not.
Even if he just breaks it, he's agile enough to go after it himself without needing support.
The thing about a player like Donaghy is that unless he catches it, or breaks it right on top of himself, he'll be swarmed and the chance to shoot or lay it off is gone.
If Kerry had Geaney fit, he'd be much more effective in this role.
BUT, you still need to have at least two men in your FF line for the tactic to work.
Otherwise, it's blatantly obvious to everyone where the ball is going.

[muppet]

Kerry have way too much tall, slow-moving timber to see out the last 10-15 minutes of a game against Dublin.
This was particularly evident around the middle of the field.

What else can they do I suppose? That tall timber is still the core of their team. I'm sure if they had better young blood they would be in there. Not like Kerry to miss a trick. If they had alternatives they would be using them. O Mahoney and Marc still there for a reason. I dunno what to make of that Murphy lad though and his role this year. Looks lost at times and then comes up with some good stuff. I honestly think Kerry have milked the last out of the older lads and overachieved (with some help) in recent years.

Yeah, it seems like robbing Peter to pay Paul to me.
I couldn't understand why Donaghy and Cooper took it in turns to basically be a one man FF line in the 2nd half.
This craic of hoofing the ball into Donaghy with 3 defenders around him and no support is junior B level stuff.
I think it would be worth trying David Moran at centre forward and giving him license to drift in to the square.
Kerry need to be much more tactically astute with their replacement strategy as well.
Fitzmaurice should be keeping some of his best attacking players in reserve for a big push in the last 20 minutes.
Sheehan, Donaghy & Cooper don't have the legs for 70 minutes against Dublin but you'd want them on the field with a full tank of petrol at the business end of the game.

Kerry are not the only team to do that. Look at O'Shea's goal v Donegal on the link below. O'Shea had Magee & McHugh on him. But the next 4 players arriving were all Donegal players. Not a single Mayo player was getting up to help him. I can't understand serious teams playing like that.

http://gfycat.com/ifr/HeavyPastArcticwolf

But he scored a goal



Seriously though, the long ball is a great 'mixer', but if it's your only tactic you are in trouble. And when you do use it, you have to get men around the target man, and you also have to put it in from 40-45 yards out, ideally diagonally. Trying to hump it 60 yards in the air is pointless because most of the time the big man is coming out to the 20m line to collect it. A diagonal 45 metre, into a big man on the edge of the square, with corner forwards or wing forwards breaking at him is a very dangerous ball, used sparingly.

He did but the Dubs just had another extra man back and the tactic failed miserably.

[Jinxy]

Having pace in the HF line is another factor.
It's not enough to have a big engine and run all day, you need to get up and down the pitch at speed.
Now, the way around this is to have your wing forwards dropping back with the play and effectively swapping positions with the wing backs if a counter attack is on.
It makes sense given that the wing backs are facing the opposition goals and can break out much more quickly plus they tend to be faster than the wing forwards nowadays.
But, your wing backs need to be proper ball players.
Look at the havoc Johnny Cooper & Philly McMahon cause when they move up the field, and they're technically in the FB line!
Without Tomás O'Sé, Kerry do not have a genuine attacking threat anywhere in their back line.
By that I mean a player who can move into the opposition half at speed, kick an accurate pass if somebody comes out to cover him, or kick his own score if nobody comes out to cover him.
To be honest, I think if you swapped the forwards with the backs on that Dublin team, they'd still beat most teams in the country.

[bigpackiechestout]

Lads where is Tommy Walsh? Is he a shadow of his former self or is he injured or what is the story there? Thought kerry looked extremely limited in the forwards yesterday at times and if Walsh is anything like the player he was in 2008 then that would be an unbelievable option to have

[Jinxy]

Whatever happened to his younger brother as well?

[Main Street]

Lads where is Tommy Walsh? Is he a shadow of his former self or is he injured or what is the story there? Thought kerry looked extremely limited in the forwards yesterday at times and if Walsh is anything like the player he was in 2008 then that would be an unbelievable option to have

Tommy hasn't been the same since tearing his hamstring completely off the bone in June 2013. I don't think he did enough in the earlier league games to merit a place on the team.
Maybe he's on another fitness schedule, but atm  he's still in "the shadow of his former self" category.

[beer baron]

Whatever happened to his younger brother as well?

Barry John's his name isn't it? I had someone try tell me yesterday Tommy Walsh never had a brother play for Kerry and that i must've been thinking of Barry John Keane. I'm not going mad woohoo   

[Onthe40]

Having pace in the HF line is another factor.
It's not enough to have a big engine and run all day, you need to get up and down the pitch at speed.
Now, the way around this is to have your wing forwards dropping back with the play and effectively swapping positions with the wing backs if a counter attack is on.
It makes sense given that the wing backs are facing the opposition goals and can break out much more quickly plus they tend to be faster than the wing forwards nowadays.
But, your wing backs need to be proper ball players.
Look at the havoc Johnny Cooper & Philly McMahon cause when they move up the field, and they're technically in the FB line!
Without Tomás O'Sé, Kerry do not have a genuine attacking threat anywhere in their back line.
By that I mean a player who can move into the opposition half at speed, kick an accurate pass if somebody comes out to cover him, or kick his own score if nobody comes out to cover him.
To be honest, I think if you swapped the forwards with the backs on that Dublin team, they'd still beat most teams in the country.

And to think they are missing arguably their 2 best defenders in McCaffrey & O Carroll...scary!!

[Fuzzman]

Phillip Jordan's Irish news article about the 2 games on Sunday.

I too was surprised how open the game was on Sunday and noticed several times we were more worried about getting a sweeper back to mark space rather than pressurising the man on the ball.
Loads of times I noticed Justy and CC running back towards their goal not even watching the play and I thought how the game has changed over the past 5-10 years.

IF YOU were looking to see lots of scores from play in last Sunday's National League finals, you would have put your money on Dublin and Kerry being the providers.

I certainly didn't expect to see Cavan and Tyrone score 1-27 from play. The first-half especially was great viewing and, hopefully, was a sign of things to come during the summer. Victory for Tyrone was important leading into the Championship opener against Derry.

Some of momentum built up during the league had been lost in the final two games against Armagh and Fermanagh, so it was vital to finish the campaign on a positive. As a Tyrone man, a major positive is the continued integration of young players into the team.

Eight of the 21 players used against Cavan have less than two years of experience at senior inter-county level, with six of those part of the U21 All-Ireland winning team last year. One of those, Rory Brennan, has surely nailed down a Championship place. He is playing with far more confidence in his second season and, along with Tiernan McCann, provides real pace to the Tyrone half-back line.

The harder summer surfaces will suit them along with the likes of Peter Harte and Mattie Donnelly, who are key players in Tyrone's running game. Defensively, Mickey Harte won't have been happy with his team in the opening half. They played very deep, allowing Cavan to carry possession and work scoring opportunities closer to goal. The Cavan full-forward line were unable to get into the game, but the better teams will exploit the space further out the field, like Kerry did in last year's All-Ireland semi-final.

The main question mark over Tyrone is whether they can get enough scores to beat the best teams. Connor McAliskey and Ronan O'Neill contributed 1-7 from play between them, yet both were withdrawn before the end. It shows how much the Tyrone system demands of the inside-forwards away from their attacking play, with everyone taking their turn covering back in defence.

The system probably suits Tyrone in that there is little separating the options Mickey Harte has in the full-forward line. McAliskey, O'Neill, Lee Brennan and Darren McCurry are all potential starters. Mickey will hope to get at least one of them on form on any given day to provide the scoring burst needed.

The experience of playing in Croke Park will have been a great experience for this Cavan team. They pushed the team that are fourth favourites for the All-Ireland all the way. After Ronan O'Neill's goal, I expected Tyrone to pull away, but Cavan refused to fold.

Cavan's defensive set-up has been their strength for the last few years and they have definitely improved in their transition to attack. They break out with much more pace, giving them more opportunities to score.

Tyrone are one of the most organised teams, defensively, in the country. Cavan still managed to score 12 points from play and they won't come up against many teams who are as disciplined in the tackle as Tyrone. They got little return from their three big names in attack - Givney, McKiernan (with the exception of his two points) and Johnston were nullified by the Tyrone defence.

Last Sunday didn't provide any major clues as to whether Tyrone can beat the best teams in the country. The size of the challenge they face to be All-Ireland contenders was clear to see watching the Division One final between Dublin and Kerry.

Everything about the game was a step up from the curtain-raiser. There was better ball retention, greater intensity in the tackle and the overall pace of the game was on another level. The Dublin and Kerry game felt like it meant more than most league finals.

There was an edge to the game that you don't normally get at this stage of the year. I get the feeling both teams think the other is the one big obstacle standing in their way of lifting Sam Maguire in September. If they meet later in the year, the rivalry that has been built up between the teams will test the discipline of both.

Dublin's winning margin of 11 points doesn't tell the story of the gap between the two teams. Kerry were right in the game until Paul Flynn's goal. What it did highlight was the major advantage Dublin have over the rest of the teams in the country - strength in depth.

Teams like Kerry, Mayo and Tyrone can conceivably stay with the Dubs for 50 to 60 minutes, but they don't have attacking options of the calibre of Kevin McManamon and Cormac Costello to spring from the bench. Dublin consistently overpower teams in the last 15 minutes due to the sheer quality of their bench.

Aidan O'Mahony's sending-off ended any chances of Kerry winning, as beating them with a man down is virtually impossible. In order to successfully defend an All-Ireland title, you need your best players to retain their form.

However, more importantly, you need some players to take a step forward. Ciaran Kilkenny has been a stand-out performer during the league for Dublin and he was again superb against Kerry. One concern is the form of Diarmuid Connolly, who hasn't got back to the form of 2014, when he was arguably the best player in the country.

The Kerry forward line, which has looked unstoppable over the last few games, struggled for scores. We don't often see a Kerry team being naïve in attack, but their insistence on playing high, hopeful ball to Kieran Donaghy was hard to believe.

I expect these two to meet again during the Championship and Kerry will be much closer when the day arrives. Eamonn Fitzmaurice knows the size of the task in front of him to topple Dublin. He won't want to give away any plans he has in a league final.

Kerry are known for their cuteness and reading too much into this result would be foolish.