Fair play Cavan. Some great scores in today's game. Look to be a team that would suit Croke Park. Should be a mighty final. I'm sure seanie Johnston never envisaged getting to play at headquarters again so what a huge achievement for him personally as well. Shows when a county pulls together what can be achieved. Tyrones performances have been poor the last 2 weeks. Fantastic to carry the flag for the north on the anniversary of the rising.
That National League final in Clones in 2002 where 25159 attended. Things were about to kick off for Tyrone over the next few years. Cavan were all over Tyrone in the first half if my memory serves me right.
I was never too bothered about the Div 2 final but after the last two performances it would be nice to get a big performance in this one heading into the championship.
Quote from: never kickt a ball on April 03, 2016, 10:14:47 PM
That National League final in Clones in 2002 where 25159 attended. Things were about to kick off for Tyrone over the next few years. Cavan were all over Tyrone in the first half if my memory serves me right.
Nope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6utbkUdTXU
Quote from: ONeill on April 03, 2016, 11:34:39 PM
Quote from: never kickt a ball on April 03, 2016, 10:14:47 PM
That National League final in Clones in 2002 where 25159 attended. Things were about to kick off for Tyrone over the next few years. Cavan were all over Tyrone in the first half if my memory serves me right.
Nope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6utbkUdTXU
Couldn't be further from the truth then......................... :o
Quote from: never kickt a ball on April 03, 2016, 11:42:49 PM
Quote from: ONeill on April 03, 2016, 11:34:39 PM
Quote from: never kickt a ball on April 03, 2016, 10:14:47 PM
That National League final in Clones in 2002 where 25159 attended. Things were about to kick off for Tyrone over the next few years. Cavan were all over Tyrone in the first half if my memory serves me right.
Nope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6utbkUdTXU
Couldn't be further from the truth then......................... :o
The mind plays tricks. I couldn't recall who Tyrone hammered in the 03 final. Turns out it was some place called Laois.
This will be no Tyrone walkover. Cavan have a mighty big, physical team of very good footballers. Should be a close one.
Yeah at the start of the year most people had Derry or Galway as the 2nd team in the final along with Tyrone but few outside Cavan considered them. It was a very tough game against them in the first day of the league in a very wet Omagh so as we saw on RTE last night they are delighted to have made such progress and join the big boys in Div 1
I'd say it's a long long time since Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan were all in Div 1 at the same time.
Obviously their success at U21 level is paying dividends now and who would have thought they'd be the top scorers of the league. What's this Joe Brolly called them a few years back?
I've been saying for years it was only a matter of time before Cavan would make it on the Senior scenes. With the work Peter Donnelly has gone at underage level during his tenure, this could be the start of Cavan.
Tyrone 3+ pts.
Anyone want to name the players and explain what exactly they are doing?
https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/12961221_628234823997364_8465741808677289781_o.jpg (https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/12961221_628234823997364_8465741808677289781_o.jpg)
The picture was too large to post directly. Can you resize pics in here?
Ciaran Brady and Killian Clarke celebrating after the final whistle yesterday.
Big celebration on that night in CP to mark the centenary (actual date) of the 1916 rising. Should be a very big crowd there especially if (it is a big if ) it is a Dublin / Kerry final . Roscommon and Donegal may throw spanner in works.
This is bonus territory for Cavan now, they can give Tyrone a rattle and see what happens on the night but in reality, Tyrone are a top 4 team despite being in Division 2 this year. Cavan are in or around the top 8. Galway pushed us all the way yesterday even though we were completely dominating them. The win covers up the huge amounts of wides we kicked and mistakes we made to invite Galway on to us. Hopefully we can put in a performance, never mind the result.
Despite this being our 4th appearance in Croker since 2013 I think it will be a first time experience for Galligan, Faulkner, Ciaran Brady, Conor Moynagh and Liam Buchanan.
Fair play to yis welcoming Seanie Johnston back and him playing so well for you.
What age is he now?
Yeah big 1916 celebrations planned for Croker that day.
I don't get the obsession with Johnston, hes not the only player we have ffs. "Huge achievement for him personally", is it a bigger achievement for him than anybody else on the team? It was a team effort
Quote from: ONeill on April 03, 2016, 11:34:39 PM
Quote from: never kickt a ball on April 03, 2016, 10:14:47 PM
That National League final in Clones in 2002 where 25159 attended. Things were about to kick off for Tyrone over the next few years. Cavan were all over Tyrone in the first half if my memory serves me right.
Nope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6utbkUdTXU
Jesus, Canavan was mighty that day
Funny how some players lose the ability to shoot properly.
Hub used to be often played at FF at underage and scored a good few points and goals but for years at MF he's shooting went way of radar.
The same can be said of Colm Cavanagh in the last few years too.
Used to get some good scores but usually now when he shoots you expect him to miss.
Any reasons for this?
Was this the right team for that 2002 final?
P Ward, C Gormley, C Lawn, B Robinson, R McMenamin, C Gourley, P.Jordan, C McAnallen, C Holmes, B Dooher, S O'Neill, G Cavlan, B McGuigan, K Hughes, P Canavan.
Where was P.Ward from again? Did Devine and Pascal come in the next year?
Peter Ward from Dromore
Jaysus Ward thats right, its hilarious now when you think about.
Dromore's Oz
Is he still doin nets for them these days?
When was the last time Cavan beat Tyrone at senior level in league or championship?
Does Robinson still play for his club?
Cavlan was a joy to watch sometimes when in full flow.
Was weird seeing McGuigan at corner forward. Even back then there was a lot of swarming around a man and defensive systems in place.
Quote from: Gonzalo15 on April 04, 2016, 03:16:34 PM
Quote from: ONeill on April 03, 2016, 11:34:39 PM
Quote from: never kickt a ball on April 03, 2016, 10:14:47 PM
That National League final in Clones in 2002 where 25159 attended. Things were about to kick off for Tyrone over the next few years. Cavan were all over Tyrone in the first half if my memory serves me right.
Nope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6utbkUdTXU
Jesus, Canavan was mighty that day
The thing that sticks in my mind about that day was Mcguigans stepover followed by Canavans backheel flick to an on running ricey.
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on April 05, 2016, 12:41:57 PM
Quote from: Gonzalo15 on April 04, 2016, 03:16:34 PM
Quote from: ONeill on April 03, 2016, 11:34:39 PM
Quote from: never kickt a ball on April 03, 2016, 10:14:47 PM
That National League final in Clones in 2002 where 25159 attended. Things were about to kick off for Tyrone over the next few years. Cavan were all over Tyrone in the first half if my memory serves me right.
Nope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6utbkUdTXU
Jesus, Canavan was mighty that day
The thing that sticks in my mind about that day was Mcguigans stepover followed by Canavans backheel flick to an on running ricey.
I was thinking about that the other day too and was going to trawl through that Youtube footage to find that incident. I wasn't sure if it was this game or the final v Laois the following year.
Quote from: BennyHarp on April 05, 2016, 01:14:19 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on April 05, 2016, 12:41:57 PM
Quote from: Gonzalo15 on April 04, 2016, 03:16:34 PM
Quote from: ONeill on April 03, 2016, 11:34:39 PM
Quote from: never kickt a ball on April 03, 2016, 10:14:47 PM
That National League final in Clones in 2002 where 25159 attended. Things were about to kick off for Tyrone over the next few years. Cavan were all over Tyrone in the first half if my memory serves me right.
Nope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6utbkUdTXU
Jesus, Canavan was mighty that day
The thing that sticks in my mind about that day was Mcguigans stepover followed by Canavans backheel flick to an on running ricey.
I was thinking about that the other day too and was going to trawl through that Youtube footage to find that incident. I wasn't sure if it was this game or the final v Laois the following year.
skip to 1hr 22 mins in that video
Quote from: Fuzzman on April 05, 2016, 11:52:52 AM
When was the last time Cavan beat Tyrone at senior level in league or championship?
I recall Cavan beat us in the league at O'Neill Park in 1997. That Cavan win sent us into some kind of playoff with Meath which was played in Clones.
I cant remember any Cavan wins against us since in league or championship, however maybe someone will correct me. It definitely hasn't happened in championship since then anyway, though Cavan did get a draw against us in the 2005 ulster semi.
Quote from: Fuzzman on April 04, 2016, 05:51:08 PM
Was this the right team for that 2002 final?
P Ward, C Gormley, C Lawn, B Robinson, R McMenamin, C Gourley, P.Jordan, C McAnallen, C Holmes, B Dooher, S O'Neill, G Cavlan, B McGuigan, K Hughes, P Canavan.
Where was P.Ward from again? Did Devine and Pascal come in the next year?
Devine played some matches in 02, I think he started against Derry in Casement but got injured and then Ward came on for him.
Quote from: Gonzalo15 on April 05, 2016, 02:06:22 PM
Quote from: BennyHarp on April 05, 2016, 01:14:19 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on April 05, 2016, 12:41:57 PM
Quote from: Gonzalo15 on April 04, 2016, 03:16:34 PM
Quote from: ONeill on April 03, 2016, 11:34:39 PM
Quote from: never kickt a ball on April 03, 2016, 10:14:47 PM
That National League final in Clones in 2002 where 25159 attended. Things were about to kick off for Tyrone over the next few years. Cavan were all over Tyrone in the first half if my memory serves me right.
Nope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6utbkUdTXU
Jesus, Canavan was mighty that day
The thing that sticks in my mind about that day was Mcguigans stepover followed by Canavans backheel flick to an on running ricey.
I was thinking about that the other day too and was going to trawl through that Youtube footage to find that incident. I wasn't sure if it was this game or the final v Laois the following year.
skip to 1hr 22 mins in that video
Cheers, that saved me a bit of time searching! Class! 😀
Pity Ricey didn't catch the flick and score from it as it was a lovely bit of skill which you never see in GAA much.
I remembered it but didn't realise it was in a NFL final. If the Dubs did it today there would be huge talk about it.
Didn't Canavan score a point or goal with his head one day out in America or did I dream that?
Have any of the Cavan lads been on to say they don't care about winning this yet?
I remember the year Monaghan beat us (in comical circumstances) in the Division 2 final.
It was like an All-Ireland to them.
Quote from: Jinxy on April 05, 2016, 04:07:57 PM
Have any of the Cavan lads been on to say they don't care about winning this yet?
I remember the year Monaghan beat us (in comical circumstances) in the Division 2 final.
It was like an All-Ireland to them.
You don't belong here Meath man.
Anyway I'm waiting for Tyrone boys to fill 10 pages about peter caravan before I make my prediction by how much Cavan will win by.
The bearded one agrees itchy
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=253183
Mickey throws a curved ball
Don't worry Itchy.
Jinxy, Main Street and a few others follow us around like a bad smell.
A little(lot)off topic, does anybody have any idea what the Loachra event after the League final will entail. Hopefully it will not be some cringeworty shi*e, with with all due respect to him, Micheal O muirahurthichty (spelt incorrectly too lazy to look it up) being rolled out to host.
Quote from: joemamas on April 06, 2016, 01:36:26 PM
A little(lot)off topic, does anybody have any idea what the Loachra event after the League final will entail. Hopefully it will not be some cringeworty shi*e, with with all due respect to him, Micheal O muirahurthichty (spelt incorrectly too lazy to look it up) being rolled out to host.
It's being organised and run by Tyrone Productions (no direct connection) -- they who gave us Riverdance, amongst others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fetOGKnrnA8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fetOGKnrnA8)
The GAA is planning a special event to mark the centenary of the 1916 Rising. Following the Division One and Two Allianz Football League Finals at Croke Park on Sunday April 24, we will present a show that will commemorate the Rising, the Proclamation, the story of Gaelic Games and the GAA's role since 1916. The show will incorporate large-scale innovative theatre, dance, song, poetry and pageantry. We are confident that this production will enhance what is already an eagerly anticipated Allianz League Finals double header.
Ticketing Details
Hogan Stand (No Concession) - €35 Adult
Cusack/Davin Stand -€35 Adult/ €5 Juveniles
Quote from: joemamas on April 06, 2016, 01:36:26 PM
A little(lot)off topic, does anybody have any idea what the Loachra event after the League final will entail. Hopefully it will not be some cringeworty shi*e, with with all due respect to him, Micheal O muirahurthichty (spelt incorrectly too lazy to look it up) being rolled out to host.
Will all that many even stay around for this?
If it's a Donegal v Roscommon or Kerry final, I'd imagine a lot of supporters will be fairly keen to start heading for home once the match is over. I think there is a bit of 1916 fatigue about as well at this stage after Easter.
bit steep those ticket prices imo gaa be hoping dubs reach final against kerry as that would mean stadium be half full at least
Quote from: BennyHarp on April 05, 2016, 01:14:19 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on April 05, 2016, 12:41:57 PM
Quote from: Gonzalo15 on April 04, 2016, 03:16:34 PM
Quote from: ONeill on April 03, 2016, 11:34:39 PM
Quote from: never kickt a ball on April 03, 2016, 10:14:47 PM
That National League final in Clones in 2002 where 25159 attended. Things were about to kick off for Tyrone over the next few years. Cavan were all over Tyrone in the first half if my memory serves me right.
Nope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6utbkUdTXU
Jesus, Canavan was mighty that day
The thing that sticks in my mind about that day was Mcguigans stepover followed by Canavans backheel flick to an on running ricey.
I was thinking about that the other day too and was going to trawl through that Youtube footage to find that incident. I wasn't sure if it was this game or the final v Laois the following year.
Even after Ricey fumbled her, Canavan's shoulder kept the move alive. He must've been a hateful hoor to mark.
Did you not put manners on him when he was a cub playing for errigal ciaran 2 v the hill
Aye but I was 6 years ouler than him.
Cavan....Canvan.......C
anavan. Fixed.
Lads, there's a big 1916 commemoration on in Croke Park the day of the league finals.
Lots of families will be there to enjoy the day out.
Try not to do anything to bring the game into disrepute...
that goes for the Tyrone lads as well.
Pivotal game for Tyrone.A third consecutive failure to beat a middle tier Ulster team, on top of relinquishing the the U21 crown could set back football in Tyrone for years
Quote from: T Fearon on April 12, 2016, 04:56:11 PM
Pivotal game for Tyrone.A third consecutive failure to beat a middle tier Ulster team, on top of relinquishing the the U21 crown could set back football in Tyrone for years
It is great to see the Armagh colours on display on Ulster final day.
https://youtu.be/6AWXWJ6O1vA
(Pity it's just the colour scheme on the nets ;) )
Quote from: Jinxy on April 05, 2016, 04:07:57 PM
Have any of the Cavan lads been on to say they don't care about winning this yet?
I remember the year Monaghan beat us (in comical circumstances) in the Division 2 final.
It was like an All-Ireland to them.
F*ckin right it was.. and I for one take no shame in that. Beating Meath any day is fierce craic, especially in Croke Park with the last kick of the ball and, it was the first piece of silverware we won in 17 years! You'll probably behave similarly over the next few years, now that the boot is on the other foot.
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on April 13, 2016, 09:41:06 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 05, 2016, 04:07:57 PM
Have any of the Cavan lads been on to say they don't care about winning this yet?
I remember the year Monaghan beat us (in comical circumstances) in the Division 2 final.
It was like an All-Ireland to them.
F*ckin right it was.. and I for one take no shame in that. Beating Meath any day is fierce craic, especially in Croke Park with the last kick of the ball and, it was the first piece of silverware we won in 17 years! You'll probably behave similarly over the next few years, now that the boot is on the other foot.
The buffoon comic effect was entirely provided by Meath and was enjoyed immensely by Monaghan folk.
This year final i'm curious to see how Cavan fare against Tyrone, they are grinding out their way to being contenders in Ulster this year.
Quote from: Main Street on April 13, 2016, 11:25:44 PM
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on April 13, 2016, 09:41:06 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 05, 2016, 04:07:57 PM
Have any of the Cavan lads been on to say they don't care about winning this yet?
I remember the year Monaghan beat us (in comical circumstances) in the Division 2 final.
It was like an All-Ireland to them.
F*ckin right it was.. and I for one take no shame in that. Beating Meath any day is fierce craic, especially in Croke Park with the last kick of the ball and, it was the first piece of silverware we won in 17 years! You'll probably behave similarly over the next few years, now that the boot is on the other foot.
The buffoon comic effect was entirely provided by Meath and was enjoyed immensely by Monaghan folk.
This year final i'm curious to see how Cavan fare against Tyrone, they are grinding out their way to being contenders in Ulster this year.
Odd use of the word "grinding"...
Expectation in Cavan is low. We have improved this year but probably not enough to beat Tyrone in Croke Park.
Cavan will fancy this game. Cavsn on an upward curve. Tyrone have gone off the boil a bit having secured promotion early. Cavan very athletic having had the benefit of Peter Donnelly for a few years. Cavan will hold no fear of Tyrone. Cavan beating Tyrone will be no surprise to many.
I'm expecting a decent game between the two.
I hope Cavan do it. They have been in the doldrums for a long time.
Quote from: Westside on April 14, 2016, 06:23:48 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 13, 2016, 11:25:44 PM
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on April 13, 2016, 09:41:06 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 05, 2016, 04:07:57 PM
Have any of the Cavan lads been on to say they don't care about winning this yet?
I remember the year Monaghan beat us (in comical circumstances) in the Division 2 final.
It was like an All-Ireland to them.
F*ckin right it was.. and I for one take no shame in that. Beating Meath any day is fierce craic, especially in Croke Park with the last kick of the ball and, it was the first piece of silverware we won in 17 years! You'll probably behave similarly over the next few years, now that the boot is on the other foot.
The buffoon comic effect was entirely provided by Meath and was enjoyed immensely by Monaghan folk.
This year final i'm curious to see how Cavan fare against Tyrone, they are grinding out their way to being contenders in Ulster this year.
Odd use of the word "grinding"...
Expectation in Cavan is low. We have improved this year but probably not enough to beat Tyrone in Croke Park.
Speak for yourself. I give us every chance and the numbers that will be travelling suggest i'm not alone in thinking so.
As an Armagh man I am hoping for a Cavan win as it is always good to see Tyrone beat and it is that long since Cavan won anything they might go on the drink for the summer and let Armagh beat them in May! :D
I don't think Tyrone are as good as some seem to think. What they have is a excellent manager, a winning mentality and a system which is well known by the players. However in my opinion they don't have anywhere near the talent they used to have. They are a 2nd tier team now and while you'd be foolish not to respect them you'd be even more foolish is fear them. It will be close but I fancy Cavan as they will have the hunger.
Quote from: Throw ball on April 14, 2016, 10:26:06 PM
As an Armagh man I am hoping for a Cavan win as it is always good to see Tyrone beat and it is that long since Cavan won anything they might go on the drink for the summer and let Armagh beat them in May! :D
There'll be a Monday club for me if they win it that's for sure ;D
Would any team have " the hunger" for a Divisional Final cupeen?
Quote from: Westside on April 14, 2016, 06:23:48 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 13, 2016, 11:25:44 PM
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on April 13, 2016, 09:41:06 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 05, 2016, 04:07:57 PM
Have any of the Cavan lads been on to say they don't care about winning this yet?
I remember the year Monaghan beat us (in comical circumstances) in the Division 2 final.
It was like an All-Ireland to them.
F*ckin right it was.. and I for one take no shame in that. Beating Meath any day is fierce craic, especially in Croke Park with the last kick of the ball and, it was the first piece of silverware we won in 17 years! You'll probably behave similarly over the next few years, now that the boot is on the other foot.
The buffoon comic effect was entirely provided by Meath and was enjoyed immensely by Monaghan folk.
This year final i'm curious to see how Cavan fare against Tyrone, they are grinding out their way to being contenders in Ulster this year.
Odd use of the word "grinding"...
Expectation in Cavan is low. We have improved this year but probably not enough to beat Tyrone in Croke Park.
You're right to pick upon my choice of word "grinding", it didn't describe what I meant to say , it was a poor choice of word.
Just, Cavan have shown great promise with underage teams and the seniors have finally emerged after being stuck in div 3 for 4 or 5 years.
I'm curious to see how they perform, i've no expectations but I hope they do well.
Ah Meath were cute after that. They sought out the man who gave them the pain that day and courted him until he became one of their own, when they prised Banty away from Monaghan.
Ithcy I think you are right this time. A lot of people have been talking up Tyrone in the last month saying they could be possible contenders this year having run Kerry close last year and walked through Div 2 unbeaten.
However I don't think they have any top quality forwards that you need such as McManus, Murphy & McBrearty, most of Dublin & Kerrys' forwards to seriously challenge.
We still struggle against well organised defences with players like McCurry, Ronan O'Neill and McAliskey all found struggling against well marshalled defences.
Saying that though I think Tyrone will up their performance in Croker in front of a big crowd as where Cavan might be a wee bit stage struck. It will be a very different game than the battle they had in Healy park a few months ago where Cavan put up a good fight and could have won it.
By Brendan Crossan today in the Irish News.
WHEN I was heavily involved with Newington Football Club, we played our home games at Muckamore Park. It was NHS property but, for 10 years or more, we had a fluid arrangement to make the nearby football pitch our home.
In those years, Muckamore Park was, without doubt, the worst facility in the Amateur League Premier Section. While other clubs boasted state-of-the-art facilities, pitches like billiard tables and clubrooms that smelt of new leather and frothy beer, Muckamore was from the dark ages.
We had rickety old mobile changing rooms. I was convinced that, if the entire team sat on one side of the room, you could topple the entire thing from outside with a decent shoulder charge. For safety, we made sure there was an equal amount of people on either side of the changing room.
And if you wanted a hot shower after a game, you needed to be quick because the immersion heater didn't hold out that long. In the depths of winter, players didn't mind being substituted because they were guaranteed some warm water before the end of a game.
It was that kind of place. It was truly dire. But we came to love the old field. God knows how it passed the odd inspection. The actual pitch had an awful slope to it, but it looked resplendent beneath August sunshine. By November, it was a muckheap.
There was no escaping the conclusion: Muckamore Park was a dump - but it was our dump. Before one game, we overheard a few of the visiting team describing our facilities as just that - "a dump".
Gleefully, we used that comment in our pre-match team-talk. We told our players not to disappoint our visitors. Beating our chests, we defiantly growled: 'Send them back to their comfy leather seats and frothy beer empty-handed!'
We felt like a race apart. We were the downtrodden but proud. Tension was a constant theme between ourselves and the authorities. We loved the fact that other teams felt a terrible sense of foreboding about coming to play at our pitch. It was their least favourite fixture by a country mile.
We won that particular game 3-0. I don't know if our pre-match talk had any bearing on the outcome of the game. We'd like to think it did. Maybe it was just another empty battle cry. Or maybe it gave us an extra five per cent that the other team didn't have.
Of course, every player has their own way of motivating themselves, but our siege mentality was like glue that we'd apply to the group 10 minutes before kick-off. When I think of those halcyon days, I think of Tyrone and the amount of material Mickey Harte and his backroom team have accrued over the last few seasons.
While some of Newington's siege mentality was rooted in the realms of our fertile imagination, it would appear Tyrone's doesn't have to be. The Red Hands don't have to engineer anything to make them paranoid.
The GAA was in the throes of the worst kind of moral panic when Sean Cavanagh rugby-tackled Conor McManus at Croke Park a couple of seasons ago. Likewise when Tiernan McCann stupidly threw himself to the ground against Monaghan last summer.
Not to deflect from these clear examples of cynical play, Tyrone contest the disproportionate nature of the criticism laid at their door. It was as if Tyrone footballers invented the dark arts and that nobody else committed sins quite like on the scale of the Ulster men.
RTE pundits Joe Brolly, Ciaran Whelan and Colm O'Rourke launched stinging criticisms of Tyrone. O'Rourke complained of a "smell" about Tyrone, while Whelan said that the Red Hands should "apologise" for McCann's antics.
Even the most pristine of juries couldn't help but be contaminated by the intense negativity swirling around the Tyrone camp. Had Tyrone really become the Uruguay of the All-Ireland Championship?
Or perhaps it's a little easier to have a go at Tyrone while their manager has the temerity not to talk to the 'national' broadcaster. One man's perceived intransigence is another man's principles.
An emergent aspect of the Tyrone story is the more Harte's RTE ban is discussed, the more Harte is depicted as the intransigent one when, in reality, his is the most obvious stance a father in his situation would take. It's a pity this particular media ban is in constant need of clear-eyed judgement.
In a recent interview, Tyrone assistant manager Gavin Devlin said Tyrone "didn't need" a siege mentality to be successful. He didn't even regard Joe Brolly as the proverbial blue-bottle that needed swatting. Smiling, Devlin added that, if Joe wasn't on The Sunday Game, it wasn't worth watching.
While there is a growing number of people who seem intent on perpetuating a negative image of Tyrone football, the GAA's favourite panto villain is coming to get them. They're right behind Dublin and Kerry. And they will win another All-Ireland soon.
It might be this year. It might be next year. But this group will win the game's greatest prize. Given that Tyrone were merely a developing team last summer, they should really have beaten Kerry in the All-Ireland semi-final.
Perhaps Devlin was being too kind to their eventual conquerors last summer when he said: "I genuinely believe Kerry just got the better of us in the last 10 minutes of that game. That was a learning curve for us. Kerry were just that wee bit better."
Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone and Mayo are likely to be the teams still standing in late August. Right now, the Dubs love playing Kerry and Mayo because they invariably win. But they don't like playing Tyrone.
That's an advantage before a Championship ball has been thrown in. The Red Hands have the talent to go two steps further than last year. And if they need it, they always have that five per cent extra in their back pockets.
Quote from: Fuzzman on April 15, 2016, 10:42:35 AM
RTE pundits Joe Brolly, Ciaran Whelan and Colm O'Rourke launched stinging criticisms of Tyrone. O'Rourke complained of a "smell" about Tyrone, while Whelan said that the Red Hands should "apologise" for McCann's antics.
there is definitely a woe is me, the world is against us vibe that Tyrone like to play up. Presumably to build up the siege mentality.
For example the above indicates that Ciaran Whelan said that Tyrone should apologise for McCann's antics, whereas what he actually said was, based on his own experience of getting bad press from disciplinary incidents, was that Tiernan should apologise on the Monday morning for a stupid thing he did in the heat of the moment, and then that would immediately mean the incident was over and done with, rather than being dragged on by the media for days or weeks (or months now given the Tyrone lads love keep bringing it up!)
There have been plenty of dives in GAA, but that was by far and away the most obvious / worst feigning of injury in a high profile game, which is why it got more attention than any prior or subsequent transgressions.
Genuine question and the answer is something I have missed somewhere but why does Harte boycott RTE. that article mentioned a stance any father would take. Did RTE say something untoward regarding the tragedy the Harte family went through?
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 15, 2016, 11:30:29 AM
Genuine question and the answer is something I have missed somewhere but why does Harte boycott RTE. that article mentioned a stance any father would take. Did RTE say something untoward regarding the tragedy the Harte family went through?
Are you being disingenuous or have you been living under a rock?
Try google Tonto.
Whelan was hilarious last year in his defence of Dublin. Was it the incident with Philly McMahon and O'Shea or something else where he really dug his heels in and made a bit of a fool of himself.
Simple question which I doubt you'll answer directly Hound.
If a Tyrone defender stuck his fingers in D.Connolly's eye the EXACT same way McCarthy did do you think there would have been a different reaction from the media and the CCCC?
I thought it funny watching Laochra Gael last week on Giles Whelan going on about Trevor Giles short sleeved shirt warranted a few extra clips from our boys and then giggling.
After some of the mouthing he done last year about tyrone.
Quote from: beer baron on April 14, 2016, 10:20:13 PM
Quote from: Westside on April 14, 2016, 06:23:48 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 13, 2016, 11:25:44 PM
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on April 13, 2016, 09:41:06 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 05, 2016, 04:07:57 PM
Have any of the Cavan lads been on to say they don't care about winning this yet?
I remember the year Monaghan beat us (in comical circumstances) in the Division 2 final.
It was like an All-Ireland to them.
F*ckin right it was.. and I for one take no shame in that. Beating Meath any day is fierce craic, especially in Croke Park with the last kick of the ball and, it was the first piece of silverware we won in 17 years! You'll probably behave similarly over the next few years, now that the boot is on the other foot.
The buffoon comic effect was entirely provided by Meath and was enjoyed immensely by Monaghan folk.
This year final i'm curious to see how Cavan fare against Tyrone, they are grinding out their way to being contenders in Ulster this year.
Odd use of the word "grinding"...
Expectation in Cavan is low. We have improved this year but probably not enough to beat Tyrone in Croke Park.
Speak for yourself. I give us every chance and the numbers that will be travelling suggest i'm not alone in thinking so.
The crowd going is no representation of the expectation though baron in fairness. There would be a huge Cavan crowd regardless of who we were playing. I don't expect us to roll over and let Tyrone tickle our bellies by any means but would I be moderately surprised if we won? Yes. There's very little in the form guide to point to a Cavan win barring two dropped points by Tyrone when they were already promoted. We're at 2/1 with the bookies.
Really looking forward to this game, 32,000 tickets sold already.
Any word on Seanie's fitness for this?
I noticed we're 2/1 with the bookies and think that definitely undervalues our chances, i'd have us about 6/4 at best if i was forming a book and i'll be having a go but i'll sit tight for a few days and hope someone goes 9/4.
Tyrone and plenty watching on TV or neutrals there on the day will be getting a big shock at how we're playing now and the layout of our team. I can't remember the last time(if ever) we had 3 men over 6ft 2 or 3 in the forward line and all with ability although Givney's point taking leaves a bit to be desired so far this year ;D
From my speaking to lads around Cootehill/Drung/Cavan Town etc there's plenty of optimism and i'll be very disappointed if it's anything other than a very tight game and give us every chance of getting the win.
Quote from: oakleafgael on April 15, 2016, 11:50:36 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 15, 2016, 11:30:29 AM
Genuine question and the answer is something I have missed somewhere but why does Harte boycott RTE. that article mentioned a stance any father would take. Did RTE say something untoward regarding the tragedy the Harte family went through?
Are you being disingenuous or have you been living under a rock?
Like I said, genuine question and the answer is something I have missed somewhere. I live in Manchester, so yeah, under a rock
Quote from: Fuzzman on April 15, 2016, 11:58:04 AM
Try google Tonto.
I honestly didn't know that and I don't know how I missed it
Quote from: Fuzzman on April 15, 2016, 11:58:04 AM
Simple question which I doubt you'll answer directly Hound.
If a Tyrone defender stuck his fingers in D.Connolly's eye the EXACT same way McCarthy did do you think there would have been a different reaction from the media and the CCCC?
This is the typical woe is me whataboutery that some Tyrone fans love!
There would have been no different reaction.
Whatever about anyone's personal views, there is clearly debate about whether it was deliberate or not. At normal speed the eye contact looked accidental, in slow motion it looked deliberate.
On the live broadcast James Horan was adamant that it was accidental - do you think James Horan would have had a different view if it was a Tyrone offender?
On Setanta's highlights Paul Galvin said it was accidental.
On the RTE highlights Tomas OSe and James McCartan both said it was deliberate.
So a mixed media reaction.
McCarthy was yellow carded for the incident. Not impossible, but extremely rare that an incident where the ref gives a card is re-looked at by CCCC. Particulary so when there is doubt surrounding it. Repeat the exact facts for any other player in a similar profile match and the outcome would have been the same. But it seems for some to suit the Tyrone mantra to think otherwise.
Very low key build up before the 2 league finals with not even a thread for the Dubs v Kerry game.
Are many of ye coming down from Tyrone for the game. I'd say Cavan could outnumber us as I think a lot of Tyrone fans have lost the appetite from last decade.
Looks a decent team he's putting out and interesting he's got Justy back in at CHB.
Quote from: Fuzzman on April 22, 2016, 03:54:25 PM
Very low key build up before the 2 league finals with not even a thread for the Dubs v Kerry game.
Are many of ye coming down from Tyrone for the game. I'd say Cavan could outnumber us as I think a lot of Tyrone fans have lost the appetite from last decade.
Looks a decent team he's putting out and interesting he's got Justy back in at CHB.
I assume McMahon is centre back to man mark McKeirnan? He is a main player for Cavan and physically imposing. Good player too.
Looks like Sunday is going to be a sell out. Almost 80k tickets sold. Should be a great buzz in the stadium, once the Dubs come in after Super Sunday.
Two mediocre Ulster teams who will hardly attract neutrals who will be there in their droves to see Kerry and Dublin
Quote from: T Fearon on April 22, 2016, 07:46:06 PM
Two mediocre Ulster teams who will hardly attract neutrals who will be there in their droves to see Kerry and Dublin
Haha, you're a divil ;D
Quote from: Hound on April 15, 2016, 11:18:49 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on April 15, 2016, 10:42:35 AM
RTE pundits Joe Brolly, Ciaran Whelan and Colm O'Rourke launched stinging criticisms of Tyrone. O'Rourke complained of a "smell" about Tyrone, while Whelan said that the Red Hands should "apologise" for McCann's antics.
there is definitely a woe is me, the world is against us vibe that Tyrone like to play up. Presumably to build up the siege mentality.
For example the above indicates that Ciaran Whelan said that Tyrone should apologise for McCann's antics, whereas what he actually said was, based on his own experience of getting bad press from disciplinary incidents, was that Tiernan should apologise on the Monday morning for a stupid thing he did in the heat of the moment, and then that would immediately mean the incident was over and done with, rather than being dragged on by the media for days or weeks (or months now given the Tyrone lads love keep bringing it up!)
There have been plenty of dives in GAA, but that was by far and away the most obvious / worst feigning of injury in a high profile game, which is why it got more attention than any prior or subsequent transgressions.
Ciaran Whelan said McCann "should" come out and apologise.
He didn't look for Philly McMahon or Johnny Cooper to apologise, in fact, he actually tried to defend their actions and downplay the attention that should be attributed to them. Blatant double standards and hypocrisy, something the southern media are experts at. To go by RTE's mantra, a bad smell must follow the Dublin senior GAA teams around with the multiple biting incidents their players have been involved in (O'Gara and O'Brien) in recent seasons, the multiple gouging incidents (McCarthy and McMahon), the multiple mass scale brawls in friendly matches (Armagh in football, Galway in hurling) and the other unsavoury incidents involving their players - (Cooper's potentially career ending challenge on O'Connor last year, the same player also deliberately collapsing his knees onto a prone John Heslin in the Leinster final). MacAuley regularly acting the tr**p, Connolly's violent past.
Yet we don't have people in the media pushing this narrative about Dublin even though if they were to abide by their own standards, a bad smell follows Dublin senior GAA players throughout the years.
Quote from: beer baron on April 22, 2016, 08:06:14 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on April 22, 2016, 07:46:06 PM
Two mediocre Ulster teams who will hardly attract neutrals who will be there in their droves to see Kerry and Dublin
Haha, you're a divil ;D
Mediocre attempt at baiting more like.
Have to say this is one of my favourite GAA pictures of the year - Sean looks so sad it in I just can't help laughing. The pain in his eyes and the sorrow as he contemplates just why exactly he agreed to go along with the concept behind the photoshoot.
(http://www.gaa.ie/mm/Photo/GaaIe/GAANews/12/69/84/126984_HERO.jpg)
Ha! He really wasn't pleased atall.
https://twitter.com/The42GAA/status/723503598626320384?s=09
Good open game so far with some good scores from play.
Referee very poor for both teams - blowing for petty fouls much to both teams annoyance. Always thought he was a fussy ref not suited to the physical side of the game. Not a good sign when both sets of players not happy. Hope he doesn't get the gig for Celtic Park in May or it will be a nightmare!
Game wise, Tyrone finding scores much easier to get but Cavan will be there or thereabouts with ten to go. They are a much better team now that they have defected away from the defensive stuff they used to play. Hope they stick at it but Tyrone are just a wee bit cuter and will win by 5+.
I'm watching a different game then lad. Think the ref is doing well. Cavan are playing defensively but they are breaking in numbers very well. Tyrone lying very deep defensively
About a fair reflection of where the teams are at there in the first half. Cavan have a lot of pluck but Tyrone look very comfortable and more at home at this level. A few Cavan errors giving scores to Tyrone and overall, there's way more space in Cavan's defence than in Tyrone's, so only one side's game winners are able to make an impression - Johnston, Givney, McKiernan not in it at all. Cavan need to shake themselves or this game will be gone away from them 10 mins into the second half, they have to get their key men into the game and stop Tyrone running through the middle so easily.
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 02:10:19 PM
I'm watching a different game then lad. Think the ref is doing well. Cavan are playing defensively but they are breaking in numbers very well. Tyrone lying very deep defensively
19 scores between the 2 teams would indicate it is hardly the most defensive game in the world.
Unless Cavan get some goals I can't see them winning as Tyrone are just that bit better and still have the ability to grind out wins.
Looking at the bigger picture I haven't seen anything to challenge the notion that Tyrone will be a danger to any team who wants to win Sam but it's wild hard to see them doing it this year. A lot of Tyrone's best play seems to be driven by the old reliables.
Serious point and goal there. The black card just before should have been yellow.
Ridiculous decision by a poor ref, never a black card.
Good goal.
Ref is f**king Cavan, you can't try a tackle and it's a free. Black card also pathetic
No way that was a black card. Looks like it will hardly matter now anyway!
Tyrone forward pulls down Cavan back - free but no card of any sort.
Cavan midfielder fouls Tyrone man with illegal charge - black card.
New rule book or what?
Goal Tyrone - all over.
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 24, 2016, 02:39:28 PM
Serious point and goal there. The black card just before should have been yellow.
Yup - almost impossible to see any way back for Cavan from here.
Don't think it's was a black card either. Poor decision. Ref very inconsistent for both teams.
Quote from: twohands!!! on April 24, 2016, 02:18:43 PM
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 02:10:19 PM
I'm watching a different game then lad. Think the ref is doing well. Cavan are playing defensively but they are breaking in numbers very well. Tyrone lying very deep defensively
19 scores between the 2 teams would indicate it is hardly the most defensive game in the world.
Unless Cavan get some goals I can't see them winning as Tyrone are just that bit better and still have the ability to grind out wins.
Looking at the bigger picture I haven't seen anything to challenge the notion that Tyrone will be a danger to any team who wants to win Sam but it's wild hard to see them doing it this year. A lot of Tyrone's best play seems to be driven by the old reliables.
There could be 40 scores and still defensive. Just means they aren't very effective at it.
The lesser-spotted half-volley point there.
Quote from: Itchy on April 24, 2016, 02:39:54 PM
Ref is f**king Cavan, you can't try a tackle and it's a free. Black card also pathetic
Cavan are terrible in the tackle, that hasn't changed. Should have been a yellow but he did kick him.
Tyrone ease out the gap to 6 points again to kill the Cavan response to the goal stone dead.
Predictable end result. Fairly average viewing in that second half.
Tiernan giving his post-match interview there - "all our thoughts are on [pause, feckit what the's date again] the 22nd of May"
12 different scorers for Cavan and 8 for Tyrone.
Deliberate trip by the Cavan player, black card all day long.
Comfortable enough.
McAliskey kicked a few outstanding scores, Harte and McCann were at the forefront for us during the game.
Few points:
- Bradley is extremely wasteful in his shooting, however he counters this off with his industry and creativity.
- Ronan O'Neill is pretty much the other end of the spectrum, a brilliant finisher, 1-02 today from play but he coughed up possession extremely easily on countless occasions today. He is really working hard though and hopefully he can improve his ball protection as the summer goes on.
Quote from: AQMP on April 24, 2016, 03:12:34 PM
Deliberate trip by the Cavan player, black card all day long.
Would agree with this, an extremely lazy and stupid tackle from the Cavan player. His leg is dangled out there right across McMahon so he can have little complaint.
This is bigger than the McKenna cup, congrats to Tyrone.
Sean C had his victory speech written in advance, that's what you call preparation.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on April 24, 2016, 03:14:26 PM
Quote from: AQMP on April 24, 2016, 03:12:34 PM
Deliberate trip by the Cavan player, black card all day long.
Would agree with this, an extremely lazy and stupid tackle from the Cavan player. His leg is dangled out there right across McMahon so he can have little complaint.
Just had a look back at it and it could have been a red. More of a kick than a trip
Tyrone current media position as the no.4 in line for sam not evident today, very mediocre and predictable football. Maybe they were holding back but that would not be Mickey Hartes mo.
Three years ago, Cavan looked like a raw team with a certain amount of potential that, if polished and enhanced, could bridge a gap and perhaps see them challenging the top sides.
Three years later, we seem to be stuck in precisely the same position. In fact this game was almost a carbon copy of the All-Ireland quarter-final against Kerry - a gamey enough, proud, stoic effort in some respects from Cavan but there was the distinct impression that the superior team was not in top gear at all and was keeping them at arm's length throughout. The hope was that Cavan would push on after 2013 but on today's evidence, not so - Cavan are still a nearly team with many positives to comfort them but yet, a long way off, and displaying no real evidence that they have the craft or know how to step up out of the chasing pack. We'll give a few teams a fright this summer maybe, but Cavan look to have plateau'd and unless today proves a massive learning experience that rewrites the script, we won't be forcing that curve upwards any time soon.
Well done Tyrone. Better, cuter, craftier, wilier, more experienced on the field and the line, and fully deserved winners.
Deliberate trip is a black card, ref got it right.
Not much more than a friendly going by the challenges. Very inconsistent refereeing. I will agree with those who thought the black card was wrong. An obviously pull down did not get a card earlier either. Thought Donnelly was unlucky to get two yellows too. Cavan were never going to get a goal today and they had some bad wides. Tyrone I just that wee bit better than Cavan at the minute and they are very economical. Their biggest strength though is that they are very good at stopping other teams implementing their game plan. Well coached and I still thing the team is much better than the sum of its parts.
Black card incident doesn't matter in the overall scheme of things. Cavan could have played 16 v 15 and still not won that game.
Quote from: giveballaghback on April 24, 2016, 03:16:26 PM
Tyrone current media position as the no.4 in line for sam not evident today, very mediocre and predictable football. Maybe they were holding back but that would not be Mickey Hartes mo.
Our big problem is we have been stuck in div 2 all year and bad habits have creeped in. On that performance we wouldn't trouble Dublin or Kerry. But I suppose we weren't playin Dublin or Kerry today. I'd like to think we'd rise our game if we were.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on April 24, 2016, 03:14:26 PM
Quote from: AQMP on April 24, 2016, 03:12:34 PM
Deliberate trip by the Cavan player, black card all day long.
Would agree with this, an extremely lazy and stupid tackle from the Cavan player. His leg is dangled out there right across McMahon so he can have little complaint.
For the life of me I cannot see how that is even close to a red card. I can see why a black was given but think it was a yellow. The Cavan player tried to go for the ball and was late. To be black the referee has to deem this deliberate. I didn't think it was but agree it was borderline.
Quote from: cavanmaniac on April 24, 2016, 03:16:49 PM
Three years ago, Cavan looked like a raw team with a certain amount of potential that, if polished and enhanced, could bridge a gap and perhaps see them challenging the top sides.
Three years later, we seem to be stuck in precisely the same position. In fact this game was almost a carbon copy of the All-Ireland quarter-final against Kerry - a gamey enough, proud, stoic effort in some respects from Cavan but there was the distinct impression that the superior team was not in top gear at all and was keeping them at arm's length throughout. The hope was that Cavan would push on after 2013 but on today's evidence, not so - Cavan are still a nearly team with many positives to comfort them but yet, a long way off, and displaying no real evidence that they have the craft or know how to step up out of the chasing pack. We'll give a few teams a fright this summer maybe, but Cavan look to have plateau'd and unless today proves a massive learning experience that rewrites the script, we won't be forcing that curve upwards any time soon.
Well done Tyrone. Better, cuter, craftier, wilier, more experienced on the field and the line, and fully deserved winners.
Tyrone are a Croke Park team, they like the pace the pitch plays at the space that opens up as a result. If this game was in Clones, Omagh or Breffni Park it would be a much closer fought game. Felt we were comfortable enough today and Cavan have added a bit more physicality this year compared to previous year which will make them a sterner test.
Quote from: Throw ball on April 24, 2016, 03:24:53 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on April 24, 2016, 03:14:26 PM
Quote from: AQMP on April 24, 2016, 03:12:34 PM
Deliberate trip by the Cavan player, black card all day long.
Would agree with this, an extremely lazy and stupid tackle from the Cavan player. His leg is dangled out there right across McMahon so he can have little complaint.
For the life of me I cannot see how that is even close to a red card. I can see why a black was given but think it was a yellow. The Cavan player tried to go for the ball and was late. To be black the referee has to deem this deliberate. I didn't think it was but agree it was borderline.
I don't think it was a red but it was a certain black card.
It was a deliberate trip, completely needless and stupid from the Cavan player, McMahon beat him to the ball and he dangled out a lazy foot across him to bring him down. By the letter of the law, it was a black card.
This is exactly the problem with the black card rule.we have had about 10 people on here now commenting on the challenge, and it's about 50/50 on whether it was a yellow or a black (and one suggestion it was a red)
Any streams?
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on April 24, 2016, 03:28:36 PM
This is exactly the problem with the black card rule.we have had about 10 people on here now commenting on the challenge, and it's about 50/50 on whether it was a yellow or a black (and one suggestion it was a red)
Whether he "dangled" his leg or not it was a deliberate action you could see on the replay he looked to see where McMahon was. Clear black.
Quote from: cavanmaniac on April 24, 2016, 03:16:49 PM
Three years ago, Cavan looked like a raw team with a certain amount of potential that, if polished and enhanced, could bridge a gap and perhaps see them challenging the top sides.
Three years later, we seem to be stuck in precisely the same position. In fact this game was almost a carbon copy of the All-Ireland quarter-final against Kerry - a gamey enough, proud, stoic effort in some respects from Cavan but there was the distinct impression that the superior team was not in top gear at all and was keeping them at arm's length throughout. The hope was that Cavan would push on after 2013 but on today's evidence, not so - Cavan are still a nearly team with many positives to comfort them but yet, a long way off, and displaying no real evidence that they have the craft or know how to step up out of the chasing pack. We'll give a few teams a fright this summer maybe, but Cavan look to have plateau'd and unless today proves a massive learning experience that rewrites the script, we won't be forcing that curve upwards any time soon.
Well done Tyrone. Better, cuter, craftier, wilier, more experienced on the field and the line, and fully deserved winners.
Forget about this championship - of far more benefit to Cavan's long-term future is 7 games against Division 1 teams next year in the league.
Compare that to the 7 teams Cavan have played in the Championship since that Kerry game - Monaghan, London, Roscommon,
Armagh, Wesmeath, Roscommon, Armagh - even though those were Championship game there is a serious difference in the quality between the 2 groups.
Filthy hit from Crowley there.
I'd be surprised if there isn't a cracked rib there.
Quote from: hardstation on April 24, 2016, 03:48:31 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on April 24, 2016, 03:44:13 PM
Filthy hit from Crowley there.
Ach it wasn't really. Small tried to jump through him and Crowley turned his body.
Turned his shoulder into a man running at him, really nasty and knew full well what he was at.
Kerry being rode.
Kilkenny seems to have Fitzgerald in a world of bother.
Dublin showing Kerry a lot of repect here. Must be a historical thing. Why don t they have a cut at them like they do other teams.
Kerry don't have the legs for the task .
O Se needs to be taken off Brogan he is getting destroyed.
Quote from: ashman on April 24, 2016, 04:02:01 PM
Kerry don't have the legs for the task .
Was about to say the same. Some of the older lads could really suffer here later. Marc O Sé in trouble with Brogan.
Usual sympathetic refereeing keeping Kerry in it.
Quote from: hardstation on April 24, 2016, 03:56:20 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on April 24, 2016, 03:51:39 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 24, 2016, 03:48:31 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on April 24, 2016, 03:44:13 PM
Filthy hit from Crowley there.
Ach it wasn't really. Small tried to jump through him and Crowley turned his body.
Turned his shoulder into a man running at him, really nasty and knew full well what he was at.
Small jumped at him, it's a natural reaction to turn for protection. It was a foul but that's about it. Had he not turned, Small would have been done for charging.
It's a natural reaction to turn your shoulder into someone running straight toward you if your intention is to do them - which was Crowley's intention.
Quote from: hardstation on April 24, 2016, 03:56:20 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on April 24, 2016, 03:51:39 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 24, 2016, 03:48:31 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on April 24, 2016, 03:44:13 PM
Filthy hit from Crowley there.
Ach it wasn't really. Small tried to jump through him and Crowley turned his body.
Turned his shoulder into a man running at him, really nasty and knew full well what he was at.
Small jumped at him, it's a natural reaction to turn for protection. It was a foul but that's about it. Had he not turned, Small would have been done for charging.
Small had already taken his steps and jumped into the tackle, not even a free for me
Small had actually tried to step inside Crowley and Crowley nails him with a frontal charge into the chest. It was an extremely dangerous tackle and deliberate tackle where it should have been a yellow card at the very least. Crowley has previous for acting the tr**p as well, I suppose he's cute though.
Crowley acting the tr**p again.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on April 24, 2016, 04:34:13 PM
Crowley acting the tr**p again.
NEVER! It's a good clean game with no off the ball stuff, no diving in the penalty area .........
If Dublin were not so casual at times Kerry would have been in a lot of trouble.
I did say Kerry were probably in for a bigger hammering in the final than we got. One team AI. Might quite down people hyping a Kerry team that's not within an ass' roar of Dublin for a while.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Eddie Kinsella is a joke of a ref.
Have to say I enjoyed the Dublin Kerry game!
Cad é an rún? Jim Gavin imo.
Thank God Dublin can get a game outside Leinster.
From a Kildare point of view there is no incentive to reach a Leinster final, I could see Dublin score 10 goals against them if they wanted. Only Mayo if they can get their act together stand a chance of competing with Dublin this year.
Kerry have no pace around the middle of the pitch.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 24, 2016, 05:10:00 PM
Cad é an rún? Jim Gavin imo.
Airgead!
How long is is it since Dublin were beaten at home? Donegal 2014?
You can never turn the screw enough on those hoors.
They make Dinny Breen look like a gracious loser.
Quote from: moysider on April 24, 2016, 03:55:57 PM
Why don t they have a cut at them like they do other teams.
I couldn't possible answer that.
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on April 24, 2016, 05:14:21 PM
From a Kildare point of view there is no incentive to reach a Leinster final, I could see Dublin score 10 goals against them if they wanted. Only Mayo if they can get their act together stand a chance of competing with Dublin this year.
It's some laugh with all the resources, talent and population you have you can't beat Clare. Clare have only a few football clubs to pick from and have to go to other counties to get players a.
Don't blame us for that. No doubt you will try.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 24, 2016, 05:18:55 PM
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on April 24, 2016, 05:14:21 PM
From a Kildare point of view there is no incentive to reach a Leinster final, I could see Dublin score 10 goals against them if they wanted. Only Mayo if they can get their act together stand a chance of competing with Dublin this year.
It's some laugh with all the resources, talent and population you have you can't beat Clare. Clare have only a few football clubs to pick from and have to go to other counties to get players a.
Don't blame us for that. No doubt you will try.
We never got an answer to the question whether Kildare were making the most of what was available to them - I think we all know the answer to that question.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on April 24, 2016, 05:14:52 PM
Kerry have no pace around the middle of the pitch.
Yeah, missing Maher there! Donaghy an average replacement!
It is not a matter of blaming Dublin or saying Kildare should be capable of raising millions to compete. It is becoming clear that football is dead in Leinster and as Dublin start hammering more teams from outside the province the same will happen them. Make no mistake Kerry will be scarred by that result.
Dublin are doing everything right but the GAA is going to have to help other counties compete financially soon or the damage done will be permanent.
Dublin don't give a shit about anyone but themselves. Take away the millions in grants take away the home advantage and they would soon be back whinging alongside the rest of us. Corporate GAA created a Monster and the Monster is slowly eating eating the GAA. Would respect Clare's achievement yesterday far more. That's what the GAA should be about not this professional v amateur sham.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 24, 2016, 05:49:42 PM
Dublin don't give a shit about anyone but themselves. Take away the millions in grants take away the home advantage and they would soon be back whinging alongside the rest of us. Corporate GAA created a Monster and the Monster is slowly eating eating the GAA. Would respect Clare's achievement yesterday far more. That's what the GAA should be about not this professional v amateur sham.
What to do though? There is no going back. Dublin have raised the bar and there is no lowering it down again.
Quote from: moysider on April 24, 2016, 05:58:03 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 24, 2016, 05:49:42 PM
Dublin don't give a shit about anyone but themselves. Take away the millions in grants take away the home advantage and they would soon be back whinging alongside the rest of us. Corporate GAA created a Monster and the Monster is slowly eating eating the GAA. Would respect Clare's achievement yesterday far more. That's what the GAA should be about not this professional v amateur sham.
What to do though? There is no going back. Dublin have raised the bar and there is no lowering it down again.
It's a false bar take away their money and home advantage and that would be a start as would a wealth tax as per the AFL. There isn't a will though to roll them in, Corporate GAA are too short sighted to see the long term damage inflicted on the game.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 24, 2016, 06:02:56 PM
Quote from: moysider on April 24, 2016, 05:58:03 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 24, 2016, 05:49:42 PM
Dublin don't give a shit about anyone but themselves. Take away the millions in grants take away the home advantage and they would soon be back whinging alongside the rest of us. Corporate GAA created a Monster and the Monster is slowly eating eating the GAA. Would respect Clare's achievement yesterday far more. That's what the GAA should be about not this professional v amateur sham.
What to do though? There is no going back. Dublin have raised the bar and there is no lowering it down again.
It's a false bar take away their money and home advantage and that would be a start as would a wealth tax as per the AFL. There isn't a will though to roll them in, Corporate GAA are too short sighted to see the long term damage inflicted on the game.
You can take the money away Dinny no problem -we will be better then everyone else more years then not.
Since 1884 . None of you know your GAA History here.
Kildare even with our resources would still find something to whinge about.
That you can be sure of
Quote from: INDIANA on April 24, 2016, 06:08:12 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 24, 2016, 06:02:56 PM
Quote from: moysider on April 24, 2016, 05:58:03 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 24, 2016, 05:49:42 PM
Dublin don't give a shit about anyone but themselves. Take away the millions in grants take away the home advantage and they would soon be back whinging alongside the rest of us. Corporate GAA created a Monster and the Monster is slowly eating eating the GAA. Would respect Clare's achievement yesterday far more. That's what the GAA should be about not this professional v amateur sham.
What to do though? There is no going back. Dublin have raised the bar and there is no lowering it down again.
It's a false bar take away their money and home advantage and that would be a start as would a wealth tax as per the AFL. There isn't a will though to roll them in, Corporate GAA are too short sighted to see the long term damage inflicted on the game.
You can take the money away Dinny no problem -we will be better then everyone else more years then not.
Since 1884 . None of you know your GAA History here.
Kildare even with our resources would still find something to whinge about.
That you can be sure of
I'm sure we can find a few walls to point Kildare in the direction of, to piss away their yields from the 2016 Leinster Championship games.
Didn't the other Leinster counties not all vote to keep Dublin playing at home. They would rather had their share of the money than give there teams a fair crack at it
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 06:12:18 PM
Didn't the other Leinster counties not all vote to keep Dublin playing at home. They would rather had their share of the money than give there teams a fair crack at it
11/12 Counties continually voted to keep Dublin in Croke Park because of the socialist money distribution system.
10/11 County Chairmen (excluding Dublin obviously) when asked last year by a journalist do they want Dublin out of Croke park said yes - go figure.
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 06:12:18 PM
Didn't the other Leinster counties not all vote to keep Dublin playing at home. They would rather had their share of the money than give there teams a fair crack at it
They did, great lads, Corporate influence no doubt. Dublin will play 11 games at home this year 4 away. Last year it was 12 at home 3 away, year before 11 and 4 year before that 12 and 3 and the year before that 13 and 2,.Kildare being the Muppets we are gave up home advantage in the league. Imagine the craic in any other where on team gets to play roughly 70% of their games at home.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 24, 2016, 06:31:30 PM
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 06:12:18 PM
Didn't the other Leinster counties not all vote to keep Dublin playing at home. They would rather had their share of the money than give there teams a fair crack at it
They did, great lads, Corporate influence no doubt. Dublin will play 11 games at home this year 4 away. Last year it was 12 at home 3 away, year before 11 and 4 year before that 12 and 3 and the year before that 13 and 2,.Kildare being the Muppets we are gave up home advantage in the league. Imagine the craic in any other where on team gets to play roughly 70% of their games at home.
The players all seem to want it as they get the chance to play at croke park.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 24, 2016, 06:31:30 PM
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 06:12:18 PM
Didn't the other Leinster counties not all vote to keep Dublin playing at home. They would rather had their share of the money than give there teams a fair crack at it
They did, great lads, Corporate influence no doubt. Dublin will play 11 games at home this year 4 away. Last year it was 12 at home 3 away, year before 11 and 4 year before that 12 and 3 and the year before that 13 and 2,.Kildare being the Muppets we are gave up home advantage in the league. Imagine the craic in any other where on team gets to play roughly 70% of their games at home.
how did the clare match go last night?
Quote from: INDIANA on April 24, 2016, 06:39:05 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 24, 2016, 06:31:30 PM
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 06:12:18 PM
Didn't the other Leinster counties not all vote to keep Dublin playing at home. They would rather had their share of the money than give there teams a fair crack at it
They did, great lads, Corporate influence no doubt. Dublin will play 11 games at home this year 4 away. Last year it was 12 at home 3 away, year before 11 and 4 year before that 12 and 3 and the year before that 13 and 2,.Kildare being the Muppets we are gave up home advantage in the league. Imagine the craic in any other where on team gets to play roughly 70% of their games at home.
how did the clare match go last night?
The game that was played at a neutral venue? Check the thread.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 24, 2016, 06:44:14 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 24, 2016, 06:39:05 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 24, 2016, 06:31:30 PM
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 06:12:18 PM
Didn't the other Leinster counties not all vote to keep Dublin playing at home. They would rather had their share of the money than give there teams a fair crack at it
They did, great lads, Corporate influence no doubt. Dublin will play 11 games at home this year 4 away. Last year it was 12 at home 3 away, year before 11 and 4 year before that 12 and 3 and the year before that 13 and 2,.Kildare being the Muppets we are gave up home advantage in the league. Imagine the craic in any other where on team gets to play roughly 70% of their games at home.
how did the clare match go last night?
The game that was played at a neutral venue? Check the thread.
Just wondering about the result. Seriously Dinny you've no right to be raising any issues in relation to Dublin when you can't beat counties with small picks like Clare. It's like Swansea thinking they can win the Premier League. That's your current level.
Dublin are not responsible for the shambolic state of Leinster Football.
Dublin did not get Kildare relegated to Div 3. Dublin did not get Westmeath relegated to Div 4. The counties are responsible for that.
When you get back to Div 1 then you may have a point but Kildare have a huge population base, a great network of clubs and a very good development system. Yet you're been in Div 3.
Enjoyed seeing Kerry being put on their arse! We'll hear nothing but talk of hurting for the next 7 weeks and beyond. We'd have been hearing it anyway as a National League title means nothing down south really. You have to remember that Kerry were without Maher and JOD! Two important players.
Dublin are virtually unbeatable at home. They naturally know Croker inside out. Plus the large partisan crowd! That aligned to a super group means all the Major Aces! The rest of are fading while Dublin are growing.
Thought it was an excellent game overall, especially the first half. Not sure what Kerry were trying in the second half, they seemed to have only one plan - lump it in on a very isolated Donaghy.
Quote from: Zulu on April 24, 2016, 09:51:30 PM
Thought it was an excellent game overall, especially the first half. Not sure what Kerry were trying in the second half, they seemed to have only one plan - lump it in on a very isolated Donaghy.
They lumped it up in the last 20 as they were collectively gassed. The key difference today was conditioning. There was a kick of a ball in it with 10 to go and that was with Dublin benefitting from both keepers kickouts. Add Kerrys age profile to Dublins conditioning and I can't really see Kerry troubling the Dubs this summer or for a while to come.
Donegal, who were conditioned to crazy levels (or as close to Dublin levels as another county can get these days) did get one over on them with a major rub of the green on the day and fair play to them. Dublin would need to implode big time and everything click for the likes of Mayo, Donegal or even Kerry to beat them @ CP this year
Kerry have way too much tall, slow-moving timber to see out the last 10-15 minutes of a game against Dublin.
This was particularly evident around the middle of the field.
Quote from: Jinxy on April 24, 2016, 11:36:34 PM
Kerry have way too much tall, slow-moving timber to see out the last 10-15 minutes of a game against Dublin.
This was particularly evident around the middle of the field.
What else can they do I suppose? That tall timber is still the core of their team. I'm sure if they had better young blood they would be in there. Not like Kerry to miss a trick. If they had alternatives they would be using them. O Mahoney and Marc still there for a reason. I dunno what to make of that Murphy lad though and his role this year. Looks lost at times and then comes up with some good stuff. I honestly think Kerry have milked the last out of the older lads and overachieved (with some help) in recent years.
Quote from: Jinxy on April 24, 2016, 11:36:34 PM
Kerry have way too much tall, slow-moving timber to see out the last 10-15 minutes of a game against Dublin.
This was particularly evident around the middle of the field.
Donaghy makes big Aido look mobile
Disappointing from a Cavan viewpoint. Tyrone had us well sussed out, Mc Kiernan very well marshalled and their sweeping in front of the full back line worked really well.
This wasn't the same Cavan side that played in the league though,i think we showed both Tyrone and the pitch a bit too much respect for a lot of the game. We've been pushing high on the kickouts all year yet there was little of that yesterday and a lot of our good play has been through getting Mc Kiernan isolated one on one on the wings with a bit of space but we couldn't create it yesterday. Peter Harte as ever was the orchestrator in chief for them particularly in the first half, hard not to appreciate what he does even when against your own side,he does everything effortlessly and rarely picks the wrong option. Make no mistakes about it Tyrone are a serious outfit and i'll be surprised now if they don't win Ulster.
As for the second game i don't know what people expected from Kerry but i was expecting them to lose and lose by quite a few scores. Fitzmaurice is no mug and he's not going to use up whatever masterplan he's concocting in April. They left 2 and 3 men in their backline at times yesterday and won't be doing that come summertime of that i'm sure.
Kerry still have Maher and O Donoghue to come back in and Johnny Buckley a decent option too and Tommy Walsh will surely come good at some stage too and Gooch showed glimpses of his genius yesterday whenever they got him the ball.
I give Kerry every chance of winning the big one this summer but it all depends on Fitzmaurices gameplan for when they inevitably meet the Dubs who despite being a very impressive outfit aren't the unbeatables some people seem to think. I had a right good punt on the Dubs winning it out last year as i couldn't see anyone laying a glove on them but i'll not be doing similar this season.
Gooch for player of the year and Kerry for the All Ireland with Tyrone winning Ulster is my early season predictions, i've been wrong before and i'll be wrong again but no harm sticking the neck out :).
Serious difference in the pace of the first and second games yesterday. Tyrone seemed to be able to hold Cavan at arms length without ever killing them off. This has happened throughout the league and I think that lack of ruthlessness will stand against them later in the year.
I think Tyrone can defend well enough to keep themselves in contention vs Kerry/Dublin/Mayo but I'm not convinced they will score enough - I hope I'm wrong. McAliskey was impressive yesterday and while Cavanagh's influence is waining, he is still good for 3 or 4 points a game. Dublin's full forward line of Brogan, Connolly and Mannion is on a different level.
Quote from: laceer on April 25, 2016, 09:23:06 AM
Serious difference in the pace of the first and second games yesterday. Tyrone seemed to be able to hold Cavan at arms length without ever killing them off. This has happened throughout the league and I think that lack of ruthlessness will stand against them later in the year.
I think Tyrone can defend well enough to keep themselves in contention vs Kerry/Dublin/Mayo but I'm not convinced they will score enough - I hope I'm wrong. McAliskey was impressive yesterday and while Cavanagh's influence is waining, he is still good for 3 or 4 points a game. Dublin's full forward line of Brogan, Connolly and Mannion is on a different level.
Unreal the difference, was like 2 different sports almost :o
Well done to Tyrone yesterday, minimum of fuss - move on now to bigger things! First target must be winning Ulster and establishing ourselves as the top team in the province again! You can't expect to win AI's if you aren't the best team in your province. If we can do that, I just have this feeling that our style is all wrong for Dublin and we may well be the team most likely to give them problems. Whether we can score enough to actually beat them (especially if we don't find a reliable free taker) is another matter.
Quote from: moysider on April 24, 2016, 11:55:02 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 24, 2016, 11:36:34 PM
Kerry have way too much tall, slow-moving timber to see out the last 10-15 minutes of a game against Dublin.
This was particularly evident around the middle of the field.
What else can they do I suppose? That tall timber is still the core of their team. I'm sure if they had better young blood they would be in there. Not like Kerry to miss a trick. If they had alternatives they would be using them. O Mahoney and Marc still there for a reason. I dunno what to make of that Murphy lad though and his role this year. Looks lost at times and then comes up with some good stuff. I honestly think Kerry have milked the last out of the older lads and overachieved (with some help) in recent years.
Yeah, it seems like robbing Peter to pay Paul to me.
I couldn't understand why Donaghy and Cooper took it in turns to basically be a one man FF line in the 2nd half.
This craic of hoofing the ball into Donaghy with 3 defenders around him and no support is junior B level stuff.
I think it would be worth trying David Moran at centre forward and giving him license to drift in to the square.
Kerry need to be much more tactically astute with their replacement strategy as well.
Fitzmaurice should be keeping some of his best attacking players in reserve for a big push in the last 20 minutes.
Sheehan, Donaghy & Cooper don't have the legs for 70 minutes against Dublin but you'd want them on the field with a full tank of petrol at the business end of the game.
Quote from: Jinxy on April 25, 2016, 10:53:21 AM
Quote from: moysider on April 24, 2016, 11:55:02 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 24, 2016, 11:36:34 PM
Kerry have way too much tall, slow-moving timber to see out the last 10-15 minutes of a game against Dublin.
This was particularly evident around the middle of the field.
What else can they do I suppose? That tall timber is still the core of their team. I'm sure if they had better young blood they would be in there. Not like Kerry to miss a trick. If they had alternatives they would be using them. O Mahoney and Marc still there for a reason. I dunno what to make of that Murphy lad though and his role this year. Looks lost at times and then comes up with some good stuff. I honestly think Kerry have milked the last out of the older lads and overachieved (with some help) in recent years.
Yeah, it seems like robbing Peter to pay Paul to me.
I couldn't understand why Donaghy and Cooper took it in turns to basically be a one man FF line in the 2nd half.
This craic of hoofing the ball into Donaghy with 3 defenders around him and no support is junior B level stuff.
I think it would be worth trying David Moran at centre forward and giving him license to drift in to the square.
Kerry need to be much more tactically astute with their replacement strategy as well.
Fitzmaurice should be keeping some of his best attacking players in reserve for a big push in the last 20 minutes.
Sheehan, Donaghy & Cooper don't have the legs for 70 minutes against Dublin but you'd want them on the field with a full tank of petrol at the business end of the game.
Kerry are not the only team to do that. Look at O'Shea's goal v Donegal on the link below. O'Shea had Magee & McHugh on him. But the next 4 players arriving were all Donegal players. Not a single Mayo player was getting up to help him. I can't understand serious teams playing like that.
http://gfycat.com/ifr/HeavyPastArcticwolf (http://gfycat.com/ifr/HeavyPastArcticwolf)
Quote from: muppet on April 25, 2016, 12:59:00 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 25, 2016, 10:53:21 AM
Quote from: moysider on April 24, 2016, 11:55:02 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 24, 2016, 11:36:34 PM
Kerry have way too much tall, slow-moving timber to see out the last 10-15 minutes of a game against Dublin.
This was particularly evident around the middle of the field.
What else can they do I suppose? That tall timber is still the core of their team. I'm sure if they had better young blood they would be in there. Not like Kerry to miss a trick. If they had alternatives they would be using them. O Mahoney and Marc still there for a reason. I dunno what to make of that Murphy lad though and his role this year. Looks lost at times and then comes up with some good stuff. I honestly think Kerry have milked the last out of the older lads and overachieved (with some help) in recent years.
Yeah, it seems like robbing Peter to pay Paul to me.
I couldn't understand why Donaghy and Cooper took it in turns to basically be a one man FF line in the 2nd half.
This craic of hoofing the ball into Donaghy with 3 defenders around him and no support is junior B level stuff.
I think it would be worth trying David Moran at centre forward and giving him license to drift in to the square.
Kerry need to be much more tactically astute with their replacement strategy as well.
Fitzmaurice should be keeping some of his best attacking players in reserve for a big push in the last 20 minutes.
Sheehan, Donaghy & Cooper don't have the legs for 70 minutes against Dublin but you'd want them on the field with a full tank of petrol at the business end of the game.
Kerry are not the only team to do that. Look at O'Shea's goal v Donegal on the link below. O'Shea had Magee & McHugh on him. But the next 4 players arriving were all Donegal players. Not a single Mayo player was getting up to help him. I can't understand serious teams playing like that.
http://gfycat.com/ifr/HeavyPastArcticwolf (http://gfycat.com/ifr/HeavyPastArcticwolf)
But he scored a goal :)
Seriously though, the long ball is a great 'mixer', but if it's your only tactic you are in trouble. And when you do use it, you have to get men around the target man, and you also have to put it in from 40-45 yards out, ideally diagonally. Trying to hump it 60 yards in the air is pointless because most of the time the big man is coming out to the 20m line to collect it. A diagonal 45 metre, into a big man on the edge of the square, with corner forwards or wing forwards breaking at him is a very dangerous ball, used sparingly.
Quote from: Jinxy on April 25, 2016, 10:53:21 AM
Quote from: moysider on April 24, 2016, 11:55:02 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 24, 2016, 11:36:34 PM
Kerry have way too much tall, slow-moving timber to see out the last 10-15 minutes of a game against Dublin.
This was particularly evident around the middle of the field.
What else can they do I suppose? That tall timber is still the core of their team. I'm sure if they had better young blood they would be in there. Not like Kerry to miss a trick. If they had alternatives they would be using them. O Mahoney and Marc still there for a reason. I dunno what to make of that Murphy lad though and his role this year. Looks lost at times and then comes up with some good stuff. I honestly think Kerry have milked the last out of the older lads and overachieved (with some help) in recent years.
Yeah, it seems like robbing Peter to pay Paul to me.
I couldn't understand why Donaghy and Cooper took it in turns to basically be a one man FF line in the 2nd half.
This craic of hoofing the ball into Donaghy with 3 defenders around him and no support is junior B level stuff.
I think it would be worth trying David Moran at centre forward and giving him license to drift in to the square.
Kerry need to be much more tactically astute with their replacement strategy as well.
Fitzmaurice should be keeping some of his best attacking players in reserve for a big push in the last 20 minutes.
Sheehan, Donaghy & Cooper don't have the legs for 70 minutes against Dublin but you'd want them on the field with a full tank of petrol at the business end of the game.
Murphy doesn't have the physicality to play as a marker against the Dublin forwards and they do need some pace around the middle of the field so I can understand that one.
Their defence is a big issue for them, both Marc O'Se and O'Mahony are well past their best and are still key cogs there for Kerry. Crowley is a very good player but is a liability to see the line with the antics he gets up to. Apart from that, their defence is very average.
I'd argue that an average-sized player who is good in the air is actually a much more effective target man.
Look at the amount of ball Brogan wins overhead.
A big, tall lad standing around the square is a magnet for defenders.
Brogan always seems to be one on one when a high ball comes in to him and he wins it more often than not.
Even if he just breaks it, he's agile enough to go after it himself without needing support.
The thing about a player like Donaghy is that unless he catches it, or breaks it right on top of himself, he'll be swarmed and the chance to shoot or lay it off is gone.
If Kerry had Geaney fit, he'd be much more effective in this role.
BUT, you still need to have at least two men in your FF line for the tactic to work.
Otherwise, it's blatantly obvious to everyone where the ball is going.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 25, 2016, 01:03:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 25, 2016, 12:59:00 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 25, 2016, 10:53:21 AM
Quote from: moysider on April 24, 2016, 11:55:02 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 24, 2016, 11:36:34 PM
Kerry have way too much tall, slow-moving timber to see out the last 10-15 minutes of a game against Dublin.
This was particularly evident around the middle of the field.
What else can they do I suppose? That tall timber is still the core of their team. I'm sure if they had better young blood they would be in there. Not like Kerry to miss a trick. If they had alternatives they would be using them. O Mahoney and Marc still there for a reason. I dunno what to make of that Murphy lad though and his role this year. Looks lost at times and then comes up with some good stuff. I honestly think Kerry have milked the last out of the older lads and overachieved (with some help) in recent years.
Yeah, it seems like robbing Peter to pay Paul to me.
I couldn't understand why Donaghy and Cooper took it in turns to basically be a one man FF line in the 2nd half.
This craic of hoofing the ball into Donaghy with 3 defenders around him and no support is junior B level stuff.
I think it would be worth trying David Moran at centre forward and giving him license to drift in to the square.
Kerry need to be much more tactically astute with their replacement strategy as well.
Fitzmaurice should be keeping some of his best attacking players in reserve for a big push in the last 20 minutes.
Sheehan, Donaghy & Cooper don't have the legs for 70 minutes against Dublin but you'd want them on the field with a full tank of petrol at the business end of the game.
Kerry are not the only team to do that. Look at O'Shea's goal v Donegal on the link below. O'Shea had Magee & McHugh on him. But the next 4 players arriving were all Donegal players. Not a single Mayo player was getting up to help him. I can't understand serious teams playing like that.
http://gfycat.com/ifr/HeavyPastArcticwolf (http://gfycat.com/ifr/HeavyPastArcticwolf)
But he scored a goal :)
Seriously though, the long ball is a great 'mixer', but if it's your only tactic you are in trouble. And when you do use it, you have to get men around the target man, and you also have to put it in from 40-45 yards out, ideally diagonally. Trying to hump it 60 yards in the air is pointless because most of the time the big man is coming out to the 20m line to collect it. A diagonal 45 metre, into a big man on the edge of the square, with corner forwards or wing forwards breaking at him is a very dangerous ball, used sparingly.
He did but the Dubs just had another extra man back and the tactic failed miserably.
Having pace in the HF line is another factor.
It's not enough to have a big engine and run all day, you need to get up and down the pitch at speed.
Now, the way around this is to have your wing forwards dropping back with the play and effectively swapping positions with the wing backs if a counter attack is on.
It makes sense given that the wing backs are facing the opposition goals and can break out much more quickly plus they tend to be faster than the wing forwards nowadays.
But, your wing backs need to be proper ball players.
Look at the havoc Johnny Cooper & Philly McMahon cause when they move up the field, and they're technically in the FB line!
Without Tomás O'Sé, Kerry do not have a genuine attacking threat anywhere in their back line.
By that I mean a player who can move into the opposition half at speed, kick an accurate pass if somebody comes out to cover him, or kick his own score if nobody comes out to cover him.
To be honest, I think if you swapped the forwards with the backs on that Dublin team, they'd still beat most teams in the country.
Lads where is Tommy Walsh? Is he a shadow of his former self or is he injured or what is the story there? Thought kerry looked extremely limited in the forwards yesterday at times and if Walsh is anything like the player he was in 2008 then that would be an unbelievable option to have
Whatever happened to his younger brother as well?
Quote from: bigpackiechestout on April 25, 2016, 01:58:53 PM
Lads where is Tommy Walsh? Is he a shadow of his former self or is he injured or what is the story there? Thought kerry looked extremely limited in the forwards yesterday at times and if Walsh is anything like the player he was in 2008 then that would be an unbelievable option to have
Tommy hasn't been the same since tearing his hamstring completely off the bone in June 2013. I don't think he did enough in the earlier league games to merit a place on the team.
Maybe he's on another fitness schedule, but atm he's still in "the shadow of his former self" category.
Quote from: Jinxy on April 25, 2016, 02:00:52 PM
Whatever happened to his younger brother as well?
Barry John's his name isn't it? I had someone try tell me yesterday Tommy Walsh never had a brother play for Kerry and that i must've been thinking of Barry John Keane. I'm not going mad woohoo ;D
Quote from: Jinxy on April 25, 2016, 01:43:23 PM
Having pace in the HF line is another factor.
It's not enough to have a big engine and run all day, you need to get up and down the pitch at speed.
Now, the way around this is to have your wing forwards dropping back with the play and effectively swapping positions with the wing backs if a counter attack is on.
It makes sense given that the wing backs are facing the opposition goals and can break out much more quickly plus they tend to be faster than the wing forwards nowadays.
But, your wing backs need to be proper ball players.
Look at the havoc Johnny Cooper & Philly McMahon cause when they move up the field, and they're technically in the FB line!
Without Tomás O'Sé, Kerry do not have a genuine attacking threat anywhere in their back line.
By that I mean a player who can move into the opposition half at speed, kick an accurate pass if somebody comes out to cover him, or kick his own score if nobody comes out to cover him.
To be honest, I think if you swapped the forwards with the backs on that Dublin team, they'd still beat most teams in the country.
And to think they are missing arguably their 2 best defenders in McCaffrey & O Carroll...scary!!
Phillip Jordan's Irish news article about the 2 games on Sunday.
I too was surprised how open the game was on Sunday and noticed several times we were more worried about getting a sweeper back to mark space rather than pressurising the man on the ball.
Loads of times I noticed Justy and CC running back towards their goal not even watching the play and I thought how the game has changed over the past 5-10 years.
IF YOU were looking to see lots of scores from play in last Sunday's National League finals, you would have put your money on Dublin and Kerry being the providers.
I certainly didn't expect to see Cavan and Tyrone score 1-27 from play. The first-half especially was great viewing and, hopefully, was a sign of things to come during the summer. Victory for Tyrone was important leading into the Championship opener against Derry.
Some of momentum built up during the league had been lost in the final two games against Armagh and Fermanagh, so it was vital to finish the campaign on a positive. As a Tyrone man, a major positive is the continued integration of young players into the team.
Eight of the 21 players used against Cavan have less than two years of experience at senior inter-county level, with six of those part of the U21 All-Ireland winning team last year. One of those, Rory Brennan, has surely nailed down a Championship place. He is playing with far more confidence in his second season and, along with Tiernan McCann, provides real pace to the Tyrone half-back line.
The harder summer surfaces will suit them along with the likes of Peter Harte and Mattie Donnelly, who are key players in Tyrone's running game. Defensively, Mickey Harte won't have been happy with his team in the opening half. They played very deep, allowing Cavan to carry possession and work scoring opportunities closer to goal. The Cavan full-forward line were unable to get into the game, but the better teams will exploit the space further out the field, like Kerry did in last year's All-Ireland semi-final.
The main question mark over Tyrone is whether they can get enough scores to beat the best teams. Connor McAliskey and Ronan O'Neill contributed 1-7 from play between them, yet both were withdrawn before the end. It shows how much the Tyrone system demands of the inside-forwards away from their attacking play, with everyone taking their turn covering back in defence.
The system probably suits Tyrone in that there is little separating the options Mickey Harte has in the full-forward line. McAliskey, O'Neill, Lee Brennan and Darren McCurry are all potential starters. Mickey will hope to get at least one of them on form on any given day to provide the scoring burst needed.
The experience of playing in Croke Park will have been a great experience for this Cavan team. They pushed the team that are fourth favourites for the All-Ireland all the way. After Ronan O'Neill's goal, I expected Tyrone to pull away, but Cavan refused to fold.
Cavan's defensive set-up has been their strength for the last few years and they have definitely improved in their transition to attack. They break out with much more pace, giving them more opportunities to score.
Tyrone are one of the most organised teams, defensively, in the country. Cavan still managed to score 12 points from play and they won't come up against many teams who are as disciplined in the tackle as Tyrone. They got little return from their three big names in attack - Givney, McKiernan (with the exception of his two points) and Johnston were nullified by the Tyrone defence.
Last Sunday didn't provide any major clues as to whether Tyrone can beat the best teams in the country. The size of the challenge they face to be All-Ireland contenders was clear to see watching the Division One final between Dublin and Kerry.
Everything about the game was a step up from the curtain-raiser. There was better ball retention, greater intensity in the tackle and the overall pace of the game was on another level. The Dublin and Kerry game felt like it meant more than most league finals.
There was an edge to the game that you don't normally get at this stage of the year. I get the feeling both teams think the other is the one big obstacle standing in their way of lifting Sam Maguire in September. If they meet later in the year, the rivalry that has been built up between the teams will test the discipline of both.
Dublin's winning margin of 11 points doesn't tell the story of the gap between the two teams. Kerry were right in the game until Paul Flynn's goal. What it did highlight was the major advantage Dublin have over the rest of the teams in the country - strength in depth.
Teams like Kerry, Mayo and Tyrone can conceivably stay with the Dubs for 50 to 60 minutes, but they don't have attacking options of the calibre of Kevin McManamon and Cormac Costello to spring from the bench. Dublin consistently overpower teams in the last 15 minutes due to the sheer quality of their bench.
Aidan O'Mahony's sending-off ended any chances of Kerry winning, as beating them with a man down is virtually impossible. In order to successfully defend an All-Ireland title, you need your best players to retain their form.
However, more importantly, you need some players to take a step forward. Ciaran Kilkenny has been a stand-out performer during the league for Dublin and he was again superb against Kerry. One concern is the form of Diarmuid Connolly, who hasn't got back to the form of 2014, when he was arguably the best player in the country.
The Kerry forward line, which has looked unstoppable over the last few games, struggled for scores. We don't often see a Kerry team being naïve in attack, but their insistence on playing high, hopeful ball to Kieran Donaghy was hard to believe.
I expect these two to meet again during the Championship and Kerry will be much closer when the day arrives. Eamonn Fitzmaurice knows the size of the task in front of him to topple Dublin. He won't want to give away any plans he has in a league final.
Kerry are known for their cuteness and reading too much into this result would be foolish.