GAA Double Standards
I have been watching with interest the developments in London in relation to the decision to allow the Irish Guards to form a GAA team; a decision which I assume was ratified by GAA Central Council in Croke Park. To those unfamiliar with British Military history, The Irish Guards regiment was formed on 1 April 1900 by order of Queen Victoria to commemorate the Irishmen who fought in the Second Boer War for the British Empire. It is in short a regiment of the British Army. Of course since the removal of 'Rule 21' in 2001 this is perfectly acceptable and as a democratic decision it is therefore one that all GAA members will have to stomach. However do those who sanctioned this see no irony in allowing the Irish Guards to take part in Gaelic games whilst at the same time not affording all Irish citizens the same right? I would like to draw the readers' attention to the irony I speak of. This is the fact that the GAA have sanctioned the playing of Gaelic games by members of the British Army but have outlawed the playing of the same games by Irish men over the age of 40. The GAA have for some years now refused to be associated with the Gaelic Masters competition which sees players aged 40 and over represent their county in an all-Ireland competition. A decision was made at congress to remove the masters from the GAA's official list of competitions.
After being cast aside by the GAA a number of dedicated master's players set up the Gaelic Master's Association to facilitate the playing of master's football at inter-county level. Master's football is well and truly alive but as a separate organisation not affiliated to the GAA. 2015 saw Galway win the All Ireland Gaelic Master's Cup and Tyrone win the Master's Shield. Therefore what we have now are players who have played club and county football for their whole lives paying their own insurance to play Gaelic football. The GAA therefore have effectively banned men who are currently players, officers of their clubs, committee members, team managers, coaches and referees. These men, the lifeblood of the organisation, instead of being cherished and lauded are being shown nothing but contempt.
In my own County of Tyrone, players have been treated with derision by some members of the County Board. Two years ago a decision was made at executive level not to allow pictures or reports from Master's games to be posted on the Tyrone GAA official website. Material already on the site was removed before Tyrone appeared in the 2013 All Ireland Master's Final. One officer of the board laughed at a player and pointed out to him that he did not represent the county. Another board officer advised one Tyrone club not to allow a master's game to be played on their ground. Similar disrespect has been shown to many of the county teams including Mayo, Galway, Cavan and Monaghan. What the GAA has in effect done here is to exercise double standards in the interest of good politics. Those representing the Irish Guards stated in a recent interview in The Irish News that they were keen to take part in a 'strong, physical game that would suit them'. Gaelic football is indeed the type of game they speak of and I wish them luck in becoming exponents of these very necessary qualities of the game. However, again I am at a loss because one of the reasons given by the GAA to justify cutting its ties with master's football was the sometimes 'physical' nature of the games. I hope the Irish Guards Commander in Chief, British Royal, the Duke of Cambridge(Prince William), is not as shocked as our GAA 'commanders' by the 'strong physical game' he will surely be exposed to at some future date. It will also be interesting to see if any of the Irish Guards who line out are over 40.
What I appeal for from the GAA is not special treatment for master's players but the same equality that is extended to servants of the crown. The GAA in London has called this a step forward, but to me it represents many of the 'steps forward' in GAA history whereby the ordinary people are ignored and the more powerful indulged in the name of political expediency. Surely it is time for the GAA to realise it has made a grave error with the masters', to apologise for this error and to take steps to bring the masters' competition back into the official GAA calendar.
Gavan Mc Elroy
Masters' Player
Carrickmore
County Tyrone.
What has this got to do with the Irish Guards? There are new clubs popping up all over the world every year so im not sure why you have to highlight The Irish Guard.
1) This has got nothing to do with the Irish Guards at all
2) wasn't the reason the 'masters' football was scrapped to do with insurance/health&safety?
Quote from: westbound on September 21, 2015, 03:13:06 PM
1) This has got nothing to do with the Irish Guards at all
2) wasn't the reason the 'masters' football was scrapped to do with insurance/health&safety?
Thats what I thought!
He has a valid point - the GAA should be looking after and running Masters football and hurling.
Yeah, it's a tenuous link, but I think what he's saying is that as well as looking to bring in these lads who want to play our games, they should be facilitating people who are already members and want to play our games.
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 21, 2015, 04:02:27 PM
He has a valid point - the GAA should be looking after and running Masters football and hurling.
+1
And not accepting professional killers into the association either.
Carrickmore "masters" team and the "Guards" to play in an exhibition match next year.
High ranking official ( insert your one choice ) to referee.
Quote from: Keyboard Warrior on September 21, 2015, 04:11:16 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 21, 2015, 04:02:27 PM
He has a valid point - the GAA should be looking after and running Masters football and hurling.
+1
And not accepting professional killers into the association either.
Your username suits you
Surely any man over 40 from Carrickmore,worth his salt,is an ex serviceman,if you know what I mean
If there is one thing the GAA do well it's forget about the people who've played the games and spent their time furthering the sport. The Teddy McCarthy incident is evidence of that - "Teddy who?"
Headline making announcements such as fast-tracking the SAS GAC seem to be more in line with their aims.
I'm sure lads would sign waivers if health/safety is a concern. I'm sure the likes of Beardsley/Rush/Barnes did the same when playing for the Liverpool masters soccer teams. Why should lads over 40 who love the game not have an opportunity to play under the GAA banner? I was hoping that I'd still have a shot at an inter-county career.
Thanks for all the replies.
my replies to the responses to date
Orangeman - my issue is the ease with which the Irish Guards were allowed to start a club and the irony of the fact that the masters have not been treated equally. I do have personal issues with the British Army having more rights within the GAA than I do but they are not part of this argument.
Westbound - you are correct in saying that the masters' was thrown aside do to insurance and health and safety. This is another point. The GAA could see no opportunity to make money from the masters' so therefore cast it aside. There were some claims against the GAA insurance but they were minimal compared to claims coming through the clubs. I have played Masters for 5 years now and have never seen any serious injury or bust up in that time. I played senior football for a considerable length and risks to health and safety were much higher in those games.
thanks to foxcommander, AZOffaly and magpie Seanie for your support on this issue. I had read about the issue raised by foxcommander in relation to Teddy Mc Carthy and was disgusted ! Its another case of where the GAA can loose sight of the core values it was set up to promote.
Keyboardwarrior Your point is valid but its another case of were grassroots members views were ignored in the changing of rule 21
Quote from: falay on September 22, 2015, 09:08:17 AM
Westbound - you are correct in saying that the masters' was thrown aside do to insurance and health and safety. This is another point. The GAA could see no opportunity to make money from the masters' so therefore cast it aside. There were some claims against the GAA insurance but they were minimal compared to claims coming through the clubs. I have played Masters for 5 years now and have never seen any serious injury or bust up in that time. I played senior football for a considerable length and risks to health and safety were much higher in those games.
I'm no expert on insurance (or health & safety for that matter!), but I think it seems logical to me that if you have 30 lads over 40 playing a game and 30 other lads aged 20-35ish playing a game, the lads over 40 are going to have more injuries.
And from an insurers point of view the lads over 40 would be much more likely to suffer hear attacks etc. (i..e the more expensive payouts).
I'm not against an over 40's competition (in fact I'd like to play in one!) but health and safety (and fellas not being out of pocket for medical bills) is most important.
Falay
Whatever argument you had about the lack of recognition for the 'Masters' game is totally undermined by your attempt to link it to the Irish Guards. It is like comparing apple and oranges.
Why did you not explain the reasons behind why the GAA won't recognise the 'Masters'?
Then take each of their points for not recognising and counter argue them.
By bringing the Irish Guards into you have simply muddied the waters of your own argument.
I would ask the OP to change the misleading title of this thread. You have a point to debate but in trying to link it to another decision, you're making a hames of it.
Quote from: westbound on September 22, 2015, 10:08:02 AM
Quote from: falay on September 22, 2015, 09:08:17 AM
Westbound - you are correct in saying that the masters' was thrown aside do to insurance and health and safety. This is another point. The GAA could see no opportunity to make money from the masters' so therefore cast it aside. There were some claims against the GAA insurance but they were minimal compared to claims coming through the clubs. I have played Masters for 5 years now and have never seen any serious injury or bust up in that time. I played senior football for a considerable length and risks to health and safety were much higher in those games.
I'm no expert on insurance (or health & safety for that matter!), but I think it seems logical to me that if you have 30 lads over 40 playing a game and 30 other lads aged 20-35ish playing a game, the lads over 40 are going to have more injuries.
And from an insurers point of view the lads over 40 would be much more likely to suffer hear attacks etc. (i..e the more expensive payouts).
I'm not against an over 40's competition (in fact I'd like to play in one!) but health and safety (and fellas not being out of pocket for medical bills) is most important.
I think it is all relative really. The pace that an over 40s game is played at is significantly less than a game of 25 year olds. It is completely illogical that the GAA won't back it and so long as the players pay their own insurance then there is no come back to the GAA.
Quote from: NAG1 on September 22, 2015, 10:15:46 AM
Falay
Whatever argument you had about the lack of recognition for the 'Masters' game is totally undermined by your attempt to link it to the Irish Guards. It is like comparing apple and oranges.
Why did you not explain the reasons behind why the GAA won't recognise the 'Masters'?
Then take each of their points for not recognising and counter argue them.
By bringing the Irish Guards into you have simply muddied the waters of your own argument.
+1.
What clubs the London County Board take under their wing is totally irrelevant to the Over 40s argument.
Try and leave yer politics at the door. ;)
Quote from: Rossfan on September 22, 2015, 10:58:24 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on September 22, 2015, 10:15:46 AM
Falay
Whatever argument you had about the lack of recognition for the 'Masters' game is totally undermined by your attempt to link it to the Irish Guards. It is like comparing apple and oranges.
Why did you not explain the reasons behind why the GAA won't recognise the 'Masters'?
Then take each of their points for not recognising and counter argue them.
By bringing the Irish Guards into you have simply muddied the waters of your own argument.
+1.
What clubs the London County Board take under their wing is totally irrelevant to the Over 40s argument.
Try and leave yer politics at the door. ;)
He's from Carrickmore, that would be impossible
Quote from: Rossfan on September 22, 2015, 10:58:24 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on September 22, 2015, 10:15:46 AM
Falay
Whatever argument you had about the lack of recognition for the 'Masters' game is totally undermined by your attempt to link it to the Irish Guards. It is like comparing apple and oranges.
Why did you not explain the reasons behind why the GAA won't recognise the 'Masters'?
Then take each of their points for not recognising and counter argue them.
By bringing the Irish Guards into you have simply muddied the waters of your own argument.
+1.
What clubs the London County Board take under their wing is totally irrelevant to the Over 40s argument.
Try and leave yer politics at the door. ;)
+1.
This should be in a 'Masters Thread'. Nothing to do with the British Army team.
I agree that the over 40s should be sanctioned as part of the GAA and it's a pure joke that the GAA won't back this. I also understand the underlying uneasiness with the Irish Guards joining the GAA.
However, I just don't really get what one thing has to do with the other. It's not as if the over 40s were shunted out to make room for the Irish Guards. There's an important point to be made here and unfortunately it's got lost in the needless comparison.
Again thanks for all the replies. I was not expecting agreement on this but lively debate to highlight the issue which is good to see.
I can understand the need to keep politics out of sport but my point is that because it was deemed politically correct at this time the GAA has no problem sanctioning the Irish Guards team whilst at the same time not allowing the masters' the same right. I have raised the issue because it is topical and because it is the most current snub against those who have failed to recognise the masters within the GAA. The fact that it is a regiment of the British Army is of course relevant and anyone who thinks that the GAA and politics have walked two different paths in this country are fooling themselves. The key point I am making is the glaringly obvious double standards. Also I believe that within the GAA views on the issue of The Irish Guards will very much depend on which side of the border the person grew up on.
I see the link falay, but it's tenuous at best. The rights and wrongs of the Irish Guards being allowed join the GAA are not analogous with the Masters being discontinued, in my view. As others have said, many new clubs spring up and affiliate each year, and that fact does not explain the masters situation either. As Benny said, it's not as if the Masters is being discontinued to allow the Guards to join.
It would be great if "the GAA" (which after all, is you as much as it's anyone else) would sanction and support Masters football, but I'd have to agree with NAG1 in that you'd be much better served addressing and dispelling the reasons behind 'their' decision not to. Linking your argument to a current (and potentially divisive) current talking point will of course help your argument get noticed, read but also potentially quickly discarded or dismissed unless the link between the two is genuine.
I'd have to wish you all the best with your campaign though, social & informal football of all categories is something that it'd be great to see a growth in
Irish Guards = British Army
Please get the name correct
Quote from: theticklemister on September 23, 2015, 06:48:42 PM
Irish Guards = British Army
Please get the name correct
It isn't the whole British Army, it is one regiment. If the Paras want to play they'll have to enter their own team.
seeing as the troubles are all over and we're all friends now could anyone object to the IRA entering teams in the various county championship where they no longer Exist?
Quote from: rosnarun on September 24, 2015, 09:57:10 AM
seeing as the troubles are all over and we're all friends now could anyone object to the IRA entering teams in the various county championship where they no longer Exist?
They'd have to play all their games at home, of course.
(They don't go away, you know.)
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 23, 2015, 10:41:33 AM
I see the link falay, but it's tenuous at best. The rights and wrongs of the Irish Guards being allowed join the GAA are not analogous with the Masters being discontinued, in my view. As others have said, many new clubs spring up and affiliate each year, and that fact does not explain the masters situation either. As Benny said, it's not as if the Masters is being discontinued to allow the Guards to join.
I agree. I understand the frustration some people feel regarding the overturning of Rule 21 but I think it's another argument. My think on that would be I'd love to get a crack at them on the pitch!!!
The main point here is the Masters though. Can anything be done to solve the issues? I'd certainly be keen for it to be resolved. Am still playing a bit and turn 40 next year so self interest ahoy!
I would imagine the Irish Guards didn't have the same insurance issues. Sounds to me like your anger is being directed to the wrong place. Work with the insurance companies and get it sorted out. No need to air your dirty laundry in public like this.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 24, 2015, 11:52:41 PM
I would imagine the Irish Guards didn't have the same insurance issues. Sounds to me like your anger is being directed to the wrong place. Work with the insurance companies and get it sorted out. No need to air your dirty laundry in public like this.
The Irish Guards clearly increase the likelihood of some sort of political stuff. There are two unrelated issues being conflated here, but there the OP has no "dirty laundry", it is is a legitimate question.
Quote from: Keyboard Warrior on September 21, 2015, 04:11:16 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 21, 2015, 04:02:27 PM
He has a valid point - the GAA should be looking after and running Masters football and hurling.
+1
And not accepting professional killers into the association either.
as opposed to amateur killers with their own political wing ?
Why don't you go to the GAA and say you will sort out your own insurance if they officially recognise you? It's not a bad idea either to have private health insurance if you're over 40. I realise there will be some people who can't afford private insurance but there are ways and means around that. See if they can contribute half and run fundraisers to subsidise the other half. So not only can they participate in the masters but they also have private health insurance for half the cost.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on September 25, 2015, 09:52:03 AM
Why don't you go to the GAA and say you will sort out your own insurance if they officially recognise you? It's not a bad idea either to have private health insurance if you're over 40. I realise there will be some people who can't afford private insurance but there are ways and means around that. See if they can contribute half and run fundraisers to subsidise the other half. So not only can they participate in the masters but they also have private health insurance for half the cost.
That seems to be the issue really that players have to sort out their own insurance. I played a couple of games with our Over 35s at the beginning of the year and was very close to snapping the cruciate again. It cost me over £400 between scans and physio work.
I think there will be a problem with lads like myself who have been riddled with injury towards the end of their career but think the speed and standard of Masters football mean we have less of a chance of getting injured when really there's a fair chance we will because it's the GAA and we're all competitive and f**k and don't want to give an inch to anybody!!!
Aside from the insurance issue the GAA should definitely be looking into and supporting something that can keep people involved after their playing days are over!!
Quote from: screenexile on September 25, 2015, 11:10:29 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on September 25, 2015, 09:52:03 AM
Why don't you go to the GAA and say you will sort out your own insurance if they officially recognise you? It's not a bad idea either to have private health insurance if you're over 40. I realise there will be some people who can't afford private insurance but there are ways and means around that. See if they can contribute half and run fundraisers to subsidise the other half. So not only can they participate in the masters but they also have private health insurance for half the cost.
That seems to be the issue really that players have to sort out their own insurance. I played a couple of games with our Over 35s at the beginning of the year and was very close to snapping the cruciate again. It cost me over £400 between scans and physio work.
I think there will be a problem with lads like myself who have been riddled with injury towards the end of their career but think the speed and standard of Masters football mean we have less of a chance of getting injured when really there's a fair chance we will because it's the GAA and we're all competitive and f**k and don't want to give an inch to anybody!!!
Aside from the insurance issue the GAA should definitely be looking into and supporting something that can keep people involved after their playing days are over!!
Does handball not have Masters competitions?
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2015, 03:20:26 AM
Quote from: Keyboard Warrior on September 21, 2015, 04:11:16 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 21, 2015, 04:02:27 PM
He has a valid point - the GAA should be looking after and running Masters football and hurling.
+1
And not accepting professional killers into the association either.
as opposed to amateur killers with their own political wing ?
Indeed.
Quote from: armaghniac on September 25, 2015, 12:02:18 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 24, 2015, 11:52:41 PM
I would imagine the Irish Guards didn't have the same insurance issues. Sounds to me like your anger is being directed to the wrong place. Work with the insurance companies and get it sorted out. No need to air your dirty laundry in public like this.
The Irish Guards clearly increase the likelihood of some sort of political stuff. There are two unrelated issues being conflated here, but there the OP has no "dirty laundry", it is is a legitimate question.
It's an internal matter for our organization. Going public with this sort of thing is the wrong way to go about it. Work with the higher-ups, address their concerns, work the problem, and get it straightened out.
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2015, 03:20:26 AM
Quote from: Keyboard Warrior on September 21, 2015, 04:11:16 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 21, 2015, 04:02:27 PM
He has a valid point - the GAA should be looking after and running Masters football and hurling.
+1
And not accepting professional killers into the association either.
as opposed to amateur killers with their own political wing ?
Which amateur killer organisation has applied to have a team in the GAA?