The Palestine thread

[whitey]

Whitey care to comment on Likud Charter. Find it hard to believe Mike Sheedy isn't around with Whitey's anti Muslim agenda.

Sorry about that PHP...I have to do some work to pay the bills!

Based on my dialogue with GHD a couple of weeks ago I went out and bought a book in order to educate myself better-I am a history and politics Junkie. (I already referenced this book many pages back in the thread)

http://www.amazon.com/Goliath-Life-Loathing-Greater-Israel/dp/1568586345.

I am learning tons of stuff I never knew, and my opinion of Israel has changed dramatically.

(I think the author may have since been barred from entering Israel)

That being said, I still think (1) Israel has a right to exist and (2) they have a right to protect themselves


What is extremely disappointing is many posters on here have this over simplified view of the conflict

Israel-BAD

Palestinians/Hamas-GOOD

Hamas are equally as big a pack of cvnts as the Israelis, and God help us all if they ever get any significant military capacity. Spend some time and read up on the underlying beliefs of these Jihadist groups such as Isis, the Taliban, Al Quada  and Hamas.

I already referenced my wife's 2 nephews who served in Afghanistan and Iraq and how their first person experiences have helped form my opinions of Islamic Jihadists.

That being said, when I'm in Ireland next week, I will be spending an evening with an old neighbor of mine, who, without going into too much detail, has a much different insight than my 2 nephews, given his high profile work with the UN on the region. I reached out to him already to see if he would pen a piece for me to share here, but given his high profile he couldn't do it

[whitey]

You are mistaking outrage at genocide for support of Hamas.

So why were the attendees at GHDs Dungannon event waving Hamas flags around then

http://static1.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/5300-0/photos/1406068833-peoples-protest-in-solidarity-with-palestine-in-dungannon_5340040.jpg

(I don't know how to paste pictures, but google the event if you think I'm making it up)

[macdanger2]

LOL. You're having me on right. So they will somehow obliterate Israel (their words not mine) but not the Jews.  It's in their CHARTER.

This belief that "Israel = All Jews" seems to be a common misconception - NOT ALL JEWS ARE ISRAELI!! Israel is a state, Judaism is a religion / race. One does not equate the other. Anti-Israeli does not equal anti-Jewish. Wanting an end to Israel as it currently exists does not equal wanting Jewish people wiped off the planet.

Just saw your post re Islamic Jihadists whitey and personally I draw a definite line between Hamas (who are fighting in their own country against a superior oppressive military force with a view to "freeing" their people) and other groups who may be categorised in the same manner but who operate in different theatres

[give her dixie]

You are mistaking outrage at genocide for support of Hamas.

So why were the attendees at GHDs Dungannon event waving Hamas flags around then

http://static1.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/5300-0/photos/1406068833-peoples-protest-in-solidarity-with-palestine-in-dungannon_5340040.jpg

(I don't know how to paste pictures, but google the event if you think I'm making it up)

I'll give you a million pounds if you can show me the Hamas flag in the picture

[whitey]

You are mistaking outrage at genocide for support of Hamas.

So why were the attendees at GHDs Dungannon event waving Hamas flags around then

http://static1.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/5300-0/photos/1406068833-peoples-protest-in-solidarity-with-palestine-in-dungannon_5340040.jpg

(I don't know how to paste pictures, but google the event if you think I'm making it up)

I'll give you a million pounds if you can show me the Hamas flag in the picture

My apologies...It's a Hezbollah flag not a Hamas flag....

Here's the guys in Dublin with the Hamas flag

http://markhumphrys.com/Bitmaps/free.gaza.2.lores.jpg

[give her dixie]

Never ask me about peace again

Asmaa al-Ghoul  August 4, 2014

Tears flowed until my body ran dry of them when I received a telephone call on Aug. 3, informing me that my family had been targeted by two F-16 missiles in the city of Rafah. Such was the fate of our family in a war that still continues, with every family in the Gaza Strip receiving its share of sorrow and pain.

My father's brother, Ismail al-Ghoul, 60, was not a member of Hamas. His wife, Khadra, 62, was not a militant of Hamas. Their sons, Wael, 35, and Mohammed, 32, were not combatants for Hamas. Their daughters, Hanadi, 28, and Asmaa, 22, were not operatives for Hamas, nor were my cousin Wael's children, Ismail, 11, Malak, 5, and baby Mustafa, only 24 days old, members of Islamic Jihad, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine or Fatah. Yet, they all died in the Israeli shelling that targeted their home at 6:20 a.m. on Sunday morning.

Their house was located in the Yibna neighborhood of the Rafah refugee camp. It was one story with a roof made of thin asbestos that did not require two F-16 missiles to destroy. Would someone please inform Israel that refugee camp houses can be destroyed, and their occupants killed, with only a small bomb, and that it needn't spend billions to blow them into oblivion?

If it is Hamas that you hate, let me tell you that the people you are killing have nothing to do with Hamas. They are women, children, men and senior citizens whose only concern was for the war to end, so they can return to their lives and daily routines. But let me assure you that you have now created thousands — no, millions — of Hamas loyalists, for we all become Hamas if Hamas, to you, is women, children and innocent families. If Hamas, in your eyes, is ordinary civilians and families, then I am Hamas, they are Hamas and we are all Hamas.

Throughout the war, we thought that the worst had passed, that this was the pivotal moment when matters would improve, that they would stop there. Yet, that real moment of pain, of extreme fear, was always followed by something even worse.

Now I understood why the photographs of corpses were so important, not only for international public opinion, but for us, the families, in search for an opportunity to bid farewell to our loved ones, so treacherously killed. What were they doing in those last moments? What did they look like after their death?

I discovered the photos of my dead relatives on social networking sites. The bodies of my cousin's children were stored in an ice cream freezer. Rafah's Abu Yousef al-Najjar Hospital was closed after being shelled by Israeli tanks, and the Kuwaiti Hospital that we visited just a day earlier had become an alternate venue, where this freezer was the only option available.

Al-Najjar's director, Abdullah Shehadeh, told Al-Monitor, "We decided to move the patients when shells hit the main gate. Some patients, out of fear, ran out, despite the gravity of the security situation. We are now working out of this ill-equipped hospital."

The Emirati Red Crescent Maternity Hospital, west of Rafah, has been transformed into a large container for corpses, with fruit and vegetable freezers filled with dozens of bodies.

I saw corpses on the floor, some with nametags on their chests, while others remained unknown. We held our noses, for the stench was unbearable, as flies filled the air.

Ibrahim Hamad, 27, removed his five-year-old son's shroud-wrapped body from a vegetable freezer. Fighting back tears, he told Al-Monitor, "He died as a result of a reconnaissance drone missile attack. His body has been here since yesterday. The dangerous situation prevented me from coming to take him any sooner."

I thank God that my relatives were quickly buried, and that my cousins Mustafa, Malak and Ismail did not remain long in a freezer, lest their bodies freeze, and their souls now rest in peace, leaving us with nothing but the silence of death and bodies forever trapped in the postures of their passing.

On the fifth day of the war, when I went to write my Rafah report about the shelling of the Ghannam family, I stopped by to visit my cousin's house. I saw my relatives and we took photographs together. During the war, my cousin Wael's wife had given birth to twins, Mustafa and Ibrahim, who were like two tiny angels, harbingers of hope and joy.

How could I have known that this would be our last meeting? I wish I had stayed longer and talked to them some more. Hanadi, Asmaa, my uncle and his wife laughed as they joked about the twist of fate that brought us together in the middle of a war, at a time when Israeli occupation forces had not yet begun perpetrating their wanton war crimes against Rafah.

Endings are so strange, as are living moments that suddenly become relegated to the past. We will never see them again, and the pictures that I took of the twins are now so precious, as one of them, Mustafa, was killed, while the other, Ibrahim, remained alive.

I wonder how they could differentiate between them, for they looked so much alike. Who identified them when their father died and their mother lay wounded in intensive care? Who was Mustafa, and who was Ibrahim? It was as if they had merged upon one twin's death.

In the photos taken after their death, my family looked so peaceful, asleep with their eyes closed. None of them were disfigured or burned, unlike hundreds of dead children and civilians that US-made weapons killed before them. We wondered if they died in pain. What happened when the missile, carrying tons of explosives, impacted their modest house and exploded, creating air pressure so fierce that their internal organs burst? Their suffering was perhaps lessened by the fact that they were sleeping.

I didn't see them when I went to Rafah on Aug. 2. I wrote about the death of the Ayad Abu Taha family, which was targeted by warplanes, and saw the corpse of Rizk Abu Taha, one year old, when it arrived at the Kuwaiti Hospital.

I observed him at length. He looked alive. One could see that he had been playing when he died, dressed in his pink pants. How could he be at such peace? The bodies of war victims look so different from how they appear on television. They are so real, so substantial, suddenly there before you, without any newscast introductions, music or slogans.

Bodies lay everywhere, and it was if everything in life had been to prepare us for this moment. Suddenly, the dead left their personal lives behind: their cell phones, homes, clothes, perfumes and daily chores. Most importantly, they left the fear of war behind.

Distances in the small Gaza Strip have grown larger, distances and time expanding as a result of the fear and death that shrank the life expectancy of the populace. We were unable to join the family for the funerals. My uncle, Ahmad al-Ghoul, later told me over the phone, "Because of the inherent danger, our goodbyes to them lasted mere seconds. Malak's eyes laid open, as if to ask, 'What wrong did I commit?'"

I was born in 1982, in that same house in Rafah's refugee camp, where the family's large household expanded. I grew up there, and everything else grew with us: the first intifada, the resistance, my nearby school that I walked to every day. There, I saw my first-ever book library. There, I remember seeing my grandfather fall asleep as he listened to the BBC. And there, I laid eyes on the first Israeli soldier in my life, striking my grandfather to force him to erase the national slogans that adorned the walls of our refugee camp home.

Now, the house and its future memories have been laid to waste, its children taken to early graves. Homes and recollections bombed into oblivion, their inhabitants homeless and lost, just as their camp always had been. Never ask me about peace again.

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/08/rafah-gaza-war-hospitals-filled-bodies-palestinians.html#

[whitey]

LOL. You're having me on right. So they will somehow obliterate Israel (their words not mine) but not the Jews.  It's in their CHARTER.

This belief that "Israel = All Jews" seems to be a common misconception - NOT ALL JEWS ARE ISRAELI!! Israel is a state, Judaism is a religion / race. One does not equate the other. Anti-Israeli does not equal anti-Jewish. Wanting an end to Israel as it currently exists does not equal wanting Jewish people wiped off the planet.

Just saw your post re Islamic Jihadists whitey and personally I draw a definite line between Hamas (who are fighting in their own country against a superior oppressive military force with a view to "freeing" their people) and other groups who may be categorised in the same manner but who operate in different theatres

So let me ask the question in a more pointed manner....when Hamas obliterates Israel.....what do you think will become of the ISRAELI Jews who comprise approx 80% of the population of Israel

Will they survive the obliteration, or will it be a more gentle, Hamas flavored obliteration

[charlieTully]

You are mistaking outrage at genocide for support of Hamas.

So why were the attendees at GHDs Dungannon event waving Hamas flags around then

http://static1.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/5300-0/photos/1406068833-peoples-protest-in-solidarity-with-palestine-in-dungannon_5340040.jpg

(I don't know how to paste pictures, but google the event if you think I'm making it up)

I'll give you a million pounds if you can show me the Hamas flag in the picture

My apologies...It's a Hezbollah flag not a Hamas flag....

Here's the guys in Dublin with the Hamas flag

http://markhumphrys.com/Bitmaps/free.gaza.2.lores.jpg

that's your proof of widespread support in Ireland for Hamas? I have never seen anything bring people out on the streets like this in years, there has been more protests over the 32 counties than the collapse of the economy managed to generate, its honestly not a matter of republicanism etc, I know people who have never expressed a political opinion in their lives who are organising to send out clothing and medical aid, lifelong sdlp voters are standing shoulder to shoulder with sf and eirigi in newry protesting, party politics are left aside. Ive done my fair share of trolling whity but Jesus lad, this shit is beyond trying to get a response on gaa board.

[whitey]

Charlie..you know what your probably right...I'm getting a little OCD on this topic


Bottom line is Hamas Flags were evident at several Pro Gaza rallies in the States and elsewhere. It made front page news.  FFS an Al Quada flag was seemingly evident at a protest in London (but I don't know if that is true)

It's very possible that the legitimate protests are being undermined with folks who have some other agenda.

[give her dixie]

Charlie..you know what your probably right...I'm getting a little OCD on this topic


Bottom line is Hamas Flags were evident at several Pro Gaza rallies in the States and elsewhere. It made front page news.  FFS an Al Quada flag was seemingly evident at a protest in London (but I don't know if that is true)

It's very possible that the legitimate protests are being undermined with folks who have some other agenda.

Whitey, Union Flags and USA flags fly everywhere and look at the blood dripping from them

[give her dixie]

This is a report from the UK Deputy Israeli Ambassador following his visit just 6 weeks ago.

Look at who he met, who attended the functions, and in particular, the following statement:

'Israel is a biblical prophecy fulfilled in our present time. It is a miracle, a true light among the nations'.



Deputy Ambassador Na'eh heads to Northern Ireland


​This week the Deputy Ambassador Mr Eitan Na'eh visited Belfast in his first diplomatic visit to Northern Ireland. He was accompanied by Steven Jaffe, co-chair of Northern Ireland friends of Israel who escorted Mr. Na'eh to a range of meetings.

Mr. Na'eh was proud to attend the Dem​ocratic Unionist Party Friends of Israel Launch, hosted by David McIlveen MLA who spoke along side the First Minister of Northern Ireland Peter Robinson MLA.  The First Minister said, 'As a nation, Israel has been passionate in standing up for democracy, it has led the way in development and research and has a fantastic economy. We are proud of our friendship with Israel and continue to stand with you.

Mr Na'eh had a busy schedule filled with political meetings in Stormont. He spoke to Junior Ministers Jonathan Bell MLA and Jennifer McCann MLA about the current situation in Israel, and listened to their experiences in regard to the peace building process in Northern Ireland.  Whilst in Stormont, Mr Na'eh met with the Deputy Speaker of the house Mitchel McLaughlin MLA and spoke at a lunch event for the political representatives of the Northern Ireland Assembly.

The afternoon was spent gaining a better understanding of the role of civil society group in peace building activities and in the reconciliation process. Mr Na'eh met with Evelyn Collins from the Equality Commission and with Liam Maskey of Intercomm, alongside senior personnel from the police force. 

Reflecting on these two meetings, Mr. Na'eh said that the value of civil society groups in bringing people together and bridging the divides, was critical to moving forward in a process of reconciliation. Central to Northern Ireland was the willingness to renounce violence and to accept that compromise was necessary for both sides in order to move forward.

Later that evening Mr Na'eh attended a Night to Honour Israel celebration in Stormont hosted by the International Christian Embassy in Jerusalem.The night was a joyous occasion, filled with Music, dance and prayer for the state of Israel and was attended by cross party political representatives. Mr Na'eh spoke alongside David McIlveen MLA, Alban Maginness MLA and Donna Holbrook, Director of the ICEJ in Canada.  Mr Na'eh addressed the two hundred person crowd saying, 'Israel is a biblical prophecy fulfilled in our present time. It is a miracle, a true light among the nations'.

Following his visit to Northern Ireland, discussions will occur with political representatives about ways to deepen the relationship between Israel and Northern Ireland.​

http://embassies.gov.il/london/NewsAndEvents/Pages/Deputy-Ambassador-Na%27eh-heads-to-Northern-Ireland.aspx

[glens abu]

Just to counteract Dixie usual anti SF propaganda,before SF meet with Israel Ambassador they cleared it with the Palestine Ambassador who wanted SF to meet him and put forward the points that they have been unable to do.SF are in daily contact with the Palestine Ambassador and he was also welcomed and given pride of place at the Hunger strike commemoration on Sunday which was organised by SF.Sure if these people who profess to be so concerned about what's happening in Gaza but the same effort into helping as they do SF bashing it would be wonderful.

[AZOffaly]

In fairness glens, I've had my run ins with GHD's views on the conflict over there (before this latest round of atrocities) but I don't think you can accuse him of being a hurler on the ditch with this one. The man drove a truck full of humanitarian aid to Gaza, and is always at these demos etc.

[macdanger2]

LOL. You're having me on right. So they will somehow obliterate Israel (their words not mine) but not the Jews.  It's in their CHARTER.

This belief that "Israel = All Jews" seems to be a common misconception - NOT ALL JEWS ARE ISRAELI!! Israel is a state, Judaism is a religion / race. One does not equate the other. Anti-Israeli does not equal anti-Jewish. Wanting an end to Israel as it currently exists does not equal wanting Jewish people wiped off the planet.

Just saw your post re Islamic Jihadists whitey and personally I draw a definite line between Hamas (who are fighting in their own country against a superior oppressive military force with a view to "freeing" their people) and other groups who may be categorised in the same manner but who operate in different theatres

So let me ask the question in a more pointed manner....when Hamas obliterates Israel.....what do you think will become of the ISRAELI Jews who comprise approx 80% of the population of Israel

Will they survive the obliteration, or will it be a more gentle, Hamas flavored obliteration

The "obliteration" of Israel which is in their charter is often referred to as the "obliteration" of all Jews, these are not the same thing and it's a huge difference. Referring to it incorrectly as the latter serves one particular agenda to justify the actions of Israel which are unjustifiable.

IMO, (and I'm not a Hamas spokesperson!) it refers to the destruction of the Israeli war mongering state which has made the lives of the Palestinians a misery for however many years. The destruction of the Israeli state as it currently stands does not necessarily (and is unlikely to be) a military action, it needs to be a political action. As such, there willbe no physical "obliteration" of Jewish Israelis, they will belong to whatever new entity comes after Israel as it currently exists (the name of the new entity may well still be Israel)

[AZOffaly]

I think the Hamas charter is calling for the obliteration of the state of Israel, and any other Jewish controlled state that would be created in its stead. (Not necessarily Jewish people although it's hard to see how an entire nation could be subsumed into a Muslim country without major issues).

I can't see this working. The only solution I can possibly see is the two state solution, along the lines of the UN 1967 charter, with the borders being policed by an international armed force to ensure Israel does not breach the borders or try to attack or settle Palestinian land again, and to also make sure the more hardline, obliterate Israel, crew don't try and do just that.

But the solution has to be parked for the moment, the immediate priority has to be to stop the Israeli slaughter of Palestinians, and I am disgusted with the international community. Politicians really are c***ts.