The Palestine thread

[LeoMc]

http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Rabbi-Lior-Jewish-law-permits-destruction-of-Gaza-to-bring-safety-to-Israel-368605

Rabbi Lior: Jewish law permits destruction of Gaza to bring safety to Israel

Rabbi Dov Lior, a national- religious leader and the chief rabbi of Kiryat Arba and Hebron, published a letter on Monday saying that Jewish law permits destroying the entire Gaza Strip to bring peace to the south of the country.

Lior said that he had received questions about whether Jewish law permits harming a civilian population not directly involved with the combatants.

He first cited the opinion of the Maharal of Prague, a renowned 16th-century rabbi, who wrote that a nation under attack can wage a fierce war against the assaulting nation, and that it is not obligated regarding the safety of people who are personally involved in hostilities.

"At a time of war, the nation under attack is allowed to punish the enemy population with measures it finds suitable, such as blocking supplies or electricity, as well as shelling the entire area according to the army minister's judgment, and not to needlessly endanger soldiers but rather to take crushing deterring steps to exterminate the enemy," Lior wrote.

Absolutely bonkers, In any normal society Lior would have been locked up. Even Netanyahu thinks he is an extremist. http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.556311

[johnneycool]

The fuel tanks for the only power plant in Gaza have been destroyed today 

When the hawks in the US talked about bombing Iraq back to the stone age this is what they had in mind and its taken Israel to do it with US armory.

This is as big a disgrace as the ethnic cleansing that happened in Kosovo and other Balkan republics, yet we're watching and letting it happen..

[seafoid]

http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Rabbi-Lior-Jewish-law-permits-destruction-of-Gaza-to-bring-safety-to-Israel-368605

Rabbi Lior: Jewish law permits destruction of Gaza to bring safety to Israel

Rabbi Dov Lior, a national- religious leader and the chief rabbi of Kiryat Arba and Hebron, published a letter on Monday saying that Jewish law permits destroying the entire Gaza Strip to bring peace to the south of the country.

Lior said that he had received questions about whether Jewish law permits harming a civilian population not directly involved with the combatants.

He first cited the opinion of the Maharal of Prague, a renowned 16th-century rabbi, who wrote that a nation under attack can wage a fierce war against the assaulting nation, and that it is not obligated regarding the safety of people who are personally involved in hostilities.

"At a time of war, the nation under attack is allowed to punish the enemy population with measures it finds suitable, such as blocking supplies or electricity, as well as shelling the entire area according to the army minister's judgment, and not to needlessly endanger soldiers but rather to take crushing deterring steps to exterminate the enemy," Lior wrote.

Absolutely bonkers, In any normal society Lior would have been locked up. Even Netanyahu thinks he is an extremist. http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.556311

There are more like him in the other settlements

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/2.209/the-king-s-torah-a-rabbinic-text-or-a-call-to-terror-1.261930
The prohibition 'Thou Shalt Not Murder' applies only "to a Jew who kills a Jew," write Rabbis Yitzhak Shapira and Yosef Elitzur of the West Bank settlement of Yitzhar. Non-Jews are "uncompassionate by nature" and attacks on them "curb their evil inclination," while babies and children of Israel's enemies may be killed since "it is clear that they will grow to harm us."

"The King's Torah (Torat Hamelech), Part One: Laws of Life and Death between Israel and the Nations," a 230-page compendium of Halacha, or Jewish religious law, published by the Od Yosef Chai yeshiva in Yitzhar, garnered a front-page exposé in the Israeli tabloid Ma'ariv, which called it the stuff of "Jewish terror."

And secular Jews with similar ideas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaJXFbH4McM

[LeoMc]

http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Rabbi-Lior-Jewish-law-permits-destruction-of-Gaza-to-bring-safety-to-Israel-368605

Rabbi Lior: Jewish law permits destruction of Gaza to bring safety to Israel

Rabbi Dov Lior, a national- religious leader and the chief rabbi of Kiryat Arba and Hebron, published a letter on Monday saying that Jewish law permits destroying the entire Gaza Strip to bring peace to the south of the country.

Lior said that he had received questions about whether Jewish law permits harming a civilian population not directly involved with the combatants.

He first cited the opinion of the Maharal of Prague, a renowned 16th-century rabbi, who wrote that a nation under attack can wage a fierce war against the assaulting nation, and that it is not obligated regarding the safety of people who are personally involved in hostilities.

"At a time of war, the nation under attack is allowed to punish the enemy population with measures it finds suitable, such as blocking supplies or electricity, as well as shelling the entire area according to the army minister's judgment, and not to needlessly endanger soldiers but rather to take crushing deterring steps to exterminate the enemy," Lior wrote.

Absolutely bonkers, In any normal society Lior would have been locked up. Even Netanyahu thinks he is an extremist. http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.556311

There are more like him in the other settlements

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/2.209/the-king-s-torah-a-rabbinic-text-or-a-call-to-terror-1.261930
The prohibition 'Thou Shalt Not Murder' applies only "to a Jew who kills a Jew," write Rabbis Yitzhak Shapira and Yosef Elitzur of the West Bank settlement of Yitzhar. Non-Jews are "uncompassionate by nature" and attacks on them "curb their evil inclination," while babies and children of Israel's enemies may be killed since "it is clear that they will grow to harm us."

"The King's Torah (Torat Hamelech), Part One: Laws of Life and Death between Israel and the Nations," a 230-page compendium of Halacha, or Jewish religious law, published by the Od Yosef Chai yeshiva in Yitzhar, garnered a front-page exposé in the Israeli tabloid Ma'ariv, which called it the stuff of "Jewish terror."

And secular Jews with similar ideas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaJXFbH4McM

1 extremist like that is too many when they have such a grip on power.

[Arthur_Friend]

"I have stated that the onslaught must stop, but now you will have to address the other side of that and that is , if they stop, are they to accept indefinite shelling simply because they have the technology to stop most (not all) Hamas shells ? I do not think that is acceptable."

This paragraph alone shows that you have swallowed all the bullshit you're being fed.

It is clear that you are yet another Hamas stooge.

Educate yourself on the wider issues and come back with a grown up response like a good lad.

That's right Mike. Anyone who hasn't sucked up the Israeli narrative on this conflict is a Hamas stooge 

[AZOffaly]

I think a lot of ye have a hard on for Sheehy based on his rising ye. Maybe he deserves some of it. But if you look at what he is saying, what do ye actually disagree with?

1 - Israel is guilty of war crimes, and the atrocities currently ongoing are more of the same.
2 - Israel is illegally settling Gaza and the West Bank, and should be forced to revert to the 1967 UN Boundary.
3 - Israel, within those boundaries has a right to exist.
4 - Palestine, within those boundaries has a right to exist.
5 - An external force, probably the UN, will be required to keep each side from attacking the other.
6 - Hamas has fired rockets into Israel, and this is again criminal behaviour, but it does not excuse the Israeli response.

To be honest, I don't think anyone on this board is a million miles away from what Sheehy is saying. I know I'm not, and I've had my disagreements with him in the past. Sheehy takes exception when some posts from very Pro-Palestinian positions seem to either see only one side, or castigate the entire Israeli population. That seems to be the real disconnect here.

I understand that GHD, Seafoid and Mike Sheehy hold entrenched positions, but sometimes you get so 'dug in' that you don't realise your battle lines are nearly close enough to shake hands.

[JimStynes]

I think a lot of ye have a hard on for Sheehy based on his rising ye. Maybe he deserves some of it. But if you look at what he is saying, what do ye actually disagree with?

1 - Israel is guilty of war crimes, and the atrocities currently ongoing are more of the same.
2 - Israel is illegally settling Gaza and the West Bank, and should be forced to revert to the 1967 UN Boundary.
3 - Israel, within those boundaries has a right to exist.
4 - Palestine, within those boundaries has a right to exist.
5 - An external force, probably the UN, will be required to keep each side from attacking the other.
6 - Hamas has fired rockets into Israel, and this is again criminal behaviour, but it does not excuse the Israeli response.

To be honest, I don't think anyone on this board is a million miles away from what Sheehy is saying. I know I'm not, and I've had my disagreements with him in the past. Sheehy takes exception when some posts from very Pro-Palestinian positions seem to either see only one side, or castigate the entire Israeli population. That seems to be the real disconnect here.

I understand that GHD, Seafoid and Mike Sheehy hold entrenched positions, but sometimes you get so 'dug in' that you don't realise your battle lines are nearly close enough to shake hands.

Sheehy called me a p***k 

[AZOffaly]

Yeah, he goes overboard too. I don't agree with calling people anti-semites or Nazi sympathisers either.

[MasterShake]

I think a lot of ye have a hard on for Sheehy based on his rising ye. Maybe he deserves some of it. But if you look at what he is saying, what do ye actually disagree with?

1 - Israel is guilty of war crimes, and the atrocities currently ongoing are more of the same.
2 - Israel is illegally settling Gaza and the West Bank, and should be forced to revert to the 1967 UN Boundary.
3 - Israel, within those boundaries has a right to exist.
4 - Palestine, within those boundaries has a right to exist.
5 - An external force, probably the UN, will be required to keep each side from attacking the other.
6 - Hamas has fired rockets into Israel, and this is again criminal behaviour, but it does not excuse the Israeli response.

To be honest, I don't think anyone on this board is a million miles away from what Sheehy is saying. I know I'm not, and I've had my disagreements with him in the past. Sheehy takes exception when some posts from very Pro-Palestinian positions seem to either see only one side, or castigate the entire Israeli population. That seems to be the real disconnect here.

I understand that GHD, Seafoid and Mike Sheehy hold entrenched positions, but sometimes you get so 'dug in' that you don't realise your battle lines are nearly close enough to shake hands.

'Israeli response'...immediately characterizes the Palestinians as the instigators.

[Rossfan]

http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Rabbi-Lior-Jewish-law-permits-destruction-of-Gaza-to-bring-safety-to-Israel-368605

Rabbi Lior: Jewish law permits destruction of Gaza to bring safety to Israel

Rabbi Dov Lior, a national- religious leader and the chief rabbi of Kiryat Arba and Hebron, published a letter on Monday saying that Jewish law permits destroying the entire Gaza Strip to bring peace to the south of the country.

He'd get on well with "Pastor" McConnell and his ilk.
It looks like the rogue State of Israel is set on flattening Gaza and driving the civilian population into Egyptian territory. They'll leave Gaza there as some kind of unoccupied buffer Zone.

[AZOffaly]

I think a lot of ye have a hard on for Sheehy based on his rising ye. Maybe he deserves some of it. But if you look at what he is saying, what do ye actually disagree with?

1 - Israel is guilty of war crimes, and the atrocities currently ongoing are more of the same.
2 - Israel is illegally settling Gaza and the West Bank, and should be forced to revert to the 1967 UN Boundary.
3 - Israel, within those boundaries has a right to exist.
4 - Palestine, within those boundaries has a right to exist.
5 - An external force, probably the UN, will be required to keep each side from attacking the other.
6 - Hamas has fired rockets into Israel, and this is again criminal behaviour, but it does not excuse the Israeli response.

To be honest, I don't think anyone on this board is a million miles away from what Sheehy is saying. I know I'm not, and I've had my disagreements with him in the past. Sheehy takes exception when some posts from very Pro-Palestinian positions seem to either see only one side, or castigate the entire Israeli population. That seems to be the real disconnect here.

I understand that GHD, Seafoid and Mike Sheehy hold entrenched positions, but sometimes you get so 'dug in' that you don't realise your battle lines are nearly close enough to shake hands.

'Israeli response'...immediately characterizes the Palestinians as the instigators.

No it doesn't. Read the context of the sentence and don't put a context that isn't there. The origin of the problem is Israel's illegal occupation and terrorising of the Palestinian people. However each INDIVIDUAL rocket instance from Hamas (or other groups) is like manna from heaven for the Israeli war hawks who are looking for an excuse to attack again, and to present it as 'defending Israel'.

Each rocket attack guarantees more martyred children and civilians in Gaza. You have to question Hamas' rationale there.

[seafoid]

I think a lot of ye have a hard on for Sheehy based on his rising ye. Maybe he deserves some of it. But if you look at what he is saying, what do ye actually disagree with?

1 - Israel is guilty of war crimes, and the atrocities currently ongoing are more of the same.
2 - Israel is illegally settling Gaza and the West Bank, and should be forced to revert to the 1967 UN Boundary.
3 - Israel, within those boundaries has a right to exist.
4 - Palestine, within those boundaries has a right to exist.
5 - An external force, probably the UN, will be required to keep each side from attacking the other.
6 - Hamas has fired rockets into Israel, and this is again criminal behaviour, but it does not excuse the Israeli response.

To be honest, I don't think anyone on this board is a million miles away from what Sheehy is saying. I know I'm not, and I've had my disagreements with him in the past. Sheehy takes exception when some posts from very Pro-Palestinian positions seem to either see only one side, or castigate the entire Israeli population. That seems to be the real disconnect here.

I understand that GHD, Seafoid and Mike Sheehy hold entrenched positions, but sometimes you get so 'dug in' that you don't realise your battle lines are nearly close enough to shake hands.

Sheehy called me a p***k 

He was only trying to be friendly

[seafoid]

I think a lot of ye have a hard on for Sheehy based on his rising ye. Maybe he deserves some of it. But if you look at what he is saying, what do ye actually disagree with?

1 - Israel is guilty of war crimes, and the atrocities currently ongoing are more of the same.
2 - Israel is illegally settling Gaza and the West Bank, and should be forced to revert to the 1967 UN Boundary.
3 - Israel, within those boundaries has a right to exist.
4 - Palestine, within those boundaries has a right to exist.
5 - An external force, probably the UN, will be required to keep each side from attacking the other.
6 - Hamas has fired rockets into Israel, and this is again criminal behaviour, but it does not excuse the Israeli response.

To be honest, I don't think anyone on this board is a million miles away from what Sheehy is saying. I know I'm not, and I've had my disagreements with him in the past. Sheehy takes exception when some posts from very Pro-Palestinian positions seem to either see only one side, or castigate the entire Israeli population. That seems to be the real disconnect here.

I understand that GHD, Seafoid and Mike Sheehy hold entrenched positions, but sometimes you get so 'dug in' that you don't realise your battle lines are nearly close enough to shake hands.

He only started bringing together those points recently.
His modus operandi is insulting his target.
I can't take him seriously.
Nobody is interested in being insulted every time they try to make a point.

[AZOffaly]

That's true, and I agree he goes OTT at times. Also I'm going to stop speaking for him because at the end of the day, he's well able to speak for himself.

But aside from the fall out ye've been having, are you in general agreement with the points he's started to articulate in the manner above?

[Arthur_Friend]

I think a lot of ye have a hard on for Sheehy based on his rising ye. Maybe he deserves some of it. But if you look at what he is saying, what do ye actually disagree with?

1 - Israel is guilty of war crimes, and the atrocities currently ongoing are more of the same.
2 - Israel is illegally settling Gaza and the West Bank, and should be forced to revert to the 1967 UN Boundary.
3 - Israel, within those boundaries has a right to exist.
4 - Palestine, within those boundaries has a right to exist.
5 - An external force, probably the UN, will be required to keep each side from attacking the other.
6 - Hamas has fired rockets into Israel, and this is again criminal behaviour, but it does not excuse the Israeli response.

To be honest, I don't think anyone on this board is a million miles away from what Sheehy is saying. I know I'm not, and I've had my disagreements with him in the past. Sheehy takes exception when some posts from very Pro-Palestinian positions seem to either see only one side, or castigate the entire Israeli population. That seems to be the real disconnect here.

I understand that GHD, Seafoid and Mike Sheehy hold entrenched positions, but sometimes you get so 'dug in' that you don't realise your battle lines are nearly close enough to shake hands.

'Israeli response'...immediately characterizes the Palestinians as the instigators.

Got in there ahead of me. Never once have I heard of a rocket attack from Gaza being described as a 'Hamas response'. Its always Israeli response, counterstrike, countermeasure, retaliation, etc.