The Palestine thread

[Mike Sheehy]

... you anti-semites ...

Ladies and gentlemen, I present the get-out-of-jail card that the Israelis use every time to justify their genocidal maniacal tendencies and get away with mass murder.

Criticize the policies of the Israeli government? You sound like Adolf!

No. I abhor the policies of the Israeli government. I equally abhor people who characterize others as sub-human.

So why don't you condemn the people of Israel for standing foursquare behind butcher Netanyahu ? You are incoherent .
Is it right that Jewish gangs are roaming Jerusalem beating up Palestinians ? Is that my fault as well ?

Nah, that tack wont work seafoid. Palestinians voted for Hamas. Israelis vote for Netanyahu. That's the nature of politics in countries at war. Any rational, reasonable person can make that observation without branding the people of either country as sub-human.

Now, if you said that people are accountable for who they elect and left it at that, grand. I would agree but, instead, you only seem to want to hold Israelis accountable for who they elect. Again, it is this double standard that is the mark of an anti-Semite.

Also, no, it is wrong that Jewish gangs are roaming Jerusalem beating up Palestinians. Completely wrong. Whos fault is that ? well,  it is probably the fault of your social media doppelganger on the other side who is saying that Palestinians are subhuman. Like I've said before, bigots just occupy opposite sides of the same coin.

The bottom line is that if , as you claim, your goal is purely about Palestinian self-determination you can prove it by distancing yourself from  GHD's "subhuman" comments or, at the very least, don't jump in whenever he gets called out for going off on his rants.

I am not responsible for what anyone else posts.
Israelis are human but as a people they are really shortsighted. This war is a disaster for Israel.
And whose fault is the systemic incitement that drives people of  limited mental ability to kill Palestinians in Jerusalem? It's Netanyahu's fault.
Israel is out of control.  There's no point in defending it.

You are responsible if you jump in and have a go at me when I call someone out for making reprehensible statements.

But, you at least made some effort in that last post so I will reciprocate.....

I am not "defending Israel" in the way that people like you portray it. I am "defending Israel" in the same way I would defend any nation or race by saying , unequivocally, that they have a right to exist and a right to live in peace . Palestinians also have a right to exist and live in peace in a Palestinian state. That is my starting point. the Israelis are acting illegally by occupying Palestinian territory. This should end.  They claim that they are occupying these lands for security reasons.My take is more nuanced than yours. I believe that the security issue is both a lie and a truth at the same time. For some it is an excuse to simply occupy the land. For others it is genuinely a security issue. Hamas say they are to quote their leader "not fanatics we are not fundamentalists" . There may be some truth to that. Within in any armed movement there will be a spectrum but, clearly, it is also a lie as demonstrated by their continued attacks before and during this latest escalation.

This Israeli administration is for sure shortsighted and criminal but there are plenty of dissenting voices within Israel . As I have to keep pointing out to you , you have quoted probably a hundred articles from the third biggest newspaper in Israel in support of your arguments and so has GHD yet he then points at a poll conducted with a wartime populace and takes that as proof of their sub-humanity  . It is this kind of egregious misrepresentation that has to stop. Hold the Israelis to a high standard, for sure but do it with some sense of balance.

[give her dixie]

If anyone is around Dungannon on Thursday evening at 8pm, come along and hear my friend from Gaza speak about what is going on in Gaza right now. His name is Yousef Al Helou and so far he has lost 12 members of his extended family in an Israeli airstrike. His home has also been destroyed.

https://www.facebook.com/events/1454263701506391/?fref=ts

He will also be in Belfast on Friday evening, and I will let people know the details as I get them.

On Saturday I am bringing him to Derry where he will also speak at another event there. I will let you know the details later

This is an interview he recently gave to The Real News Network

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=12150#.U9DpdgAKZKs.facebook

You are doing great work publicising the Palestinians plight. It is important people see real faces and remember that Palestinians are human beings not numbers. War dehumanises and people caught in conflicts have a need to dehumanise the enemy and you have been there but for peace enemies must see each other as human beings. Israelis are human beings also.

Last Friday night I spoke on line to another friend from Gaza. I asked him to put together a few words for me to read out at the rally on Saturday. He said he would, and then 15 minutes later an extended family members home was hit by an airstrike. 20 were killed, 11 of them children.

Many other friends have all been reporting either a friend, a sister, brother, cousin, parent, grandparent getting killed. There isn't a family in Gaza who hasn't had a family member killed or injured over the years in Gaza. Everyone is carrying a lot of pain, and only for their deep faith, I don't know how they would cope.

Talking to anyone over there at present and they will tell you that Cast Lead 5 years ago was a picnic. I saw the after effects of Cast Lead, and I can't image how much worse it can be.

Gaza is a perfect example of mans inhumanity to his fellow man. It is beyond belief.

[J OGorman]

... you anti-semites ...

Ladies and gentlemen, I present the get-out-of-jail card that the Israelis use every time to justify their genocidal maniacal tendencies and get away with mass murder.

Criticize the policies of the Israeli government? You sound like Adolf!

No. I abhor the policies of the Israeli government. I equally abhor people who characterize others as sub-human.

people deliberately killing women and children with the best weaponry money can buy and people calling these killers sub-human are equally bad in your mind? yer not wise

[give her dixie]

The tweets coming from Gaza right now are horrific. They are getting it full on from land sea and air.

Follow the tweets here via this link

https://twitter.com/occpal/lists/gazaunderattack

[macdanger2]

Regardless of what the Israeli govt is doing, it's unacceptable to brand all or most Israelis "sub-human" ffs.

When it boils down to it, your average Israeli, average Palestinian, average Irishman, average Ugandan, average anybody, just wants to get up in the morning, make enough to feed his family and live in peace. This isn't always possible but it's more to do with a culture of fear of "them" engendered by those in power rather than a lack of humanity on the part of your average Joe

[Mike Sheehy]

... you anti-semites ...

Ladies and gentlemen, I present the get-out-of-jail card that the Israelis use every time to justify their genocidal maniacal tendencies and get away with mass murder.

Criticize the policies of the Israeli government? You sound like Adolf!

No. I abhor the policies of the Israeli government. I equally abhor people who characterize others as sub-human.

people deliberately killing women and children with the best weaponry money can buy and people calling these killers sub-human are equally bad in your mind? yer not wise

He called 87% of the population sub-human that is what I was calling him to task for and yes, I view people like that as equally abhorrent because it is that kind of bigotry that has led to this situation.

And yes, I think that what the Israelis are doing is beyond the pale .They know they have an advantage in weaponry and continue to target civilian areas and that is a war crime. Does the general Israeli population share the blame ? Yes they do , they have to accept responsibility for what their government does in their name likewise  Palestinians voted for Hamas who have vowed to destroy Israel and have killing jews as their stated aim. However, neither side is "subhuman" because of those choices. Brutalized, yes, subhuman, no.

I have stated that the onslaught must stop, but now you will have to address the other side of that and that is , if they stop, are they to accept indefinite shelling simply because they have the technology to stop most (not all) Hamas shells ? I do not think that is acceptable.

As I stated before, Somebody has to step in and "persuade" the Israelies to withdraw to the UN mandated borders. I think it has reached the stage where only force will achieve this but it cant be Hamas or any other force that is bent on their destruction. It has to be a controlled force but with teeth and that force will have to guarantee Israels security in return for that withdrawal.

Take away their chief excuse and then I will support any punitive action if they transgress after that.

[Arthur_Friend]

Mike Sheehy, you haven't got a clue.

[Mike Sheehy]

Mike Sheehy, you haven't got a clue.

Nah, you are the clueless one as evidenced by your cop out one liner response. You probably couldn't find the place on the map never mind discuss it.

[Arthur_Friend]

Mike Sheehy, you haven't got a clue.

Nah, you are the clueless one as evidenced by your cop out one liner response. You probably couldn't find the place on the map never mind discuss it.

Why do you start from the position that Israeli military action is taken as a reaction to rockets from Gaza and not vice-versa?

[Arthur_Friend]

"I have stated that the onslaught must stop, but now you will have to address the other side of that and that is , if they stop, are they to accept indefinite shelling simply because they have the technology to stop most (not all) Hamas shells ? I do not think that is acceptable."

This paragraph alone shows that you have swallowed all the bullshit you're being fed.

[Mike Sheehy]

Mike Sheehy, you haven't got a clue.

Nah, you are the clueless one as evidenced by your cop out one liner response. You probably couldn't find the place on the map never mind discuss it.

Why do you start from the position that Israeli military action is taken as a reaction to rockets from Gaza and not vice-versa?

You fail on basic comprehension. In my last post  I started from the position that the Israeli onsluaght must stop. I did not make it a precondition that it should stop only if the rockets stop . However, it is not acceptable for Hamas to continually fire rockets into Israel that is what I challenged J'Ogorman to address.

[Mike Sheehy]

"I have stated that the onslaught must stop, but now you will have to address the other side of that and that is , if they stop, are they to accept indefinite shelling simply because they have the technology to stop most (not all) Hamas shells ? I do not think that is acceptable."

This paragraph alone shows that you have swallowed all the bullshit you're being fed.

It is clear that you are yet another Hamas stooge.

Educate yourself on the wider issues and come back with a grown up response like a good lad.

[give her dixie]

For the past 2 hours Israel has stepped up their bombing of Gaza and have been raining bombs down on them from land sea and air. There have been countless deaths reported and hundreds injured. The sky is ablaze with flares and bombs. This is the worst night so far by all accounts. Someone on Twitter had this to say:

"Nothing can be said, nothing can be done. We sit and wait for our turn to join the list of martyrs"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZALwMbReo4&feature=youtu.be

[give her dixie]

This the sky in Gaza tonight

[give her dixie]

In the past 90 minutes Israel have killed a further 18 Palestinians.  11 in one house in Buraij