The Palestine thread

[seafoid]

It is hard to know which are worse, the Israeli leadership who are positively medieval in their thinking and bloodlust, or the Palestinian traitors who think launching useless rockets at Israel is a good idea.

Damning evidence today of kids on a beach being deliberately targeted from gunboats off-shore.

In the video you can see kids running along a beach after a shell has explodes. One is wearing a distinctive green t-shirt. Another shell goes off. Next thing t-shirt boy of @10 is being carried limp into an ambulance. WTF.

Now that is not a war crime - there is no war. That is just murder. Israel says that they will hold an investigation. What a joke. It s simple ethnic cleansing. Yeah Hamas give them an excuse and boy do they take it. There will be a ceasefire but these hostilities will drive more Palistinians out. The next bouts will drive more out until the area is cleansed. Targeting the kids is the oldest trick in the book. Not only do you take out a potential adversary 10 years down the road you also take out all the potential kids and grandkids etc. they would have. Not only is it murder, it is planned and systematic. And they will continue to get away with it because of their own dreadful experiences in Europe ( which leaves them beyond reproach to an extent) and because the no US administration can afford to reel them in.

Why don't the European Union or the European powers step in ? The only thing that will stop escalations like this for an external force with a bigger stick than the Israelies to step in and keep the peace. If its not going to be the US then who will it be ?

Why do Europeans feel they have no obligations to solve this problem ? and I mean real obligations not simply wailing about what the US should do.

The state of Israel probably would not exist were it not for the extreme anti-Semitism that came to ahead with the holocaust in Europe. The map of the middle east was drawn by European powers. Europe has a debt to pay yet they seem oblivious to their role in all of this.

It is as much the fault of the Americans with their endless vetoes at the UN when the world wanted to bring Israel into line and their hopelessly biased role in the expansion of Jewish settlements that was called the peace process.
AIPAC is the biggest problem.

[Franko]

I think you are right on this one seafoid.  Any other power is all but useless when it comes to intervening here as the US will simply use their UN veto to scupper any response.

However, surely it would be best for other nations to bring some sort of resolution to the UN table to at least force the American's into doing this and thus highlighting their ridiculous stance.

[muppet]

I think you are right on this one seafoid.  Any other power is all but useless when it comes to intervening here as the US will simply use their UN veto to scupper any response.

However, surely it would be best for other nations to bring some sort of resolution to the UN table to at least force the American's into doing this and thus highlighting their ridiculous stance.

Sadly other political issues between the security council's permanent members will take priority over any slaughter in the Middle East.

It is time for everyone to balls up and stop waiting for someone else to do something. The EU should take the lead but sporting organisations made an impact against Apartheid before so, for example, the likes of FIFA could find some moral backbone that we all assume isn't there, and ban Israel. It would be small, but it would be a start.

The dipshits who fired the mortars from Gaza during the ceasefire should be shot. This stupidity and recklessness in the face of such a sick, twisted adversary is beyond any comprehension. It is like leading hungry lions into a creche. Complete f*ckits.

[Mike Sheehy]

I think you are right on this one seafoid.  Any other power is all but useless when it comes to intervening here as the US will simply use their UN veto to scupper any response.

However, surely it would be best for other nations to bring some sort of resolution to the UN table to at least force the American's into doing this and thus highlighting their ridiculous stance.

Look, people are very naïve. If you are Britain and France and you know the US is going to veto then of course its easy to make all the right noises , condemn the veto etc. You can look like you support the Palestinian cause but in reality its at the bottom of your list.

Also, any efforts there have been to get other countries on to the security council to dilute the power of the existing members has been opposed by other European countries.

Europe is willing to pay absolutely zero economic or political price (much less sacrifice any blood) to help normalize the situation in the middle east yet it seems to produce most of the rhetoric.

[seafoid]

FT editorial

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/56e6ea6a-0cd0-11e4-bf1e-00144feabdc0.html

"Israeli policy has left the Palestinian Authority toothless and discredited, its land eaten away by the continuing occupation of the West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem. But Israel's reputation in the world is also eroding, and it is an illusion to think it can remain an oasis of peace and prosperity in a region on fire, so long as the Palestinians have no prospect of a viable state of their own."

The actor and comedian David Schneider on Twitter the last time Israel bombed the shit out of Gaza

"As a Jew, Israel's like a close family member who's hooked on heroin and you just don't know what to do with them any more."-

[Mike Sheehy]

And they will continue to get away with it because of their own dreadful experiences in Europe ( which leaves them beyond reproach to an extent) and because the no US administration can afford to reel them in.

It does not leave them beyond reproach by any means but they definitely have justification for their paranoia, especially in regards to Europe.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-28335358

People must not forget this no matter how unpopular that stance is to some people, especially on here.

[seafoid]

And they will continue to get away with it because of their own dreadful experiences in Europe ( which leaves them beyond reproach to an extent) and because the no US administration can afford to reel them in.

It does not leave them beyond reproach by any means but they definitely have justification for their paranoia, especially in regards to Europe.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-28335358

People must not forget this no matter how unpopular that stance is to some people, especially on here.

The danger is that Israeli behavior leads to a resurgence in anti Semitism.

Jewish history is very sad but the Israelis  have inflicted an awful lot of unnecessary pain on the Palestinians.
It would be better to just give the Palestinians a state and try to live in the future rather than the past.

[Mike Sheehy]

And they will continue to get away with it because of their own dreadful experiences in Europe ( which leaves them beyond reproach to an extent) and because the no US administration can afford to reel them in.

It does not leave them beyond reproach by any means but they definitely have justification for their paranoia, especially in regards to Europe.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-28335358

People must not forget this no matter how unpopular that stance is to some people, especially on here.

The danger is that Israeli behavior leads to a resurgence in anti Semitism.

Jewish history is very sad but the Israelis  have inflicted an awful lot of unnecessary pain on the Palestinians.
It would be better to just give the Palestinians a state and try to live in the future rather than the past.

You have the cart before the horse. You can't leave the past behind if it keeps following you. If there is anti-Semitism in response to Israeli action it is more a case of pre-exsiting attitudes being exposed rather than "new" anti-semitism. Its like the "quenelle". People
can say whatever they want about it being an "anti-establishment" symbol. Right thinking people see through that. Wrt the middle east, Hamas  and the likes of Ahmadinejad are very effective at exploiting and contributing to this form of sectarian hatred


The only way there will be peace IMO is if the international community steps in to restrain the Israelis BUT , at the same time, ensures their security. By ensuring their security you effectively call their bluff. If its "land for peace" then give them the peace and they must give back the land, they will have no excuses after that. If they step out of line after that then I'd support bombing them into the Mediterranean. But you must be as equally ruthless with Hamas as well as the other Arab neighbours.

The problem is that the international community probably wont do this in which case the Israelies will be neither protected nor restrained and all the inevitable tit-for-tat escalations will continue.

[seafoid]

And they will continue to get away with it because of their own dreadful experiences in Europe ( which leaves them beyond reproach to an extent) and because the no US administration can afford to reel them in.

It does not leave them beyond reproach by any means but they definitely have justification for their paranoia, especially in regards to Europe.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-28335358

People must not forget this no matter how unpopular that stance is to some people, especially on here.

The danger is that Israeli behavior leads to a resurgence in anti Semitism.

Jewish history is very sad but the Israelis  have inflicted an awful lot of unnecessary pain on the Palestinians.
It would be better to just give the Palestinians a state and try to live in the future rather than the past.

You have the cart before the horse. You can't leave the past behind if it keeps following you. If there is anti-Semitism in response to Israeli action it is more a case of pre-exsiting attitudes being exposed rather than "new" anti-semitism. Its like the "quenelle". People
can say whatever they want about it being an "anti-establishment" symbol. Right thinking people see through that. Wrt the middle east, Hamas  and the likes of Ahmadinejad are very effective at exploiting and contributing to this form of sectarian hatred


The only way there will be peace IMO is if the international community steps in to restrain the Israelis BUT , at the same time, ensures their security. By ensuring their security you effectively call their bluff. If its "land for peace" then give them the peace and they must give back the land, they will have no excuses after that. If they step out of line after that then I'd support bombing them into the Mediterranean. But you must be as equally ruthless with Hamas as well as the other Arab neighbours.

The problem is that the international community probably wont do this in which case the Israelies will be neither protected nor restrained and all the inevitable tit-for-tat escalations will continue.

The problem is that Israel is on the coastal plan and the Palestinians are confined to Gaza and the mountains. It's very like the colonial experience in tyrone. The shit land was in the mountains. And they didn't have time to conquer the mountains until 67 when it was too late. 
Israel is inherently vulnerable because of this. They picked a very bad site for their national experiment.
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rfOpioIFZAU/0.jpg
In order to rectify it they have to run apartheid.
Which is a bigger risk.

[Mike Sheehy]

And they will continue to get away with it because of their own dreadful experiences in Europe ( which leaves them beyond reproach to an extent) and because the no US administration can afford to reel them in.

It does not leave them beyond reproach by any means but they definitely have justification for their paranoia, especially in regards to Europe.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-28335358

People must not forget this no matter how unpopular that stance is to some people, especially on here.

The danger is that Israeli behavior leads to a resurgence in anti Semitism.

Jewish history is very sad but the Israelis  have inflicted an awful lot of unnecessary pain on the Palestinians.
It would be better to just give the Palestinians a state and try to live in the future rather than the past.

You have the cart before the horse. You can't leave the past behind if it keeps following you. If there is anti-Semitism in response to Israeli action it is more a case of pre-exsiting attitudes being exposed rather than "new" anti-semitism. Its like the "quenelle". People
can say whatever they want about it being an "anti-establishment" symbol. Right thinking people see through that. Wrt the middle east, Hamas  and the likes of Ahmadinejad are very effective at exploiting and contributing to this form of sectarian hatred


The only way there will be peace IMO is if the international community steps in to restrain the Israelis BUT , at the same time, ensures their security. By ensuring their security you effectively call their bluff. If its "land for peace" then give them the peace and they must give back the land, they will have no excuses after that. If they step out of line after that then I'd support bombing them into the Mediterranean. But you must be as equally ruthless with Hamas as well as the other Arab neighbours.

The problem is that the international community probably wont do this in which case the Israelies will be neither protected nor restrained and all the inevitable tit-for-tat escalations will continue.

The problem is that Israel is on the coastal plan and the Palestinians are confined to Gaza and the mountains. It's very like the colonial experience in tyrone. The shit land was in the mountains. And they didn't have time to conquer the mountains until 67 when it was too late. 
Israel is inherently vulnerable because of this. They picked a very bad site for their national experiment.
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rfOpioIFZAU/0.jpg
In order to rectify it they have to run apartheid.
Which is a bigger risk.

They did not "pick" the site. They consider it their homeland in the same way that Palestinians consider it their homeland. By continuing to make these statements the clear implication is that they don't have a right to live there.

As for the original partition. Take that up with the UN. As long as both sides agree to return to the original borders (with whatever mutual land swaps that are negotiated) then it does not matter about the terrain. As far as I am concerned that would be a problem for the international community or whoever is tasked with maintaining the peace. If they want an end to the conflict then they must take on this responsibility.

[seafoid]

And they will continue to get away with it because of their own dreadful experiences in Europe ( which leaves them beyond reproach to an extent) and because the no US administration can afford to reel them in.

It does not leave them beyond reproach by any means but they definitely have justification for their paranoia, especially in regards to Europe.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-28335358

People must not forget this no matter how unpopular that stance is to some people, especially on here.

The danger is that Israeli behavior leads to a resurgence in anti Semitism.

Jewish history is very sad but the Israelis  have inflicted an awful lot of unnecessary pain on the Palestinians.
It would be better to just give the Palestinians a state and try to live in the future rather than the past.

You have the cart before the horse. You can't leave the past behind if it keeps following you. If there is anti-Semitism in response to Israeli action it is more a case of pre-exsiting attitudes being exposed rather than "new" anti-semitism. Its like the "quenelle". People
can say whatever they want about it being an "anti-establishment" symbol. Right thinking people see through that. Wrt the middle east, Hamas  and the likes of Ahmadinejad are very effective at exploiting and contributing to this form of sectarian hatred


The only way there will be peace IMO is if the international community steps in to restrain the Israelis BUT , at the same time, ensures their security. By ensuring their security you effectively call their bluff. If its "land for peace" then give them the peace and they must give back the land, they will have no excuses after that. If they step out of line after that then I'd support bombing them into the Mediterranean. But you must be as equally ruthless with Hamas as well as the other Arab neighbours.

The problem is that the international community probably wont do this in which case the Israelies will be neither protected nor restrained and all the inevitable tit-for-tat escalations will continue.

The problem is that Israel is on the coastal plan and the Palestinians are confined to Gaza and the mountains. It's very like the colonial experience in tyrone. The shit land was in the mountains. And they didn't have time to conquer the mountains until 67 when it was too late. 
Israel is inherently vulnerable because of this. They picked a very bad site for their national experiment.
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rfOpioIFZAU/0.jpg
In order to rectify it they have to run apartheid.
Which is a bigger risk.

They did not "pick" the site. They consider it their homeland in the same way that Palestinians consider it their homeland. By continuing to make these statements the clear implication is that they don't have a right to live there.

As for the original partition. Take that up with the UN. As long as both sides agree to return to the original borders (with whatever mutual land swaps that are negotiated) then it does not matter about the terrain. As far as I am concerned that would be a problem for the international community or whoever is tasked with maintaining the peace. If they want an end to the conflict then they must take on this responsibility.

they had been looking at Paraguay and Uganda too
it was easier to dispossess the Palestinians.
In the final analysis the religious link took precedence over the security angle.
Which was not rational. 

[muppet]

Trish Regan‏@trish_regan  2m
Breaking:  Israel begins ground operation in #Gaza.  Live pictures now of heavy artillery fire lighting up to sky.  Watch live @BloombergTV

The hungry lions have been let into the creche, in the name of peace of course.

[seafoid]

Trish Regan‏@trish_regan  2m
Breaking:  Israel begins ground operation in #Gaza.  Live pictures now of heavy artillery fire lighting up to sky.  Watch live @BloombergTV

The hungry lions have been let into the creche, in the name of peace of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAlNrtcPCLw

[muppet]

http://www.worldbulletin.net/africa/140840/chile-to-freeze-trade-talks-with-israel-over-gaza-bombing

[imtommygunn]

It seems they won't be happy until they obliterate the place and everyone in it. Shocking.

What has Obama got to say? The lack of action by britain, america etc is shocking.