The Palestine thread

[Mike Sheehy]

I think real progress would be to help you get over your hatred of your Israeli work colleagues. I think that would boost your productivity no end.

[glens abu]

Don't want to get involved in the tit for tat row on this thread but think its a terrible situation in Gaza at present and the international community needs to do something .This is a list of the dead over the past few days

Updated 5:52 pm: The Gaza health ministry has released the names and ages of 41 Palestinians killed so far in the besieged strip since Israel began its relentless assault early Tuesday. Among those killed, 13 were aged 16 or younger. The youngest victim, 18-month-old Mohammed Malakiyeh, was killed along with his 27-year-old mother. The oldest victim, 80-year-old Naifeh Farjallah, was killed in an air strike on the town of Moghraqa, southwest of Gaza City.

The single deadliest strike killed eight people Tuesday in southern Gaza when Israel bombed the Hamad family home.

Al-Akhbar will update the list as new information is released.

Tuesday, July 8:
1. Mohammed Sha'aban, 24, was killed in a bombing of his car in Gaza City.
2. Ahmad Sha'aban, 30, died in the same bombing.
3. Khadir al-Bashiliki, 45, died in the same bombing.
4. Rashad Yaseen, 27, was killed in a bombing of the Nusseirat refugee camp in central Gaza.
5. Riad Mohammed Kawareh, 50, was killed in a bombing of his family's home in Khan Younis.
6. Seraj Ayad Abed al-A'al, 8, was wounded in the same bombing and succumbed to his injuries on Tuesday evening.
7. Mohammed Ayman Ashour, 15, died in the same bombing.
8. Bakr Mohammed Joudah, 22, died in the same bombing.
9. Ammar Mohammed Joudah, 26, died in the same bombing.
10. Hussein Yousef Kawareh, 13, died in the same bombing.
11. Mohammed Ibrahim Kawareh, 50, died in the same bombing.
12. Bassim Salim Kawareh, 10, died in the same bombing.
13. Mousa Habib, 16, from Gaza City's al-Shujaiyah neighborhood, was killed along with his 22-year old cousin while the pair were riding a motorcycle.
14. Mohammed Habib, 22, was killed with Mousa Habib.
15. Sakr Aysh al-Ajouri, 22, was killed in an attack on Jabaliyah, in northern Gaza.
16. Ahmad Na'el Mehdi, 16, from Gaza City's Sheikh Radwan neighborhood, was killed in a bombing that wounded two of his friends.
17. Hafiz Mohammed Hamad, 30, an Islamic Jihad commander, was killed in the bombing of his home in Beit Hanoun, along with five of his family members.
18. Ibrahim Mohammed Hamad, 26, died in the same bombing.
19. Mehdi Mohammed Hamad, 46, died in the same bombing.
20. Fawzia Khalil Hamad, 62, died in the same bombing.
21. Dunia Mehdi Hamad, 16, died in the same bombing.
22. Suha Hamad, 25, died in the same bombing.
23. Suleiman Salman Abu Soaween, 22

Wednesday, July 9:
24. Abdelhadi Jamaat al-Sufi, 24, was killed in a bombing near the Rafah crossing.
25. Naifeh Farjallah, 80, was killed in an airstrike on the town of Moghraqa, southwest of Gaza City.
26. Abdelnasser Abu Kweek, 60, was killed in the bombing of Gaza's central governorate along with his son.
27. Khaled Abu Kweek, 31, Abdelnasser Abu Kweek's son, was killed in the same bombing.
28. Amir Areef, 13, died in a bombing in Sha'af.
29. Mohammed Malkiyeh, one and a half years old, died in a bombing along with his mother and a young man.
30. Amniyeh Malkiyeh, 27, Mohammed Malkiyeh's mother, died in the same bombing.
31. Hatem Abu Salem, 28, died in the same bombing.
32. Mohammed Khaled al-Nimri, 22
33. Sahar Hamdan, 40, died in the bombing of her home in Beit Hanoun.
34. Ibrahim Masri, 14, Sahar Hamdan's son, was killed in the same bombing.
35. Unknown
36. Sumoud al-Nawasra, a mother, was killed in a bombing along with her two children.
37. Mohammed Khalaf al-Nawasra, 4, arrived at the hospital "in shreds."
38. Nidal Khalaf al-Nawasra, a child of unreported age, died along with Mohammed and Sumoud.
39. Salah Awwad al-Nawasra, was killed in the same bombing. His body was found under the rubble of the house.
40. Amal Youssef Abdel Ghafour
41. Ranim Jawde Abdel Ghafour, a young girl

[Itchy]

What can be said glens other than the Israelis are barbarian tramps. Unfortunately nothing will be done.

[glens abu]

What can be said glens other than the Israelis are barbarian tramps. Unfortunately nothing will be done.

Shocking and since I posted that the death toll has risen to 52.

[whitey]

So does anyone have a solution that would be even mildly palatable to both sides?


I'm genuinely interested to know what people think.

Did they ever come close to some kind of lasting peace?

If they did what did it look like, and what scuppered the deal?

What would it take to get back close to that scenario?

We could spend a decade on here arguing and nothing will change.

Both sides need to look into their souls and decide whether they want peace or war!!

[seafoid]

So does anyone have a solution that would be even mildly palatable to both sides?
I'm genuinely interested to know what people think.
Did they ever come close to some kind of lasting peace?
If they did what did it look like, and what scuppered the deal?
What would it take to get back close to that scenario?
We could spend a decade on here arguing and nothing will change.
Both sides need to look into their souls and decide whether they want peace or war!!

Bring Hamas and Israel to the ICC
The Americans will eventually ditch Israel anyway.

[seafoid]

Israel has no exit strategy this time around. Normally they could ask Egypt or Turkey but they aren't interested.
They attack Gaza every so often to let off steam but once they start the killing they need some way to stop it before they lose the PR war.
It's really pointless.  They are never going to get the people in Gaza to accept that what they are doing is just.

[seafoid]

The rules of Israel's game in Gaza are weird. As long as the Israelis say the deaths were not intentional everything is fine.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.603679
"Both morality and the rule of law demand equal treatment of all murders. They also demand an acknowledgment of the difference between the deliberate murder of innocent civilians and the legitimate military actions of a government seeking to protect its citizens, even when those military actions cause unavoidable civilian casualties among the human shields widely employed by Israel's enemies. "

So 3 dead settlers are different. I don't know how you would go about explaining that to Palestinians.
They don't call dead Gazans civilians either

And they drop something on the roof to tell the targets that death is arriving. It's like the Passover story from the bible with the angel of death. Beyond parody.   

I guess it all makes sense in Hebrew.


http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.604128

Eight noncombatants, all members of the Kaware family, were killed Tuesday in an Israel Air Force strike on their home in the Gaza Strip city of Khan Yunis. According to a preliminary investigation conducted by the Israel Defense Forces, the results of which were released on Wednesday, the family returned prematurely to the home after being warned by the IDF that it would be targeted. The Israel Air Force said the deaths were not intentional.
The IDF says the home was the residence of Odeh Kaware, Hamas' Khan Yunis company commander, and served as his headquarters. According to the preliminary investigation, after Israeli security forces informed family members by phone that the house was going to be bombed, they left the house. Then, in what the IAF calls "the knock on the roof," a small missile, without an explosive warhead, was fired onto the building's roof in order to underline the seriousness of the warning.


Apparently the family members began returning to the house just as the larger missile, meant to destroy the home, was fired. "There was nothing to be done, the munition was in the air and could not be diverted," a senior air force officer said. "Although you see [the family members] running back into the house, there was no way to divert the missile," he said.

Palestinian sources said eight people were killed and 25 wounded in the strike on the house.
A high-ranking IDF officer said on Tuesday that the defense establishment would continue to bomb the homes of senior Hamas operatives, adding that even though the IAF realizes that sometimes residents of a targeted building try to prevent the bombings by standing on the roof as human shields, "We will take down those houses."
"If these people, like those yesterday, try to confront a plane in the air, and the pilot signals [that he plans to blow up the house] – get out, because that house will fall," the officer, who was speaking on condition of anonymity, said. "

[Mike Sheehy]

As AZoffaly pointed out earlier only the presence of an external Military force that is willing to enforce the peace equally (i.e launch offensive action against any agreessors equally) would stop these kinds of escalations. Something akin to the force sent by the UN to Cyprus in act as a buffer except act as a buffer with teeth. If the UN don't do this then who is left ? The US will not bomb Israel to get them to stop and any kind of Arab League alliance are hardly going to bomb Gaza to get Hamas to stop launching rockets. Who is left after that...Europe ?

Would people be willing to send Irish troops to the region ?

[muppet]

It is hard to know which are worse, the Israeli leadership who are positively medieval in their thinking and bloodlust, or the Palestinian traitors who think launching useless rockets at Israel is a good idea.

[JimStynes]

A lot more publicity on fb about Israel. Has to be only a matter of time before someone steps in.

[Agent Orange]

[glens abu]

Great turnout tonight in West Belfast for Gaza,white line picket from Divis to bottom of Whiterock.

[Old yeller]

Great turnout tonight in West Belfast for Gaza,white line picket from Divis to bottom of Whiterock.

Not so bad, itll be all sorted by morning so

[glens abu]

Great turnout tonight in West Belfast for Gaza,white line picket from Divis to bottom of Whiterock.

Not so bad, itll be all sorted by morning so

Don't be a dick