The Palestine thread

[seafoid]

AIPAC is a Jewish lobby. Its purpose is to keep American politicians loyal to Israel.
there are lobbies but none of them have the majority of politicians doing their thing. Only the NRA gets anywhere near AIPAC

And that's down to money

Why is AIPAC so important? Because Israel is a tiny country half way around the world and normally a superpower wouldn't give it a second thought. How much political time does Laos get in DC ? 

Seafoid, you give yourself away everytime. One of THE classic signs of anti-semitism is claiming that "jews" have a disproportionate influence. You simply can't help yourself.

Refuses to make any distinction between an Israeli Lobby and jews ......check
Says the "jews" have too much influence...........................................check
makes allusions to money...............................................................check

and then, right on cue this...

Adelson is straight out of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

what is that supposed to mean ?

Also, did it ever occur to to you that Americans simply have a more positive to attitude to Israel than Europeans (which wouldn't be hard) and their politicians reflect this. Given the US involvement in WWII and the genocide that they witnessed (and fought against) it should be no surprise that they would believe in the right of Israel to exist and that it has a right to security. Don't assume for a second though, that the Palestinian cause is not championed in the US. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is endlessly debated and Israel and AIPAC all come in for robust, sustained and energetic criticism. I know this because I have lived here for the best part of 20 years. You, on the other hand, know f**k all about the US , the people or their politicians. You are just a cut'n'paste demagogue. You have a complete inability to  originate ,or process, any political viewpoint that rises above cartoon level simplicity.

Also, I want to set something straight here.... even if one assumes that the Jewish diaspora plays a role US politics...so what ? The Irish have had a huge impact on US politics. Tamany Hall ran New York for decades. The Italians also have had a huge influence. Do you ever hear about the undue influence of the Irish, Italian or Catholics ...no. That is why your anti-Semitism is so obvious Seafoid. As I have said before, it is the particularity of your obsession that makes you stand out.

Romney lost despite all the money Adelson donated. When push comes to shove more Americans put jobs before that Shangri La in the Middle East

Another example of the Americans disproving your point about being influenced...and, yet again,  proving you talk a load of shite

Yes, of course Americans have a vested interest in an apartheid state in the Middle East. Of course it's more important than domestic issues in the US. I mean why would 98 out of 100 senators not be pro Israel?

Why deny Jewish influence and Zionist money ? Is there any other way to keep Israel going ?

Here's Hillary Clinton. She'd like to be Prez in 2016
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.597401

"Former U.S. Secretary of State claims in a new memoir that the American administration made a tactical error by demanding Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to freeze construction in the settlements in 2009.
"In retrospect, our early, hard line on settlements didn't work," Clinton writes in Hard Choices, to be released next week, AP reported.
Clinton, widely estimated in Washington to vie to the presidency in 2016, writes in her memoir that the demand for a construction freeze in the West Bank only hardened the stance of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who eventually rejected negotiations because the freeze did not include East Jerusalem..."

Why would she say that? Does she need money ?
What's wrong with it? US policy in the Middle east is twisted to suit the interest of a marginal group.
And the world is not going to buy apartheid.

And all criticism is anti-Semitic, of course it is.
And your explanation for why all senior American politicians have to genuflect before AIPAC? Because that's the why.

[Mike Sheehy]

AIPAC is a Jewish lobby. Its purpose is to keep American politicians loyal to Israel.
there are lobbies but none of them have the majority of politicians doing their thing. Only the NRA gets anywhere near AIPAC

And that's down to money

Why is AIPAC so important? Because Israel is a tiny country half way around the world and normally a superpower wouldn't give it a second thought. How much political time does Laos get in DC ? 

Seafoid, you give yourself away everytime. One of THE classic signs of anti-semitism is claiming that "jews" have a disproportionate influence. You simply can't help yourself.

Refuses to make any distinction between an Israeli Lobby and jews ......check
Says the "jews" have too much influence...........................................check
makes allusions to money...............................................................check

and then, right on cue this...

Adelson is straight out of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

what is that supposed to mean ?

Also, did it ever occur to to you that Americans simply have a more positive to attitude to Israel than Europeans (which wouldn't be hard) and their politicians reflect this. Given the US involvement in WWII and the genocide that they witnessed (and fought against) it should be no surprise that they would believe in the right of Israel to exist and that it has a right to security. Don't assume for a second though, that the Palestinian cause is not championed in the US. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is endlessly debated and Israel and AIPAC all come in for robust, sustained and energetic criticism. I know this because I have lived here for the best part of 20 years. You, on the other hand, know f**k all about the US , the people or their politicians. You are just a cut'n'paste demagogue. You have a complete inability to  originate ,or process, any political viewpoint that rises above cartoon level simplicity.

Also, I want to set something straight here.... even if one assumes that the Jewish diaspora plays a role US politics...so what ? The Irish have had a huge impact on US politics. Tamany Hall ran New York for decades. The Italians also have had a huge influence. Do you ever hear about the undue influence of the Irish, Italian or Catholics ...no. That is why your anti-Semitism is so obvious Seafoid. As I have said before, it is the particularity of your obsession that makes you stand out.

Romney lost despite all the money Adelson donated. When push comes to shove more Americans put jobs before that Shangri La in the Middle East

Another example of the Americans disproving your point about being influenced...and, yet again,  proving you talk a load of shite

Yes, of course Americans have a vested interest in an apartheid state in the Middle East. Of course it's more important than domestic issues in the US. I mean why would 98 out of 100 senators not be pro Israel?

Why deny Jewish influence and Zionist money ? Is there any other way to keep Israel going ?

Here's Hillary Clinton. She'd like to be Prez in 2016
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.597401

"Former U.S. Secretary of State claims in a new memoir that the American administration made a tactical error by demanding Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to freeze construction in the settlements in 2009.
"In retrospect, our early, hard line on settlements didn't work," Clinton writes in Hard Choices, to be released next week, AP reported.
Clinton, widely estimated in Washington to vie to the presidency in 2016, writes in her memoir that the demand for a construction freeze in the West Bank only hardened the stance of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who eventually rejected negotiations because the freeze did not include East Jerusalem..."

Why would she say that? Does she need money ?
What's wrong with it? US policy in the Middle east is twisted to suit the interest of a marginal group.
And the world is not going to buy apartheid.

And all criticism is anti-Semitic, of course it is.
And your explanation for why all senior American politicians have to genuflect before AIPAC? Because that's the why.

seafoid, what is your definition of "Apartheid" ?

[seafoid]

My definition of apartheid?

Start with the fact it is one state and there is not going to be a Palestinian state.

http://972mag.com/netanyahu-explains-how-he-stood-up-to-the-u-s-kept-building-settlements/91344/

"Netanyahu explains how he stood up to the U.S., kept building settlements
'Peace talks? What peace talks,' the Israeli prime minister jokes with supporters from his party.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu boasted of his settlement building achievements in a recent meeting with young Likud supporters. Responding to a question from the audience, Netanyahu said: "I was threatened in Washington: 'not one brick' [of settlement construction] ... after five years, we built a little more than one brick..."
Asked "about peace talks with the Palestinians," Netanyahu reportedly replied, "about the – what?" to which the audience responded by breaking out into laughter"


The status quo :

Roads for Jews and separate roads for non Jews
Water allocation for Jews and separate allocations for non Jews
Civil law for Jews, military law for non Jews
Social welfare for West Bank resident Jews, none for West Bank resident non Jews
Government spending per head on Jews and on Jews
Land allocation - Jews have property rights, Palestinians don't . 40% of the West Bank "belongs" to the Jewish settlements 
housing- Jews get free housing, Palestinians get nothing
Education spending - 30 to 1 
Employment - Jews get access to the Israeli jobs market, Palestinians don't

It sucks. It's apartheid.

[Mike Sheehy]

My definition of apartheid?

Start with the fact it is one state and there is not going to be a Palestinian state.

http://972mag.com/netanyahu-explains-how-he-stood-up-to-the-u-s-kept-building-settlements/91344/

"Netanyahu explains how he stood up to the U.S., kept building settlements
'Peace talks? What peace talks,' the Israeli prime minister jokes with supporters from his party.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu boasted of his settlement building achievements in a recent meeting with young Likud supporters. Responding to a question from the audience, Netanyahu said: "I was threatened in Washington: 'not one brick' [of settlement construction] ... after five years, we built a little more than one brick..."
Asked "about peace talks with the Palestinians," Netanyahu reportedly replied, "about the – what?" to which the audience responded by breaking out into laughter"


The status quo :

Roads for Jews and separate roads for non Jews
Water allocation for Jews and separate allocations for non Jews
Civil law for Jews, military law for non Jews
Social welfare for West Bank resident Jews, none for West Bank resident non Jews
Government spending per head on Jews and on Jews
Land allocation - Jews have property rights, Palestinians don't . 40% of the West Bank "belongs" to the Jewish settlements 
housing- Jews get free housing, Palestinians get nothing
Education spending - 30 to 1 
Employment - Jews get access to the Israeli jobs market, Palestinians don't

It sucks. It's apartheid.

No, you didn't answer the question I asked you. You are not going to get any argument from me about discrimination against Palestinians. There are legitimate arguments for the case of Apartheid in Israel but there are also valid arguments that equating what is happening in Israel to South Africa is wrong.

What I want to know, specificially, is your strict definition of the word "Apartheid" .I am especially interested in the constitutional aspects of your answer. I just need it for future reference, that's all, so that I can check you for consistency.

[seafoid]

My definition of apartheid?

Start with the fact it is one state and there is not going to be a Palestinian state.

http://972mag.com/netanyahu-explains-how-he-stood-up-to-the-u-s-kept-building-settlements/91344/

"Netanyahu explains how he stood up to the U.S., kept building settlements
'Peace talks? What peace talks,' the Israeli prime minister jokes with supporters from his party.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu boasted of his settlement building achievements in a recent meeting with young Likud supporters. Responding to a question from the audience, Netanyahu said: "I was threatened in Washington: 'not one brick' [of settlement construction] ... after five years, we built a little more than one brick..."
Asked "about peace talks with the Palestinians," Netanyahu reportedly replied, "about the – what?" to which the audience responded by breaking out into laughter"


The status quo :

Roads for Jews and separate roads for non Jews
Water allocation for Jews and separate allocations for non Jews
Civil law for Jews, military law for non Jews
Social welfare for West Bank resident Jews, none for West Bank resident non Jews
Government spending per head on Jews and on Jews
Land allocation - Jews have property rights, Palestinians don't . 40% of the West Bank "belongs" to the Jewish settlements 
housing- Jews get free housing, Palestinians get nothing
Education spending - 30 to 1 
Employment - Jews get access to the Israeli jobs market, Palestinians don't

It sucks. It's apartheid.

No, you didn't answer the question I asked you. You are not going to get any argument from me about discrimination against Palestinians. There are legitimate arguments for the case of Apartheid in Israel but there are also valid arguments that equating what is happening in Israel to South Africa is wrong.

What I want to know, specificially, is your strict definition of the word "Apartheid" .I am especially interested in the constitutional aspects of your answer. I just need it for future reference, that's all, so that I can check you for consistency.

Israel doesn't have a constitution.

"I just need it for future reference, that's all, so that I can check you for consistency".

You are so out of your depth.

You are just a cut'n'paste demagogue. You have a complete inability to  originate ,or process, any political viewpoint that rises above cartoon level simplicity.

You say that because you can't credibly argue your position. You watch TV and what I say doesn't  match what they tell you on TV and you want to express that what you see on TV is right but the words don't come out. So you bring out the old cut n paste argument. You can't be serious if you cut n paste. You can't have a political viewpoint if you bring in ideas from other places that they don't use on CNN or RTE or whatever. 

Another example of the Americans disproving your point about being influenced...and, yet again,  proving you talk a load of shite

This is another interesting one. I'm talking about a system that goes back over 50 years. American policy in the Near East has been driven by Zionists and oil people. Rich Jews buy political influence in return for the right to define the US position on Israel.

Take UN resolution 242

http://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1964-68v19/d451
451. Telegram From the Department of State to the Embassy in Israel11. Source: National Archives and Records Administration, RG 59, Central Files 1967–69, POL 27 ARAB–ISR. Confidential. Drafted by Lambrakis, cleared by Atherton, and approved by Battle. Repeated to Amman, Beirut, Jerusalem, Jidda, London, Moscow, Paris, and USUN.
Washington, September 29, 1967, 1952Z.
46190. 1. Ambassador Harman and Minister Evron called on Assistant Secretary Battle September 28 for tour d'horizon. In reply to query, Battle repeated assurances given Israelis in New York that Secretary's meeting with Jordanian Foreign Minister22. <b>Rusk met with Jordanian Foreign Minister Muhammad Adib Al-'Ameri on September 26 in New York. A memorandum of the conversation is ibid., POL JORDAN–US. took routine course and produced no surprises. Could not explain basis for reportedly optimistic statement made by Jordanian to press following meeting. </b> (2) Battle referred to indirect report of unknown reliability through third Embassy sources in Cairo to effect high Foreign Ministry official now regretted that US–USSR draft resolution had not been adopted by Arabs in the first place. Battle offered up his own estimate that Soviets have not entirely moved away from that draft but wish to avoid taking lead at present in UNGA and are concentrating on rebuilding their position with Arabs. They may eventually move back to where they were at end of special GA but no evidence yet. Harman agreed Soviet tactic seems to be give full public backing to Arabs and not get out in front. He recalled GOI feeling that US–USSR draft open to varying interpretations.
4. Moving on to question of announced establishment Israeli settlements on West Bank and Syrian border,33. Press reports that Eshkol had announced plans for establishment of Israeli settlements in the occupied territories near Baniyas in the Golan Heights, at Etzion between Bethleham and Hebron, and at Beit Haarava on the northwest shore of the Dead Sea are summarized in telegram 43163 to Rio de Janeiro for Eugene Rostow, September 25. (Ibid., POL 27 ARAB–ISR) <b> Battle said he wished to stress two points. First is need to avoid airing differences of opinion between us in public press. On other hand, in all honesty it is extremely important GOI actions during this period not provide ammunition for those at UN who would interpret GOI position as hardening in direction of territorial acquisition rather than negotiated settlement. </b>

This has  got nothing to do with Dick and Jane's sympathy for what the Germans did in WW2. It's why there were all those US vetoes at the UN. This is raw power and how money works in US politics. 
Israel decided to settle the West Bank well before 1967 and it's too big to fail.



And all you can say it anti-Semitism and throw in the ad homs

[give her dixie]

Horrors of the occupation go way beyond the settlements

Gideon Levy 08/06/14

Another Israeli "Price Tag" attack has been launched: An additional 1,500 settlement housing units have been announced in declared retaliation for the creation of a Palestinian unity government.

The mask was ripped off long ago, and Israel is no longer trying to hide that settlements are no more than a punishment. But they aren't the real punishment. The real punishment is the continued tyranny. The settlements are a measure of Israeli intentions; they were built to eternalize the status quo and destroy any chances for agreements. But the real punishment is the insufferable injustices of the occupation, which are actually less discussed.

We must stop talking about the settlements. The amount of settlers reached critical mass long ago, making the situation irreversible. Another 1,500 housing units won't change much. Constructing them only proves that Israel intends to continue its colonialist endeavors, but housing units themselves are not the heart of the issue. The real problem is the totalitarian regime in the West Bank. It is the Palestinians' biggest problem, as well as that of the Israelis, as their nation has become a false democracy.

While it's true that without the settlements, the occupation would have ended, as the settlement-free occupation of southern Lebanon did. It's true that if there were far fewer settlers, as there were in the Gaza Strip, Israel perhaps could have also disengaged from the West Bank. But Gaza proved that disengagement is not sufficient to bring about justice: Gaza has become a prison, and no one even discusses the prisoners' fate anymore.

Ceasing settlement construction, as it is the largest Zionist endeavor since the creation of Israel, would be a gesture of good faith. But without total evacuation of the settlements (which is completely unrealistic) and the creation of a just government in the West Bank, the essence of the situation will remain unchanged.

Thus the international opposition need not focus on the settlements in the West Bank, rather it should deal with the way in which they are ruled. The international community should focus on the fact that there are two peoples here, one with every right and the other with none aside from the right to be occupied. Stop condemning Israel for each new apartment and caravan. Israel should be condemned and punished for creating insufferable life under occupation, for the fact that a country that claims to be among the enlightened nations continues abusing an entire people, day and night.

Talk about the helpless fishermen in Gaza fired upon by gunships; talk about the children brutally arrested in the middle of the night; talk about the countless detentions without trial, about the families torn between Gaza and the West Bank, between Jerusalem and Ramallah. Talk about the light Israeli finger on the trigger; talk about the discriminatory courts, the daily dispossession, house demolition and destruction of villages; talk about the pasturelands turned into firing zones only to dishearten residents and expel them; talk about the soldiers who shoot out of boredom and the police officers who make arrests just because they can.

Talk about the inherent apartheid in the West Bank, and the terrible chances facing any Palestinian child looking to build a life, or even just visit the beach, even if it's only a short distance from his home. Talk about the Gazans who cannot export their goods, nor go anywhere – not to study, not to go to the hospital, not to visit family members or work outside their prison, the largest in the world. Talk about the thousands of prisoners, some of them political prisoners, who face inhumane discrimination, as opposed to their Jewish counterparts. Talk about the bureaucracy of occupation, another institutionalized method of abuse. Talk about the checkpoints, and the overwhelming injustices. Talk about the horrors of occupation.

All of these things are completely unrelated to a few hundred more settlement housing units. Every decent citizen, both in Israel and around the world, should cry out against these things. These cries aren't heard enough.

[seafoid]

Horrors of the occupation go way beyond the settlements

Gideon Levy 08/06/14

Another Israeli "Price Tag" attack has been launched: An additional 1,500 settlement housing units have been announced in declared retaliation for the creation of a Palestinian unity government.

The mask was ripped off long ago, and Israel is no longer trying to hide that settlements are no more than a punishment. But they aren't the real punishment. The real punishment is the continued tyranny. The settlements are a measure of Israeli intentions; they were built to eternalize the status quo and destroy any chances for agreements. But the real punishment is the insufferable injustices of the occupation, which are actually less discussed.

We must stop talking about the settlements. The amount of settlers reached critical mass long ago, making the situation irreversible. Another 1,500 housing units won't change much. Constructing them only proves that Israel intends to continue its colonialist endeavors, but housing units themselves are not the heart of the issue. The real problem is the totalitarian regime in the West Bank. It is the Palestinians' biggest problem, as well as that of the Israelis, as their nation has become a false democracy.

While it's true that without the settlements, the occupation would have ended, as the settlement-free occupation of southern Lebanon did. It's true that if there were far fewer settlers, as there were in the Gaza Strip, Israel perhaps could have also disengaged from the West Bank. But Gaza proved that disengagement is not sufficient to bring about justice: Gaza has become a prison, and no one even discusses the prisoners' fate anymore.

Ceasing settlement construction, as it is the largest Zionist endeavor since the creation of Israel, would be a gesture of good faith. But without total evacuation of the settlements (which is completely unrealistic) and the creation of a just government in the West Bank, the essence of the situation will remain unchanged.

Thus the international opposition need not focus on the settlements in the West Bank, rather it should deal with the way in which they are ruled. The international community should focus on the fact that there are two peoples here, one with every right and the other with none aside from the right to be occupied. Stop condemning Israel for each new apartment and caravan. Israel should be condemned and punished for creating insufferable life under occupation, for the fact that a country that claims to be among the enlightened nations continues abusing an entire people, day and night.

Talk about the helpless fishermen in Gaza fired upon by gunships; talk about the children brutally arrested in the middle of the night; talk about the countless detentions without trial, about the families torn between Gaza and the West Bank, between Jerusalem and Ramallah. Talk about the light Israeli finger on the trigger; talk about the discriminatory courts, the daily dispossession, house demolition and destruction of villages; talk about the pasturelands turned into firing zones only to dishearten residents and expel them; talk about the soldiers who shoot out of boredom and the police officers who make arrests just because they can.

Talk about the inherent apartheid in the West Bank, and the terrible chances facing any Palestinian child looking to build a life, or even just visit the beach, even if it's only a short distance from his home. Talk about the Gazans who cannot export their goods, nor go anywhere – not to study, not to go to the hospital, not to visit family members or work outside their prison, the largest in the world. Talk about the thousands of prisoners, some of them political prisoners, who face inhumane discrimination, as opposed to their Jewish counterparts. Talk about the bureaucracy of occupation, another institutionalized method of abuse. Talk about the checkpoints, and the overwhelming injustices. Talk about the horrors of occupation.

All of these things are completely unrelated to a few hundred more settlement housing units. Every decent citizen, both in Israel and around the world, should cry out against these things. These cries aren't heard enough.

And it's a long way from the shite in Israel's declaration of "Independence"


: "[Israel] will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture."

[Mike Sheehy]

...and yet again the anti-Semite won't give a direct answer to a direct question....just more ranting about "rich jews" and their nefarious plots   

[seafoid]

...and yet again the anti-Semite won't give a direct answer to a direct question....just more ranting about "rich jews" and their nefarious plots   

Go on, say Hitler

Apartheid is a Government run system of racial or religious  segregation enforced through legislation designed to keep one group in privilege which would not be possible if the place were run as a democracy. The oppressed in the system are denied rights and privileges open to those chosen. It's a brutal way to run a Jewish state, really.

how's that for you?
Meanwhile

http://www.adsagainstapartheid.com/

In Boston

The messages are getting through in Yankstan.

[seafoid]

Barroso tells Israel to cop on

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.597487#

"If no peace negotiations take place and no progress is made, the EU and Israel will have to address contentious and divisive issues, including further acceleration of the EU's policy on disengagement from the settlements. On these matters - which touch upon core values held dear throughout the EU - the Union will be compelled to act in accordance with its beliefs and its rules.

In the long term, security and prosperity can only be sustained if the right makes the might and not the other way round. There will always be those who resist peace, but for leaders on both sides, even if it may seem politically safer to keep the status quo, it is important to put the strategic interests of their countries and their people above short-term considerations. I am firmly convinced that ultimately the path of negotiations and of a two state solution is the only one that will lead to a secure and prosperous Israel

[Mike Sheehy]

...and yet again the anti-Semite won't give a direct answer to a direct question....just more ranting about "rich jews" and their nefarious plots   

Go on, say Hitler

Apartheid is a Government run system of racial or religious  segregation enforced through legislation designed to keep one group in privilege which would not be possible if the place were run as a democracy. The oppressed in the system are denied rights and privileges open to those chosen. It's a brutal way to run a Jewish state, really.

how's that for you?

Well done. Its very annoying that it takes you so much time and multiple requests to answer the simplest most direct of questions  Your evasivness is quite staggering.

[seafoid]

...and yet again the anti-Semite won't give a direct answer to a direct question....just more ranting about "rich jews" and their nefarious plots   

Go on, say Hitler

Apartheid is a Government run system of racial or religious  segregation enforced through legislation designed to keep one group in privilege which would not be possible if the place were run as a democracy. The oppressed in the system are denied rights and privileges open to those chosen. It's a brutal way to run a Jewish state, really.

how's that for you?

Well done. Its very annoying that it takes you so much time and multiple requests to answer the simplest most direct of questions  Your evasivness is quite staggering.

your lack of any arguments other than antisemitism and your reliance on ad homs and pointless online geegaws say so much about what you have to add to the discussion.

I reckon young American jews will slowly  turn away from Zionism.  What do you think?

[Mike Sheehy]

...and yet again the anti-Semite won't give a direct answer to a direct question....just more ranting about "rich jews" and their nefarious plots   

Go on, say Hitler

Apartheid is a Government run system of racial or religious  segregation enforced through legislation designed to keep one group in privilege which would not be possible if the place were run as a democracy. The oppressed in the system are denied rights and privileges open to those chosen. It's a brutal way to run a Jewish state, really.

how's that for you?

Well done. Its very annoying that it takes you so much time and multiple requests to answer the simplest most direct of questions  Your evasivness is quite staggering.

your lack of any arguments other than antisemitism and your reliance on ad homs and pointless online geegaws say so much about what you have to add to the discussion.

I reckon young American jews will slowly  turn away from Zionism.  What do you think?

Calling someone an anti-semite that is quite clearly an anti-semite and telling such a person how despicable you think they are does not qualify as an ad-hominem attack. It is simply telling the truth.

As to your question, I think that as long as anti-semitism exists then young American Jews will feel the need to support Israel even if they have fundamental disagreements with its policies. Basically,as I have said before and I will say it again. You are the problem. If people like you and GHD ceased to exist then the reason for the state of Israel would cease to exist. You are are personally , directly responsible for the state of Israel as it exists today.

[seafoid]

...and yet again the anti-Semite won't give a direct answer to a direct question....just more ranting about "rich jews" and their nefarious plots   

Go on, say Hitler

Apartheid is a Government run system of racial or religious  segregation enforced through legislation designed to keep one group in privilege which would not be possible if the place were run as a democracy. The oppressed in the system are denied rights and privileges open to those chosen. It's a brutal way to run a Jewish state, really.

how's that for you?

Well done. Its very annoying that it takes you so much time and multiple requests to answer the simplest most direct of questions  Your evasivness is quite staggering.

your lack of any arguments other than antisemitism and your reliance on ad homs and pointless online geegaws say so much about what you have to add to the discussion.

I reckon young American jews will slowly  turn away from Zionism.  What do you think?

Calling someone an anti-semite that is quite clearly an anti-semite and telling such a person how despicable you think they are does not qualify as an ad-hominem attack. It is simply telling the truth.

As to your question, I think that as long as anti-semitism exists then young American Jews will feel the need to support Israel even if they have fundamental disagreements with its policies. Basically,as I have said before and I will say it again. You are the problem. If people like you and GHD ceased to exist then the reason for the state of Israel would cease to exist. You are are personally , directly responsible for the state of Israel as it exists today.

you are nuts.

Genuine anti-Semitism is basically dead. Jews are treated the same as everyone else in the West.
American Jews are raised differently to Israeli Jews. They tend to be better educated and more concerned about moral issues as they don't grow up brainwashed.

I'll be here following GAA for the next few decades so we can watch the mess develop.

[Mike Sheehy]

you are nuts.

Genuine anti-Semitism is basically dead. Jews are treated the same as everyone else in the West.
American Jews are raised differently to Israeli Jews. They tend to be better educated and more concerned about moral issues as they don't grow up brainwashed.

I'll be here following GAA for the next few decades so we can watch the mess develop.

Nuts eh ? what's that you were saying about ad-homs ?

with respect to American jews being more concerned about moral issues , perhaps you could learn something from them  A sense of balance and fairness is a fundamental property of morality. Your complete lack of balance and fairness is symptomatic of your complete amorality.

Also, just referring back to the previous post, lets be clear about one thing with respect to "labelling" and ad-homs . You are the one who has set the tone of to the Israeli/Palestinian debate on this board for years by your constant labelling of anyone that disagrees with your extremist views on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict as a "zionist". As you sow , so shall you reap......

Now, what exactly do you mean by "Genuine anti-Semitism is basically dead" ? That is an amazing statement to make.Its as crazy as saying genuine racism is dead. What is "genuine" anti-semitism as opposed to...... what ?....... "ungenuine" antisemitism ?