The Palestine thread

[Mike Sheehy]

This excellent, well balanced article by a Palestinian Student in the US sums up exactly what I have been talking about. It confirms that the greatest tragedy to befall the Palestinan cause has been its infiltration by  anti-Semites.

It happens every time I visit the U.S., and it's happened increasingly over the last five years. I say I'm Palestinian (usually after trying out the less inflammatory "I'm from Jerusalem" and then being pressed for detail). There's a pause, and then—"Oh, so... is it a problem for you that I'm Jewish?"

There it is. The assumption that because I am Palestinian, I harbor animosity toward Jews—and not just Israeli Jews, but all Jews, all the time, everywhere. It was one of the first questions I got asked when my new roommate met me at the beginning of my college career, and again as I mingled at my first-ever internship lunch. It was what made a Jewish kid switch seats and move across the room from me during a seminar—he was worried, I was later informed, about sitting next to a Palestinian. It's happened time and again, yet it still takes me by surprise.

Despite this initial hurdle, I've formed close relationships with many Jews—and that, in turn, often inspires condescension from others. It's adorable that one of my closest friends is Jewish; it's inspiring to see us eating together and making jokes. Such comments may be meant benignly, but they deftly reduce a 60-odd-year struggle for political independence to a squabble between siblings.

I try to explain, as mildly as I can, that my having Jewish friends doesn't signify the end of the grim state of affairs in the region. I point out that, historically, Arabs and Jews actually lived pretty well together. In spite of rhetoric to the contrary, the Mideast crisis isn't a case of why-can't-they-just-get-along. It isn't about ethnic differences. It isn't hummus vs. hoummous.

Sometimes, instead of a pleased-and-patronizing outsider, I find myself confronted with sneaky, lurking, real anti-Semites who unabashedly come out of the woodwork when they hear that I'm Palestinian. "Hey, wanna hear a good one?" a stranger will ask conspiratorially. I cut him off before he finishes his joke, as soon as I can tell where it's headed. "Dude," I say. "You have no idea how badly you've misread this situation."

It's not just that I get how hurtful this type of discrimination can be. As both a Palestinian and an Arab in a post-9/11 world, I've been on the receiving end of it. It's not even just because I can picture the faces of the Jews I know and love, for whom those jokes would strike deep and painfully resonant chords.

There's another reason I despise these jokes. The Jews I meet might assume that I sympathize with the bomb-wielding extremists who want to push Israel into the sea. (To be clear: I do not.) But these closet anti-Semites assume that I sympathize with a species of historically European anti-Semitism —the kind that involves jokes about Jews hoarding money and controlling the media, the kind that involves big noses and black hats, the kind that led to the Jews' persecution in the West. And those canards have nothing to do with Palestinians.

In fact, it was this very discrimination and irrational hatred that drove the need for a safe Jewish homeland, after Theodor Herzl anticipated the deadly turn the already-rampant European anti-Semitism would take. It is this continued anti-Semitism that apparently vindicates Israel's most segregationist policies, invoking fears from centuries of persecution.

Moreover, unjustified hatred of the Jewish people reduces any criticism of Israel's practices to mere bigotry. There are concrete reasons to be at odds with Israel, reasons that include arbitrary arrests, evictions, settlements, and harassment, and simply the fact that most Palestinian residents of East Jerusalem aren't recognized as voting citizens. Anti-Semitism—whether imported or home-grown—shatters those reasons into splinters of irrational fear.

To lump the Palestinian struggle—for human rights, for recognition, for nationality—in with an age-old prejudice isn't reductionist; it's downright absurd. In one fell swoop, a misguided bigot can manage to invoke the very sentiment that forced Jews out of Europe; make me, a Palestinian, part of the same anti-Semitism that led to Israel's creation; and diminish all legitimate criticism of Israel to a species of European Jew-hating. It would almost be artful, if it weren't so depressing.

When it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, misconceptions and generalizations reign supreme. Of course, that's true of any complicated political situation. But what's particular (and particularly damaging) about this case is that those misconceptions often come as much from outside the region as within it. Israeli Jews don't always expect hostility from me, as a Palestinian (in fact, they often don't). It's the Diaspora Jews, it's the people in the West who read the news, who see "Palestinian" as synonymous with "Jew-hater." But it's crucial to understand that, for any Palestinian, anti-Semitism—whether actual, perceived, or simply expected—is our worst enemy. At a very basic level, differentiating between irrational prejudice and informed criticism of Israel is what keeps Palestinian discourse legitimate.

So, to set the record straight: I'm a Palestinian, and I don't hate Jews. That's not a contradiction; it's a personal, political, and moral imperative.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/04/how-anti-jewish-jokes-hurt-the-palestinian-cause/360039/

[Itchy]

Its ironic that give her dicks and seafood are a barrier to Palestinian struggle, not an aid.

[seafoid]

Very interesting, Mike

I note another powerful institution that was sheltering dreadful abusers was defended in the same way as Israel is by people like you .
Certain priests accused people investigating child abuse in the catholic church of a conspiracy against the church. Power works the same everywhere.

Anti-Semites are now people Israel doesn't like.

[Mike Sheehy]

Very interesting, Mike

I note another powerful institution that was sheltering dreadful abusers was defended in the same way as Israel is by people like you .
Certain priests accused people investigating child abuse in the catholic church of a conspiracy against the church. Power works the same everywhere.

Anti-Semites are now people Israel doesn't like.

Yes, its remarkable the way abusers used the cover of the cloth to cover-up their true intentions. It's exactly the way anti-semites use the cover of the palestinian cause to hide their true intentions.   

[seafoid]

Very interesting, Mike

I note another powerful institution that was sheltering dreadful abusers was defended in the same way as Israel is by people like you .
Certain priests accused people investigating child abuse in the catholic church of a conspiracy against the church. Power works the same everywhere.

Anti-Semites are now people Israel doesn't like.

Yes, its remarkable the way abusers used the cover of the cloth to cover-up their true intentions. It's exactly the way anti-semites use the cover of the palestinian cause to hide their true intentions.

like treating palestinians with respect is equivalent to membership of the SS and goes against everything that judaism stands for. What are you on ?

Israel has been warned by so many jewish moderates to do the right thing and end the occupation.

[Mike Sheehy]

Very interesting, Mike

I note another powerful institution that was sheltering dreadful abusers was defended in the same way as Israel is by people like you .
Certain priests accused people investigating child abuse in the catholic church of a conspiracy against the church. Power works the same everywhere.

Anti-Semites are now people Israel doesn't like.

Yes, its remarkable the way abusers used the cover of the cloth to cover-up their true intentions. It's exactly the way anti-semites use the cover of the palestinian cause to hide their true intentions.

like treating palestinians with respect is equivalent to membership of the SS and goes against everything that judaism stands for. What are you on ?

Israel has been warned by so many jewish moderates to do the right thing and end the occupation.

And who is going to moderate you Seafoid ? That is the real question. It is interesting that it takes someone like me to chase after you relentlessly before you suddenly start talking about moderation....but,nevertheless, its progress I suppose.

Now read that article that I posted by the Palestinian student like a good lad and comment on her astute observations. I have, time and again, voiced my condemnation of the Israelis yet you have never, not once, acknowledged the truth of what I have been saying and what that Student is saying.

You can start by condemning give-her-dixies obvious links with anti-semitic extremists like Mattias Chang and the  racists over on www.barnesreview.org. If you are truly a moderate then such condemnation should be routine.

[seafoid]

Very interesting, Mike

I note another powerful institution that was sheltering dreadful abusers was defended in the same way as Israel is by people like you .
Certain priests accused people investigating child abuse in the catholic church of a conspiracy against the church. Power works the same everywhere.

Anti-Semites are now people Israel doesn't like.

Yes, its remarkable the way abusers used the cover of the cloth to cover-up their true intentions. It's exactly the way anti-semites use the cover of the palestinian cause to hide their true intentions.

like treating palestinians with respect is equivalent to membership of the SS and goes against everything that judaism stands for. What are you on ?

Israel has been warned by so many jewish moderates to do the right thing and end the occupation.

And who is going to moderate you Seafoid ? That is the real question. It is interesting that it takes someone like me to chase after you relentlessly before you suddenly start talking about moderation....but,nevertheless, its progress I suppose.

Now read that article that I posted by the Palestinian student like a good lad and comment on her astute observations. I have, time and again, voiced my condemnation of the Israelis yet you have never, not once, acknowledged the truth of what I have been saying and what that Student is saying.

You can start by condemning give-her-dixies obvious links with anti-semitic extremists like Mattias Chang and the  racists over on www.barnesreview.org. If you are truly a moderate then such condemnation should be routine.

GHD is a decent person. I don't care about barnes review. He went to Gaza to help the people who have been abandoned by Europe because of what Europe did to its Jews. He's not anti-Semitic and neither am I.

you're wasting your time trying to get a rise out of us.

Israel is a car crash. The EU has now banned chicken imports from Jewish settlements and that's just the start.
If Judaism is run by extremist right wingers it's up to ordinary Jews to reclaim the religion and reinstil the values that gave it its longevity.

[seafoid]

Very interesting, Mike

I note another powerful institution that was sheltering dreadful abusers was defended in the same way as Israel is by people like you .
Certain priests accused people investigating child abuse in the catholic church of a conspiracy against the church. Power works the same everywhere.

Anti-Semites are now people Israel doesn't like.

Yes, its remarkable the way abusers used the cover of the cloth to cover-up their true intentions. It's exactly the way anti-semites use the cover of the palestinian cause to hide their true intentions.

like treating palestinians with respect is equivalent to membership of the SS and goes against everything that judaism stands for. What are you on ?

Israel has been warned by so many jewish moderates to do the right thing and end the occupation.

And who is going to moderate you Seafoid ? That is the real question. It is interesting that it takes someone like me to chase after you relentlessly before you suddenly start talking about moderation....but,nevertheless, its progress I suppose.

Now read that article that I posted by the Palestinian student like a good lad and comment on her astute observations. I have, time and again, voiced my condemnation of the Israelis yet you have never, not once, acknowledged the truth of what I have been saying and what that Student is saying.

You can start by condemning give-her-dixies obvious links with anti-semitic extremists like Mattias Chang and the  racists over on www.barnesreview.org. If you are truly a moderate then such condemnation should be routine.

Have you discussed this with your therapist  ?

[seafoid]

Here's how ludicrous Jewish politics is in 2014

Major Jewish lobbies in the US oppose divestment of oil and gas companies to fight climate change because it might lead to divestment against Israel.

Why? Because the whole world is against the occupation.
and there are only a few muppets outside the States who buy the notion that opposition to the occupation is anti-Semitic.

Luckily we have one here on the board.

http://forward.com/articles/198655/jewish-groups-push-back-in-fight-for-divestment-fr/?p=all

[Mike Sheehy]

Very interesting, Mike

I note another powerful institution that was sheltering dreadful abusers was defended in the same way as Israel is by people like you .
Certain priests accused people investigating child abuse in the catholic church of a conspiracy against the church. Power works the same everywhere.

Anti-Semites are now people Israel doesn't like.

Yes, its remarkable the way abusers used the cover of the cloth to cover-up their true intentions. It's exactly the way anti-semites use the cover of the palestinian cause to hide their true intentions.

like treating palestinians with respect is equivalent to membership of the SS and goes against everything that judaism stands for. What are you on ?

Israel has been warned by so many jewish moderates to do the right thing and end the occupation.

And who is going to moderate you Seafoid ? That is the real question. It is interesting that it takes someone like me to chase after you relentlessly before you suddenly start talking about moderation....but,nevertheless, its progress I suppose.

Now read that article that I posted by the Palestinian student like a good lad and comment on her astute observations. I have, time and again, voiced my condemnation of the Israelis yet you have never, not once, acknowledged the truth of what I have been saying and what that Student is saying.

You can start by condemning give-her-dixies obvious links with anti-semitic extremists like Mattias Chang and the  racists over on www.barnesreview.org. If you are truly a moderate then such condemnation should be routine.

GHD is a decent person. I don't care about barnes review. He went to Gaza to help the people who have been abandoned by Europe because of what Europe did to its Jews. He's not anti-Semitic and neither am I.

you're wasting your time trying to get a rise out of us.

Israel is a car crash. The EU has now banned chicken imports from Jewish settlements and that's just the start.
If Judaism is run by extremist right wingers it's up to ordinary Jews to reclaim the religion and reinstil the values that gave it its longevity.

"Decent" people don't fraternize with nazis. It is astonishing that you will not condemn this site and GHD's association with it.

As for this

If Judaism is run by extremist right wingers

wow...just wow...you are now stating that an entire religion is run by extremist right wingers.

[give her dixie]

Israel takes the issue of boycotts very serious.......

"Anti-Boycott Law" - Prevention of Damage to the State of Israel through Boycott

The Anti-Boycott Law, passed on 11 July 2011, prohibits the public promotion of academic, economic or cultural boycott by Israeli citizens and organizations against Israeli institutions or illegal Israeli settlements in the West Bank. It enables the filing of civil lawsuits against anyone who calls for boycott; it creates a new "civil wrong" or tort. It also prohibits a person who calls for boycott from participating in any public tender.

The law also provides for the revocation of tax exemptions and other economic benefits given by the state from Israeli associations, as well as academic, cultural and scientific institutions which receive state support, if they call for or engage in boycott. The court may also award compensation, including punitive damages, even if no actual damage is proven.

Furthermore, the law provides that Israeli businesses, which publicly declare that they will not buy supplies or goods manufactured in the OPT may have their state-sponsored benefits revoked. As such, the law severely restricts freedom of expression and targets non-violent political opposition to the Occupation. 

http://www.adalah.org/eng/?mod=db&dld_page=law&slg=anti-boycott-law-prevention-of-damage-to-the-state-of-israel-through-boycott

[give her dixie]

The dead and those that don't live there have been evicted, and that includes their graves

On 21 May 2014, 8 eviction orders were pasted on structures in the cemetery at Al-Arakib and one was handed out to Sheikh Sayach Al-Turi, the Sheikh of the village.

The eviction is to be effected between 12 June and 12 July - a "flexible eviction". Some of the orders have been issued against persons who are no longer living and are buried in the cemetery, as well as against people no longer resident in the village.

Despite some 63 demolitions of the village since 2010, the cemetery, with several homes and other structures within its confines, including a small improvised mosque and minaret for calling people to prayer, has so far been left untouched by the authorities.

However, last March various authorities entered the perimeter and photograph the buildings for the first time.  This latest order is a new and very disturbing development with far reaching implications beyond the confines of Al-Arakib itself. It could cause a conflagration throughout the Negev.

Al-Arakib, a village of some 350 people went over a massive demolishion in July 2010, including its crops and water supply. The residents however, in spite of brutal police behavior, arrests and injuries did not give up and have maintained a constant presence, rebuilding their structures each time the village was demolished anew.  The Police sued the families and has claimed over 1.8 million shekels from the residents as 'payment' for expenses they had  because of the demolition operations. 

http://us4.campaign-archive2.com/?u=e8e84502ef33a494e8d51c62e&id=18814d515a&e=11eef64cb2

[seafoid]

3 people killed in an attack on a Jewish museum in Belgium.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/24/brussels-jewish-museum-attack-three-dead

and Israeli Foreign minister and settler Lieberman says any activity in support of Palestinian rights is anti-Semitic.



http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/.premium-1.592589

"Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, meanwhile, has said the shooting was the result of incitement by pro-Palestinian forces and the atmosphere generated by European actions against West Bank settlements.
"It's the result on the ground of anti-Israel and anti-Semitic incitement, among other things in calls to boycott Israel and Israeli products, in anti-Israel activities in international forums and in an automatic, one-sided anti-Israel position," Lieberman said.
"So-called 'pro-Palestinian' activity, which as in those dark days calls for boycotting 'Jewish goods' and acts aggressively against the only democracy in the Middle East, is purely anti-Semitic activity and not part of legitimate political debate over the conflict over territory, the likes of which exist in many places in the world. The latest anti-Semitic incidents are a warning light to all those who, consciously or not, cooperate with this incitement when they rush, each time anew, to denounce Israel and to compare building a home for a Jewish family in the land of its ancestors to vicious, murderous terror activity," Lieberman said."

I think it has the potential to get really dangerous. 


Dear Palestinians 
We have to torture you because of our history in Europe
signed
Israel

The Zionists will not tolerate Palestinian rights and they can't convince the world of the justness of their cause any longer

RIP the latest dead.

[give her dixie]

While en route to Manger Square to deliver an open-air mass, His Holiness Pope Francis exited his vehicle and stopped by the Israeli Separation Wall as it passes through northern Bethlehem.

While there, he knelt down and prayed at the wall in the direction of Jerusalem, which is cut off from Bethlehem by the wall and the Israeli checkpoints

[give her dixie]