The Palestine thread

[give her dixie]

Fantastic news today as Professor Stephen Hawkins has pulled out of an event in Israel in support of the academic boycott of the apartheid state. This is a massive boost to the boycott movement, and lays down a marker to others considering going there.



http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/05/08/a-brief-history-of-stephen-hawking-s-boycott.html

[seafoid]

Fantastic news today as Professor Stephen Hawkins has pulled out of an event in Israel in support of the academic boycott of the apartheid state. This is a massive boost to the boycott movement, and lays down a marker to others considering going there.



http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/05/08/a-brief-history-of-stephen-hawking-s-boycott.html

Some vile slurs against the prof from Israel's so called friends online. Mocking his condition is not really kosher. But what would you expect from the hebrew beavers?

Israel's liberals are trina cheile. They don't know how to react.

[give her dixie]

Fantastic news today as Professor Stephen Hawkins has pulled out of an event in Israel in support of the academic boycott of the apartheid state. This is a massive boost to the boycott movement, and lays down a marker to others considering going there.



http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/05/08/a-brief-history-of-stephen-hawking-s-boycott.html

Some vile slurs against the prof from Israel's so called friends online. Mocking his condition is not really kosher. But what would you expect from the hebrew beavers?

Israel's liberals are trina cheile. They don't know how to react.

I had to stop reading the comments as they are beyond sick. Plus the fact that Stephen Hawkings has Motor Neurone Disease, the same illness my father died from made the comments even harder to read.

I am sure the same people who left these comments are the 1st to scream anti semitism at the very mention of criticism of Israel.

This is a good article outlining 5 reasons why Hawkings is right to boycott Israel
http://m.aljazeera.com/story/20135953058699815

[Ball DeBeaver]

Pro-Palestinian or Anti-Israel?


by Khaled Abu Toameh
April 26, 2012 at 5:00 am


It would also help immensely of these activists came to the West Bank and Gaza Strip to offer advice on, and help in building, proper government institutions, and in combatting administrative and financial corruption. But as far as many of the pro-Palestinian activists in the West Bank and Gaze are concerned, the interests of the Palestinians are not as important as hating Israel.

Pro-Palestinian groups and individuals in the US and Europe are doing Palestinians injustice by devoting all their energies only against Israel.

There is a feeling in the West Bank and Gaza Strip that most of these groups and individuals are more interested in campaigning against Israel than helping the Palestinians.

Being pro-Palestinian does not necessarily mean that one also has to be anti-Israel.

The pro-Palestinian camp in the West should raise its voice against violations of human rights and media freedoms under the Palestinian Authority and Hamas.

In the past few weeks, six Palestinian journalists, bloggers and cartoonists were arrested by security forces belonging to the Palestinian government in the West Bank.

The pro-Palestinian activists around the world chose to turn a blind eye to the ongoing crackdown on freedom of expression in the West Bank.

They also failed --- even refused -- to condemn the Palestinian Authority government's decision to block web sites that are critical of Palestinian leaders in the West Bank.

The pro-Palestinian activists in the West also refuse to examine what is happening under Hamas in the Gaza Strip. They apparently do not care, or do not want to see, that there are executions, arbitrary arrests, and assaults against women and torture in Hamas prisons.

The pro-Palestinian activists and organizations also do not seem to care if the Palestinian Authority and Hamas are brainwashing Palestinian children and filling their minds and hearts with hatred.

Those who care about the Palestinians should come to the Gaza Strip and work toward promoting human rights under Hamas -- of children, women, and journalists.

It would help immensely if hundreds of pro-Palestinian activists came to the West Bank and Gaza Strip to teach Palestinian children English and expose them to the benefits of democracy and Western values, such as equal justice under law, free speech and a free press, and financial transparency and accountability

It would also help immensely if these activists came to the West Bank and Gaza Strip to offer advice on, and help in building, proper government institutions, and in combatting administrative and financial corruption.

But as far as many of the pro-Palestinian activists in the West are concerned, the interests of the Palestinians are not as important as hating Israel.

Anti-Israel messages and campaigns serve only the radicals in this region who do not want either peace or coexistence.

The time has come for the emergence of a genuine pro-Palestinian camp in the West that would focus less on Israel and more on helping the Palestinians.


http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3035/pro-palestinian-anti-israel

[seafoid]

Pro-Palestinian or Anti-Israel?


by Khaled Abu Toameh
April 26, 2012 at 5:00 am


It would also help immensely of these activists came to the West Bank and Gaza Strip to offer advice on, and help in building, proper government institutions, and in combatting administrative and financial corruption. But as far as many of the pro-Palestinian activists in the West Bank and Gaze are concerned, the interests of the Palestinians are not as important as hating Israel.

Pro-Palestinian groups and individuals in the US and Europe are doing Palestinians injustice by devoting all their energies only against Israel.

There is a feeling in the West Bank and Gaza Strip that most of these groups and individuals are more interested in campaigning against Israel than helping the Palestinians.

Being pro-Palestinian does not necessarily mean that one also has to be anti-Israel.

The pro-Palestinian camp in the West should raise its voice against violations of human rights and media freedoms under the Palestinian Authority and Hamas.

In the past few weeks, six Palestinian journalists, bloggers and cartoonists were arrested by security forces belonging to the Palestinian government in the West Bank.

The pro-Palestinian activists around the world chose to turn a blind eye to the ongoing crackdown on freedom of expression in the West Bank.

They also failed --- even refused -- to condemn the Palestinian Authority government's decision to block web sites that are critical of Palestinian leaders in the West Bank.

The pro-Palestinian activists in the West also refuse to examine what is happening under Hamas in the Gaza Strip. They apparently do not care, or do not want to see, that there are executions, arbitrary arrests, and assaults against women and torture in Hamas prisons.

The pro-Palestinian activists and organizations also do not seem to care if the Palestinian Authority and Hamas are brainwashing Palestinian children and filling their minds and hearts with hatred.

Those who care about the Palestinians should come to the Gaza Strip and work toward promoting human rights under Hamas -- of children, women, and journalists.

It would help immensely if hundreds of pro-Palestinian activists came to the West Bank and Gaza Strip to teach Palestinian children English and expose them to the benefits of democracy and Western values, such as equal justice under law, free speech and a free press, and financial transparency and accountability

It would also help immensely if these activists came to the West Bank and Gaza Strip to offer advice on, and help in building, proper government institutions, and in combatting administrative and financial corruption.

But as far as many of the pro-Palestinian activists in the West are concerned, the interests of the Palestinians are not as important as hating Israel.

Anti-Israel messages and campaigns serve only the radicals in this region who do not want either peace or coexistence.

The time has come for the emergence of a genuine pro-Palestinian camp in the West that would focus less on Israel and more on helping the Palestinians.


http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3035/pro-palestinian-anti-israel

Pro justice. Zionism is an abomination. What is the point of praying in Israel when Jews are torturing palestinians?

Is God supposed to approve? 

[seafoid]

The notion that pro human rights is antisemitic is totally fucked up.

Israel could be a wonderful country. There are so many talented people there.

[give her dixie]

Noam Chomsky helped lobby Stephen Hawking to stage Israel boycott

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/10/noam-chomsky-stephen-hawking-israel-boycott

Noam Chomsky was among 20 academics who privately lobbied Professor Stephen Hawking to boycott a major Israeli conference, it has emerged.

Chomsky, a US professor and well-known supporter of the Palestinian cause, joined British academics from the universities of Cambridge, London, Leeds, Southampton, Warwick, Newcastle, York and the Open University to tell Hawking they were "surprised and deeply disappointed" that he had accepted the invitation to speak at next month's presidential conference in Jerusalem, which will chaired by Shimon Peres and attended by Tony Blair and Bill Clinton.

Hawking pulled out this week in protest at Israel's treatment of Palestinians, in the wake of receiving the letter and soundings from Palestinian colleagues. The 71-year-old theoretical physicist's decision has been warmly welcomed by Palestinian academics, with one describing it as "of cosmic proportions", but was attacked in Israel.

On Friday the liberal academic David Newman, dean of the faculty of humanities and social sciences at Ben Gurion University in Israel, warned that an academic boycott "just destroys one of the very few spaces left where Israelis and Palestinians actually do come together".

Chomsky, who has backed "boycott and divestment of firms that are carrying out operations in the occupied territories", agreed to add his considerable weight to the pressure on Hawking after email correspondence with the British Committee for the Universities of Palestine campaign group (Bricup), said its chair, Jonathan Rosenhead.

The letter to Hawking declared: "Israel systematically discriminates against the Palestinians who make up 20% of its population in ways that would be illegal in Britain", its treatment of the people of Gaza amounts to "collective punishment", the construction of Jewish settlements breaches the Geneva convention and "Israel places multiple roadblocks, physical, financial and legal, in the way of higher education, both for its own Palestinian citizens and those under occupation".

The letter continued: "Israel has a name for the promotion of its cultural and scientific standing: 'Brand Israel'. This is a deliberate policy of camouflaging its oppressive acts behind a cultured veneer."

Professor Malcolm Levitt, a fellow of the Royal Society and an expert in magnetic resonance at Southampton University, who signed the letter, said: "Israel has a totally explicit policy of making life impossible for the non-Jewish population and I find it totally unacceptable. As a scientist, the tool I have available to prevent the normalisation of that situation is boycott. It is a tough choice because Israel is full of brilliant scientists and they are our colleagues."

Bricup is now to call on Lord Skidelsky, a leading economic historian, to refuse his invitation to speak at the conference. Skidelsky, emeritus professor of political economy at the University of Warwick and a Tory peer, declined to comment and is understood to still be planning to attend.

News of Chomsky's role in what has been considered the coup of Hawking's decision for the movement came amid growing signs in UK academia of interest in supporting boycotts of Israel. At its annual congress beginning on 29 May, the University and College Union will urge its 120,000 members to consider rethinking links with Israeli academic institutions. Teachers and lecturers will be asked to "consider the appropriateness of Israeli institutional associations", according to a draft motion.

"It is brave of Hawking for the straightforward reason that someone who has his prominence will be targeted for vilification," said Tom Hickey, a member of the UCU's executive committee who put forward the draft motion. "If he can do that then all of us should think of doing it. This isn't about targeting Israeli scholars but targeting the institutions."

Pro-boycott academics believe action by scientists is particularly effective in opposing Israel's treatment of Palestinians because the country's strength in science and technology is a key driver of the economy, and they claim the research capabilities of Israeli academic institutions have been deployed in support of advanced programmes such as the development of drone aircraft.

On Friday the fallout from Hawking's decision continued to be felt. "It is one of the starkest indicators yet that the tide is changing in the western mainstream against Israel's occupation, colonisation and apartheid, and that the Boycott Divestment and Sanctions movement is fast reaching its South Africa moment of maturity and impact," said Omar Barghouti, a Palestinian human rights activist and founding member of the BDS.

Others warned it would damage Israeli-Palestinian relations. "There are certain areas that are above political boycotts whatever your political positions are," said Newman. "Scientific co-operation is one of those particularly when you think of the wider benefits of science on the whole. In this context, universities are among the few spaces in Israel-Palestine where, even in these difficult times, there is some sort of dialogue and co-operation."

The British author Ian McEwan, who was criticised two years ago when he visited Israel to accept the Jerusalem Prize, said: "My feeling [in 2011] was that I wished to engage with the best elements of Israeli society and I don't want to isolate those people," he said.

He said there were dozens of countries "whose governments we might loathe or disapprove of" but "Israel-Palestine has become sort of tribal and a touchstone for a certain portion of the intellectual classes. I say this in the context of thinking it is profoundly wrong of the Israeli government not to be pursuing more actively and positively and creatively a solution with the Palestinians. That's why I think one wants to go to these places to make the point. Turning away will not produce any result."

Samia Botmeh, director of the centre for development studies at Birzeit University in the West Bank, and a member of the Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel's steering committee, said Hawking's decision had significantly boosted the boycott movement locally and internationally, but denied there had been a "huge, orchestrated campaign" to persuade him. "It will be easier now for other academics who have been supportive of Palestinian rights but were reluctant to act on their support," she said.

[Ball DeBeaver]

Noam Chomsky   



Nuff said!

*edit*

This is the same person who referred to the break up of Yugoslavia as a "successful social revolution." Did he not hear about the mass murder and genocide?

The same person who called the PLO "heroes" in Lebanon, even though for years the PLO raped, tortured, and murdered innocent civilians in Lebanon before the 1982 Lebanon War. Estimates put the death toll of civilians at the hands of the PLO at 100,000, with 250,000 wounded.

Chomsky         

[seafoid]

Noam Chomsky   



Nuff said!

*edit*

This is the same person who referred to the break up of Yugoslavia as a "successful social revolution." Did he not hear about the mass murder and genocide?

The same person who called the PLO "heroes" in Lebanon, even though for years the PLO raped, tortured, and murdered innocent civilians in Lebanon before the 1982 Lebanon War. Estimates put the death toll of civilians at the hands of the PLO at 100,000, with 250,000 wounded.

Chomsky         

Play the ball, beaver

What part of the following is incorrect

The letter to Hawking declared: "Israel systematically discriminates against the Palestinians who make up 20% of its population in ways that would be illegal in Britain", its treatment of the people of Gaza amounts to "collective punishment", the construction of Jewish settlements breaches the Geneva convention and "Israel places multiple roadblocks, physical, financial and legal, in the way of higher education, both for its own Palestinian citizens and those under occupation".

[Ball DeBeaver]

Are you for real? The Hamas poster boy's post was all about how the man was partially responsible for Hawking's decision, so it is entirely appropriate that I counter that with my own about the warped thinking of Noam (stop giggling at the back) Chomsky. When someone is used as a character witness, expect their own views to be brought into question.

I see you don't dispute the facts of my argument.



Noam Chomsky 

[mylestheslasher]

One of the worlds most intelligent men sees through Israel and all you can blather about is who (among others no doubt) lobbied him. Do you think Hawkins is a fool?

[seafoid]

Are you for real? The Hamas poster boy's post was all about how the man was partially responsible for Hawking's decision, so it is entirely appropriate that I counter that with my own about the warped thinking of Noam (stop giggling at the back) Chomsky. When someone is used as a character witness, expect their own views to be brought into question.

I see you don't dispute the facts of my argument.



Noam Chomsky 

I don't read much of your stuff at this stage. It seems to come mostly from Arutz 7.
Israel is losing support all over Europe. It seems very few goys understand that supporting justice for the Palestinian people is actually antisemitic. 

[Ball DeBeaver]

One of the worlds most intelligent men sees through Israel and all you can blather about is who (among others no doubt) lobbied him. Do you think Hawkins is a fool?

I'm not the one trumpeting Chomsky as some sort of moral beacon, advising scholars such as Hawking. I would give professor Hawking more credit than to have to rely on idiots like Noam Chomsky for advice.

"I accepted the invitation to the Presidential Conference with the intention that this would not only allow me to express my opinion on the prospects for a Peace Settlement but also because it would allow me to lecture on the West Bank," wrote Hawking. "However, I have received a number of emails from Palestinian academics. They are unanimous that I should respect the boycott. In view of this, I must withdraw from the conference. Had I attended, I would have stated my opinion that the policy of the present Israeli government is likely to lead to disaster."

Far from "seeing through Israel," this reads like he wanted to go, but was pressurised into not going by palestinians who are active in the BDS campaign. He says that he wanted to give his views on the prospects for peace, and wanted to say that he disagreed with Israeli government policy, but now his views may never be heard because of the pressure from the BDS movement.  Even the smartest brains are sometimes forced to do things they didn't wish to do  as the easier option.

[seafoid]

One of the worlds most intelligent men sees through Israel and all you can blather about is who (among others no doubt) lobbied him. Do you think Hawkins is a fool?

I'm not the one trumpeting Chomsky as some sort of moral beacon, advising scholars such as Hawking. I would give professor Hawking more credit than to have to rely on idiots like Noam Chomsky for advice.

"I accepted the invitation to the Presidential Conference with the intention that this would not only allow me to express my opinion on the prospects for a Peace Settlement but also because it would allow me to lecture on the West Bank," wrote Hawking. "However, I have received a number of emails from Palestinian academics. They are unanimous that I should respect the boycott. In view of this, I must withdraw from the conference. Had I attended, I would have stated my opinion that the policy of the present Israeli government is likely to lead to disaster."

Far from "seeing through Israel," this reads like he wanted to go, but was pressurised into not going by palestinians who are active in the BDS campaign. He says that he wanted to give his views on the prospects for peace, and wanted to say that he disagreed with Israeli government policy, but now his views may never be heard because of the pressure from the BDS movement.  Even the smartest brains are sometimes forced to do things they didn't wish to do  as the easier option.

It's much worse than Israel admits, Beaver.
Europe does not accept that the West Bank belongs to the Jewish people.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/03/israel-losing-international-support-british-ambassador
"The British ambassador to Israel has said international support for the Jewish state among those in the political mainstream is eroding, driven by settlement expansion in the West Bank and continued restrictions on Gaza.

There is "growing concern" in the UK over lack of progress towards peace with the Palestinians, and Israel was now being seen as Goliath against the Palestinians as David, said Matthew Gould, in reference to the biblical story.

In an unusually forthright interview for Israel's Channel 10 news, Gould said he detected a shift among the middle ground of British members of parliament towards a more critical view of Israel."Israelis might wake up in 10 years' time and find out that the level of understanding in the international community has suddenly changed, and that patience for continuing the status quo has reduced," he said.

"Support for Israel is starting to erode and that's not about these people on the fringe who are shouting loudly and calling for boycotts and all the rest of it. The interesting category are those members of parliament in the middle, and in that group I see a shift."

But, he added, Britain was "by no means unique" in its growing concern about the lack of progress towards peace. "Anyone who cares about Israel's standing in the world should be concerned about the erosion of popular support."

The shift was a result of Israeli government policies, Gould said, suggesting that it could not be countered or obscured by hasbara. The Hebrew word for explanation refers to efforts by the Israeli government and its supporters to promote a pro-Israel agenda and challenge what it sees as negative media coverage."

Gould is Jewish as well.

[Ball DeBeaver]

Believe it or not Seafoid, but I don't think Samaria and Judea belongs to the Israeli state either. I do however understand their reasoning behind controlling the security of the area.

If Israel hadn't got such a heavy military presence in the area how long do you think it would be before there were massive attacks against Israel, from both "West Bank" and Gaza? Once Israel feels secure, then the landscape will begin to change, not before.

There will only be a reduction in the number of Israelis there when the security situation changes and a peace deal is agreed with the palestinians. The problem there is that Fatah and Hamas etc are telling their people that not only does palestine consist of Gaza, Judea and Samaria, but also includes all of what is now Israel, so no matter what peace deal is done, the palestinians won't be happy until all jews are driven into the sea.
   
Even if Israel were to announce their withdrawl tomorrow, it would take a minimum of 5 years or more to repatriate all the settlers who wish to return to Israel. Then there would be those who will want to stay in their homes. How will they be able to live securely in a hostile state?