The Palestine thread

[seafoid]

Why do you hate Jews?

Why don't you stop beating your wife?

Come on BDB . Give us a reason to support Israeli apartheid. Surely you can come up with a better argument than 'if you don't you are a nazi'

Classy guy

nothing to say , have you ? And dropping half a billion dollars of munitions on Gaza  in 8 days is what Jewish destiny has become , is it ? Is this what 2 millenia of honest Jewish mitzvot was about?

[Ball DeBeaver]

Why do you hate Jews?

Why don't you stop beating your wife?

Come on BDB . Give us a reason to support Israeli apartheid. Surely you can come up with a better argument than 'if you don't you are a nazi'

Classy guy

nothing to say , have you ? And dropping half a billion dollars of munitions on Gaza  in 8 days is what Jewish destiny has become , is it ? Is this what 2 millenia of honest Jewish mitzvot was about?

I'm flabbergasted that the mods have allowed this accusation to stay. I haven't reported it, but a comment like that shouldn't have to be reported.
This is a discussion forum, where even those with wildly differing opinions deserve to be treated with at least some respect. If I'd called you a paedophile, I would understand. You are scum.

SHAME ON YOU MODS

[trileacman]

Can you gobshites stop cluttering up the page with this shite? FFS ignore the troll for a while and see if he'll f**k off. This is childish.

[give her dixie]

Can you gobshites stop cluttering up the page with this shite? FFS ignore the troll for a while and see if he'll f**k off. This is childish.

+1

[give her dixie]

This is a link to what is widely regarded as the handbook for Hasbara / Propaganda for Israel. Well worth clicking on the link to see how they work in the whitewashing of ethnic cleansing and genocide.


http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsweek.com%2Fmedia%2F70%2Ftip_report.pdf&date=2009-08-06%3Cbr%3E

The Israel Project's 2009 GLOBAL LANGUAGE DICTIONARY

A PERSONAL MESSAGE FROM THE AUTHOR

I wrote my first Language Dictionary for The Israel Project in 2003.  Since that time, Israel has
had three Prime Ministers, several stalled peace initiatives, found itself the victim of attack from its
northern and southern borders, and has suffered greatly in the court of public opinion.

On the other hand, the daily suicide bombings have stopped, and Hamas & Hezbollah have
shown themselves to be the brutal terrorist organizations that Israel has warned about.  The more things change, the more they stay the same.

All of the material in this document is new or updated based on research conducted in 2008 and
2009.  Some of the language will be familiar; most of the "Words That Work" boxes come from Israeli representatives and spokespeople.  But, the polling, strategic recommendations and guidance are all based on the current situation.  I hope that advocates for Israel will benefit from the massive amount of work that went into the creation of this booklet.  I also hope that this will be the last Israel Language Dictionary I ever have to craft.

And remember, it's not what you say that counts.  It's what people hear.

Dr. Frank Luntz
   April 2009

[thebigfella]

Can you gobshites stop cluttering up the page with this shite? FFS ignore the troll for a while and see if he'll f**k off. This is childish.

+1

Your just as bad, in fact worse.

[Ball DeBeaver]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4328659,00.html

Fallacy of pre-1967 borders


Op-ed: Palestinian call for return to pre-1967 borders attempt to bypass historical realities, omit two decades of military defeats

Riccardo Dugulin Published:  01.06.13, 10:22 / Israel Opinion 
 

At the end of May 2011, President Obama stepped away from a long-standing US policy and recognized the necessity for Israel to accept pre-1967 borders as a condition for peace with the Palestinian Authority.

Centered on a quasi-dogmatic view of the region, the idea evokes a basic misconception that has been jeopardizing the already feeble chances for durable peace and security both for Israel and the Palestinians.

Leftist Camp

The heart of the conflict / A.B. Yehoshua

Op-ed: A.B. Yehoshua says dovish camp must demand end to settlement enterprise before joining Bibi's third government 
Full Story

When addressing the issue of the territorial changes that followed the 1967 war, it has now become common knowledge for Western and Arab decision-making circles that the most moderate position available is the one offering a two-state solution broadly defined by the borders Israel had with Arab states prior to the Six Day War.

This theoretical situation offers a major insight into the fallacy crippling peace-oriented groups and pro-Palestinians activists. In reality, never as in the period between 1948 and 1967 were the Palestinians in Gaza, Judea and Samaria under a more overt and transparent military rule by foreign powers. Prior to 1967, Arab populations living in those areas did not see their aspirations of self-administration addressed and the notion of a separate state for the Palestinians was merely utilized to negate the existence of a Jewish State.

If the basic idea for Nasser or King Hussein of Jordan was to "drive the Jews to the sea," their personal intentions were linked to the glory with which such an event would provide them. The ultimate defeat of pan-Arab nationalism left the Palestinians as shattered as their previous protectors since, deprived of the relative safety of Arab-controlled safe havens, they no longer had the impunity to prepare terrorist operations.

The logical question that arises from such considerations is why the notion of "1967 borders" has become so sacred in the political discourse of international organizations, pressure groups and militant groups?

Entry into adulthood
Beyond the simple control of land, the call for returning to the "1967 borders" may be read as an implicit way of negating reality by those who have not been favored by it.

While Arab states denounce the Israeli military presence in Gaza, Judea and Samaria, little is mentioned about their persistent military occupation of these territories for two decades. The underlying reason originates from the fact that Western commentators have bought into the 'Arab solidarity' argument, which in some twisted logic would consider the perpetrator of an injustice less of a criminal if both the criminal and the victim were Arabs in the process of fighting a non-Arab power.

The different calls from Arab states to go back to the 1967 demarcation lines highlight their relative willingness to at least recognize the existence of Israel as a Jewish state, yet depriving the region of the basic tool for attaining peace: The common assurance of security. In fact, "1967 borders" embody the collective Arab ethos of the period during which the sovereignty and security of the State of Israel could be put in danger. The years prior to 1967 represent an era during which Arab States, not the Palestinians, were at the heart of the war against Israel. As a result, the defeat also meant the beginning of a cycle in which states would solely be sponsors of terrorist organizations, thus no longer being in the spotlight.

For the Palestinians, the 1967 defeat meant what may be considered as an entry into adulthood. They lost the ability to use the territory they claim as "theirs" under the protection assured by the presence of powerful armies, thus also losing the opportunity to wage terrorist attacks. Consequently, calling for the return to these borders is an effective strategy the Palestinian leadership chooses to follow while trying to bypass historical realities and omit two decades of military defeats.

The real puzzle is then why international organizations, Western governments and pressure groups are so easily seduced by an idea that lacks any meaningful rationale. Similarly to 1948, in 1967 the borders between Arab states and Israel were not recognized as an official start for a two-state solution, as it was revealed in the notorious Khartoum resolution of 1967. The reality on the ground is that Palestinian factions do revert to previously rejected positions as soon as the situation is no longer in their relative favor.

The notion of "1967 borders" should be argued against, not only in the light of the arguments brought up by political parties and security experts but because it stems from a discourse clearly divergent from peace.

Enduring peace and stability can only be achieved by a clear recognition of the events that took place in the past and of the concrete situation unfolding at present, notably the Palestinians' unwillingness to enter negotiations based on shared interests.

By supporting the concept of "1967 borders" the international community reverts back to a period in which Arab powers established military occupation in Gaza, Judea and Samaria while waging and supporting terror attacks on Israel, a fallacy drastically undermining peace-oriented efforts.

Riccardo Dugulin holds a Master degree from the Paris School of International Affairs (Sciences Po) and is specialized in International Security. He is currently working in Paris for a Medical and Security Assistance company. He has worked for a number of leading think tanks in Washington DC, Dubai and Beirut. Personal website: www.riccardodugulin.com

[Ball DeBeaver]

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/tabid/178/nid/23607/Default.aspx



Palestinians don't want Palestinian refugees




Sunday, January 06, 2013 |  Aviel Schneider   



The Palestinian governments in Gaza (Hamas) and the so-called "West Bank" (Mahmoud Abbas) have refused to take Palestinian refugees from war-ridden Syria.

Recently, the UN Works and Relief Agency (UNWRA), which was created to handle the issue of Palestinian Arab refugees, asked the Palestinian governments to allow their brothers from Syria to enter.

Palestinian Arabs in Syria have had to flee their refugee camps under attack from Syrian rebels who view the Palestinians as supporters of dictator Bashar Assad.

Gaza-based Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh refused to take the refugees on the grounds that doing so would set a dangerous precedent for more Palestinian refugees to come to the Gaza Strip. He declared that these refugees should return to Israel and not to the Gaza Strip.

Haniyeh further argued that Gaza doesn't have the financial resources to absorb any refugees.

Ramallah-based Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas similarly refused entry into the PA-controlled parts of Judea and Samaria.

Even though the Palestinian governments in Gaza and Ramallah truly don't have the financial resources to take on refugees, the refusal to help their brothers in a time of great danger is still strange.

On the one hand, the Palestinians in Gaza and Ramallah constantly ask UNWRA for help for themselves, but on the other they refuse help to their people who see themselves as refugees as well.

Sixty years ago, Israel didn't have the financial resources to take on refugees either, but over 600,000 fleeing Jews were welcomed with open arms and given a place in the country.

It is clear the Palestinians don't really care about a "right of return," rather they want to destroy the Jewish state demographically, while keeping these outsiders out of Palestinian towns and villages. The refugee problem is only a tool against Israel.

[LeoMc]

Can you gobshites stop cluttering up the page with this shite? FFS ignore the troll for a while and see if he'll f**k off. This is childish.

+1

Your just as bad, in fact worse.

Ah now there is a big difference in GHD and Seafoid / BDB (not just him being a Tyrone man) and I would have respect for his opinions.

[seafoid]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/07/naftali-bennett-interview-jewish-home

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is "insoluble" and most Israelis "couldn't care less about it any more", according to Naftali Bennett, the surprise star of the election campaign, whose extreme rightwing nationalist and pro-settler Jewish Home is within sight of becoming the country's second-biggest party.

In an interview with the Guardian, Bennett said he did not intend to waste the next four years "babbling about Israel and the Palestinians", and defended his plan to annex most of the West Bank in the face of international opposition, which was the "result of ignorance".

"There is not going to be a Palestinian state within the tiny land of Israel," he said, referring to the area from the Jordan river to the Mediterranean. "It's just not going to happen A Palestinian state would be a disaster for the next 200 years."

Instead of a two-state solution, Bennett has proposed the unilateral annexation of Area C, the 60% of the West Bank that contains all Jewish settlements and is currently under Israeli military control. Palestinians currently living in Area C could either take Israeli citizenship or relocate to the Palestinian-governed 40% of the West Bank.

http://bigthink.com/strange-maps/370-palestines-island-paradise-now-with-a-word-from-its-creator

[Ball DeBeaver]

Family values, palestinian style





Hamas politician's wife: We must teach our kids to die




Tuesday, January 08, 2013 |  Israel Today Staff   


The wife of a Hamas member of the Palestinian parliament recently demonstrated the stark difference between the dominant values in Israeli Jewish society that those that have sadly taken hold in much of Palestinian society.

In a December 2 interview with Al-Aqsa TV, Umm Osama, wife of Hamas lawmaker Khalil Al-Hayya, stated that a woman's role is no less important than a man's in "Palestine" because it is the mother who "instills in her children the love of Jihad and martyrdom for the sake of Allah."

Umm Osama continued by noting that "Allah's reward is Paradise...[and] Paradise requires from us our blood."

When the interviewer agreed that "we want to die as martyrs," Umm Osama responded:

"Indeed we do. I am constantly praying: 'Allah, make the end of our days be in martyrdom.' I pray for this even for my husband and my children."

It has been repeatedly pointed out that while such attitudes make genuine, long-lasting peace nearly impossible by ensuring the next generation of Palestinian Arabs hate Israel, it is also a form of child abuse for which those like Umm Osama appear wholly unrepentant.

It would be terribly wrong to say that all Palestinians think this way, but it must also be remembered that a large majority of Palestinian voters put Hamas in power in the last general election in 2006.


http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/tabid/178/nid/23612/Default.aspx

[muppet]

We should thank BDB for showing us some of the shocking stuff being published as commentary in the media in Israel.

The wife of a Hamas member of the Palestinian parliament recently demonstrated the stark difference between the dominant values in Israeli Jewish society that those that have sadly taken hold in much of Palestinian society

You need to read no further than the first sentence of the last article to get a taste of the way things get twisted. One of the biggest criticisms of Arab/Muslim culture is the subordinate role of women in their society. But low and behold, when it suits, in Israel they will take a few idiotic quotes from an official's wife as representative of the values of an entire race.

Does anyone here care what Willie Frazier's wife thinks? Didn't think so.



A more accurate picture would have the big man armed to the teeth.

[Ball DeBeaver]

Does anyone here care what Willie Frazier's wife thinks? Didn't think so.

If mad willies wife was teaching the son of satan to be a suicide bomber, then yes.

[seafoid]

It has been repeatedly pointed out that while such attitudes make genuine, long-lasting peace nearly impossible by ensuring the next generation of Palestinian Arabs hate Israel, it is also a form of child abuse for which those like Umm Osama appear wholly unrepentant.

The world just doesn't buy that racist shite any more.
One EU country voted with Israel to deny the Palestinians an upgrade at the UN last November.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/30/map-how-the-world-voted-on-palestine.html

[muppet]

Does anyone here care what Willie Frazier's wife thinks? Didn't think so.

If mad willies wife was teaching the son of satan to be a suicide bomber, then yes.

And there it is.