Gaelic football is crap- and needs to change ASAP

Started by Truth hurts, October 03, 2022, 09:30:04 AM

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armaghniac

Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 07, 2022, 09:09:01 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 06, 2022, 05:33:22 PM
The simplest cure for abuse is to require refs and players to wear mics, which is perfectly technically possible. Any ffing the ref and you are off and the recording is submitted to a disciplinary panel.
Not sure what to do about spectators, but this things have to brought under control or there will be no refs for games, I see today that the Camogie association have problems too https://www.rte.ie/sport/camogie/2022/1006/1327517-dublin-camogie-warns-clubs-on-abuse-of-match-officials/

There's a few refs that wouldn't be that keen on their own Language being recorded.....

We live in Ireland and a certain style of language is used. But there is a difference between a FFS which is not directed at a person and direct abuse of a person. Even if the ref says to some player "what the F** were you thinking of" that is mere decorative language, and is not directed at a person.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Milltown Row2

Quote from: armaghniac on October 07, 2022, 10:42:24 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 07, 2022, 09:09:01 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 06, 2022, 05:33:22 PM
The simplest cure for abuse is to require refs and players to wear mics, which is perfectly technically possible. Any ffing the ref and you are off and the recording is submitted to a disciplinary panel.
Not sure what to do about spectators, but this things have to brought under control or there will be no refs for games, I see today that the Camogie association have problems too https://www.rte.ie/sport/camogie/2022/1006/1327517-dublin-camogie-warns-clubs-on-abuse-of-match-officials/

There's a few refs that wouldn't be that keen on their own Language being recorded.....

We live in Ireland and a certain style of language is used. But there is a difference between a FFS which is not directed at a person and direct abuse of a person. Even if the ref says to some player "what the F** were you thinking of" that is mere decorative language, and is not directed at a person.

Players know they have crossed the line, if it comes from the ref it will always be reactive to something that has been said to him. If it was stopped at source we wouldn't be having a problem. Deal with the decision and move on, being abusive about it will not, and I've yet to see it changed, make the ref change his mind.

Just because you feel hard done by does not mean you have a child's tantrum on the pitch
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

rosnarun

Quote from: dec on October 06, 2022, 03:21:14 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 06, 2022, 03:19:19 PM
Quote from: TirEoghainGael on October 06, 2022, 02:51:03 PM
Quote from: Handpass123 on October 06, 2022, 01:34:22 PM
Have been giving this a good amount of thought. What about a VAR type referee be brought into the game? Too many games these days have huge decisions made that are incorrect, shifting the momentum of the game. If a video referee was brought in, this wouldn't be the case and it also might take a bit of pressure off the actual referees. For example, Galway should of been awarded penalty in AI final then Kerry went other end and scored point. 4 point swing? Why are we allowing elite teams to influence referees to not give decisions for opposition #DaylightRobbery
What's next offside as well? The gaa will never introduce VAR. perhaps a second referee might help but again both referees will have different interpretations of the rules. Would need two whistles also...

Was offside not brought in in soccer to prevent blanket defences? That could be our solution right there. I can just imagine reserve league division 2 games being held up for a few minutes while a VAR panel in Dublin debates a tight call.

Off side was brought in in soccer to prevent a forward standing beside the opposition goal keeper and a team just hoofing the ball in to him every time.

which for yer was the basic job of a fullforward . still isin a lot of teams .
Really dont know how any onething following soccer rules would improve what they are whining about would improve things.
the slow languid play the constant sideways passing  is that not the problem people are trying to solve.
all that soccer ha contributed so far is tyrone 'Hair injuries ' and  Diving looking for frees and cards
If you make yourself understood, you're always speaking well. Moliere

trueblue1234

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 07, 2022, 11:10:23 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 07, 2022, 10:42:24 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 07, 2022, 09:09:01 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 06, 2022, 05:33:22 PM
The simplest cure for abuse is to require refs and players to wear mics, which is perfectly technically possible. Any ffing the ref and you are off and the recording is submitted to a disciplinary panel.
Not sure what to do about spectators, but this things have to brought under control or there will be no refs for games, I see today that the Camogie association have problems too https://www.rte.ie/sport/camogie/2022/1006/1327517-dublin-camogie-warns-clubs-on-abuse-of-match-officials/

There's a few refs that wouldn't be that keen on their own Language being recorded.....

We live in Ireland and a certain style of language is used. But there is a difference between a FFS which is not directed at a person and direct abuse of a person. Even if the ref says to some player "what the F** were you thinking of" that is mere decorative language, and is not directed at a person.

Players know they have crossed the line, if it comes from the ref it will always be reactive to something that has been said to him. If it was stopped at source we wouldn't be having a problem. Deal with the decision and move on, being abusive about it will not, and I've yet to see it changed, make the ref change his mind.

Just because you feel hard done by does not mean you have a child's tantrum on the pitch

You'd love a mic FFS.

😀
Grammar: the difference between knowing your shit

Armagh18

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 07, 2022, 11:10:23 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 07, 2022, 10:42:24 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 07, 2022, 09:09:01 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 06, 2022, 05:33:22 PM
The simplest cure for abuse is to require refs and players to wear mics, which is perfectly technically possible. Any ffing the ref and you are off and the recording is submitted to a disciplinary panel.
Not sure what to do about spectators, but this things have to brought under control or there will be no refs for games, I see today that the Camogie association have problems too https://www.rte.ie/sport/camogie/2022/1006/1327517-dublin-camogie-warns-clubs-on-abuse-of-match-officials/

There's a few refs that wouldn't be that keen on their own Language being recorded.....

We live in Ireland and a certain style of language is used. But there is a difference between a FFS which is not directed at a person and direct abuse of a person. Even if the ref says to some player "what the F** were you thinking of" that is mere decorative language, and is not directed at a person.

Players know they have crossed the line, if it comes from the ref it will always be reactive to something that has been said to him. If it was stopped at source we wouldn't be having a problem. Deal with the decision and move on, being abusive about it will not, and I've yet to see it changed, make the ref change his mind.

Just because you feel hard done by does not mean you have a child's tantrum on the pitch
Thats very true. No matter how wrong a ref may be he's calling it as he see's it and like a player will make mistakes.

Look at me typing this with a calm head on me when I've roared plenty at refs in my time!

Milltown Row2

Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 07, 2022, 02:36:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 07, 2022, 11:10:23 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 07, 2022, 10:42:24 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 07, 2022, 09:09:01 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 06, 2022, 05:33:22 PM
The simplest cure for abuse is to require refs and players to wear mics, which is perfectly technically possible. Any ffing the ref and you are off and the recording is submitted to a disciplinary panel.
Not sure what to do about spectators, but this things have to brought under control or there will be no refs for games, I see today that the Camogie association have problems too https://www.rte.ie/sport/camogie/2022/1006/1327517-dublin-camogie-warns-clubs-on-abuse-of-match-officials/

There's a few refs that wouldn't be that keen on their own Language being recorded.....

We live in Ireland and a certain style of language is used. But there is a difference between a FFS which is not directed at a person and direct abuse of a person. Even if the ref says to some player "what the F** were you thinking of" that is mere decorative language, and is not directed at a person.

Players know they have crossed the line, if it comes from the ref it will always be reactive to something that has been said to him. If it was stopped at source we wouldn't be having a problem. Deal with the decision and move on, being abusive about it will not, and I've yet to see it changed, make the ref change his mind.

Just because you feel hard done by does not mean you have a child's tantrum on the pitch

You'd love a mic FFS.

😀

I'm very mild mannered 8)

But as Armagh18 said they all make mistakes or don't see it the way the player see's it. Ones were calling for ref's not being trained properly or not fit enough and so on, in the main they are all ex players and to do Championship they have to pass exams and fitness tests to get to a standard, what more should be done?

Counties up and down the country are losing ref's very quickly after they have passed the course, which btw is very good and lengthy with great detail and generally finishes up in Croke park with guest referees covering various different parts of what to expect and how to deal with it.

So if you are losing more ref's and ones natural retire who will fill the positions? How will the games be officiated?
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Derryman forever

I have the greatest respect for Lee Keegan.
One of the greatest to never win an AI.
And this is not a criticism of his article but my thoughts on it.
Lee opens his article by lamenting the state of Gaelic Football , the packed defence and the lateral play to counteract it.
He then closes his article by praising Mickey Hartes Louth and their packed defence and the lateral game that has raised these minnows of the game to be contenders.
And that is where we are. Managers have figured a way to bring the game to a level where any group of bonded players singing of the same sheet can compete with the elite counties of the sport.
The game is in transition and people's expectation will change.  This is the evolution of all things.
Even Aussie rules have changed. There is no longer space, even in those vast expanses, for the Gary Abletts   Jason Dunstalls etc to chalk up their 100 goals per year.
Scoring 100 goals a year is now a rarity as compared to 15 year ago.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/0321/1365522-no-easy-fix-to-games-ills-after-poor-league/

Sportacus

I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

themac_23

Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Football has become a game that is very difficult to attract a neutral, I struggle to watch games that ive no dog in the fight and anyone I talk to seems to be the same. Hurling still has the appeal that you can watch a game between 2 top teams and it keeps you interested, football not so much.

johnnycool

Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Some hurling managers are going the same way.

Here is Dessie Hutchinson's set of stats on Sunday v Kilkenny, one of the best forwards in the game, unbelievable IMO.

Possessions: 14
Shots:0
Hand passes: 8 (5 sideways)
Stick passes: 3 (1 sideways)
Dispossessed: 2
Frees won:1
Frees conceded:1

Possession location:
Inside 45:0
45-65:4
65-65:6
Defensive half:4


The KK defenders probably couldn't believe their luck!

yellowcard

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 10:08:26 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Football has become a game that is very difficult to attract a neutral, I struggle to watch games that ive no dog in the fight and anyone I talk to seems to be the same. Hurling still has the appeal that you can watch a game between 2 top teams and it keeps you interested, football not so much.

I would agree with your assessment about the football. I look forward to sitting down to watching a match then about 10 minutes in I realise I'm bored stiff watching the same regurgitated possession based hand passing shite. I think its just habit, tradition and tribalism that makes you keep on coming back to watch it but it's really getting to the stage where I can take or leave it unless my own county is involved. If sport is supposed to be entertainment then this stuff is as far from entertainment as you can get, its all too mechanical and it's treated like an occupation by nearly all coaching teams. Data analysis and over coaching has ruined the game. The coaching fraternity will of course tell you everything is fantastic and why wouldn't they, most of them are earning a crust from it. It should be the number one priority for the GAA to try to resolve.     

Even hurling has become fairly tedious though. The same few teams playing each other over and over again and it has got very much possession based as well with a lot fewer goals in matches it would seem.

tbrick18

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 10:08:26 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Football has become a game that is very difficult to attract a neutral, I struggle to watch games that ive no dog in the fight and anyone I talk to seems to be the same. Hurling still has the appeal that you can watch a game between 2 top teams and it keeps you interested, football not so much.

I don't necessarily agree.
In hurling, unless you are watching some of the top teams, the games can be a really hard watch.
In soccer, the whole approach is to pass the ball around the back and mf to find a gap to attack. No-one seems to complain about those games being boring, rather the skill levels of the players are revered.

Looking back to football of the 90's and to a lesser extent the 00's, football was more dynamic and more attack centred and yes, it can be argued more exciting and a more attractive prospect for the neutral. But the skill levels of players I believe are no-where near the levels of today and the fitness levels now are at stratospheric levels in comparison.

In football today, the top teams are still exciting to watch. The skill levels and fitness levels allow for those moments of brilliance which are enabled by the defensive foundation and approach. I personally find that fascinating to watch.
We still get some real score fests, but generally they are between teams that don't have the same level of players/management/tactics and most importantly finance and so the defensive abilities are not as good as the top 3-4 teams.

Only my opinion and I'm sure others will completely disagree. For me it's the progression of the game in terms of tactics and skills.
20 years ago we would not have enivisaged the way the game is today and I'd imagine in 20 years time it will have evolved again into something unrecognisable to todays players/fans.
It doesn't make it worse, just different and one thing for sure is that if nothing changed, it would become stale and boring and we'd have Kerry/Dublin winning every year and the rest of us would be sitting back dreaming of better days.

smort


Cavan19

Quote from: tbrick18 on March 23, 2023, 11:15:26 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 10:08:26 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Football has become a game that is very difficult to attract a neutral, I struggle to watch games that ive no dog in the fight and anyone I talk to seems to be the same. Hurling still has the appeal that you can watch a game between 2 top teams and it keeps you interested, football not so much.

I don't necessarily agree.
In hurling, unless you are watching some of the top teams, the games can be a really hard watch.
In soccer, the whole approach is to pass the ball around the back and mf to find a gap to attack. No-one seems to complain about those games being boring, rather the skill levels of the players are revered.

Looking back to football of the 90's and to a lesser extent the 00's, football was more dynamic and more attack centred and yes, it can be argued more exciting and a more attractive prospect for the neutral. But the skill levels of players I believe are no-where near the levels of today and the fitness levels now are at stratospheric levels in comparison.

In football today, the top teams are still exciting to watch. The skill levels and fitness levels allow for those moments of brilliance which are enabled by the defensive foundation and approach. I personally find that fascinating to watch.
We still get some real score fests, but generally they are between teams that don't have the same level of players/management/tactics and most importantly finance and so the defensive abilities are not as good as the top 3-4 teams.

Only my opinion and I'm sure others will completely disagree. For me it's the progression of the game in terms of tactics and skills.
20 years ago we would not have enivisaged the way the game is today and I'd imagine in 20 years time it will have evolved again into something unrecognisable to todays players/fans.
It doesn't make it worse, just different and one thing for sure is that if nothing changed, it would become stale and boring and we'd have Kerry/Dublin winning every year and the rest of us would be sitting back dreaming of better days.

I wouldn't agree with you about the skill levels i don't think they have got better there are individuals who have a serious skill set but we had them back then also.

Fitness and Conditioning is off the charts now compared to back then alright.

yellowcard

Quote from: tbrick18 on March 23, 2023, 11:15:26 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 10:08:26 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Football has become a game that is very difficult to attract a neutral, I struggle to watch games that ive no dog in the fight and anyone I talk to seems to be the same. Hurling still has the appeal that you can watch a game between 2 top teams and it keeps you interested, football not so much.

I don't necessarily agree.
In hurling, unless you are watching some of the top teams, the games can be a really hard watch.
In soccer, the whole approach is to pass the ball around the back and mf to find a gap to attack. No-one seems to complain about those games being boring, rather the skill levels of the players are revered.

Looking back to football of the 90's and to a lesser extent the 00's, football was more dynamic and more attack centred and yes, it can be argued more exciting and a more attractive prospect for the neutral. But the skill levels of players I believe are no-where near the levels of today and the fitness levels now are at stratospheric levels in comparison.

In football today, the top teams are still exciting to watch. The skill levels and fitness levels allow for those moments of brilliance which are enabled by the defensive foundation and approach. I personally find that fascinating to watch.
We still get some real score fests, but generally they are between teams that don't have the same level of players/management/tactics and most importantly finance and so the defensive abilities are not as good as the top 3-4 teams.

Only my opinion and I'm sure others will completely disagree. For me it's the progression of the game in terms of tactics and skills.
20 years ago we would not have enivisaged the way the game is today and I'd imagine in 20 years time it will have evolved again into something unrecognisable to todays players/fans.
It doesn't make it worse, just different and one thing for sure is that if nothing changed, it would become stale and boring and we'd have Kerry/Dublin winning every year and the rest of us would be sitting back dreaming of better days.

I'm not sure how the evolution of the game would change that particular outcome as it is fairly clear that the best resourced counties are those who advantage the most. Kerry and Dublin have literally won every League and championship title in the last decade apart from one Mayo League and one Tyrone championship!

You also make the point that skill and fitness levels have never been higher and that's possibly true which is down to the level of coaching invested in players from they are 5/6 years of age. But then again it depends on how you define skill and what you want the game to look like. I'd prefer to watch more of a kicking game where players are able to get their heads up and execute a long pass into an inside forward. Also to watch players that are able to kick scores from 40 metres out and forwards that are able to take their men on one on one and bear down on goal. More one on one duels for possession and less zonal marking to cover space. However all of those skills have become less important at the expense of possession and risk free football. GPS and possession based stats are the name of the game now. I'm sure there are coaching types who enjoy those type of hand passing possession based matches where they are able to have more control of the players movements and tactical positioning but imo it does nothing for the spectacle. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.