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The GAA needs to change the rule of Gaelic football- its becoming so tedious and boring. Every game over the country is played the same way. Keep the ball, puke football. How can we change it?

Possession clock would stop the keep ball sessions.

Quote from: Truth hurts on October 03, 2022, 09:30:04 AM
The GAA needs to change the rule of Gaelic football- its becoming so tedious and boring. Every game over the country is played the same way. Keep the ball, puke football. How can we change it?

Turn it off and watch hurling, ya can't play 'keep the ball' or wind down the clock

The problem is we have coached this from intercounty down to club level as it brings results, possession of the controls the game, bringing in a possession clock is really hard to officiate with all the other rules, be more gurning from the sidelines and behind the fence

If you haven't accepted that Gaelic football has changed forever by this stage then I'm afraid you're a lost cause.

Quote from: RandyDupree on October 03, 2022, 11:04:48 AM
If you haven't accepted that Gaelic football has changed forever by this stage then I'm afraid you're a lost cause.

not always for the worse either. Did you ever go back and watch games from years and years ago? A lot of the time its just close your eyes and hoof, very little skill involved.

Club football teams trying to play county tactics and not being fit to contributes. (The lower end of county does too).

Quote from: Truth hurts on October 03, 2022, 09:30:04 AM
The GAA needs to change the rule of Gaelic football- its becoming so tedious and boring. Every game over the country is played the same way. Keep the ball, puke football. How can we change it?

Ban handling the ball ;D
Or Abolish or restrict the fkn handpass!

Quote from: Rossfan on October 03, 2022, 11:32:34 AM

Quote from: Truth hurts on October 03, 2022, 09:30:04 AM
The GAA needs to change the rule of Gaelic football- its becoming so tedious and boring. Every game over the country is played the same way. Keep the ball, puke football. How can we change it?

Ban handling the ball ;D
Or Abolish or restrict the fkn handpass!

So go back to a time when the ball was just hoofed up the pitch? Yeah Its more exciting for sure

You rarely see it in Tyrone club football. Go at them!!

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2022, 01:10:13 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on October 03, 2022, 11:32:34 AM

Quote from: Truth hurts on October 03, 2022, 09:30:04 AM
The GAA needs to change the rule of Gaelic football- its becoming so tedious and boring. Every game over the country is played the same way. Keep the ball, puke football. How can we change it?

Ban handling the ball ;D
Or Abolish or restrict the fkn handpass!

So go back to a time when the ball was just hoofed up the pitch? Yeah Its more exciting for sure

It was as there was a contest for the ball every few seconds.
Watching paint dry is more exciting than the orgies of sidewards and backwards throwball we're "treated" to nowadays.
If ye want to keep that sh1te then you have to allow a tackle on the man !

Was at a under 10 Boys Blitz on the weekend. One Referee was spot on with over-carrying of the ball. Called it correctly over and over. Much to the dismay of coaches used to their players usually getting away with it. Referee came in for harsh criticism. To which he replied, I'm trying to teach them what to expect when they get older. Thing is, he was teaching them nothing really, because the steps/over carrying rule is abused week in week out and rarely pulled by Referees.

i dont know about any one else here but I love watching footbal and dont think there is a game to match it.
Saw all the Mayo Quater finals in mayo at the weekend and there were 3 very good games and the other was a tough turgid affair  but well watchable..
I thin went to Offaly ladies intermediate final a fantastic game and well Done BallinmereDurrow
Soccer is just boring and rugby has become regulated with in an inch of of its life

Gaelic football will find it's level. Success, no matter how bad the football will get the fans out. Donegal proved that in 2011/12. Many fans of county teams are more interested in the paraphernalia than watching their team. Gaelic football offers a pride of place, a way to feel good about where you come from. No matter how bad the product is, this will always help keep the game afloat.

True enough Bunker but I'd say a lot less neutrals go to games any more

Down semi-final, Mayobridge vs Kilcoo. Mayobridge won the throw-in, Kilcoo retreated behind their 45, and for the next 6 mins Mayobidge hand-passed the ball around, only twice even going inside the 45 before hurriedly retreating. Turgid stuff; until the rules are changed to reduce the incentive for defensive football, this is going to continue.

Quote from: Rossfan on October 03, 2022, 04:08:21 PM
True enough Bunker but I'd say a lot less neutrals go to games any more

But surely that is  partly  down to  entry fees?  It's expensive enough  to follow your own county (or club, even ) these days without heading to neutral games as Well

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2022, 10:34:52 AM

Quote from: Truth hurts on October 03, 2022, 09:30:04 AM
The GAA needs to change the rule of Gaelic football- its becoming so tedious and boring. Every game over the country is played the same way. Keep the ball, puke football. How can we change it?

Turn it off and watch hurling, ya can't play 'keep the ball' or wind down the clock

The problem is we have coached this from intercounty down to club level as it brings results, possession of the controls the game, bringing in a possession clock is really hard to officiate with all the other rules, be more gurning from the sidelines and behind the fence

It didn't work for Derry in Croke Park
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osIgk4k2P6Y

Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2022, 07:07:42 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2022, 10:34:52 AM

Quote from: Truth hurts on October 03, 2022, 09:30:04 AM
The GAA needs to change the rule of Gaelic football- its becoming so tedious and boring. Every game over the country is played the same way. Keep the ball, puke football. How can we change it?

Turn it off and watch hurling, ya can't play 'keep the ball' or wind down the clock

The problem is we have coached this from intercounty down to club level as it brings results, possession of the controls the game, bringing in a possession clock is really hard to officiate with all the other rules, be more gurning from the sidelines and behind the fence

It didn't work for Derry in Croke Park
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osIgk4k2P6Y

Didn't work for Derry but it worked really well for Galway who were even more defensive than Derry on the day and Derry just couldn't break down that defensive Galway wall.

Quote from: Truth hurts on October 03, 2022, 09:30:04 AM
The GAA needs to change the rule of Gaelic football- its becoming so tedious and boring. Every game over the country is played the same way. Keep the ball, puke football. How can we change it?

Go and watch ladies football or juvenile football

Quote from: Rossfan on October 03, 2022, 04:08:21 PM
True enough Bunker but I'd say a lot less neutrals go to games any more

People pack out soccer stadiums to watch the players stroll around and roll the ball back and forth to each other for 90 minutes.

Quote from: Ash Smoker on October 04, 2022, 11:01:13 AM

Quote from: Rossfan on October 03, 2022, 04:08:21 PM
True enough Bunker but I'd say a lot less neutrals go to games any more

People pack out soccer stadiums to watch the players stroll around and roll the ball back and forth to each other for 90 minutes.

How many are neutral?
What percentage of massive urban populations go to those games?
Not to mention non stop media glorification etc etc

The issue is that referees allow mass fouling which is not within the rules of the game but punish individual indiscretions harshly.

So in scenario A a forward gets the ball and is surrounded by multiple players holding and slapping at him, invariably the player on the ball gets blown up for overcarrying. Any sensible interpretation of the current rules dictates that this is a free in but that's not how it is currently reffed.

In scenario B a forward gets the ball and is 1 on 1 with a defender. In this case any contact from the defender no matter how slight that results in the attacking player being held up, [or if he's smart, going to ground], will inevitably result in a free in. The attacking player in this case is also allowed a large degree of latitude in number of steps taken.

It therefore makes sense if you are a manager to minimize, if not eradicate, the amount of times your players are in a 1 to 1 situation and make sure that you get loads of bodies back to surround attacking players as you have the advantage in this case.

If however surrounding a player and fouling him resulted in a free in, as it should in many cases, combined with allowing a more robust tackle in a 1 to 1 situation there would not be the incentive for managers to instruct players to pack their defence.

To me the way the game is reffed is completely counterintuitive and is largely responsible for the spectacle we see at the minute. 

This isn't a pop at the refereeing fraternity btw they are obviously been coached to interpret the rules in this manner.

Quote from: Keyser soze on October 04, 2022, 01:32:57 PM
The issue is that referees allow mass fouling which is not within the rules of the game but punish individual indiscretions harshly.

So in scenario A a forward gets the ball and is surrounded by multiple players holding and slapping at him, invariably the player on the ball gets blown up for overcarrying. Any sensible interpretation of the current rules dictates that this is a free in but that's not how it is currently reffed.

In scenario B a forward gets the ball and is 1 on 1 with a defender. In this case any contact from the defender no matter how slight that results in the attacking player being held up, [or if he's smart, going to ground], will inevitably result in a free in. The attacking player in this case is also allowed a large degree of latitude in number of steps taken.

It therefore makes sense if you are a manager to minimize, if not eradicate, the amount of times your players are in a 1 to 1 situation and make sure that you get loads of bodies back to surround attacking players as you have the advantage in this case.

If however surrounding a player and fouling him resulted in a free in, as it should in many cases, combined with allowing a more robust tackle in a 1 to 1 situation there would not be the incentive for managers to instruct players to pack their defence.

To me the way the game is reffed is completely counterintuitive and is largely responsible for the spectacle we see at the minute. 

This isn't a pop at the refereeing fraternity btw they are obviously been coached to interpret the rules in this manner.

WTF!!

Ive highlighted what you have written... Holding and slapping is always a foul, I don't know any ref that see's that any different, holding is a foul and slapping someone is a foul, the difference is if they are not being pulled or they are slapping the ball then its not a foul, you can crowd him out and its up to the player to drop the ball as he's not trying to play it, overcarrying

Then you go on to say any contact and the ref blows a foul? Football bar a shoulder to shoulder is non contact so if the contact is trying to play the ball then its ok, another contact its a foul, the reality is simple though, its not your opinion that counts, because you are not refereeing the game.

No one is being coached to allow frees and call for no 'frees'

Quote from: Keyser soze on October 04, 2022, 01:32:57 PM
The issue is that referees allow mass fouling which is not within the rules of the game but punish individual indiscretions harshly.

So in scenario A a forward gets the ball and is surrounded by multiple players holding and slapping at him, invariably the player on the ball gets blown up for overcarrying. Any sensible interpretation of the current rules dictates that this is a free in but that's not how it is currently reffed.

In scenario B a forward gets the ball and is 1 on 1 with a defender. In this case any contact from the defender no matter how slight that results in the attacking player being held up, [or if he's smart, going to ground], will inevitably result in a free in. The attacking player in this case is also allowed a large degree of latitude in number of steps taken.

It therefore makes sense if you are a manager to minimize, if not eradicate, the amount of times your players are in a 1 to 1 situation and make sure that you get loads of bodies back to surround attacking players as you have the advantage in this case.

If however surrounding a player and fouling him resulted in a free in, as it should in many cases, combined with allowing a more robust tackle in a 1 to 1 situation there would not be the incentive for managers to instruct players to pack their defence.

To me the way the game is reffed is completely counterintuitive and is largely responsible for the spectacle we see at the minute. 

This isn't a pop at the refereeing fraternity btw they are obviously been coached to interpret the rules in this manner.

Good point, not something I've really thought of before

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2022, 01:47:41 PM

Quote from: Keyser soze on October 04, 2022, 01:32:57 PM
The issue is that referees allow mass fouling which is not within the rules of the game but punish individual indiscretions harshly.

So in scenario A a forward gets the ball and is surrounded by multiple players holding and slapping at him, invariably the player on the ball gets blown up for overcarrying. Any sensible interpretation of the current rules dictates that this is a free in but that's not how it is currently reffed.

In scenario B a forward gets the ball and is 1 on 1 with a defender. In this case any contact from the defender no matter how slight that results in the attacking player being held up, [or if he's smart, going to ground], will inevitably result in a free in. The attacking player in this case is also allowed a large degree of latitude in number of steps taken.

It therefore makes sense if you are a manager to minimize, if not eradicate, the amount of times your players are in a 1 to 1 situation and make sure that you get loads of bodies back to surround attacking players as you have the advantage in this case.

If however surrounding a player and fouling him resulted in a free in, as it should in many cases, combined with allowing a more robust tackle in a 1 to 1 situation there would not be the incentive for managers to instruct players to pack their defence.

To me the way the game is reffed is completely counterintuitive and is largely responsible for the spectacle we see at the minute. 

This isn't a pop at the refereeing fraternity btw they are obviously been coached to interpret the rules in this manner.

WTF!!

Ive highlighted what you have written... Holding and slapping is always a foul, I don't know any ref that see's that any different, holding is a foul and slapping someone is a foul, the difference is if they are not being pulled or they are slapping the ball then its not a foul, you can crowd him out and its up to the player to drop the ball as he's not trying to play it, overcarrying

Then you go on to say any contact and the ref blows a foul? Football bar a shoulder to shoulder is non contact so if the contact is trying to play the ball then its ok, another contact its a foul, the reality is simple though, its not your opinion that counts, because you are not refereeing the game.

No one is being coached to allow frees and call for no 'frees'

The referee is always right.

Quote from: Keyser soze on October 04, 2022, 02:58:16 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2022, 01:47:41 PM

Quote from: Keyser soze on October 04, 2022, 01:32:57 PM
The issue is that referees allow mass fouling which is not within the rules of the game but punish individual indiscretions harshly.

So in scenario A a forward gets the ball and is surrounded by multiple players holding and slapping at him, invariably the player on the ball gets blown up for overcarrying. Any sensible interpretation of the current rules dictates that this is a free in but that's not how it is currently reffed.

In scenario B a forward gets the ball and is 1 on 1 with a defender. In this case any contact from the defender no matter how slight that results in the attacking player being held up, [or if he's smart, going to ground], will inevitably result in a free in. The attacking player in this case is also allowed a large degree of latitude in number of steps taken.

It therefore makes sense if you are a manager to minimize, if not eradicate, the amount of times your players are in a 1 to 1 situation and make sure that you get loads of bodies back to surround attacking players as you have the advantage in this case.

If however surrounding a player and fouling him resulted in a free in, as it should in many cases, combined with allowing a more robust tackle in a 1 to 1 situation there would not be the incentive for managers to instruct players to pack their defence.

To me the way the game is reffed is completely counterintuitive and is largely responsible for the spectacle we see at the minute. 

This isn't a pop at the refereeing fraternity btw they are obviously been coached to interpret the rules in this manner.

WTF!!

Ive highlighted what you have written... Holding and slapping is always a foul, I don't know any ref that see's that any different, holding is a foul and slapping someone is a foul, the difference is if they are not being pulled or they are slapping the ball then its not a foul, you can crowd him out and its up to the player to drop the ball as he's not trying to play it, overcarrying

Then you go on to say any contact and the ref blows a foul? Football bar a shoulder to shoulder is non contact so if the contact is trying to play the ball then its ok, another contact its a foul, the reality is simple though, its not your opinion that counts, because you are not refereeing the game.

No one is being coached to allow frees and call for no 'frees'

The referee is always right.

Whether he's your right or your wrong he's at least brave enough to do the course and call it as he sees it. You claim these scenarios are standard. I'll claim they aren't. Who's right?

As a coach and referee, I've said for ages, people are trying to 'rule' their way into making the game more appeaseable for people.
Why spend time trying to draw up rules about numbers of handpasses, players in zones, backward passes?

One, well 2 changes which would work an absolute treat as far as I can see would be games played at 13 aside and removal of the forward mark.

- Addresses concerns about dropping men back as too much space to cover with 2 players less
- Harder on teams that rely on group tackling
- Rewards an attack minded team and also players who can make space and win ball, especially with ball kicked in earlier as a result of the space

Would be worth trialling it in a competition that actually means something to coaches and players i.e the Mac Rory Cup schools competition and the other provincial bodys comps

Quote from: Armagh Cúchulainns on October 04, 2022, 06:48:30 PM
As a coach and referee, I've said for ages, people are trying to 'rule' their way into making the game more appeaseable for people.
Why spend time trying to draw up rules about numbers of handpasses, players in zones, backward passes?

One, well 2 changes which would work an absolute treat as far as I can see would be games played at 13 aside and removal of the forward mark.

- Addresses concerns about dropping men back as too much space to cover with 2 players less
- Harder on teams that rely on group tackling
- Rewards an attack minded team and also players who can make space and win ball, especially with ball kicked in earlier as a result of the space

Would be worth trialling it in a competition that actually means something to coaches and players i.e the Mac Rory Cup schools competition and the other provincial bodys comps

Agree with this; 13-a-side would also make it easier for smaller clubs/counties to compete. A small club might have 13 decent players, less likely to have 15

Quote from: befair on October 04, 2022, 11:46:01 PM

Quote from: Armagh Cúchulainns on October 04, 2022, 06:48:30 PM
As a coach and referee, I've said for ages, people are trying to 'rule' their way into making the game more appeaseable for people.
Why spend time trying to draw up rules about numbers of handpasses, players in zones, backward passes?

One, well 2 changes which would work an absolute treat as far as I can see would be games played at 13 aside and removal of the forward mark.

- Addresses concerns about dropping men back as too much space to cover with 2 players less
- Harder on teams that rely on group tackling
- Rewards an attack minded team and also players who can make space and win ball, especially with ball kicked in earlier as a result of the space

Would be worth trialling it in a competition that actually means something to coaches and players i.e the Mac Rory Cup schools competition and the other provincial bodys comps

Agree with this; 13-a-side would also make it easier for smaller clubs/counties to compete. A small club might have 13 decent players, less likely to have 15

13 a-side is tough going on a big pitch, would certainly be worth trying though

Quote from: Armagh18 on October 05, 2022, 10:28:51 AM

Quote from: befair on October 04, 2022, 11:46:01 PM

Quote from: Armagh Cúchulainns on October 04, 2022, 06:48:30 PM
As a coach and referee, I've said for ages, people are trying to 'rule' their way into making the game more appeaseable for people.
Why spend time trying to draw up rules about numbers of handpasses, players in zones, backward passes?

One, well 2 changes which would work an absolute treat as far as I can see would be games played at 13 aside and removal of the forward mark.

- Addresses concerns about dropping men back as too much space to cover with 2 players less
- Harder on teams that rely on group tackling
- Rewards an attack minded team and also players who can make space and win ball, especially with ball kicked in earlier as a result of the space

Would be worth trialling it in a competition that actually means something to coaches and players i.e the Mac Rory Cup schools competition and the other provincial bodys comps

Agree with this; 13-a-side would also make it easier for smaller clubs/counties to compete. A small club might have 13 decent players, less likely to have 15

13 a-side is tough going on a big pitch, would certainly be worth trying though

Roll on subs might help

Quote from: Armagh18 on October 05, 2022, 10:28:51 AM

Quote from: befair on October 04, 2022, 11:46:01 PM

Quote from: Armagh Cúchulainns on October 04, 2022, 06:48:30 PM
As a coach and referee, I've said for ages, people are trying to 'rule' their way into making the game more appeaseable for people.
Why spend time trying to draw up rules about numbers of handpasses, players in zones, backward passes?

One, well 2 changes which would work an absolute treat as far as I can see would be games played at 13 aside and removal of the forward mark.

- Addresses concerns about dropping men back as too much space to cover with 2 players less
- Harder on teams that rely on group tackling
- Rewards an attack minded team and also players who can make space and win ball, especially with ball kicked in earlier as a result of the space

Would be worth trialling it in a competition that actually means something to coaches and players i.e the Mac Rory Cup schools competition and the other provincial bodys comps

Agree with this; 13-a-side would also make it easier for smaller clubs/counties to compete. A small club might have 13 decent players, less likely to have 15

13 a-side is tough going on a big pitch, would certainly be worth trying though

I played at McRory level in the 1970s (not very well!), and it was 13-a-side then; more space allowed more attacking football, tho the everyone-behind-the ball tactic hadn't been conceived then

Not sure if 13-a-side would work, teams might just put all 13 behind the ball

The only rule that needs changing is the forward mark, which is a terrible rule. After that, please leave well alone. There is a widespread tendency for critics to lament the loss of some golden era of Gaelic football which never actually existed. Watch any football from the seventies / eighties and see how awful the standard actually was.

I'm not a fan of the forward mark but I fail to see how its abolition is going to suddenly make football watchable and entertaining again or get rid of sideways backwards passing??

Quote from: Rossfan on October 05, 2022, 11:22:32 AM
I'm not a fan of the forward mark but I fail to see how its abolition is going to suddenly make football watchable and entertaining again or get rid of sideways backwards passing??

Agreed. Just to clarify, I was stating it's an awful rule that I would really like to see dumped, rather than it making any meaningful difference to the debate. I honestly believe there are too many rule changes being made to the game for very little / no gain.

Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on October 05, 2022, 11:16:57 AM
The only rule that needs changing is the forward mark, which is a terrible rule. After that, please leave well alone. There is a widespread tendency for critics to lament the loss of some golden era of Gaelic football which never actually existed. Watch any football from the seventies / eighties and see how awful the standard actually was.

I don't lament a golden era. Not even close.

But watching a team move the ball sideways in their own half, unopposed, for minutes at a time, is not entertainment. It's not sport. It's not skilful. It's not manly. It's not intelligent. It's just shit. Absolute shit. And it needs to be culled from the game.

Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2022, 11:33:14 AM

Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on October 05, 2022, 11:16:57 AM
The only rule that needs changing is the forward mark, which is a terrible rule. After that, please leave well alone. There is a widespread tendency for critics to lament the loss of some golden era of Gaelic football which never actually existed. Watch any football from the seventies / eighties and see how awful the standard actually was.

I don't lament a golden era. Not even close.

But watching a team move the ball sideways in their own half, unopposed, for minutes at a time, is not entertainment. It's not sport. It's not skilful. It's not manly. It's not intelligent. It's just shit. Absolute shit. And it needs to be culled from the game.

Up to the defending team to come out and try to win the ball. Teams only do this when they are ahead and other team sitting in. Why should winning team be punished for other team being over defensive?

Quote from: MajorShields26 on October 05, 2022, 11:44:33 AM

Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2022, 11:33:14 AM

Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on October 05, 2022, 11:16:57 AM
The only rule that needs changing is the forward mark, which is a terrible rule. After that, please leave well alone. There is a widespread tendency for critics to lament the loss of some golden era of Gaelic football which never actually existed. Watch any football from the seventies / eighties and see how awful the standard actually was.

I don't lament a golden era. Not even close.

But watching a team move the ball sideways in their own half, unopposed, for minutes at a time, is not entertainment. It's not sport. It's not skilful. It's not manly. It's not intelligent. It's just shit. Absolute shit. And it needs to be culled from the game.

Up to the defending team to come out and try to win the ball. Teams only do this when they are ahead and other team sitting in. Why should winning team be punished for other team being over defensive?

Nonsense. Absolute nonsense.

Every sport that has inadvertently created a situation where there is no need for both teams to attack, has sought to correct the anomaly, through rule changes.

Why in holy f**k'a name you are defending the one sport that hasn't, is beyond me. It's a form of masochism what you are going through, it really is.

Quote from: MajorShields26 on October 05, 2022, 11:44:33 AM

Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2022, 11:33:14 AM

Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on October 05, 2022, 11:16:57 AM
The only rule that needs changing is the forward mark, which is a terrible rule. After that, please leave well alone. There is a widespread tendency for critics to lament the loss of some golden era of Gaelic football which never actually existed. Watch any football from the seventies / eighties and see how awful the standard actually was.

I don't lament a golden era. Not even close.

But watching a team move the ball sideways in their own half, unopposed, for minutes at a time, is not entertainment. It's not sport. It's not skilful. It's not manly. It's not intelligent. It's just shit. Absolute shit. And it needs to be culled from the game.

Up to the defending team to come out and try to win the ball. Teams only do this when they are ahead and other team sitting in. Why should winning team be punished for other team being over defensive?

To say this only happens when teams are ahead and the other team are sitting in is not correct at all. This is in the Irish News match report from the Kilcoo/Mayobridge match report at the weekend:

"The scene was set from the throw-in. CJ Barr won the ball and Mayobridge hung on to it for four and-a-half minutes. Kilcoo retreated and the 'Bridge played back-and-across and across-and-back until they finally launched a long ball towards the Kilcoo posts."

Quote from: square_ball on October 05, 2022, 12:25:18 PM

Quote from: MajorShields26 on October 05, 2022, 11:44:33 AM

Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2022, 11:33:14 AM

Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on October 05, 2022, 11:16:57 AM
The only rule that needs changing is the forward mark, which is a terrible rule. After that, please leave well alone. There is a widespread tendency for critics to lament the loss of some golden era of Gaelic football which never actually existed. Watch any football from the seventies / eighties and see how awful the standard actually was.

I don't lament a golden era. Not even close.

But watching a team move the ball sideways in their own half, unopposed, for minutes at a time, is not entertainment. It's not sport. It's not skilful. It's not manly. It's not intelligent. It's just shit. Absolute shit. And it needs to be culled from the game.

Up to the defending team to come out and try to win the ball. Teams only do this when they are ahead and other team sitting in. Why should winning team be punished for other team being over defensive?

To say this only happens when teams are ahead and the other team are sitting in is not correct at all. This is in the Irish News match report from the Kilcoo/Mayobridge match report at the weekend:

"The scene was set from the throw-in. CJ Barr won the ball and Mayobridge hung on to it for four and-a-half minutes. Kilcoo retreated and the 'Bridge played back-and-across and across-and-back until they finally launched a long ball towards the Kilcoo posts."

It dawned on me to to check where MajorShields26 is from and it makes more sense now. He's one of those wans who unknowingly have had their wits and tastebuds reprogrammed this year by the sweet smell of success.

Don't worry MajorShields. As the current Derry side have already reached their absolute pinnacle and things can only get worse, I can assure you that you will start to feel mostly normal again by June 2023, and by mid-2024 you will utterly despise the possession oriented tactics so replete in modern Gaelic football.

Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2022, 11:48:33 AM

Quote from: MajorShields26 on October 05, 2022, 11:44:33 AM

Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2022, 11:33:14 AM

Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on October 05, 2022, 11:16:57 AM
The only rule that needs changing is the forward mark, which is a terrible rule. After that, please leave well alone. There is a widespread tendency for critics to lament the loss of some golden era of Gaelic football which never actually existed. Watch any football from the seventies / eighties and see how awful the standard actually was.

I don't lament a golden era. Not even close.

But watching a team move the ball sideways in their own half, unopposed, for minutes at a time, is not entertainment. It's not sport. It's not skilful. It's not manly. It's not intelligent. It's just shit. Absolute shit. And it needs to be culled from the game.

Up to the defending team to come out and try to win the ball. Teams only do this when they are ahead and other team sitting in. Why should winning team be punished for other team being over defensive?

Nonsense. Absolute nonsense.

Every sport that has inadvertently created a situation where there is no need for both teams to attack, has sought to correct the anomaly, through rule changes.

Why in holy f**k'a name you are defending the one sport that hasn't, is beyond me. It's a form of masochism what you are going through, it really is.

Lad your talking shite. Ridiculously naive. Defending team sitting back when behind is beyond dumb. Should be weeded out of game. 13 aside would fix everything. It would be impossible to cover all the space in scoring zone with 13 men. People that think defending team should sit in when behind are so dumb.

Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2022, 12:39:36 PM

Quote from: square_ball on October 05, 2022, 12:25:18 PM

Quote from: MajorShields26 on October 05, 2022, 11:44:33 AM

Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2022, 11:33:14 AM

Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on October 05, 2022, 11:16:57 AM
The only rule that needs changing is the forward mark, which is a terrible rule. After that, please leave well alone. There is a widespread tendency for critics to lament the loss of some golden era of Gaelic football which never actually existed. Watch any football from the seventies / eighties and see how awful the standard actually was.

I don't lament a golden era. Not even close.

But watching a team move the ball sideways in their own half, unopposed, for minutes at a time, is not entertainment. It's not sport. It's not skilful. It's not manly. It's not intelligent. It's just shit. Absolute shit. And it needs to be culled from the game.

Up to the defending team to come out and try to win the ball. Teams only do this when they are ahead and other team sitting in. Why should winning team be punished for other team being over defensive?

To say this only happens when teams are ahead and the other team are sitting in is not correct at all. This is in the Irish News match report from the Kilcoo/Mayobridge match report at the weekend:

"The scene was set from the throw-in. CJ Barr won the ball and Mayobridge hung on to it for four and-a-half minutes. Kilcoo retreated and the 'Bridge played back-and-across and across-and-back until they finally launched a long ball towards the Kilcoo posts."

It dawned on me to to check where MajorShields26 is from and it makes more sense now. He's one of those wans who unknowingly have had their wits and tastebuds reprogrammed this year by the sweet smell of success.

Don't worry MajorShields. As the current Derry side have already reached their absolute pinnacle and things can only get worse, I can assure you that you will start to feel mostly normal again by June 2023, and by mid-2024 you will utterly despise the possession oriented tactics so replete in modern Gaelic football.

Possession isn't the problem. It's the blanket defensive system. Obviously

Quote from: square_ball on October 05, 2022, 12:25:18 PM

Quote from: MajorShields26 on October 05, 2022, 11:44:33 AM

Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2022, 11:33:14 AM

Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on October 05, 2022, 11:16:57 AM
The only rule that needs changing is the forward mark, which is a terrible rule. After that, please leave well alone. There is a widespread tendency for critics to lament the loss of some golden era of Gaelic football which never actually existed. Watch any football from the seventies / eighties and see how awful the standard actually was.

I don't lament a golden era. Not even close.

But watching a team move the ball sideways in their own half, unopposed, for minutes at a time, is not entertainment. It's not sport. It's not skilful. It's not manly. It's not intelligent. It's just shit. Absolute shit. And it needs to be culled from the game.

Up to the defending team to come out and try to win the ball. Teams only do this when they are ahead and other team sitting in. Why should winning team be punished for other team being over defensive?

To say this only happens when teams are ahead and the other team are sitting in is not correct at all. This is in the Irish News match report from the Kilcoo/Mayobridge match report at the weekend:

"The scene was set from the throw-in. CJ Barr won the ball and Mayobridge hung on to it for four and-a-half minutes. Kilcoo retreated and the 'Bridge played back-and-across and across-and-back until they finally launched a long ball towards the Kilcoo posts."

That's those Down ones. You're badly stuck if you're going to watch them ;)

Quote from: MajorShields26 on October 05, 2022, 12:41:03 PM

Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2022, 11:48:33 AM

Quote from: MajorShields26 on October 05, 2022, 11:44:33 AM

Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2022, 11:33:14 AM

Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on October 05, 2022, 11:16:57 AM
The only rule that needs changing is the forward mark, which is a terrible rule. After that, please leave well alone. There is a widespread tendency for critics to lament the loss of some golden era of Gaelic football which never actually existed. Watch any football from the seventies / eighties and see how awful the standard actually was.

I don't lament a golden era. Not even close.

But watching a team move the ball sideways in their own half, unopposed, for minutes at a time, is not entertainment. It's not sport. It's not skilful. It's not manly. It's not intelligent. It's just shit. Absolute shit. And it needs to be culled from the game.

Up to the defending team to come out and try to win the ball. Teams only do this when they are ahead and other team sitting in. Why should winning team be punished for other team being over defensive?

Nonsense. Absolute nonsense.

Every sport that has inadvertently created a situation where there is no need for both teams to attack, has sought to correct the anomaly, through rule changes.

Why in holy f**k'a name you are defending the one sport that hasn't, is beyond me. It's a form of masochism what you are going through, it really is.

Lad your talking shite. Ridiculously naive. Defending team sitting back when behind is beyond dumb. Should be weeded out of game. 13 aside would fix everything. It would be impossible to cover all the space in scoring zone with 13 men. People that think defending team should sit in when behind are so dumb.

Naive?

I've watched plenty of teams the past decade play "successful" ultra-negative football when a man down.

13 a side would make more space. But the downside is that it would give even more room again for endless, skill-less ball retention.

And it would make for a worse game.

This is really obvious when you think about it.

Naive?

You're brainwashed at the minute. Drunk on success. It will though wear off.

——

Regarding your next post.

Blanket defences primarily exist because possession is overwhelmingly more useful than territory in Gaelic Football.

The correct rule change will make it rewarding, indeed essential, to have early and multiple territorial options.

Quote from: Armagh18 on October 05, 2022, 12:55:53 PM

Quote from: square_ball on October 05, 2022, 12:25:18 PM

Quote from: MajorShields26 on October 05, 2022, 11:44:33 AM

Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2022, 11:33:14 AM

Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on October 05, 2022, 11:16:57 AM
The only rule that needs changing is the forward mark, which is a terrible rule. After that, please leave well alone. There is a widespread tendency for critics to lament the loss of some golden era of Gaelic football which never actually existed. Watch any football from the seventies / eighties and see how awful the standard actually was.

I don't lament a golden era. Not even close.

But watching a team move the ball sideways in their own half, unopposed, for minutes at a time, is not entertainment. It's not sport. It's not skilful. It's not manly. It's not intelligent. It's just shit. Absolute shit. And it needs to be culled from the game.

Up to the defending team to come out and try to win the ball. Teams only do this when they are ahead and other team sitting in. Why should winning team be punished for other team being over defensive?

To say this only happens when teams are ahead and the other team are sitting in is not correct at all. This is in the Irish News match report from the Kilcoo/Mayobridge match report at the weekend:

"The scene was set from the throw-in. CJ Barr won the ball and Mayobridge hung on to it for four and-a-half minutes. Kilcoo retreated and the 'Bridge played back-and-across and across-and-back until they finally launched a long ball towards the Kilcoo posts."

That's those Down ones. You're badly stuck if you're going to watch them ;)

It would make you wonder what ever happened the 'Down way'. Their club football must be the worst spectacle in Ulster as most of the teams play a defensive possession based running game. All trying to beat Kilcoo at their own game.

Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2022, 12:57:22 PM

Quote from: MajorShields26 on October 05, 2022, 12:41:03 PM

Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2022, 11:48:33 AM

Quote from: MajorShields26 on October 05, 2022, 11:44:33 AM

Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2022, 11:33:14 AM

Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on October 05, 2022, 11:16:57 AM
The only rule that needs changing is the forward mark, which is a terrible rule. After that, please leave well alone. There is a widespread tendency for critics to lament the loss of some golden era of Gaelic football which never actually existed. Watch any football from the seventies / eighties and see how awful the standard actually was.

I don't lament a golden era. Not even close.

But watching a team move the ball sideways in their own half, unopposed, for minutes at a time, is not entertainment. It's not sport. It's not skilful. It's not manly. It's not intelligent. It's just shit. Absolute shit. And it needs to be culled from the game.

Up to the defending team to come out and try to win the ball. Teams only do this when they are ahead and other team sitting in. Why should winning team be punished for other team being over defensive?

Nonsense. Absolute nonsense.

Every sport that has inadvertently created a situation where there is no need for both teams to attack, has sought to correct the anomaly, through rule changes.

Why in holy f**k'a name you are defending the one sport that hasn't, is beyond me. It's a form of masochism what you are going through, it really is.

Lad your talking shite. Ridiculously naive. Defending team sitting back when behind is beyond dumb. Should be weeded out of game. 13 aside would fix everything. It would be impossible to cover all the space in scoring zone with 13 men. People that think defending team should sit in when behind are so dumb.

Naive?

I've watched plenty of teams the past decade play "successful" ultra-negative football when a man down.

13 a side would make more space. But the downside is that it would give even more room again for endless, skill-less ball retention.

And it would make for a worse game.

This is really obvious when you think about it.

Naive?

You're brainwashed at the minute. Drunk on success. It will though wear off.

——

Regarding your next post.

Blanket defences primarily exist because possession is overwhelmingly more useful than territory in Gaelic Football.

The correct rule change will make it rewarding, indeed essential, to have early and multiple territorial options.

Not true. Blanket defence came prior to possession football. It is in fact the whole reason possession football exists. far harder to keep the ball if being marked man to man. Why reward a team for sitting back when losing instead of chasing the ball?

If we put things in to stop teams keeping possession such as a shot clock we would essentially have a game where a team defends for 1 minute until other team kicks it away to them and then they go up and do it on other side. It Would become a pointless game where defensives are being rewarded for sitting in and not engaging.

Quote from: MajorShields26 on October 05, 2022, 02:29:00 PM

Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2022, 12:57:22 PM

Quote from: MajorShields26 on October 05, 2022, 12:41:03 PM

Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2022, 11:48:33 AM

Quote from: MajorShields26 on October 05, 2022, 11:44:33 AM

Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2022, 11:33:14 AM

Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on October 05, 2022, 11:16:57 AM
The only rule that needs changing is the forward mark, which is a terrible rule. After that, please leave well alone. There is a widespread tendency for critics to lament the loss of some golden era of Gaelic football which never actually existed. Watch any football from the seventies / eighties and see how awful the standard actually was.

I don't lament a golden era. Not even close.

But watching a team move the ball sideways in their own half, unopposed, for minutes at a time, is not entertainment. It's not sport. It's not skilful. It's not manly. It's not intelligent. It's just shit. Absolute shit. And it needs to be culled from the game.

Up to the defending team to come out and try to win the ball. Teams only do this when they are ahead and other team sitting in. Why should winning team be punished for other team being over defensive?

Nonsense. Absolute nonsense.

Every sport that has inadvertently created a situation where there is no need for both teams to attack, has sought to correct the anomaly, through rule changes.

Why in holy f**k'a name you are defending the one sport that hasn't, is beyond me. It's a form of masochism what you are going through, it really is.

Lad your talking shite. Ridiculously naive. Defending team sitting back when behind is beyond dumb. Should be weeded out of game. 13 aside would fix everything. It would be impossible to cover all the space in scoring zone with 13 men. People that think defending team should sit in when behind are so dumb.

Naive?

I've watched plenty of teams the past decade play "successful" ultra-negative football when a man down.

13 a side would make more space. But the downside is that it would give even more room again for endless, skill-less ball retention.

And it would make for a worse game.

This is really obvious when you think about it.

Naive?

You're brainwashed at the minute. Drunk on success. It will though wear off.

——

Regarding your next post.

Blanket defences primarily exist because possession is overwhelmingly more useful than territory in Gaelic Football.

The correct rule change will make it rewarding, indeed essential, to have early and multiple territorial options.

Not true. Blanket defence came prior to possession football. It is in fact the whole reason possession football exists. far harder to keep the ball if being marked man to man. Why reward a team for sitting back when losing instead of chasing the ball?

If we put things in to stop teams keeping possession such as a shot clock we would essentially have a game where a team defends for 1 minute until other team kicks it away to them and then they go up and do it on other side. It Would become a pointless game where defensives are being rewarded for sitting in and not engaging.

A shot clock is never going to work for the reasons you have said. The only thing that could work in theory is some kind of rule where you must have x amount of players in the oppositions half at all times, but this would be impossible to police.

A foul for passing the ball back across either 45 requires no technology and would be easy to assess. If punished with a 45 for the opposition (from hands or the ground), it would be a suitable deterrent.

The team without the ball gets a reward for pushing up and pushing the opposition out (instead of the current situation whereby they often get punished by having to travel from one end of the field to then other if pressing) in that their opponent's playing area is immediately reduced in size. The requirement for always having an emergency/ preferred out ball encourages the possession team to keep players close to the opposing call.

It'll take a manager or coach to just go f it, we're gonna leave our 6 forwards up and play them man for man when opposition has the ball, you're gonna concede scores but I'm yet to see a tactic which won't concede scores. I genuinely don't know how some teams would react to not having the time on the ball. Turn the team over in their own half enough times and they'll soon want to get the ball forward. It boils down to managers being brave and backing their players .

Good suggestion on the Down thread about moving kickouts back to edge of small square, would make the short kickout more difficult and would encourage teams to press up.

The introduction of the forward and defensive mark IMO has reduced the level of skill in the game and deprived us with the opportunity to see evasive forward play, forwards taking defenders on and likewise defenders defending 1 on 1. It largely came about because of the blanket defenses.  Think of Canavan's goal v Kerry in 05.  If Mulligan calls the mark we don't get to see Canavan's incredible finish.  Midfield mark promotes high fielding so no issue with that.

Totally agree with that. The mark is making the game less exciting. I would add the fisted point to that.

Quote from: smort on October 05, 2022, 04:10:00 PM
Good suggestion on the Down thread about moving kickouts back to edge of small square, would make the short kickout more difficult and would encourage teams to press up.

It could actually have the opposite effect . A keeper can set the ball down and get it away quicker as he only has to run to smaller square rather than 20m. Any rule changes need to be tested in competitive games to test these unintended consequences rather than knee jerk changes. Rather than over complicate things I would keep any change simple eg no backpasses in own half, and test it for a full year in a semi-competitive environment ( ie not league or championship)

Quote from: smort on October 05, 2022, 04:10:00 PM
Good suggestion on the Down thread about moving kickouts back to edge of small square, would make the short kickout more difficult and would encourage teams to press up.

was the idea behind that rule not to leave less space for short kick outs?

Seen a young lad wearing a captains armband the other night in an u15 game. Do you think this could come into GAA more? I know big soccer idea but would make it easy for supporters to identify and see contribution from captain. It may have a  psychological for the player wearing to be a real leader? And bring us back to glory days. 

Quote from: MajorShields26 on October 05, 2022, 08:48:13 PM
Seen a young lad wearing a captains armband the other night in an u15 game. Do you think this could come into GAA more? I know big soccer idea but would make it easy for supporters to identify and see contribution from captain. It may have a  psychological for the player wearing to be a real leader? And bring us back to glory days.

A captain's armband! Of all the rule changes in the world you you come up with that lol

Quote from: Truth hurts on October 06, 2022, 08:34:48 AM

Quote from: MajorShields26 on October 05, 2022, 08:48:13 PM
Seen a young lad wearing a captains armband the other night in an u15 game. Do you think this could come into GAA more? I know big soccer idea but would make it easy for supporters to identify and see contribution from captain. It may have a  psychological for the player wearing to be a real leader? And bring us back to glory days.

A captain's armband! Of all the rule changes in the world you you come up with that lol

If I seen some kid come up to me taking the toss with a fecking armband on saying captain on it he'd lose the call every time lol

Do you have one of those coins with heads or tails both sides to suit occasions like this  ;D

Quote from: imtommygunn on October 06, 2022, 09:01:40 AM
Do you have one of those coins with heads or tails both sides to suit occasions like this  ;D

You ask them first, throw it up and catch it and say whatever side fits  ;)   

Ah never show them. I'd be asking you if I were them  ;D

Quote from: imtommygunn on October 06, 2022, 10:47:57 AM
Ah never show them. I'd be asking you if I were them  ;D

You don't want to be insinuating the Ref is a liar before the ball is thrown in.

Possession problem is easily solved . Just allow a fecking tackle . A good rough just short of dangerous tackle.
thats how any gobdaw hanging onto the ball refusing to play in football has always been treated

Quote from: LeoMc on October 06, 2022, 12:21:52 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on October 06, 2022, 10:47:57 AM
Ah never show them. I'd be asking you if I were them  ;D

You don't want to be insinuating the Ref is a liar before the ball is thrown in.

Sure he's a liar the whole way through the game :D

Quote from: MajorShields26 on October 05, 2022, 08:48:13 PM
Seen a young lad wearing a captains armband the other night in an u15 game. Do you think this could come into GAA more? I know big soccer idea but would make it easy for supporters to identify and see contribution from captain. It may have a  psychological for the player wearing to be a real leader? And bring us back to glory days.

Of all the shi*e i've seen you post this one makes the most sense. I think this would really give some players the pride and determination to become a proper captain for their club. The only problem is would the GAA community accept this? The community are too short-sighted and are still living in the past! It may also give the prods a bit of incentive to come out and give it a go, which could possibly benefit the chance of a united Ireland??? Great cross-community idea #UnitedIreland

Have been giving this a good amount of thought. What about a VAR type referee be brought into the game? Too many games these days have huge decisions made that are incorrect, shifting the momentum of the game. If a video referee was brought in, this wouldn't be the case and it also might take a bit of pressure off the actual referees. For example, Galway should of been awarded penalty in AI final then Kerry went other end and scored point. 4 point swing? Why are we allowing elite teams to influence referees to not give decisions for opposition #DaylightRobbery

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 06, 2022, 08:57:33 AM

Quote from: Truth hurts on October 06, 2022, 08:34:48 AM

Quote from: MajorShields26 on October 05, 2022, 08:48:13 PM
Seen a young lad wearing a captains armband the other night in an u15 game. Do you think this could come into GAA more? I know big soccer idea but would make it easy for supporters to identify and see contribution from captain. It may have a  psychological for the player wearing to be a real leader? And bring us back to glory days.

A captain's armband! Of all the rule changes in the world you you come up with that lol

Have seen this a couple of times over the last few years in Tyrone. Whilst I don't agree with it they are not hurting anybody and might help get a few more young lads into the game if they want to be visibly seen as captain. If it is going to be in the game they could take a leaf out of the NFL were the captains have a patch on their jersey as opposed to that soccer s****.

If I seen some kid come up to me taking the toss with a fecking armband on saying captain on it he'd lose the call every time lol

Quote from: Handpass123 on October 06, 2022, 01:34:22 PM
Have been giving this a good amount of thought. What about a VAR type referee be brought into the game? Too many games these days have huge decisions made that are incorrect, shifting the momentum of the game. If a video referee was brought in, this wouldn't be the case and it also might take a bit of pressure off the actual referees. For example, Galway should of been awarded penalty in AI final then Kerry went other end and scored point. 4 point swing? Why are we allowing elite teams to influence referees to not give decisions for opposition #DaylightRobbery

What's next offside as well? The gaa will never introduce VAR. perhaps a second referee might help but again both referees will have different interpretations of the rules. Would need two whistles also...

Quote from: TirEoghainGael on October 06, 2022, 02:51:03 PM

Quote from: Handpass123 on October 06, 2022, 01:34:22 PM
Have been giving this a good amount of thought. What about a VAR type referee be brought into the game? Too many games these days have huge decisions made that are incorrect, shifting the momentum of the game. If a video referee was brought in, this wouldn't be the case and it also might take a bit of pressure off the actual referees. For example, Galway should of been awarded penalty in AI final then Kerry went other end and scored point. 4 point swing? Why are we allowing elite teams to influence referees to not give decisions for opposition #DaylightRobbery

What's next offside as well? The gaa will never introduce VAR. perhaps a second referee might help but again both referees will have different interpretations of the rules. Would need two whistles also...

Was offside not brought in in soccer to prevent blanket defences? That could be our solution right there. I can just imagine reserve league division 2 games being held up for a few minutes while a VAR panel in Dublin debates a tight call.

Quote from: lenny on October 06, 2022, 03:19:19 PM

Quote from: TirEoghainGael on October 06, 2022, 02:51:03 PM

Quote from: Handpass123 on October 06, 2022, 01:34:22 PM
Have been giving this a good amount of thought. What about a VAR type referee be brought into the game? Too many games these days have huge decisions made that are incorrect, shifting the momentum of the game. If a video referee was brought in, this wouldn't be the case and it also might take a bit of pressure off the actual referees. For example, Galway should of been awarded penalty in AI final then Kerry went other end and scored point. 4 point swing? Why are we allowing elite teams to influence referees to not give decisions for opposition #DaylightRobbery

What's next offside as well? The gaa will never introduce VAR. perhaps a second referee might help but again both referees will have different interpretations of the rules. Would need two whistles also...

Was offside not brought in in soccer to prevent blanket defences? That could be our solution right there. I can just imagine reserve league division 2 games being held up for a few minutes while a VAR panel in Dublin debates a tight call.

Off side was brought in in soccer to prevent a forward standing beside the opposition goal keeper and a team just hoofing the ball in to him every time.

Quote from: lenny on October 06, 2022, 03:19:19 PM

Quote from: TirEoghainGael on October 06, 2022, 02:51:03 PM

Quote from: Handpass123 on October 06, 2022, 01:34:22 PM
Have been giving this a good amount of thought. What about a VAR type referee be brought into the game? Too many games these days have huge decisions made that are incorrect, shifting the momentum of the game. If a video referee was brought in, this wouldn't be the case and it also might take a bit of pressure off the actual referees. For example, Galway should of been awarded penalty in AI final then Kerry went other end and scored point. 4 point swing? Why are we allowing elite teams to influence referees to not give decisions for opposition #DaylightRobbery

What's next offside as well? The gaa will never introduce VAR. perhaps a second referee might help but again both referees will have different interpretations of the rules. Would need two whistles also...

Was offside not brought in in soccer to prevent blanket defences? That could be our solution right there. I can just imagine reserve league division 2 games being held up for a few minutes while a VAR panel in Dublin debates a tight call.

Can you imagine the absolute abuse a linesman would take from players and spectators in club football for a contentious offside call!

"How's he ref?"

"You stupid, fat/baldy, blind bollocks! No way was I/he/she off!".

And then the Sunday Game microanalyzing millimetre decisions!

Quote from: TirEoghainGael on October 06, 2022, 02:44:46 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 06, 2022, 08:57:33 AM

Quote from: Truth hurts on October 06, 2022, 08:34:48 AM

Quote from: MajorShields26 on October 05, 2022, 08:48:13 PM
Seen a young lad wearing a captains armband the other night in an u15 game. Do you think this could come into GAA more? I know big soccer idea but would make it easy for supporters to identify and see contribution from captain. It may have a  psychological for the player wearing to be a real leader? And bring us back to glory days.

A captain's armband! Of all the rule changes in the world you you come up with that lol

Have seen this a couple of times over the last few years in Tyrone. Whilst I don't agree with it they are not hurting anybody and might help get a few more young lads into the game if they want to be visibly seen as captain. If it is going to be in the game they could take a leaf out of the NFL were the captains have a patch on their jersey as opposed to that soccer s****.

If I seen some kid come up to me taking the toss with a fecking armband on saying captain on it he'd lose the call every time lol

Not sure about this might be a nightmare for clubs asking oneills to sew a captain patch to certain number. Especially if players play different positions every week or captains change. Could be a handling also if DIY sew job is done. I imagine many players wanting to be captain would get it done and then it would cause confusion amongst the stands as to who is captain causing the whole thing to be pointless. Captain arm band the way forward if we are going to do anything I think.

Not sure VAR would be used in reserve games however if clubs had technology and referees available it might work. VAR in big championship and league games would be class I think. The excitement it brings would make the boring product of Gaelic football far more watchable? Trial it out anyway and we might see referees given a bit more respect for willing to deal with new technology?

Two referees is an interesting idea but the two whistles would cause a problem I think. Maybe one could use the whistle in the first half and one could use it in the second half. Would help solve it. Refs would also only take half as much abuse.

Regarding offside, don't be silly of course this won't be brought in. Most men man mark from the front, like we coach children. The forward would be permantly offside. Imagine goals being ruled out for being offside. The logistics would be a nightmare especially underage games teaching children awkward rules. Just do away with handpass and teach children to kick and catch and we have a better game

The simplest cure for abuse is to require refs and players to wear mics, which is perfectly technically possible. Any ffing the ref and you are off and the recording is submitted to a disciplinary panel.
Not sure what to do about spectators, but this things have to brought under control or there will be no refs for games, I see today that the Camogie association have problems too https://www.rte.ie/sport/camogie/2022/1006/1327517-dublin-camogie-warns-clubs-on-abuse-of-match-officials/

Quote from: armaghniac on October 06, 2022, 05:33:22 PM
The simplest cure for abuse is to require refs and players to wear mics, which is perfectly technically possible. Any ffing the ref and you are off and the recording is submitted to a disciplinary panel.
Not sure what to do about spectators, but this things have to brought under control or there will be no refs for games, I see today that the Camogie association have problems too https://www.rte.ie/sport/camogie/2022/1006/1327517-dublin-camogie-warns-clubs-on-abuse-of-match-officials/

There's a few refs that wouldn't be that keen on their own Language being recorded.....

Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 07, 2022, 09:09:01 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on October 06, 2022, 05:33:22 PM
The simplest cure for abuse is to require refs and players to wear mics, which is perfectly technically possible. Any ffing the ref and you are off and the recording is submitted to a disciplinary panel.
Not sure what to do about spectators, but this things have to brought under control or there will be no refs for games, I see today that the Camogie association have problems too https://www.rte.ie/sport/camogie/2022/1006/1327517-dublin-camogie-warns-clubs-on-abuse-of-match-officials/

There's a few refs that wouldn't be that keen on their own Language being recorded.....

Are they saying to players 'I am considerably richer than you'.

Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 07, 2022, 09:09:01 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on October 06, 2022, 05:33:22 PM
The simplest cure for abuse is to require refs and players to wear mics, which is perfectly technically possible. Any ffing the ref and you are off and the recording is submitted to a disciplinary panel.
Not sure what to do about spectators, but this things have to brought under control or there will be no refs for games, I see today that the Camogie association have problems too https://www.rte.ie/sport/camogie/2022/1006/1327517-dublin-camogie-warns-clubs-on-abuse-of-match-officials/

There's a few refs that wouldn't be that keen on their own Language being recorded.....

A lot of ref's during championship use mics, they are mic'd up to the other officials on the pitch, I'm sure the software to record that wouldn't be that more expensive, having a camera could be useful to pick out the gobshites on the line also and behind the wire, it might embarrass a few people who feel that they are 'ok' guys..

I don't talk to players too much during the match unless they talk first, you explain your reason and that's all you can do, whether the player manager or supporters agree with that is for them to worry about. Having a camera crew follow you or being mic'd up won't, in that split second you make the call change the decision you make, rightly or wrongly

Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 07, 2022, 09:09:01 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on October 06, 2022, 05:33:22 PM
The simplest cure for abuse is to require refs and players to wear mics, which is perfectly technically possible. Any ffing the ref and you are off and the recording is submitted to a disciplinary panel.
Not sure what to do about spectators, but this things have to brought under control or there will be no refs for games, I see today that the Camogie association have problems too https://www.rte.ie/sport/camogie/2022/1006/1327517-dublin-camogie-warns-clubs-on-abuse-of-match-officials/

There's a few refs that wouldn't be that keen on their own Language being recorded.....

We live in Ireland and a certain style of language is used. But there is a difference between a FFS which is not directed at a person and direct abuse of a person. Even if the ref says to some player "what the F** were you thinking of" that is mere decorative language, and is not directed at a person.

Quote from: armaghniac on October 07, 2022, 10:42:24 AM

Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 07, 2022, 09:09:01 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on October 06, 2022, 05:33:22 PM
The simplest cure for abuse is to require refs and players to wear mics, which is perfectly technically possible. Any ffing the ref and you are off and the recording is submitted to a disciplinary panel.
Not sure what to do about spectators, but this things have to brought under control or there will be no refs for games, I see today that the Camogie association have problems too https://www.rte.ie/sport/camogie/2022/1006/1327517-dublin-camogie-warns-clubs-on-abuse-of-match-officials/

There's a few refs that wouldn't be that keen on their own Language being recorded.....

We live in Ireland and a certain style of language is used. But there is a difference between a FFS which is not directed at a person and direct abuse of a person. Even if the ref says to some player "what the F** were you thinking of" that is mere decorative language, and is not directed at a person.

Players know they have crossed the line, if it comes from the ref it will always be reactive to something that has been said to him. If it was stopped at source we wouldn't be having a problem. Deal with the decision and move on, being abusive about it will not, and I've yet to see it changed, make the ref change his mind.

Just because you feel hard done by does not mean you have a child's tantrum on the pitch

Quote from: dec on October 06, 2022, 03:21:14 PM

Quote from: lenny on October 06, 2022, 03:19:19 PM

Quote from: TirEoghainGael on October 06, 2022, 02:51:03 PM

Quote from: Handpass123 on October 06, 2022, 01:34:22 PM
Have been giving this a good amount of thought. What about a VAR type referee be brought into the game? Too many games these days have huge decisions made that are incorrect, shifting the momentum of the game. If a video referee was brought in, this wouldn't be the case and it also might take a bit of pressure off the actual referees. For example, Galway should of been awarded penalty in AI final then Kerry went other end and scored point. 4 point swing? Why are we allowing elite teams to influence referees to not give decisions for opposition #DaylightRobbery

What's next offside as well? The gaa will never introduce VAR. perhaps a second referee might help but again both referees will have different interpretations of the rules. Would need two whistles also...

Was offside not brought in in soccer to prevent blanket defences? That could be our solution right there. I can just imagine reserve league division 2 games being held up for a few minutes while a VAR panel in Dublin debates a tight call.

Off side was brought in in soccer to prevent a forward standing beside the opposition goal keeper and a team just hoofing the ball in to him every time.

which for yer was the basic job of a fullforward . still isin a lot of teams .
Really dont know how any onething following soccer rules would improve what they are whining about would improve things.
the slow languid play the constant sideways passing  is that not the problem people are trying to solve.
all that soccer ha contributed so far is tyrone 'Hair injuries ' and  Diving looking for frees and cards

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 07, 2022, 11:10:23 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on October 07, 2022, 10:42:24 AM

Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 07, 2022, 09:09:01 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on October 06, 2022, 05:33:22 PM
The simplest cure for abuse is to require refs and players to wear mics, which is perfectly technically possible. Any ffing the ref and you are off and the recording is submitted to a disciplinary panel.
Not sure what to do about spectators, but this things have to brought under control or there will be no refs for games, I see today that the Camogie association have problems too https://www.rte.ie/sport/camogie/2022/1006/1327517-dublin-camogie-warns-clubs-on-abuse-of-match-officials/

There's a few refs that wouldn't be that keen on their own Language being recorded.....

We live in Ireland and a certain style of language is used. But there is a difference between a FFS which is not directed at a person and direct abuse of a person. Even if the ref says to some player "what the F** were you thinking of" that is mere decorative language, and is not directed at a person.

Players know they have crossed the line, if it comes from the ref it will always be reactive to something that has been said to him. If it was stopped at source we wouldn't be having a problem. Deal with the decision and move on, being abusive about it will not, and I've yet to see it changed, make the ref change his mind.

Just because you feel hard done by does not mean you have a child's tantrum on the pitch

You'd love a mic FFS.

😀

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 07, 2022, 11:10:23 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on October 07, 2022, 10:42:24 AM

Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 07, 2022, 09:09:01 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on October 06, 2022, 05:33:22 PM
The simplest cure for abuse is to require refs and players to wear mics, which is perfectly technically possible. Any ffing the ref and you are off and the recording is submitted to a disciplinary panel.
Not sure what to do about spectators, but this things have to brought under control or there will be no refs for games, I see today that the Camogie association have problems too https://www.rte.ie/sport/camogie/2022/1006/1327517-dublin-camogie-warns-clubs-on-abuse-of-match-officials/

There's a few refs that wouldn't be that keen on their own Language being recorded.....

We live in Ireland and a certain style of language is used. But there is a difference between a FFS which is not directed at a person and direct abuse of a person. Even if the ref says to some player "what the F** were you thinking of" that is mere decorative language, and is not directed at a person.

Players know they have crossed the line, if it comes from the ref it will always be reactive to something that has been said to him. If it was stopped at source we wouldn't be having a problem. Deal with the decision and move on, being abusive about it will not, and I've yet to see it changed, make the ref change his mind.

Just because you feel hard done by does not mean you have a child's tantrum on the pitch

Thats very true. No matter how wrong a ref may be he's calling it as he see's it and like a player will make mistakes.

Look at me typing this with a calm head on me when I've roared plenty at refs in my time!

Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 07, 2022, 02:36:54 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 07, 2022, 11:10:23 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on October 07, 2022, 10:42:24 AM

Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 07, 2022, 09:09:01 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on October 06, 2022, 05:33:22 PM
The simplest cure for abuse is to require refs and players to wear mics, which is perfectly technically possible. Any ffing the ref and you are off and the recording is submitted to a disciplinary panel.
Not sure what to do about spectators, but this things have to brought under control or there will be no refs for games, I see today that the Camogie association have problems too https://www.rte.ie/sport/camogie/2022/1006/1327517-dublin-camogie-warns-clubs-on-abuse-of-match-officials/

There's a few refs that wouldn't be that keen on their own Language being recorded.....

We live in Ireland and a certain style of language is used. But there is a difference between a FFS which is not directed at a person and direct abuse of a person. Even if the ref says to some player "what the F** were you thinking of" that is mere decorative language, and is not directed at a person.

Players know they have crossed the line, if it comes from the ref it will always be reactive to something that has been said to him. If it was stopped at source we wouldn't be having a problem. Deal with the decision and move on, being abusive about it will not, and I've yet to see it changed, make the ref change his mind.

Just because you feel hard done by does not mean you have a child's tantrum on the pitch

You'd love a mic FFS.

😀

I'm very mild mannered 8)

But as Armagh18 said they all make mistakes or don't see it the way the player see's it. Ones were calling for ref's not being trained properly or not fit enough and so on, in the main they are all ex players and to do Championship they have to pass exams and fitness tests to get to a standard, what more should be done?

Counties up and down the country are losing ref's very quickly after they have passed the course, which btw is very good and lengthy with great detail and generally finishes up in Croke park with guest referees covering various different parts of what to expect and how to deal with it.

So if you are losing more ref's and ones natural retire who will fill the positions? How will the games be officiated?

I have the greatest respect for Lee Keegan.
One of the greatest to never win an AI.
And this is not a criticism of his article but my thoughts on it.
Lee opens his article by lamenting the state of Gaelic Football , the packed defence and the lateral play to counteract it.
He then closes his article by praising Mickey Hartes Louth and their packed defence and the lateral game that has raised these minnows of the game to be contenders.
And that is where we are. Managers have figured a way to bring the game to a level where any group of bonded players singing of the same sheet can compete with the elite counties of the sport.
The game is in transition and people's expectation will change.  This is the evolution of all things.
Even Aussie rules have changed. There is no longer space, even in those vast expanses, for the Gary Abletts   Jason Dunstalls etc to chalk up their 100 goals per year.
Scoring 100 goals a year is now a rarity as compared to 15 year ago.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/0321/1365522-no-easy-fix-to-games-ills-after-poor-league/

I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Football has become a game that is very difficult to attract a neutral, I struggle to watch games that ive no dog in the fight and anyone I talk to seems to be the same. Hurling still has the appeal that you can watch a game between 2 top teams and it keeps you interested, football not so much.

Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Some hurling managers are going the same way.

Here is Dessie Hutchinson's set of stats on Sunday v Kilkenny, one of the best forwards in the game, unbelievable IMO.

Possessions: 14
Shots:0
Hand passes: 8 (5 sideways)
Stick passes: 3 (1 sideways)
Dispossessed: 2
Frees won:1
Frees conceded:1

Possession location:
Inside 45:0
45-65:4
65-65:6
Defensive half:4

The KK defenders probably couldn't believe their luck!

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 10:08:26 AM

Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Football has become a game that is very difficult to attract a neutral, I struggle to watch games that ive no dog in the fight and anyone I talk to seems to be the same. Hurling still has the appeal that you can watch a game between 2 top teams and it keeps you interested, football not so much.

I would agree with your assessment about the football. I look forward to sitting down to watching a match then about 10 minutes in I realise I'm bored stiff watching the same regurgitated possession based hand passing shite. I think its just habit, tradition and tribalism that makes you keep on coming back to watch it but it's really getting to the stage where I can take or leave it unless my own county is involved. If sport is supposed to be entertainment then this stuff is as far from entertainment as you can get, its all too mechanical and it's treated like an occupation by nearly all coaching teams. Data analysis and over coaching has ruined the game. The coaching fraternity will of course tell you everything is fantastic and why wouldn't they, most of them are earning a crust from it. It should be the number one priority for the GAA to try to resolve.     

Even hurling has become fairly tedious though. The same few teams playing each other over and over again and it has got very much possession based as well with a lot fewer goals in matches it would seem.

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 10:08:26 AM

Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Football has become a game that is very difficult to attract a neutral, I struggle to watch games that ive no dog in the fight and anyone I talk to seems to be the same. Hurling still has the appeal that you can watch a game between 2 top teams and it keeps you interested, football not so much.

I don't necessarily agree.
In hurling, unless you are watching some of the top teams, the games can be a really hard watch.
In soccer, the whole approach is to pass the ball around the back and mf to find a gap to attack. No-one seems to complain about those games being boring, rather the skill levels of the players are revered.

Looking back to football of the 90's and to a lesser extent the 00's, football was more dynamic and more attack centred and yes, it can be argued more exciting and a more attractive prospect for the neutral. But the skill levels of players I believe are no-where near the levels of today and the fitness levels now are at stratospheric levels in comparison.

In football today, the top teams are still exciting to watch. The skill levels and fitness levels allow for those moments of brilliance which are enabled by the defensive foundation and approach. I personally find that fascinating to watch.
We still get some real score fests, but generally they are between teams that don't have the same level of players/management/tactics and most importantly finance and so the defensive abilities are not as good as the top 3-4 teams.

Only my opinion and I'm sure others will completely disagree. For me it's the progression of the game in terms of tactics and skills.
20 years ago we would not have enivisaged the way the game is today and I'd imagine in 20 years time it will have evolved again into something unrecognisable to todays players/fans.
It doesn't make it worse, just different and one thing for sure is that if nothing changed, it would become stale and boring and we'd have Kerry/Dublin winning every year and the rest of us would be sitting back dreaming of better days.

Stop talking sense tbrick

Quote from: tbrick18 on March 23, 2023, 11:15:26 AM

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 10:08:26 AM

Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Football has become a game that is very difficult to attract a neutral, I struggle to watch games that ive no dog in the fight and anyone I talk to seems to be the same. Hurling still has the appeal that you can watch a game between 2 top teams and it keeps you interested, football not so much.

I don't necessarily agree.
In hurling, unless you are watching some of the top teams, the games can be a really hard watch.
In soccer, the whole approach is to pass the ball around the back and mf to find a gap to attack. No-one seems to complain about those games being boring, rather the skill levels of the players are revered.

Looking back to football of the 90's and to a lesser extent the 00's, football was more dynamic and more attack centred and yes, it can be argued more exciting and a more attractive prospect for the neutral. But the skill levels of players I believe are no-where near the levels of today and the fitness levels now are at stratospheric levels in comparison.

In football today, the top teams are still exciting to watch. The skill levels and fitness levels allow for those moments of brilliance which are enabled by the defensive foundation and approach. I personally find that fascinating to watch.
We still get some real score fests, but generally they are between teams that don't have the same level of players/management/tactics and most importantly finance and so the defensive abilities are not as good as the top 3-4 teams.

Only my opinion and I'm sure others will completely disagree. For me it's the progression of the game in terms of tactics and skills.
20 years ago we would not have enivisaged the way the game is today and I'd imagine in 20 years time it will have evolved again into something unrecognisable to todays players/fans.
It doesn't make it worse, just different and one thing for sure is that if nothing changed, it would become stale and boring and we'd have Kerry/Dublin winning every year and the rest of us would be sitting back dreaming of better days.

I wouldn't agree with you about the skill levels i don't think they have got better there are individuals who have a serious skill set but we had them back then also.

Fitness and Conditioning is off the charts now compared to back then alright.

Quote from: tbrick18 on March 23, 2023, 11:15:26 AM

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 10:08:26 AM

Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Football has become a game that is very difficult to attract a neutral, I struggle to watch games that ive no dog in the fight and anyone I talk to seems to be the same. Hurling still has the appeal that you can watch a game between 2 top teams and it keeps you interested, football not so much.

I don't necessarily agree.
In hurling, unless you are watching some of the top teams, the games can be a really hard watch.
In soccer, the whole approach is to pass the ball around the back and mf to find a gap to attack. No-one seems to complain about those games being boring, rather the skill levels of the players are revered.

Looking back to football of the 90's and to a lesser extent the 00's, football was more dynamic and more attack centred and yes, it can be argued more exciting and a more attractive prospect for the neutral. But the skill levels of players I believe are no-where near the levels of today and the fitness levels now are at stratospheric levels in comparison.

In football today, the top teams are still exciting to watch. The skill levels and fitness levels allow for those moments of brilliance which are enabled by the defensive foundation and approach. I personally find that fascinating to watch.
We still get some real score fests, but generally they are between teams that don't have the same level of players/management/tactics and most importantly finance and so the defensive abilities are not as good as the top 3-4 teams.

Only my opinion and I'm sure others will completely disagree. For me it's the progression of the game in terms of tactics and skills.
20 years ago we would not have enivisaged the way the game is today and I'd imagine in 20 years time it will have evolved again into something unrecognisable to todays players/fans.
It doesn't make it worse, just different and one thing for sure is that if nothing changed, it would become stale and boring and we'd have Kerry/Dublin winning every year and the rest of us would be sitting back dreaming of better days.

I'm not sure how the evolution of the game would change that particular outcome as it is fairly clear that the best resourced counties are those who advantage the most. Kerry and Dublin have literally won every League and championship title in the last decade apart from one Mayo League and one Tyrone championship!

You also make the point that skill and fitness levels have never been higher and that's possibly true which is down to the level of coaching invested in players from they are 5/6 years of age. But then again it depends on how you define skill and what you want the game to look like. I'd prefer to watch more of a kicking game where players are able to get their heads up and execute a long pass into an inside forward. Also to watch players that are able to kick scores from 40 metres out and forwards that are able to take their men on one on one and bear down on goal. More one on one duels for possession and less zonal marking to cover space. However all of those skills have become less important at the expense of possession and risk free football. GPS and possession based stats are the name of the game now. I'm sure there are coaching types who enjoy those type of hand passing possession based matches where they are able to have more control of the players movements and tactical positioning but imo it does nothing for the spectacle. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.     

If people don't like it then don't watch it. Really sick of this complaining about the state of the game. There are a few tweaks which could make it a bit better but that's about it.

People won't be happy until its just 15 attackers vs 15 attackers scoring 19-100 a game. Defending is a skill and a joy to watch if done right which people forget about.

When most GAA people stop watching what then?

Ban the fkn handpass would be a start.

Quote from: tyrone08 on March 23, 2023, 12:54:24 PM
If people don't like it then don't watch it. Really sick of this complaining about the state of the game. There are a few tweaks which could make it a bit better but that's about it.

People won't be happy until its just 15 attackers vs 15 attackers scoring 19-100 a game. Defending is a skill and a joy to watch if done right which people forget about.

Thats clearly what people are saying, they aren't watching it unless their own county/ club is involved.

the bit ive highlighted ive agreed with, but the modern game has actually stopped the skill of defending. its now strength in numbers, used to love seeing a corner back strip a ball when a forward tries to take him on 1 on 1. or a Conor Gormley block in 03. Even on defending the forward mark stopped defenders even getting a good chance to dispossess balls from forwards, a forward catches a clean ball and the defender cant even touch him. madness.

Defenders dont actually need to be able to tackle anymore, just kill space and be disciplined in your positional play can carry you through

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 10:08:26 AM

Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Football has become a game that is very difficult to attract a neutral, I struggle to watch games that ive no dog in the fight and anyone I talk to seems to be the same. Hurling still has the appeal that you can watch a game between 2 top teams and it keeps you interested, football not so much.

I'm getting the same way too. You watch a game, and head down to throw the laundry in the dryer, and three or four minutes later you come back and maybe, just maybe, there's been a point scored. Leaving aside our current predicament, I'm even close to giving up on watching Donegal, such is the lack of enjoyment to be had from watching them. I said it in the thread for last year's Ulster Final, a game in which we were very competitive and could have won, that it would have been a hollow victory, so grim was the fare that was served up (think I said the same in the '16 final when Tyrone nicked it right at the end). We had some promising, fast moving football under Bonner in 18 and 19, but its been utterly dreadful since then and unfortunately the vast majority of the other teams are the same. Even watching Dublin go about their methodical, systematic, possession-based takedown of the opposition towards the end of the six in a row period was as dull as watching paint dry.

Apart from David Clifford and Shane Walsh and the runners of Mayo and your county loyalty, there just isn't much to attract spectators in gaelic football these days.

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 01:11:10 PM

Quote from: tyrone08 on March 23, 2023, 12:54:24 PM
If people don't like it then don't watch it. Really sick of this complaining about the state of the game. There are a few tweaks which could make it a bit better but that's about it.

People won't be happy until its just 15 attackers vs 15 attackers scoring 19-100 a game. Defending is a skill and a joy to watch if done right which people forget about.

Thats clearly what people are saying, they aren't watching it unless their own county/ club is involved.

the bit ive highlighted ive agreed with, but the modern game has actually stopped the skill of defending. its now strength in numbers, used to love seeing a corner back strip a ball when a forward tries to take him on 1 on 1. or a Conor Gormley block in 03. Even on defending the forward mark stopped defenders even getting a good chance to dispossess balls from forwards, a forward catches a clean ball and the defender cant even touch him. madness.

Defenders dont actually need to be able to tackle anymore, just kill space and be disciplined in your positional play can carry you through

Would agree with all of that, the art of defending is diminishing due packed defenses, and also great point on the forward mark, if it is abolished, we will actually see better forward play and defensive play. 

I mentioned it before in a thread, but the main issue with football is the mentality shift from "we score more than them and we win" to "we concede less than them, we win". 

Side note - without packed defenses, Clifford would be putting a lot of good men into early retirement.....

Quote from: tyrone08 on March 23, 2023, 12:54:24 PM
If people don't like it then don't watch it. Really sick of this complaining about the state of the game. There are a few tweaks which could make it a bit better but that's about it.

People won't be happy until its just 15 attackers vs 15 attackers scoring 19-100 a game. Defending is a skill and a joy to watch if done right which people forget about.

Absolutely.  No one is compelled to watch any game.
20 years ago RTE showed a few of the finals. Many of those were still ordinary fare .
The GAA is a victim of its own popularity, combined with negative and divisive, commentators and presenters.
The GAA needs to remind RTE that they are commissioned with promotion of the game, not the opposite.

Have a look at the final scores of today and the final scores of the 80s or 99s. They are much of a muchness.
And if statistics are available I would hazard a guess that the number of possessions has more than tripled.

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 01:11:10 PM

Quote from: tyrone08 on March 23, 2023, 12:54:24 PM
If people don't like it then don't watch it. Really sick of this complaining about the state of the game. There are a few tweaks which could make it a bit better but that's about it.

People won't be happy until its just 15 attackers vs 15 attackers scoring 19-100 a game. Defending is a skill and a joy to watch if done right which people forget about.

Thats clearly what people are saying, they aren't watching it unless their own county/ club is involved.

the bit ive highlighted ive agreed with, but the modern game has actually stopped the skill of defending. its now strength in numbers, used to love seeing a corner back strip a ball when a forward tries to take him on 1 on 1. or a Conor Gormley block in 03. Even on defending the forward mark stopped defenders even getting a good chance to dispossess balls from forwards, a forward catches a clean ball and the defender cant even touch him. madness.

Defenders dont actually need to be able to tackle anymore, just kill space and be disciplined in your positional play can carry you through

There's also the fact that defenders go out and commit multiple fouls week-in week-out in every game they play because the level of punishment is so weak that any defender who doesn't go out and foul the opposition is putting his team at a disadvantage.

If football had proper punishment for committing foul play, it would improve the game greatly.

That's the bit that doesn't stack up. You've people saying football was much more enjoyable in the 90's with no crowded defences and skillfull players who could score from anywhere. Yet you wonder what they were doing because there is as many scores now in games as ever.

Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2023, 01:13:25 PM

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 10:08:26 AM

Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Football has become a game that is very difficult to attract a neutral, I struggle to watch games that ive no dog in the fight and anyone I talk to seems to be the same. Hurling still has the appeal that you can watch a game between 2 top teams and it keeps you interested, football not so much.

I'm getting the same way too. You watch a game, and head down to throw the laundry in the dryer, and three or four minutes later you come back and maybe, just maybe, there's been a point scored. Leaving aside our current predicament, I'm even close to giving up on watching Donegal, such is the lack of enjoyment to be had from watching them. I said it in the thread for last year's Ulster Final, a game in which we were very competitive and could have won, that it would have been a hollow victory, so grim was the fare that was served up (think I said the same in the '16 final when Tyrone nicked it right at the end). We had some promising, fast moving football under Bonner in 18 and 19, but its been utterly dreadful since then and unfortunately the vast majority of the other teams are the same. Even watching Dublin go about their methodical, systematic, possession-based takedown of the opposition towards the end of the six in a row period was as dull as watching paint dry.

Apart from David Clifford and Shane Walsh and the runners of Mayo and your county loyalty, there just isn't much to attract spectators in gaelic football these days.

You'd wonder how that's different to games 20 years ago when scorelines are broadly the same?

Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 23, 2023, 01:36:15 PM
That's the bit that doesn't stack up. You've people saying football was much more enjoyable in the 90's with no crowded defences and skillfull players who could score from anywhere. Yet you wonder what they were doing because there is as many scores now in games as ever.

I think this is just a by-product of people mythologising the past - over time people remember the exciting games and forget the dull boring ones.

I definitely don't think that there were players who could score from anywhere.

Nowadays players are much better at shooting from what I can see.

Back then you had the full forward line doing the vast vast majority of the shooting and they were pretty much always marked by one defender.

Anyone who thinks standards were higher in the past has watched any game from back then recently.

Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 23, 2023, 01:40:24 PM

Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2023, 01:13:25 PM

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 10:08:26 AM

Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Football has become a game that is very difficult to attract a neutral, I struggle to watch games that ive no dog in the fight and anyone I talk to seems to be the same. Hurling still has the appeal that you can watch a game between 2 top teams and it keeps you interested, football not so much.

I'm getting the same way too. You watch a game, and head down to throw the laundry in the dryer, and three or four minutes later you come back and maybe, just maybe, there's been a point scored. Leaving aside our current predicament, I'm even close to giving up on watching Donegal, such is the lack of enjoyment to be had from watching them. I said it in the thread for last year's Ulster Final, a game in which we were very competitive and could have won, that it would have been a hollow victory, so grim was the fare that was served up (think I said the same in the '16 final when Tyrone nicked it right at the end). We had some promising, fast moving football under Bonner in 18 and 19, but its been utterly dreadful since then and unfortunately the vast majority of the other teams are the same. Even watching Dublin go about their methodical, systematic, possession-based takedown of the opposition towards the end of the six in a row period was as dull as watching paint dry.

Apart from David Clifford and Shane Walsh and the runners of Mayo and your county loyalty, there just isn't much to attract spectators in gaelic football these days.

You'd wonder how that's different to games 20 years ago when scorelines are broadly the same?

Plenty of reasons, more frees now a days, a lot more scores come from dead balls now than did in the early 00s for example, id love to see the free counts from games in the 00s compared to now, forwards are told to go down like they've been shot if touched inside the 45 as its a free hit for a score, again down to the stats. Less wides, teams are now instructed not to shoot outside 'scoring zone' and 'give it to the shooters' you end up with similar scores but far less entertainment, teams holding the ball rather than shooting a wide and giving up possession.

its a different game now, the days of players/ teams being man for man is pretty much gone unfortunately, I often look and think how would a Peter canavan or a Mulligan get by today?

The game is now dictated by analysis and GPS. players are given stats a after a game and there are teams that if the players stats aren't good he's dropped, no wonder players are robotic.

Quote from: tyrone08 on March 23, 2023, 12:54:24 PM
If people don't like it then don't watch it. Really sick of this complaining about the state of the game. There are a few tweaks which could make it a bit better but that's about it.

People won't be happy until its just 15 attackers vs 15 attackers scoring 19-100 a game. Defending is a skill and a joy to watch if done right which people forget about.

Spot on! If people want a game largely devoid of tactics or defending, go watch hurling. Some of the football in League is a hard watch to be fair but some of the moaning about it is ridiculous. The game has improved immeasurably from the slow, rooting game it was 30 years ago.

Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 23, 2023, 01:40:24 PM

Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2023, 01:13:25 PM

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 10:08:26 AM

Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Football has become a game that is very difficult to attract a neutral, I struggle to watch games that ive no dog in the fight and anyone I talk to seems to be the same. Hurling still has the appeal that you can watch a game between 2 top teams and it keeps you interested, football not so much.

I'm getting the same way too. You watch a game, and head down to throw the laundry in the dryer, and three or four minutes later you come back and maybe, just maybe, there's been a point scored. Leaving aside our current predicament, I'm even close to giving up on watching Donegal, such is the lack of enjoyment to be had from watching them. I said it in the thread for last year's Ulster Final, a game in which we were very competitive and could have won, that it would have been a hollow victory, so grim was the fare that was served up (think I said the same in the '16 final when Tyrone nicked it right at the end). We had some promising, fast moving football under Bonner in 18 and 19, but its been utterly dreadful since then and unfortunately the vast majority of the other teams are the same. Even watching Dublin go about their methodical, systematic, possession-based takedown of the opposition towards the end of the six in a row period was as dull as watching paint dry.

Apart from David Clifford and Shane Walsh and the runners of Mayo and your county loyalty, there just isn't much to attract spectators in gaelic football these days.

You'd wonder how that's different to games 20 years ago when scorelines are broadly the same?

20 years ago, those three or four minutes might have had a couple of one on one duels at either end of the field where defenders came out on top or a team hit a wide. These days it's more likely that one of the teams spent two of those minutes arsing about hand-passing across the field 60m from the goal.

Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2023, 02:00:46 PM

Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 23, 2023, 01:40:24 PM

Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2023, 01:13:25 PM

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 10:08:26 AM

Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Football has become a game that is very difficult to attract a neutral, I struggle to watch games that ive no dog in the fight and anyone I talk to seems to be the same. Hurling still has the appeal that you can watch a game between 2 top teams and it keeps you interested, football not so much.

I'm getting the same way too. You watch a game, and head down to throw the laundry in the dryer, and three or four minutes later you come back and maybe, just maybe, there's been a point scored. Leaving aside our current predicament, I'm even close to giving up on watching Donegal, such is the lack of enjoyment to be had from watching them. I said it in the thread for last year's Ulster Final, a game in which we were very competitive and could have won, that it would have been a hollow victory, so grim was the fare that was served up (think I said the same in the '16 final when Tyrone nicked it right at the end). We had some promising, fast moving football under Bonner in 18 and 19, but its been utterly dreadful since then and unfortunately the vast majority of the other teams are the same. Even watching Dublin go about their methodical, systematic, possession-based takedown of the opposition towards the end of the six in a row period was as dull as watching paint dry.

Apart from David Clifford and Shane Walsh and the runners of Mayo and your county loyalty, there just isn't much to attract spectators in gaelic football these days.

You'd wonder how that's different to games 20 years ago when scorelines are broadly the same?

20 years ago, those three or four minutes might have had a couple of one on one duels at either end of the field where defenders came out on top or a team hit a wide. These days it's more likely that one of the teams spent two of those minutes arsing about hand-passing across the field 60m from the goal.

There was still one point scored in the 3/4 minutes you missed though.

The game has got less exciting but still plenty of goods bit's to games too. The all round skill level of players across the team is far higher than that of 20/30 years. The game had moved on from the Jim McGuiness era in recent seasons with much more pressing of kickouts etc. But there has been a worrying trend of increased negativity in this years league - hoping the trend doesn't continue into the championship.

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 01:11:10 PM

Quote from: tyrone08 on March 23, 2023, 12:54:24 PM
If people don't like it then don't watch it. Really sick of this complaining about the state of the game. There are a few tweaks which could make it a bit better but that's about it.

People won't be happy until its just 15 attackers vs 15 attackers scoring 19-100 a game. Defending is a skill and a joy to watch if done right which people forget about.

Thats clearly what people are saying, they aren't watching it unless their own county/ club is involved.

the bit ive highlighted ive agreed with, but the modern game has actually stopped the skill of defending. its now strength in numbers, used to love seeing a corner back strip a ball when a forward tries to take him on 1 on 1. or a Conor Gormley block in 03. Even on defending the forward mark stopped defenders even getting a good chance to dispossess balls from forwards, a forward catches a clean ball and the defender cant even touch him. madness.

Defenders dont actually need to be able to tackle anymore, just kill space and be disciplined in your positional play can carry you through

I fully agree on the forward mark. I don't think it brings anything to the game.
However, I disagree on the defending skills. Covering space is a defensive skill in itself. Over the years I've often heard it said about a footballer always getting into the right place at the right time. That's something that requires skill.
There are also plenty of man markers out there. I'm going to use Derry as the example, Chrissy McKaigue and Eoin McEvoy are exceptional man markers but can also get forward.
The art of tackling can be measured in some part by the amount of fouls committed by a team and in my head (perhaps wrongly), the lower the foul count the higher the level of accurate skilled tackling.

It's all subjective though and I fully get why it annoys some people.
But the game cannot be described as crap due to the opinions of some, because to others the game is exceptional.

Quote from: twohands!!! on March 23, 2023, 01:44:54 PM

Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 23, 2023, 01:36:15 PM
That's the bit that doesn't stack up. You've people saying football was much more enjoyable in the 90's with no crowded defences and skillfull players who could score from anywhere. Yet you wonder what they were doing because there is as many scores now in games as ever.

Nowadays players are much better at shooting from what I can see.

That's because they are only taking on shots at the end off a move of about 20 fists passes when they are in a position that their manager allows them to shoot.

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 01:52:09 PM

Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 23, 2023, 01:40:24 PM

Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2023, 01:13:25 PM

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 10:08:26 AM

Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Football has become a game that is very difficult to attract a neutral, I struggle to watch games that ive no dog in the fight and anyone I talk to seems to be the same. Hurling still has the appeal that you can watch a game between 2 top teams and it keeps you interested, football not so much.

I'm getting the same way too. You watch a game, and head down to throw the laundry in the dryer, and three or four minutes later you come back and maybe, just maybe, there's been a point scored. Leaving aside our current predicament, I'm even close to giving up on watching Donegal, such is the lack of enjoyment to be had from watching them. I said it in the thread for last year's Ulster Final, a game in which we were very competitive and could have won, that it would have been a hollow victory, so grim was the fare that was served up (think I said the same in the '16 final when Tyrone nicked it right at the end). We had some promising, fast moving football under Bonner in 18 and 19, but its been utterly dreadful since then and unfortunately the vast majority of the other teams are the same. Even watching Dublin go about their methodical, systematic, possession-based takedown of the opposition towards the end of the six in a row period was as dull as watching paint dry.

Apart from David Clifford and Shane Walsh and the runners of Mayo and your county loyalty, there just isn't much to attract spectators in gaelic football these days.

You'd wonder how that's different to games 20 years ago when scorelines are broadly the same?

Plenty of reasons, more frees now a days, a lot more scores come from dead balls now than did in the early 00s for example, id love to see the free counts from games in the 00s compared to now, forwards are told to go down like they've been shot if touched inside the 45 as its a free hit for a score, again down to the stats. Less wides, teams are now instructed not to shoot outside 'scoring zone' and 'give it to the shooters' you end up with similar scores but far less entertainment, teams holding the ball rather than shooting a wide and giving up possession.

its a different game now, the days of players/ teams being man for man is pretty much gone unfortunately, I often look and think how would a Peter canavan or a Mulligan get by today?

The game is now dictated by analysis and GPS. players are given stats a after a game and there are teams that if the players stats aren't good he's dropped, no wonder players are robotic.

The more frees now is definitely an issue. In the 80's you'd have to take a limb off half the time to get a free. Too much diving and conning of the ref. The rules have all been tinkered to suit the forward in the hope this will make creative football. The adverse effect of that is that teams know one on one, 9 times out of 10, the forward will either get past the defender or win a free. Therefore the next logical step is to prevent 1 on 1's. Make it easier to defend, enforce the steps more, allow that bit more contact in the tackle and you'd see defenders might be more confident 1 on 1. Until then, logic will always make the least risky option the most favourable. And that means packed defences and breaking at speed to get a score or free in a good position.

Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 23, 2023, 02:13:06 PM

Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2023, 02:00:46 PM

Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 23, 2023, 01:40:24 PM

Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2023, 01:13:25 PM

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 10:08:26 AM

Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Football has become a game that is very difficult to attract a neutral, I struggle to watch games that ive no dog in the fight and anyone I talk to seems to be the same. Hurling still has the appeal that you can watch a game between 2 top teams and it keeps you interested, football not so much.

I'm getting the same way too. You watch a game, and head down to throw the laundry in the dryer, and three or four minutes later you come back and maybe, just maybe, there's been a point scored. Leaving aside our current predicament, I'm even close to giving up on watching Donegal, such is the lack of enjoyment to be had from watching them. I said it in the thread for last year's Ulster Final, a game in which we were very competitive and could have won, that it would have been a hollow victory, so grim was the fare that was served up (think I said the same in the '16 final when Tyrone nicked it right at the end). We had some promising, fast moving football under Bonner in 18 and 19, but its been utterly dreadful since then and unfortunately the vast majority of the other teams are the same. Even watching Dublin go about their methodical, systematic, possession-based takedown of the opposition towards the end of the six in a row period was as dull as watching paint dry.

Apart from David Clifford and Shane Walsh and the runners of Mayo and your county loyalty, there just isn't much to attract spectators in gaelic football these days.

You'd wonder how that's different to games 20 years ago when scorelines are broadly the same?

20 years ago, those three or four minutes might have had a couple of one on one duels at either end of the field where defenders came out on top or a team hit a wide. These days it's more likely that one of the teams spent two of those minutes arsing about hand-passing across the field 60m from the goal.

There was still one point scored in the 3/4 minutes you missed though.

The game has got less exciting but still plenty of goods bit's to games too. The all round skill level of players across the team is far higher than that of 20/30 years. The game had moved on from the Jim McGuiness era in recent seasons with much more pressing of kickouts etc. But there has been a worrying trend of increased negativity in this years league - hoping the trend doesn't continue into the championship.

But it's not about the scoring alone.

And I don't know if the skill level is higher.

It's not like teams are fielding with six Peter Canavans up front or two Daragh O'Ses in midfield these days.

Fitness, athleticism, team coordination, rehearsed plays and tactical discipline are certainly on a whole other plane, but the overall game is for the most part dull and risk averse and individual flare and skill and creativity expressed far less than they used to be.

As someone said earlier, how would Canavan and Mulligan fare today? Trevor Giles or Greg Blaney?

What would Michael Murphy have done had he arrived 10 years earlier?

Just my opinion.

Kicking and catching will become more prominent. The Dubs are struggling to adapt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWJbVOsMxmY&t=1215s

Antrim in the 40's and 50's revolutionized the hand pass and made it their signature play, a sweeping movement right down the field, demoralising many sides. But the hand pass was abolished in 1950 at congress. And guess who proposed the motion? Yes, Antrim.

When was it brought back in?

The game keeps changing. When I was a cub in the 70s all the oul boys complained that the game had changed into Basketball, now that I'm an oul boy I'm complaining that the game has turned into soccer.

Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2023, 02:57:10 PM

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 01:52:09 PM

Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 23, 2023, 01:40:24 PM

Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2023, 01:13:25 PM

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 10:08:26 AM

Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Football has become a game that is very difficult to attract a neutral, I struggle to watch games that ive no dog in the fight and anyone I talk to seems to be the same. Hurling still has the appeal that you can watch a game between 2 top teams and it keeps you interested, football not so much.

I'm getting the same way too. You watch a game, and head down to throw the laundry in the dryer, and three or four minutes later you come back and maybe, just maybe, there's been a point scored. Leaving aside our current predicament, I'm even close to giving up on watching Donegal, such is the lack of enjoyment to be had from watching them. I said it in the thread for last year's Ulster Final, a game in which we were very competitive and could have won, that it would have been a hollow victory, so grim was the fare that was served up (think I said the same in the '16 final when Tyrone nicked it right at the end). We had some promising, fast moving football under Bonner in 18 and 19, but its been utterly dreadful since then and unfortunately the vast majority of the other teams are the same. Even watching Dublin go about their methodical, systematic, possession-based takedown of the opposition towards the end of the six in a row period was as dull as watching paint dry.

Apart from David Clifford and Shane Walsh and the runners of Mayo and your county loyalty, there just isn't much to attract spectators in gaelic football these days.

You'd wonder how that's different to games 20 years ago when scorelines are broadly the same?

Plenty of reasons, more frees now a days, a lot more scores come from dead balls now than did in the early 00s for example, id love to see the free counts from games in the 00s compared to now, forwards are told to go down like they've been shot if touched inside the 45 as its a free hit for a score, again down to the stats. Less wides, teams are now instructed not to shoot outside 'scoring zone' and 'give it to the shooters' you end up with similar scores but far less entertainment, teams holding the ball rather than shooting a wide and giving up possession.

its a different game now, the days of players/ teams being man for man is pretty much gone unfortunately, I often look and think how would a Peter canavan or a Mulligan get by today?

The game is now dictated by analysis and GPS. players are given stats a after a game and there are teams that if the players stats aren't good he's dropped, no wonder players are robotic.

The more frees now is definitely an issue. In the 80's you'd have to take a limb off half the time to get a free. Too much diving and conning of the ref. The rules have all been tinkered to suit the forward in the hope this will make creative football. The adverse effect of that is that teams know one on one, 9 times out of 10, the forward will either get past the defender or win a free. Therefore the next logical step is to prevent 1 on 1's. Make it easier to defend, enforce the steps more, allow that bit more contact in the tackle and you'd see defenders might be more confident 1 on 1. Until then, logic will always make the least risky option the most favourable. And that means packed defences and breaking at speed to get a score or free in a good position.

The problem is that teams have worked out that it makes sense to foul a lot of the time.

While there is some diving and conning of the ref, it is only a tiny percentage of the time- well over 95% of the time a free is awarded it is because of foul playe by the defender

I think a large part of the problem is that the punishment for conceding a foul isn't harsh enough.

If there was adequate punishment for committing foul play/cheating the amount of frees conceded would drop instantly.

The most important foul in Gaelic football is the one where the opposing team is coming out of their defence with the ball, especially after they have executed a turn over, and you commit a foul to break their momentum and to buy your team a couple of seconds to get back in their defensive shape. Kerry probably the best team in the country at executing this foul. As it is usually a simple tug of the jersey or leaving the arm in challenge it will rarely or ever punished with a yellow card. It really does suck the energy out of a game and stops a game building up any real  flow or momentum.   

Quote from: twohands!!! on March 23, 2023, 03:50:51 PM

Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2023, 02:57:10 PM

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 01:52:09 PM

Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 23, 2023, 01:40:24 PM

Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2023, 01:13:25 PM

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 10:08:26 AM

Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Football has become a game that is very difficult to attract a neutral, I struggle to watch games that ive no dog in the fight and anyone I talk to seems to be the same. Hurling still has the appeal that you can watch a game between 2 top teams and it keeps you interested, football not so much.

I'm getting the same way too. You watch a game, and head down to throw the laundry in the dryer, and three or four minutes later you come back and maybe, just maybe, there's been a point scored. Leaving aside our current predicament, I'm even close to giving up on watching Donegal, such is the lack of enjoyment to be had from watching them. I said it in the thread for last year's Ulster Final, a game in which we were very competitive and could have won, that it would have been a hollow victory, so grim was the fare that was served up (think I said the same in the '16 final when Tyrone nicked it right at the end). We had some promising, fast moving football under Bonner in 18 and 19, but its been utterly dreadful since then and unfortunately the vast majority of the other teams are the same. Even watching Dublin go about their methodical, systematic, possession-based takedown of the opposition towards the end of the six in a row period was as dull as watching paint dry.

Apart from David Clifford and Shane Walsh and the runners of Mayo and your county loyalty, there just isn't much to attract spectators in gaelic football these days.

You'd wonder how that's different to games 20 years ago when scorelines are broadly the same?

Plenty of reasons, more frees now a days, a lot more scores come from dead balls now than did in the early 00s for example, id love to see the free counts from games in the 00s compared to now, forwards are told to go down like they've been shot if touched inside the 45 as its a free hit for a score, again down to the stats. Less wides, teams are now instructed not to shoot outside 'scoring zone' and 'give it to the shooters' you end up with similar scores but far less entertainment, teams holding the ball rather than shooting a wide and giving up possession.

its a different game now, the days of players/ teams being man for man is pretty much gone unfortunately, I often look and think how would a Peter canavan or a Mulligan get by today?

The game is now dictated by analysis and GPS. players are given stats a after a game and there are teams that if the players stats aren't good he's dropped, no wonder players are robotic.

The more frees now is definitely an issue. In the 80's you'd have to take a limb off half the time to get a free. Too much diving and conning of the ref. The rules have all been tinkered to suit the forward in the hope this will make creative football. The adverse effect of that is that teams know one on one, 9 times out of 10, the forward will either get past the defender or win a free. Therefore the next logical step is to prevent 1 on 1's. Make it easier to defend, enforce the steps more, allow that bit more contact in the tackle and you'd see defenders might be more confident 1 on 1. Until then, logic will always make the least risky option the most favourable. And that means packed defences and breaking at speed to get a score or free in a good position.

The problem is that teams have worked out that it makes sense to foul a lot of the time.

While there is some diving and conning of the ref, it is only a tiny percentage of the time- well over 95% of the time a free is awarded it is because of foul playe by the defender

I think a large part of the problem is that the punishment for conceding a foul isn't harsh enough.

If there was adequate punishment for committing foul play/cheating the amount of frees conceded would drop instantly.

It's hard to claim one way or another I suppose. But in my view, there's fouls now considered for minimal contact, which according to the text book could be identified as a foul. But should they be? I think given the nature of the game, we should tolerate a higher level of contact. But given the tackle is so loosely defined it's hard to say how that would be done. I think refs tend to err more on the side of caution now for fear of being overanalysed. How often hear in club games how a ref gets praised for letting the game flow. You see that less and less at county level imo.

Dammed if you do dammed if you don't !!

Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2023, 05:28:17 PM

Quote from: twohands!!! on March 23, 2023, 03:50:51 PM

Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2023, 02:57:10 PM

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 01:52:09 PM

Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 23, 2023, 01:40:24 PM

Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2023, 01:13:25 PM

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 10:08:26 AM

Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Football has become a game that is very difficult to attract a neutral, I struggle to watch games that ive no dog in the fight and anyone I talk to seems to be the same. Hurling still has the appeal that you can watch a game between 2 top teams and it keeps you interested, football not so much.

I'm getting the same way too. You watch a game, and head down to throw the laundry in the dryer, and three or four minutes later you come back and maybe, just maybe, there's been a point scored. Leaving aside our current predicament, I'm even close to giving up on watching Donegal, such is the lack of enjoyment to be had from watching them. I said it in the thread for last year's Ulster Final, a game in which we were very competitive and could have won, that it would have been a hollow victory, so grim was the fare that was served up (think I said the same in the '16 final when Tyrone nicked it right at the end). We had some promising, fast moving football under Bonner in 18 and 19, but its been utterly dreadful since then and unfortunately the vast majority of the other teams are the same. Even watching Dublin go about their methodical, systematic, possession-based takedown of the opposition towards the end of the six in a row period was as dull as watching paint dry.

Apart from David Clifford and Shane Walsh and the runners of Mayo and your county loyalty, there just isn't much to attract spectators in gaelic football these days.

You'd wonder how that's different to games 20 years ago when scorelines are broadly the same?

Plenty of reasons, more frees now a days, a lot more scores come from dead balls now than did in the early 00s for example, id love to see the free counts from games in the 00s compared to now, forwards are told to go down like they've been shot if touched inside the 45 as its a free hit for a score, again down to the stats. Less wides, teams are now instructed not to shoot outside 'scoring zone' and 'give it to the shooters' you end up with similar scores but far less entertainment, teams holding the ball rather than shooting a wide and giving up possession.

its a different game now, the days of players/ teams being man for man is pretty much gone unfortunately, I often look and think how would a Peter canavan or a Mulligan get by today?

The game is now dictated by analysis and GPS. players are given stats a after a game and there are teams that if the players stats aren't good he's dropped, no wonder players are robotic.

The more frees now is definitely an issue. In the 80's you'd have to take a limb off half the time to get a free. Too much diving and conning of the ref. The rules have all been tinkered to suit the forward in the hope this will make creative football. The adverse effect of that is that teams know one on one, 9 times out of 10, the forward will either get past the defender or win a free. Therefore the next logical step is to prevent 1 on 1's. Make it easier to defend, enforce the steps more, allow that bit more contact in the tackle and you'd see defenders might be more confident 1 on 1. Until then, logic will always make the least risky option the most favourable. And that means packed defences and breaking at speed to get a score or free in a good position.

The problem is that teams have worked out that it makes sense to foul a lot of the time.

While there is some diving and conning of the ref, it is only a tiny percentage of the time- well over 95% of the time a free is awarded it is because of foul playe by the defender

I think a large part of the problem is that the punishment for conceding a foul isn't harsh enough.

If there was adequate punishment for committing foul play/cheating the amount of frees conceded would drop instantly.

It's hard to claim one way or another I suppose. But in my view, there's fouls now considered for minimal contact, which according to the text book could be identified as a foul. But should they be? I think given the nature of the game, we should tolerate a higher level of contact. But given the tackle is so loosely defined it's hard to say how that would be done. I think refs tend to err more on the side of caution now for fear of being overanalysed. How often hear in club games how a ref gets praised for letting the game flow. You see that less and less at county level imo.

It's not that hard to see that under the current rules it makes sense for teams to go out and foul constantly.

If it didn't make sense to foul, teams wouldn't be doing it.

When's the last time there was a championsip game with no foul play/cheating ?

Anytime I hear any ref being praised for letting the game flow I just think it's a politically correct way of saying that the person is fine with allowing cheating if it makes the game more dramatic and that fairness isn't important to that individual.

Also the blame is never placed on players or management for a game not flowing/being stop-start when they have far more to do with it than a referee. I've yet to see a game where a referee was out there deliberately breaking the rules. The fact that as you go up the underage levels discipline gets worse and worse until you get to adult level is a pretty poor reflection on the GAA.

More physical contact adds pretty much nothing in my opinion. Requires little to no skill, just being willing to impose yourself/increase the risk of hurting your opponent. Just encourages lads to spend more time in the gym/less time practising skills/ punishes the smaller and weaker individual.

If people want to see a game where players bodies and welfare is put at risk for the sake of more physical contact there's plenty of rugby games to be found.

Talked to a man in his 70's recently. He was saying he had not been to an underage club match in maybe 40 years and attended one recently. He was shocked at the level of everything. The gear, the warm up, the positional and tactical play, the skill level. (He was shocked at how professional it looked considering it was between two rural clubs).  He said what made football exciting in his day was that players made more mistakes, nothing was really tactical, game was man on man, everything was off the cuff.

Quote from: twohands!!! on March 23, 2023, 05:43:10 PM

Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2023, 05:28:17 PM

Quote from: twohands!!! on March 23, 2023, 03:50:51 PM

Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2023, 02:57:10 PM

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 01:52:09 PM

Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 23, 2023, 01:40:24 PM

Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2023, 01:13:25 PM

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 10:08:26 AM

Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Football has become a game that is very difficult to attract a neutral, I struggle to watch games that ive no dog in the fight and anyone I talk to seems to be the same. Hurling still has the appeal that you can watch a game between 2 top teams and it keeps you interested, football not so much.

I'm getting the same way too. You watch a game, and head down to throw the laundry in the dryer, and three or four minutes later you come back and maybe, just maybe, there's been a point scored. Leaving aside our current predicament, I'm even close to giving up on watching Donegal, such is the lack of enjoyment to be had from watching them. I said it in the thread for last year's Ulster Final, a game in which we were very competitive and could have won, that it would have been a hollow victory, so grim was the fare that was served up (think I said the same in the '16 final when Tyrone nicked it right at the end). We had some promising, fast moving football under Bonner in 18 and 19, but its been utterly dreadful since then and unfortunately the vast majority of the other teams are the same. Even watching Dublin go about their methodical, systematic, possession-based takedown of the opposition towards the end of the six in a row period was as dull as watching paint dry.

Apart from David Clifford and Shane Walsh and the runners of Mayo and your county loyalty, there just isn't much to attract spectators in gaelic football these days.

You'd wonder how that's different to games 20 years ago when scorelines are broadly the same?

Plenty of reasons, more frees now a days, a lot more scores come from dead balls now than did in the early 00s for example, id love to see the free counts from games in the 00s compared to now, forwards are told to go down like they've been shot if touched inside the 45 as its a free hit for a score, again down to the stats. Less wides, teams are now instructed not to shoot outside 'scoring zone' and 'give it to the shooters' you end up with similar scores but far less entertainment, teams holding the ball rather than shooting a wide and giving up possession.

its a different game now, the days of players/ teams being man for man is pretty much gone unfortunately, I often look and think how would a Peter canavan or a Mulligan get by today?

The game is now dictated by analysis and GPS. players are given stats a after a game and there are teams that if the players stats aren't good he's dropped, no wonder players are robotic.

The more frees now is definitely an issue. In the 80's you'd have to take a limb off half the time to get a free. Too much diving and conning of the ref. The rules have all been tinkered to suit the forward in the hope this will make creative football. The adverse effect of that is that teams know one on one, 9 times out of 10, the forward will either get past the defender or win a free. Therefore the next logical step is to prevent 1 on 1's. Make it easier to defend, enforce the steps more, allow that bit more contact in the tackle and you'd see defenders might be more confident 1 on 1. Until then, logic will always make the least risky option the most favourable. And that means packed defences and breaking at speed to get a score or free in a good position.

The problem is that teams have worked out that it makes sense to foul a lot of the time.

While there is some diving and conning of the ref, it is only a tiny percentage of the time- well over 95% of the time a free is awarded it is because of foul playe by the defender

I think a large part of the problem is that the punishment for conceding a foul isn't harsh enough.

If there was adequate punishment for committing foul play/cheating the amount of frees conceded would drop instantly.

It's hard to claim one way or another I suppose. But in my view, there's fouls now considered for minimal contact, which according to the text book could be identified as a foul. But should they be? I think given the nature of the game, we should tolerate a higher level of contact. But given the tackle is so loosely defined it's hard to say how that would be done. I think refs tend to err more on the side of caution now for fear of being overanalysed. How often hear in club games how a ref gets praised for letting the game flow. You see that less and less at county level imo.

It's not that hard to see that under the current rules it makes sense for teams to go out and foul constantly.

If it didn't make sense to foul, teams wouldn't be doing it.

When's the last time there was a championsip game with no foul play/cheating ?

Anytime I hear any ref being praised for letting the game flow I just think it's a politically correct way of saying that the person is fine with allowing cheating if it makes the game more dramatic and that fairness isn't important to that individual.

Also the blame is never placed on players or management for a game not flowing/being stop-start when they have far more to do with it than a referee. I've yet to see a game where a referee was out there deliberately breaking the rules. The fact that as you go up the underage levels discipline gets worse and worse until you get to adult level is a pretty poor reflection on the GAA.

More physical contact adds pretty much nothing in my opinion. Requires little to no skill, just being willing to impose yourself/increase the risk of hurting your opponent. Just encourages lads to spend more time in the gym/less time practising skills/ punishes the smaller and weaker individual.

If people want to see a game where players bodies and welfare is put at risk for the sake of more physical contact there's plenty of rugby games to be found.

More contact does not equate taking the heads of everyone at each opportunity. Contact is a sliding scale not an all or nothing equation. We're obviously looking at the issue from two different viewpoints.
I've no problem with punishing constant fouling. But I think what constitutes a foul is an issue. It's now got impossible to defend one on one as there is so much in favour of the forward. They get freedom on steps, the slightest contact is punished, the forward mark. The outcome of favouring the forward so much means teams defend more trying to reduce the risk. It's plain to see how that is impacting teams. It's got too easy for refs to blow a free to a forward because technically it could be viewed as a foul. My issue is with the level of contact. It's got so light touch now imo that this causes the stop start nature of the game.
Anyway, we're miles away on how we view the issues, but there's no doubt there are serious issues.
At no point was I blaming the refs. They have a nightmare job. I wouldn't be one for any amount of money.

https://twitter.com/FrTedQOTD/status/1638927799477227521?t=DZ8cCQav2IRXkw4-9-O8Rg&s=19

More of this will make it more entertaining

As a Derry fan it's the most i've enjoyed football for 20 years  ;D. People are quick to judge - we are still in winter, there has been record rainfall and pitches are heavy, let's see what the football is like in the Summer. Remember when Armagh and Tyrone broke through in the early 00s and we had the puke football comments from Spillane. Now we look back on it as a glorious period. I find pre 2000s football almost funny to watch now, there are so many errors and as someone rightly pointed out the score tallies haven't changed much. It's amazing people think that is a better game.

Quote from: Mario on March 24, 2023, 09:02:23 AM
As a Derry fan it's the most i've enjoyed football for 20 years  ;D. People are quick to judge - we are still in winter, there has been record rainfall and pitches are heavy, let's see what the football is like in the Summer. Remember when Armagh and Tyrone broke through in the early 00s and we had the puke football comments from Spillane. Now we look back on it as a glorious period. I find pre 2000s football almost funny to watch now, there are so many errors and as someone rightly pointed out the score tallies haven't changed much. It's amazing people think that is a better game.

Problem for me is that most of the football is done before summer. The finals are in July. height of summer on good hard pitches, and most counties are long done and sitting at home after playing bulk of their season on slow and heavy pitches.

i think the most intresting thing about this year will be how the format will play it out will games how the games will feel in the provincials and group stage

i remember tyrones game with fermanagh i think it was  last season and flood lights came on first time i can remember flood lights being used in a championship game except the covid championship

Quote from: Mario on March 24, 2023, 09:02:23 AM
As a Derry fan it's the most i've enjoyed football for 20 years  ;D. People are quick to judge - we are still in winter, there has been record rainfall and pitches are heavy, let's see what the football is like in the Summer. Remember when Armagh and Tyrone broke through in the early 00s and we had the puke football comments from Spillane. Now we look back on it as a glorious period. I find pre 2000s football almost funny to watch now, there are so many errors and as someone rightly pointed out the score tallies haven't changed much. It's amazing people think that is a better game.

I'm with you there.
I remember thinking the football in the early 90s was just awesome, Down, Donegal, Derry I thought played some amazing stuff.
Even the great Derry v Down 94 game widely regarded as one of the best games ever played. Watching those back now, there are some brilliant individuals but the pace is much slower. Despite the increase in gym activity between then and now, the physicality back then was off the charts in comparison to today. A Shoulder tackle was allowed.
The really frustrating thing in the game today is the complete lack of allowance for any type of physicality. If you look at the shoulders allowed to happen in hurling today, it's night and day between what's allowed in football.

Football has changed, the type of player has changed and the tactics have changed. It's a nonsense to compare football 20/30 years ago with football today as its all subjective. Kids growing up today will look at the county teams now as gods and in 20/30 years time will talk about how good football used to be.
It's just how it goes, nobody is right and nobody is wrong we just all have different view and I honestly believe it's the moments of magic we remember rather than entire games.
From the Derry perspective, the Johnny McGurk point against Dublin in 93 almost stands out more in my mind that any passage of play in the final that year.
Or Peter Canavan getting sent off a few minutes after coming on against us in Clones (I think).
I don't really recall how good we were when we thrashed Limerick at the start of this year.
We remember the tight games, the moments of brilliance and the players with individual brilliance like Tohill, Blaney, O'Se, Moynahin, Sheedy etc.

It would not matter what we changed it will always be better for some and worse for others so leave well enough alone.

I'm going to contradict myself now and say I was totally in favour of the black card. There was a real need to stop the cynical play (mostly by them Tyrone red-arses) and I saw the black card as a means to do that. It has it's problems though. Not sure it went far enough in terms of what it should be issued for, but also I think referee's dont apply it consistently and that is the main failure of it.

I've been involved in club football for the guts of the last 20 years in some capacity. The difference is night and day. Players are much better now, coaching is much better now. It's not just fitness either, far more players comfortable off either foot and decision making is much better. Defenders are better too, 20 years ago you'd a decent amount of defenders (not all) who were almost happy enough to let you get the ball and shadow you as long as you didn't make an arse out of them (and that was without a 'blanket defense') or else you'd the other side where a lot of defenders over-committed. Now you'd be lucky to see that in a reserve game.

At Intercounty level things are maybe slightly different as there are more better players but the same mostly applies. Our memories of games are great but if you go back and watch one in it's entirety the amount of mistakes is off the charts.

Quote from: oakleaflad on March 24, 2023, 10:40:29 AM
I've been involved in club football for the guts of the last 20 years in some capacity. The difference is night and day. Players are much better now, coaching is much better now. It's not just fitness either, far more players comfortable off either foot and decision making is much better. Defenders are better too, 20 years ago you'd a decent amount of defenders (not all) who were almost happy enough to let you get the ball and shadow you as long as you didn't make an arse out of them (and that was without a 'blanket defense') or else you'd the other side where a lot of defenders over-committed. Now you'd be lucky to see that in a reserve game.

At Intercounty level things are maybe slightly different as there are more better players but the same mostly applies. Our memories of games are great but if you go back and watch one in it's entirety the amount of mistakes is off the charts.

The problem is, even with all these skills, nobody has the ability to shot from 40-50 yards out.

It's all recycle, back and forth to someone is 25 yards out and then they shoot.

The best example of this is teams down a point and they have the ball for 2 mins, back and forth and nobody will take the shot on.  Then the whistle goes  Wtf?

I've seen it on countless occasions in matches.

Quote from: marty34 on March 24, 2023, 05:43:11 PM

Quote from: oakleaflad on March 24, 2023, 10:40:29 AM
I've been involved in club football for the guts of the last 20 years in some capacity. The difference is night and day. Players are much better now, coaching is much better now. It's not just fitness either, far more players comfortable off either foot and decision making is much better. Defenders are better too, 20 years ago you'd a decent amount of defenders (not all) who were almost happy enough to let you get the ball and shadow you as long as you didn't make an arse out of them (and that was without a 'blanket defense') or else you'd the other side where a lot of defenders over-committed. Now you'd be lucky to see that in a reserve game.

At Intercounty level things are maybe slightly different as there are more better players but the same mostly applies. Our memories of games are great but if you go back and watch one in it's entirety the amount of mistakes is off the charts.

The problem is, even with all these skills, nobody has the ability to shot from 40-50 yards out.

It's all recycle, back and forth to someone is 25 yards out and then they shoot.

The best example of this is teams down a point and they have the ball for 2 mins, back and forth and nobody will take the shot on.  Then the whistle goes  Wtf?

I've seen it on countless occasions in matches.

I'd say most people have the ability to kick a score from 40 yards it just do they have the balls? If you score it all good but miss and it's a hurl of abuse from teammates, managers and supporters

Quote from: Mourne Red on March 24, 2023, 05:52:53 PM

Quote from: marty34 on March 24, 2023, 05:43:11 PM

Quote from: oakleaflad on March 24, 2023, 10:40:29 AM
I've been involved in club football for the guts of the last 20 years in some capacity. The difference is night and day. Players are much better now, coaching is much better now. It's not just fitness either, far more players comfortable off either foot and decision making is much better. Defenders are better too, 20 years ago you'd a decent amount of defenders (not all) who were almost happy enough to let you get the ball and shadow you as long as you didn't make an arse out of them (and that was without a 'blanket defense') or else you'd the other side where a lot of defenders over-committed. Now you'd be lucky to see that in a reserve game.

At Intercounty level things are maybe slightly different as there are more better players but the same mostly applies. Our memories of games are great but if you go back and watch one in it's entirety the amount of mistakes is off the charts.

The problem is, even with all these skills, nobody has the ability to shot from 40-50 yards out.

It's all recycle, back and forth to someone is 25 yards out and then they shoot.

The best example of this is teams down a point and they have the ball for 2 mins, back and forth and nobody will take the shot on.  Then the whistle goes  Wtf?

I've seen it on countless occasions in matches.

I'd say most people have the ability to kick a score from 40 yards it just do they have the balls? If you score it all good but miss and it's a hurl of abuse from teammates, managers and supporters

That's a fair point too Mourne Red.

But I'd say, judging by the above, it's never practised in training.  All about possession nowadays and therefore, the current players can hardly do it.

Percentages.

Do I like watching Derry play in a game of fball, no not really, it can be very hard to watch, but I tell you what, I take it over playing open football against London in Division 4.,been there and prefer where we at now.

Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2023, 03:03:46 PM

Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 23, 2023, 02:13:06 PM

Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2023, 02:00:46 PM

Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 23, 2023, 01:40:24 PM

Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2023, 01:13:25 PM

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 10:08:26 AM

Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Football has become a game that is very difficult to attract a neutral, I struggle to watch games that ive no dog in the fight and anyone I talk to seems to be the same. Hurling still has the appeal that you can watch a game between 2 top teams and it keeps you interested, football not so much.

I'm getting the same way too. You watch a game, and head down to throw the laundry in the dryer, and three or four minutes later you come back and maybe, just maybe, there's been a point scored. Leaving aside our current predicament, I'm even close to giving up on watching Donegal, such is the lack of enjoyment to be had from watching them. I said it in the thread for last year's Ulster Final, a game in which we were very competitive and could have won, that it would have been a hollow victory, so grim was the fare that was served up (think I said the same in the '16 final when Tyrone nicked it right at the end). We had some promising, fast moving football under Bonner in 18 and 19, but its been utterly dreadful since then and unfortunately the vast majority of the other teams are the same. Even watching Dublin go about their methodical, systematic, possession-based takedown of the opposition towards the end of the six in a row period was as dull as watching paint dry.

Apart from David Clifford and Shane Walsh and the runners of Mayo and your county loyalty, there just isn't much to attract spectators in gaelic football these days.

You'd wonder how that's different to games 20 years ago when scorelines are broadly the same?

20 years ago, those three or four minutes might have had a couple of one on one duels at either end of the field where defenders came out on top or a team hit a wide. These days it's more likely that one of the teams spent two of those minutes arsing about hand-passing across the field 60m from the goal.

There was still one point scored in the 3/4 minutes you missed though.

The game has got less exciting but still plenty of goods bit's to games too. The all round skill level of players across the team is far higher than that of 20/30 years. The game had moved on from the Jim McGuiness era in recent seasons with much more pressing of kickouts etc. But there has been a worrying trend of increased negativity in this years league - hoping the trend doesn't continue into the championship.

But it's not about the scoring alone.

And I don't know if the skill level is higher.

It's not like teams are fielding with six Peter Canavans up front or two Daragh O'Ses in midfield these days.

Fitness, athleticism, team coordination, rehearsed plays and tactical discipline are certainly on a whole other plane, but the overall game is for the most part dull and risk averse and individual flare and skill and creativity expressed far less than they used to be.

As someone said earlier, how would Canavan and Mulligan fare today? Trevor Giles or Greg Blaney?

What would Michael Murphy have done had he arrived 10 years earlier?

Just my opinion.

After watching Tyrone v Armagh yesterday it got me thinking about some of the stuff written in this thread (to be fair it was one of the best games of the league).

Starting with the above - it's strange to make out that good flair plays can't stand out in the modern day game after last year's All Ireland final. Both Clifford and Walsh gave two of best individual performances seen in a final. Maybe there hasn't been as much room in this years league but league football is always different to championship due to conditions.

Another thing said on the thread is that players can't score from far out any more. Again if you look back at last year's final or even yesterday's game's that myth will quickly be dispelled. Look at the amount of cracking scores yesterday from defenders alone - Forker/McNamee/Hampsey/O'Sullivan (Kerry match).

Scores was another big thing mentioned. I decided to look back quickly at my own counties run to the 1995 All Ireland final (a glorious era for football). Tyrone that year averaged 15 points a game and conceded 12. Most scores in both the All Ireland final and ulster semi final v Derry came from Canavan frees. In our All Ireland success two years ago Tyrone averaged 21 per game and conceded 16. If you look back they weren't all these mechanical scores twenty yards out but loads of scores from out on the wings including many from defenders. I'm sure Kerry's scores would show something similar last year.

I haven't enjoyed a good few league games this year and there has been too much lateral football. But the league was never some kind of glorious competition filled with high scoring games. I think people are far too harsh on modern players who are better prepared and as skilful of those in any era.

Breheny is pretty scathing about the Ros-Mayo game at the weekend, detailing some of the prolonged passages of lateral, backwards, safe short passing to retain possession by both teams.

I'd switched it on myself for a few minutes here and there, but got bored very quickly each time as with so many other recent games, including my own county. The Liverpool Arsenal game was far, far superior entertainment by comparison.

If this style of play continues through the season and nothing is done to address it, Gaelic football is going to be in trouble. It's only entertainment at the end of the day, and people are going to stop watching if things don't change.

Like a lot of things in the GAA it isn't until it actually arrives and happens so people realise it's all a bit shit. Players, pundits and fans. For the top 15 or so teams that's what the new structure is at this stage. They know it and aren't really bothered and the foot is taken off the gas. It'll get worse in the next few years when teams figure out no real advantage to getting to league final or busting to win your province.

I'd not even call the current structure a hybrid model of league or knockout. We going to play a lot of games to lose 4 teams. Might warm up round then. But till then we will suffer poor football with light touch intensity as teams regather themselves after the league until the knockout stages.

It's all rather underwhelming and will be played as such. No rules changes will affect that and until the provincial structure/power remains until it eats itself will we see a proper competitive structure.

The best way to watch football now is to record or pause, then go for a stroll, come back and fast-forward during the over-and-back. Only wish I could do the same for club games, where the 15-players-behind-the-ball is even more tedious; we still haven't found a rule to disincentive this tactic.
Would 13-a-side help? Would also be a benefit to smaller counties and clubs.

They have to try something. Keeping three or four forwards up the field would at least limit the congestion at the other end. Make teams go long with kick outs to speed the game up and give defenses less time to set. There are lots of things they could try. Anything but the mindless, endless, gutless lateral shite we're currently being forced to endure.

Quote from: J70 on April 12, 2023, 02:04:40 PM
They have to try something. Keeping three or four forwards up the field would at least limit the congestion at the other end. Make teams go long with kick outs to speed the game up and give defenses less time to set. There are lots of things they could try. Anything but the mindless, endless, gutless lateral shite we're currently being forced to endure.

Can try all you like but the coaches and managers will just adapt and become cautious as it's far easier to coach a team to try and not lose than to coach a team to win and make scores.

Quote from: Louther on April 12, 2023, 02:11:55 PM

Quote from: J70 on April 12, 2023, 02:04:40 PM
They have to try something. Keeping three or four forwards up the field would at least limit the congestion at the other end. Make teams go long with kick outs to speed the game up and give defenses less time to set. There are lots of things they could try. Anything but the mindless, endless, gutless lateral shite we're currently being forced to endure.

Can try all you like but the coaches and managers will just adapt and become cautious as it's far easier to coach a team to try and not lose than to coach a team to win and make scores.

Then the game's future is fucked.

Speaking personally, I've got better things to do than watch what it is becoming.

Quote from: J70 on April 12, 2023, 02:46:35 PM

Quote from: Louther on April 12, 2023, 02:11:55 PM

Quote from: J70 on April 12, 2023, 02:04:40 PM
They have to try something. Keeping three or four forwards up the field would at least limit the congestion at the other end. Make teams go long with kick outs to speed the game up and give defenses less time to set. There are lots of things they could try. Anything but the mindless, endless, gutless lateral shite we're currently being forced to endure.

Can try all you like but the coaches and managers will just adapt and become cautious as it's far easier to coach a team to try and not lose than to coach a team to win and make scores.

Then the game's future is fucked.

Speaking personally, I've got better things to do than watch what it is becoming.

I'd not disagree.

I'd enjoy an underage game or lower level club game as they are littered with mistakes and generally more open, leading to a more entertaining game. The quality becomes less of an issue if the game is close.

The crowds have been disappearing from the inter county game in recent years. Mayo, Armagh and Covid have hidden this in Recent years.

Quote from: yellowcard on March 23, 2023, 10:57:18 AM
Even hurling has become fairly tedious though. The same few teams playing each other over and over again and it has got very much possession based as well with a lot fewer goals in matches it would seem.

Pretty much agree with most commentary on the ills of football and am genuinely at a loss as to why no attempts have been made to return the game to something entertaining to a neutral. Maybe it's because most games have a period where  football breaks out and makes us think that matches are better than they were in reality?
Some of the most straightforward fixes appear to be requirements to keep a certain amount of players in each half at all times or more interestingly not allowing a team to play the ball back into their own half.
However, for all its ills, football appeals more than modern day top level hurling which is becoming increasingly unwatchable.
This article from hurler on the ditch is a good summary of much of what's going wrong:
https://hurlerontheditch267913442.wordpress.com/
Basically he laments the lack of goal threat, the ability to score at will from ridiculous ranges, incessant throw balls, unlimited steps, lack of contests.
I'd obviously take issue with his assertion that football has been proactive in making sufficient changes though, both codes need to adopt the approach of other sports and make changes to keep one step ahead of the coaches!!

Quote from: onefineday on April 14, 2023, 08:42:25 AM

Quote from: yellowcard on March 23, 2023, 10:57:18 AM
Even hurling has become fairly tedious though. The same few teams playing each other over and over again and it has got very much possession based as well with a lot fewer goals in matches it would seem.

Pretty much agree with most commentary on the ills of football and am genuinely at a loss as to why no attempts have been made to return the game to something entertaining to a neutral. Maybe it's because most games have a period where  football breaks out and makes us think that matches are better than they were in reality?
Some of the most straightforward fixes appear to be requirements to keep a certain amount of players in each half at all times or more interestingly not allowing a team to play the ball back into their own half.
However, for all its ills, football appeals more than modern day top level hurling which is becoming increasingly unwatchable.
This article from hurler on the ditch is a good summary of much of what's going wrong:
https://hurlerontheditch267913442.wordpress.com/
Basically he laments the lack of goal threat, the ability to score at will from ridiculous ranges, incessant throw balls, unlimited steps, lack of contests.
I'd obviously take issue with his assertion that football has been proactive in making sufficient changes though, both codes need to adopt the approach of other sports and make changes to keep one step ahead of the coaches!!

Read the article there and makes some good points, I love hurling but to be honest id far rather watch a club game than a county game these days. Club level there's a bit more of balls into the forwards as opposed to just getting the ball between the 2 65s and hitting a shot, it really is getting predictable and boring. I dont know, there's no real way to change it. If you tried to implement a you cant score from your own half policy it would just encourage teams to drop everyone back and only engage at half way, akin to football. maybe make a goal worth 5 points? at the very least keeps teams in it for longer.

I think the main problem is Hurling as a game is best watched when players are playing off the cuff, I loved the teams of the late 90s and 00s some cracking hell for leather battles, just  dont get the same feel for it now. The players are class, they are fittest they've ever been but it does just seem too take away from the game as a spectacle.

I think in hurling, and in football, it comes back to the same thing - a Jim Gavin line. "It's all about the process". There's a lot less chance / spontaneity etc in the games now. You look at how dublin played the game, and no doubt they were fantastic, but it was about playing percentages etc so they constantly recycled possession until they were in the best possible place to score. Less chances being taken.

That said in the hurling KK still just drive it in so you'll get some good games involving them. Limerick will do the thing very precisely.

Football between the top teams I think will be better this next few years as there's no one who is capable of playing as precisely as dublin were. There will be defensive drivel in a lot of cases until the last few stages though...

Games evolve over time, no matter what the sport is.

There are currently some great matches, some average matches and some brutal matches. That's sport.

If you're expecting to go out every day and see a 5-23 to 4-16 scoreline, there's something wrong.

People need to get their expectations right.

It's sport.

The fog of time muddies my memory.

I can't remember if a 1-6 to 0-7 game of catch and boot it as hard as you can and a rake of 1v1s across the field was better than 2-14 to 1-13 modern game with a smarter gameplan defensively.

The former probably was more exciting.

Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 27, 2023, 09:20:26 AM

Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2023, 03:03:46 PM

Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 23, 2023, 02:13:06 PM

Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2023, 02:00:46 PM

Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 23, 2023, 01:40:24 PM

Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2023, 01:13:25 PM

Quote from: themac_23 on March 23, 2023, 10:08:26 AM

Quote from: Sportacus on March 23, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Football has become a game that is very difficult to attract a neutral, I struggle to watch games that ive no dog in the fight and anyone I talk to seems to be the same. Hurling still has the appeal that you can watch a game between 2 top teams and it keeps you interested, football not so much.

I'm getting the same way too. You watch a game, and head down to throw the laundry in the dryer, and three or four minutes later you come back and maybe, just maybe, there's been a point scored. Leaving aside our current predicament, I'm even close to giving up on watching Donegal, such is the lack of enjoyment to be had from watching them. I said it in the thread for last year's Ulster Final, a game in which we were very competitive and could have won, that it would have been a hollow victory, so grim was the fare that was served up (think I said the same in the '16 final when Tyrone nicked it right at the end). We had some promising, fast moving football under Bonner in 18 and 19, but its been utterly dreadful since then and unfortunately the vast majority of the other teams are the same. Even watching Dublin go about their methodical, systematic, possession-based takedown of the opposition towards the end of the six in a row period was as dull as watching paint dry.

Apart from David Clifford and Shane Walsh and the runners of Mayo and your county loyalty, there just isn't much to attract spectators in gaelic football these days.

You'd wonder how that's different to games 20 years ago when scorelines are broadly the same?

20 years ago, those three or four minutes might have had a couple of one on one duels at either end of the field where defenders came out on top or a team hit a wide. These days it's more likely that one of the teams spent two of those minutes arsing about hand-passing across the field 60m from the goal.

There was still one point scored in the 3/4 minutes you missed though.

The game has got less exciting but still plenty of goods bit's to games too. The all round skill level of players across the team is far higher than that of 20/30 years. The game had moved on from the Jim McGuiness era in recent seasons with much more pressing of kickouts etc. But there has been a worrying trend of increased negativity in this years league - hoping the trend doesn't continue into the championship.

But it's not about the scoring alone.

And I don't know if the skill level is higher.

It's not like teams are fielding with six Peter Canavans up front or two Daragh O'Ses in midfield these days.

Fitness, athleticism, team coordination, rehearsed plays and tactical discipline are certainly on a whole other plane, but the overall game is for the most part dull and risk averse and individual flare and skill and creativity expressed far less than they used to be.

As someone said earlier, how would Canavan and Mulligan fare today? Trevor Giles or Greg Blaney?

What would Michael Murphy have done had he arrived 10 years earlier?

Just my opinion.

After watching Tyrone v Armagh yesterday it got me thinking about some of the stuff written in this thread (to be fair it was one of the best games of the league).

Starting with the above - it's strange to make out that good flair plays can't stand out in the modern day game after last year's All Ireland final. Both Clifford and Walsh gave two of best individual performances seen in a final. Maybe there hasn't been as much room in this years league but league football is always different to championship due to conditions.

Another thing said on the thread is that players can't score from far out any more. Again if you look back at last year's final or even yesterday's game's that myth will quickly be dispelled. Look at the amount of cracking scores yesterday from defenders alone - Forker/McNamee/Hampsey/O'Sullivan (Kerry match).

Scores was another big thing mentioned. I decided to look back quickly at my own counties run to the 1995 All Ireland final (a glorious era for football). Tyrone that year averaged 15 points a game and conceded 12. Most scores in both the All Ireland final and ulster semi final v Derry came from Canavan frees diving. In our All Ireland success two years ago Tyrone averaged 21 per game and conceded 16. If you look back they weren't all these mechanical scores twenty yards out but loads of scores from out on the wings including many from defenders. I'm sure Kerry's scores would show something similar last year.

I haven't enjoyed a good few league games this year and there has been too much lateral football. But the league was never some kind of glorious competition filled with high scoring games. I think people are far too harsh on modern players who are better prepared and as skilful of those in any era.

Yeah, still bitter :-)

Quote from: ONeill on April 14, 2023, 09:20:02 AM
The fog of time muddies my memory.

I can't remember if a 1-6 to 0-7 game of catch and boot it as hard as you can and a rake of 1v1s across the field was better than 2-14 to 1-13 modern game with a smarter gameplan defensively.

The former probably was more exciting.

There's no doubting that at all levels individual skills are much higher, players are generally much fitter and tactically aware, but keep ball is mind numbingly boring for spectators and even though it may result in a well worked score (or the keeper coming up to knock over a 55m free) the lack of contests makes it all a bit underwhelming.
At intercountry level where the game's top talents are on display, some genuine flashes of brilliance and good high speed attacking play often breaks out sporadically, and masks what happens for 60% of the game - it also helps for us Derry wans that as soon as we embrace a modern game plan, we start becoming a force again - and there's no doubt that does sugarcoat what we're watching.  We also understand the incredible commitment that players at that level are putting into their game and that also inhibits us from criticising the product.
But as 15 men defences and their antidote, endless recycling and keep ball are becoming increasingly common at all levels of club football this is something which must be addressed.
Not only is it unattractive, but it's not something that players enjoy either. I've a number of nephews playing club football and a common complaint is the lack of enjoyment or satisfaction from playing the game. These are lads in their late teens, early 20s, there's other things they can do with their time that won't involve a manager parachuted in on a few quid per session giving them a bollocking for taking a shot from the wrong area or not assuming the correct defensive position in the blanket. They play because of family attachment to the club, pride in the community and the bond with the lads they grew up with, not because the game is fun for the most part.
They'll probably keep on playing because rurally, GAA is bigger than the games, in urban areas though, that's definitely not a given.
I understand the comments about games evolving and how if we look back at old games we see that they weren't the classics we picture them as being, but it's equally valid to point out that looking back at those games what they often packed in skills they made up for with excitement and contests which kept fans engaged, that engagement isn't a feature of many modern games where the recent upgrade of croke park wifi will help more of us while away time on our phones!
Almost all sports evolve, rules are changed to keep the game attractive, it's a constant game of cat and mouse, we should be happy to embrace change - it's a positive despite what the self interest of top level coaches tell us.

As Peter Canavan opined a good while ago, maybe it's time to reduce to 13-a-side: with greater fitness levels, more strategic management, etc., there's only one way that can go whilst the pitch dimensions remain the same -- ball retention, at whatever cost to the sporting spectacle.

With 13-a-side, the dynamic is changed completely: does a team prioritise defence over offence, or vice versa; blanket defences will have porous holes; hand-passing ball retention is much more risky; it reduces, inescapably, to the better ball players in the on-pitch cohort, I'd reckon.

Quote from: onefineday on April 15, 2023, 07:25:41 AM

Quote from: ONeill on April 14, 2023, 09:20:02 AM
The fog of time muddies my memory.

I can't remember if a 1-6 to 0-7 game of catch and boot it as hard as you can and a rake of 1v1s across the field was better than 2-14 to 1-13 modern game with a smarter gameplan defensively.

The former probably was more exciting.

There's no doubting that at all levels individual skills are much higher, players are generally much fitter and tactically aware, but keep ball is mind numbingly boring for spectators and even though it may result in a well worked score (or the keeper coming up to knock over a 55m free) the lack of contests makes it all a bit underwhelming.
At intercountry level where the game's top talents are on display, some genuine flashes of brilliance and good high speed attacking play often breaks out sporadically, and masks what happens for 60% of the game - it also helps for us Derry wans that as soon as we embrace a modern game plan, we start becoming a force again - and there's no doubt that does sugarcoat what we're watching.  We also understand the incredible commitment that players at that level are putting into their game and that also inhibits us from criticising the product.
But as 15 men defences and their antidote, endless recycling and keep ball are becoming increasingly common at all levels of club football this is something which must be addressed.
Not only is it unattractive, but it's not something that players enjoy either. I've a number of nephews playing club football and a common complaint is the lack of enjoyment or satisfaction from playing the game. These are lads in their late teens, early 20s, there's other things they can do with their time that won't involve a manager parachuted in on a few quid per session giving them a bollocking for taking a shot from the wrong area or not assuming the correct defensive position in the blanket. They play because of family attachment to the club, pride in the community and the bond with the lads they grew up with, not because the game is fun for the most part.
They'll probably keep on playing because rurally, GAA is bigger than the games, in urban areas though, that's definitely not a given.
I understand the comments about games evolving and how if we look back at old games we see that they weren't the classics we picture them as being, but it's equally valid to point out that looking back at those games what they often packed in skills they made up for with excitement and contests which kept fans engaged, that engagement isn't a feature of many modern games where the recent upgrade of croke park wifi will help more of us while away time on our phones!
Almost all sports evolve, rules are changed to keep the game attractive, it's a constant game of cat and mouse, we should be happy to embrace change - it's a positive despite what the self interest of top level coaches tell us.

Good post.👍

Definitely think 13 a side is worth a shot.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 15, 2023, 03:35:21 PM
As Peter Canavan opined a good while ago, maybe it's time to reduce to 13-a-side: with greater fitness levels, more strategic management, etc., there's only one way that can go whilst the pitch dimensions remain the same -- ball retention, at whatever cost to the sporting spectacle.

With 13-a-side, the dynamic is changed completely: does a team prioritise defence over offence, or vice versa; blanket defences will have porous holes; hand-passing ball retention is much more risky; it reduces, inescapably, to the better ball players in the on-pitch cohort, I'd reckon.

Perhaps at a higher level 13 aside would work as teams already have the conditioning. I would have concerns at lower levels where the skilled player would be squeezed out as fitter players are prioritised. Junior teams could no longer afford to carry the lazy sod with great feet or hands as their over wintering habits leave them exposed in the bigger spaces afforded by the reduction in players.

Quote from: LeoMc on April 15, 2023, 04:52:20 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 15, 2023, 03:35:21 PM
As Peter Canavan opined a good while ago, maybe it's time to reduce to 13-a-side: with greater fitness levels, more strategic management, etc., there's only one way that can go whilst the pitch dimensions remain the same -- ball retention, at whatever cost to the sporting spectacle.

With 13-a-side, the dynamic is changed completely: does a team prioritise defence over offence, or vice versa; blanket defences will have porous holes; hand-passing ball retention is much more risky; it reduces, inescapably, to the better ball players in the on-pitch cohort, I'd reckon.

Perhaps at a higher level 13 aside would work as teams already have the conditioning. I would have concerns at lower levels where the skilled player would be squeezed out as fitter players are prioritised. Junior teams could no longer afford to carry the lazy sod with great feet or hands as their over wintering habits leave them exposed in the bigger spaces afforded by the reduction in players.

Sure thing, it wouldn't be universally beneficial perhaps, but surely it needs serious consideration and exploration, if only at the Senior County level, on a trial basis?

Would mean less W/O reserve league games anyway.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 15, 2023, 04:58:38 PM

Quote from: LeoMc on April 15, 2023, 04:52:20 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 15, 2023, 03:35:21 PM
As Peter Canavan opined a good while ago, maybe it's time to reduce to 13-a-side: with greater fitness levels, more strategic management, etc., there's only one way that can go whilst the pitch dimensions remain the same -- ball retention, at whatever cost to the sporting spectacle.

With 13-a-side, the dynamic is changed completely: does a team prioritise defence over offence, or vice versa; blanket defences will have porous holes; hand-passing ball retention is much more risky; it reduces, inescapably, to the better ball players in the on-pitch cohort, I'd reckon.

Perhaps at a higher level 13 aside would work as teams already have the conditioning. I would have concerns at lower levels where the skilled player would be squeezed out as fitter players are prioritised. Junior teams could no longer afford to carry the lazy sod with great feet or hands as their over wintering habits leave them exposed in the bigger spaces afforded by the reduction in players.

Sure thing, it wouldn't be universally beneficial perhaps, but surely it needs serious consideration and exploration, if only at the Senior County level, on a trial basis?

Yeah definitely worth looking at in higher level games though

Which 2 positions would you lose?

It's not necessarily about losing positions, it's more about doing more with fewer, if you're good enough.

Personally, I'd ditch the corner forwards with their fancy boots and bleached hair.

Ok, a wing-forward and a wing-back. 10 and 7. Retire the jerseys. Jordan and Dooher.

6 and 11.

That's the whole point though, as I see it: we don't lose any of the 15 positions, we need to be smarter about how we cover them, rather, with fewer on field resources.

Like bilocation?

13-a-side would also make it easier for small counties/clubs to compete

The classic Tohill and McGilligan. Wouldn't fancy telling Brian he's out.

Quote from: befair on April 15, 2023, 10:12:38 PM
13-a-side would also make it easier for small counties/clubs to compete

That's the big one and one of the reasons that the Big hitters would canvas for things to remain the same.

Close it down lads!

Quote from: screenexile on April 16, 2023, 05:42:11 PM
Close it down lads!

Absolutely; high scoring, exciting game in Omagh, with a lot of skill with a few errors to keep it interesting.

As a way of curbing the influence of athletes on the game rather than drinking bans we make drinking obligatory for county players. A feed of Supermacs after training to keep things balanced.

A moment of pure couldntgiveafcukery from Ryan O'Toole and we're all in love with gaelic football again.  A truly historic goal and two fingers to all the coaches telling lads to play it safe.

Well that goes 2 ways, McNamee tried the same was blocked, had it went in, game over, still from that angle I been going for a point.

Quote from: armaghniac on April 16, 2023, 05:53:10 PM

Quote from: screenexile on April 16, 2023, 05:42:11 PM
Close it down lads!

Absolutely; high scoring, exciting game in Omagh, with a lot of skill with a few errors to keep it interesting.

Yes, great watch, old school second half with both teams playing with what I'm sure many top level coaches would describe as naivety, plenty of chances, bad decisions, great scores, errors, no sweepers and contests. Now, are there steps we can take to ensure that we get more of this??

Is there a chance that the game was looser than expected because pressure was off a bit in that a run to the final would be nice, but for the teams involved, not that important really as both are guaranteed all Ireland berths?