Middle East landscape rapidly changing

[Mike Sheehy]

Have their been any serious proposals regarding re-drawing of the old Anglo-French lines in the sand to carve out new territories along Sunni & Shia lines?

There have been proposals but its hard to gauge the seriousness . The problem is you would still have significant minorities falling within those borders. An obvious first step would be an autonomous Sunni region like Iraqi Kurdistan and that has recently been suggested by the Kurds themselves. That way the central govt could act as a bulwark against persecution of minorities within the autonomous regions, however, that would still require a commitment against sectarianism by the central govt which, going by recent history, will not be forthcoming.

[Mike Sheehy]

What do you think Seafoid ? Are you actually serious about carving out a Sunni homeland in Iraq ?

After all, you did say yourself that ISIS "had a point" in this regard. I find it very troubing (but not surprising in your case)  that you take any sort of direction from a band of murdering, fantical scum that have no intention of respecting any borders until they have built their muslim caliphate (only the "right" kind of Muslims of course) .

Nevertheless, lets put that aside for the moment, and allow you to give more specifics on this homeland that you speak of. Where would you draw the borders, exactly ?

[seafoid]

The brits are reopening their embassy in iran. ITN say britain needs Iran. So do the Yanks. WTF. What happened to creating their own reality?

[rossiewanderer]

 Muslim Countries would be mostly all democratic if it was not for Western intrusion.

[Mike Sheehy]

The brits are reopening their embassy in iran. ITN say britain needs Iran. So do the Yanks. WTF. What happened to creating their own reality?

Iran have been supporting Shia sectarianism in Iraq and Syria for years now and specifically they have been undermining any attempts to establish a stable democracy in Iraq. Now their meddling has helped unleash an extreme Sunni backlash and they face the nightmare of a Sunni fundamentalist dominated state right on their doorstep. This was a serious miscalculation on their part no matter what pro-Iranian PR bots like you spout.

Now, about that Sunni homeland in Iraq that you are advocating ....what will the borders look like ?

[johnneycool]

The brits are reopening their embassy in iran. ITN say britain needs Iran. So do the Yanks. WTF. What happened to creating their own reality?

Iran have been supporting Shia sectarianism in Iraq and Syria for years now and specifically they have been undermining any attempts to establish a stable democracy in Iraq. Now their meddling has helped unleash an extreme Sunni backlash and they face the nightmare of a Sunni fundamentalist dominated state right on their doorstep. This was a serious miscalculation on their part no matter what pro-Iranian PR bots like you spout.

Now, about that Sunni homeland in Iraq that you are advocating ....what will the borders look like ?

It seems this ISIS is heavy funded by private backers in Saudi, Turkey, Kuwait and Qatar, but to what end?
Who gains from yet more destabilisation in the area?

[seafoid]

The brits are reopening their embassy in iran. ITN say britain needs Iran. So do the Yanks. WTF. What happened to creating their own reality?

Iran have been supporting Shia sectarianism in Iraq and Syria for years now and specifically they have been undermining any attempts to establish a stable democracy in Iraq. Now their meddling has helped unleash an extreme Sunni backlash and they face the nightmare of a Sunni fundamentalist dominated state right on their doorstep. This was a serious miscalculation on their part no matter what pro-Iranian PR bots like you spout.

Now, about that Sunni homeland in Iraq that you are advocating ....what will the borders look like ?

It seems this ISIS is heavy funded by private backers in Saudi, Turkey, Kuwait and Qatar, but to what end?
Who gains from yet more destabilisation in the area?

Reconstruction companies. War keeps the oil price up as well.

[johnneycool]

The brits are reopening their embassy in iran. ITN say britain needs Iran. So do the Yanks. WTF. What happened to creating their own reality?

Iran have been supporting Shia sectarianism in Iraq and Syria for years now and specifically they have been undermining any attempts to establish a stable democracy in Iraq. Now their meddling has helped unleash an extreme Sunni backlash and they face the nightmare of a Sunni fundamentalist dominated state right on their doorstep. This was a serious miscalculation on their part no matter what pro-Iranian PR bots like you spout.

Now, about that Sunni homeland in Iraq that you are advocating ....what will the borders look like ?

I thinks its inevitable that there will be some sort of redrawing of borders, but like the Kurds whose area straddles four separate countries its hard to see how this will pan out.

The various factions of Sunnis, Shia's are having the strings pulled by the Saudi's, Iranians and whoever. It's all going to get messy with no winners.

I'm not sure what the international community can do other than to stop selling arms into that region, but that's not going to happen. Too much money to be made.

[Mike Sheehy]

The brits are reopening their embassy in iran. ITN say britain needs Iran. So do the Yanks. WTF. What happened to creating their own reality?

Iran have been supporting Shia sectarianism in Iraq and Syria for years now and specifically they have been undermining any attempts to establish a stable democracy in Iraq. Now their meddling has helped unleash an extreme Sunni backlash and they face the nightmare of a Sunni fundamentalist dominated state right on their doorstep. This was a serious miscalculation on their part no matter what pro-Iranian PR bots like you spout.

Now, about that Sunni homeland in Iraq that you are advocating ....what will the borders look like ?

It seems this ISIS is heavy funded by private backers in Saudi, Turkey, Kuwait and Qatar, but to what end?
Who gains from yet more destabilisation in the area?

Nobody "gains" by further destabilization they just don't "lose" according to their own aims. In the case of the Sunni dominated gulf states that you mentioned, "losing" would be be increased Shia domination of Sunni's in Iraq and Syria so they will do their utmost to avoid this including funding ISIS.


All this is not new and these proxy wars have been going on since the time of the first Caliphate long before the "west" as we know it came into existance which is why it is annoying when people talk ominously about "consequences" for the "west" and what the "west" should or should not do. No matter what the "west" does this extremist religious idiocy will still exist.

Of course the hawks in the US are agitating to intervene again and are lambasting Obama for pulling out too soon but that is wrong on two counts
1)  The agreement between the Iraqis and the Bush administration was that the US would withdraw by 2011. Obama did try to persuade the Iraqis to extend the agreement but it was rejected due to the immunity issue. Fair enough, the Iraqis were perfectly within their rights to reject it because of that issue but, ultimately, it was their choice.
2) The US would have to leave eventually. There was always going to be a period of crisis. The question now is whether Iraqi's decide that a stable non-sectarian democracy free of Iranian meddling is what they want......or not.

[Mike Sheehy]

The brits are reopening their embassy in iran. ITN say britain needs Iran. So do the Yanks. WTF. What happened to creating their own reality?

Iran have been supporting Shia sectarianism in Iraq and Syria for years now and specifically they have been undermining any attempts to establish a stable democracy in Iraq. Now their meddling has helped unleash an extreme Sunni backlash and they face the nightmare of a Sunni fundamentalist dominated state right on their doorstep. This was a serious miscalculation on their part no matter what pro-Iranian PR bots like you spout.

Now, about that Sunni homeland in Iraq that you are advocating ....what will the borders look like ?

It seems this ISIS is heavy funded by private backers in Saudi, Turkey, Kuwait and Qatar, but to what end?
Who gains from yet more destabilisation in the area?

Reconstruction companies. War keeps the oil price up as well.

As usual you contribute nothing just the usual tired cliches. You are completely out of your depth Seafoid.

I am still waiting for an answer on the Sunni homeland.

I'll bet you don't have the guts to answer...I know, you know and the board knows that any answer you give leaves you open to all sorts of tricky questions on consistency which is why lads like you never try and deal with specifics. Its so much easier blaming Oil and the jews.

[Mike Sheehy]

Also, this whole mantra about Oil is bullshit anyway. No one is innocent when it comes to Oil. If you want to moralize about oil stop consuming it.

[seafoid]

Saudi needs high oil prices to keep the social welfare bill funded.
It could get very interesting when the Saudi model breaks down.
Those princes are very expensive to run and there are thousands of them.

[Mike Sheehy]

The Saudi model would break down a lot quicker if people would stop consuming oil or buy only from sources they deem acceptable (and accept the higher prices such a restricted supply would entail). There is no point preaching about it if you don't back it up with your own deeds however small they may be.

What about Iranian Oil Seafoid ? .....you know, that country whose leadership that you described as "very dependable, very rational".....does Oil have a religion for you Seafoid...are you  pro-Shiite Oil and anti Sunni Oil by any chance ? Of course it is purely coincidental that the Sunni Gulf states would be seen as more favourable toward Israel than the Iranians.

I can read you like a book Seafoid.....always the hidden agenda.....

[seafoid]

13 years on
http://www.mnftiu.cc/category/gywo/

Operating Enduring Freedom didn't endure, did it ?

[Denn Forever]

Let's go Venezuelan.