Middle East landscape rapidly changing

[lawnseed]

btw where is give her Dixie ?  He disappeared very quickly once he saw that he might have to actually argue his position.

He is probably talking to adults

Nah, he is just an anti-Semite with a bono-complex. Gobshites like him are dime a dozen, they use the Palestinian cause as a vehicle for self-glorification. You see them on the streets of Dublin, Cork, Galway with their loudspeakers any given weekend. All puffed up on their self-importance. As soon as any real debate breaks out they run a mile. c***ts the lot of them.

mike your a wee bit too close to the bone with the abuse it doesn't add anything to your arguement

I am deliberately being close to the bone. The softly, softly approach never works with extremists like seafoid. You have to force him to engage and argue his position in his own words. Only then can people make up their mind as to what he is really about.

Unfortunately, his own words still don't extend to acknowledging that jews have a right to self defence which further confirms my assertion that he is an anti-Semite.

you re-quoted a homophobic remark which isn't the type of stuff the gaaboard is about. you say you are trying to force him to engage calling him names??? you need to delete your post and engage him in the manner set out in the rules. we are all proud gaels on this forum and are conscious of the fact that other people not favourably disposed to our association could use your approach as an example of intolerance and a stick to beat us with..that's the same for each of you who has let this go too far delete the personal abuse

wtf does this mean ? Are you saying that asking (pleading) for tolerance for jews is somehow a stick that people "not favourably disposed to our association" could use against us ? wtf are you on about ?

no i'm saying that using homophobic language and personal abuse simply rubber stamps a view held by many people that gaels are knuckle trailing bigots who cannot adhere to the simple rules set out by the moderaters of this board. you do realise that this is the web and your comments are on view all over the world not just in the room you are in. you should of course defend your position/argument but in a fashion becoming of a member of this forum. why don't you try a different less abrasive approach. you could begin by removing/amending the posts in question. we all enjoy the craic here lets keep it good craic

[Mike Sheehy]

btw where is give her Dixie ?  He disappeared very quickly once he saw that he might have to actually argue his position.

He is probably talking to adults

Nah, he is just an anti-Semite with a bono-complex. Gobshites like him are dime a dozen, they use the Palestinian cause as a vehicle for self-glorification. You see them on the streets of Dublin, Cork, Galway with their loudspeakers any given weekend. All puffed up on their self-importance. As soon as any real debate breaks out they run a mile. c***ts the lot of them.

mike your a wee bit too close to the bone with the abuse it doesn't add anything to your arguement

I am deliberately being close to the bone. The softly, softly approach never works with extremists like seafoid. You have to force him to engage and argue his position in his own words. Only then can people make up their mind as to what he is really about.

Unfortunately, his own words still don't extend to acknowledging that jews have a right to self defence which further confirms my assertion that he is an anti-Semite.

you re-quoted a homophobic remark which isn't the type of stuff the gaaboard is about. you say you are trying to force him to engage calling him names??? you need to delete your post and engage him in the manner set out in the rules. we are all proud gaels on this forum and are conscious of the fact that other people not favourably disposed to our association could use your approach as an example of intolerance and a stick to beat us with..that's the same for each of you who has let this go too far delete the personal abuse

wtf does this mean ? Are you saying that asking (pleading) for tolerance for jews is somehow a stick that people "not favourably disposed to our association" could use against us ? wtf are you on about ?

no i'm saying that using homophobic language and personal abuse simply rubber stamps a view held by many people that gaels are knuckle trailing bigots who cannot adhere to the simple rules set out by the moderaters of this board. you do realise that this is the web and your comments are on view all over the world not just in the room you are in. you should of course defend your position/argument but in a fashion becoming of a member of this forum. why don't you try a different less abrasive approach. you could begin by removing/amending the posts in question. we all enjoy the craic here lets keep it good craic

I think if the eyes of the world are trained on this thread they will probably wonder why some of the contributors to this thread are so anti-Semitic and unwilling to accept an even basic level of balance wrt the situation in the middle east.

I will not be removing/amending posts. I don't give a shit about you having the craic. This thread is about a subject far more serious than your need to have  "good craic"

[theskull1]

A complete nob jockey

I agree, deiseach is a complete knob jockey. All I wanted to know is when is it ok to launch a rocket and kill Israeli civilians. I ask that in the context that I've already repeatedly stated that Israel is a rogue state that murders innocent civilians itself. Seems it is an impossible question for heroes on here to answer. I will answer myself - it is never ok to launch a rocket at civilians and kill them and unfortunately that also applies to Seafood and Dixie's friends in Hama's just as it does to the IDF.

Every sane person would agree that it "should" never be OK to kill. I can't imagine the type of world some people live in when they get to the point where they believe they have been driven to carry out acts which they knows will kill (what we all would agree are) innocents. Its all a matter of perspective how you view the people who through despair feel that is the best option available to them and who has driven them to that point. I believe we are dealing with utter despair in Palestine. Must be hell on earth. What else can the oppressed do other than lie down like a dog? The options have never been great.



not even going to comment on lawnseeds hissy

[Mike Sheehy]

A complete nob jockey

I agree, deiseach is a complete knob jockey. All I wanted to know is when is it ok to launch a rocket and kill Israeli civilians. I ask that in the context that I've already repeatedly stated that Israel is a rogue state that murders innocent civilians itself. Seems it is an impossible question for heroes on here to answer. I will answer myself - it is never ok to launch a rocket at civilians and kill them and unfortunately that also applies to Seafood and Dixie's friends in Hama's just as it does to the IDF.

Every sane person would agree that it "should" never be OK to kill. I can't imagine the type of world some people live in when they get to the point where they believe they have been driven to carry out acts which they knows will kill (what we all would agree are) innocents. Its all a matter of perspective how you view the people who through despair feel that is the best option available to them and who has driven them to that point. I believe we are dealing with utter despair in Palestine. Must be hell on earth. What else can the oppressed do other than lie down like a dog? The options have never been great.



not even going to comment on lawnseeds hissy

What about those that kill for purely sectarian reasons ? Where do they fit in your worldview ?

How would you deal with such people ? please respond with practical, real world answers and not some non-committal "I-wont-say-anything-that-ties-me-to-anything-remotely-concrete-that-I-might-have-to-defend" type wishy-washy statements like the one you gave above.

In other words, stop being a moral coward.

[lawnseed]

A complete nob jockey

I agree, deiseach is a complete knob jockey. All I wanted to know is when is it ok to launch a rocket and kill Israeli civilians. I ask that in the context that I've already repeatedly stated that Israel is a rogue state that murders innocent civilians itself. Seems it is an impossible question for heroes on here to answer. I will answer myself - it is never ok to launch a rocket at civilians and kill them and unfortunately that also applies to Seafood and Dixie's friends in Hama's just as it does to the IDF.

Every sane person would agree that it "should" never be OK to kill. I can't imagine the type of world some people live in when they get to the point where they believe they have been driven to carry out acts which they knows will kill (what we all would agree are) innocents. Its all a matter of perspective how you view the people who through despair feel that is the best option available to them and who has driven them to that point. I believe we are dealing with utter despair in Palestine. Must be hell on earth. What else can the oppressed do other than lie down like a dog? The options have never been great.



not even going to comment on lawnseeds hissy

What about those that kill for purely sectarian reasons ? Where do they fit in your worldview ?

How would you deal with such people ? please respond with practical, real world answers and not some non-committal "I-wont-say-anything-that-ties-me-to-anything-remotely-concrete-that-I-might-have-to-defend" type wishy-washy statements like the one you gave above.

In other words, stop being a moral coward.

am I also a homosexual now that I've disagreed with your derisory remarks? there's passionate debate, and there's personal abuse, you decide which activity you have engaged in. take your time..

[theskull1]

A complete nob jockey

I agree, deiseach is a complete knob jockey. All I wanted to know is when is it ok to launch a rocket and kill Israeli civilians. I ask that in the context that I've already repeatedly stated that Israel is a rogue state that murders innocent civilians itself. Seems it is an impossible question for heroes on here to answer. I will answer myself - it is never ok to launch a rocket at civilians and kill them and unfortunately that also applies to Seafood and Dixie's friends in Hama's just as it does to the IDF.

Every sane person would agree that it "should" never be OK to kill. I can't imagine the type of world some people live in when they get to the point where they believe they have been driven to carry out acts which they knows will kill (what we all would agree are) innocents. Its all a matter of perspective how you view the people who through despair feel that is the best option available to them and who has driven them to that point. I believe we are dealing with utter despair in Palestine. Must be hell on earth. What else can the oppressed do other than lie down like a dog? The options have never been great.



not even going to comment on lawnseeds hissy

What about those that kill for purely sectarian reasons ? Where do they fit in your worldview ?

How would you deal with such people ? please respond with practical, real world answers and not some non-committal "I-wont-say-anything-that-ties-me-to-anything-remotely-concrete-that-I-might-have-to-defend" type wishy-washy statements like the one you gave above.

In other words, stop being a moral coward.

Howling away at the moon because you don't get the answer you want. You're doing your argument no good sheehy when you have to resort to ad homenim.

I'm never gonna see the world with your black and white perspective. Not being religious definitely help in that regard. When you believe the source of that sectarianism comes from the malevolent actions of the western powers in the region, you can understand why they might harbour such a despairing hatred for those who've oppressed them to suit their own ends.

[Count 10]

None of us on here are going to make any difference to the situation in ME as a whole, that said I take my hat off to GHD for organising aid to Gaza.....as the saying goes "talk is cheap but it takes money to buy drink".
I have more sympathy for the Palestinians given the occupation/land grab....who here would react differently if their land was taken?
As for anti-Semite ......do you actually know what a Semite is?......maybe this will help

Sem·ite  (smt)
n.
1.  A member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Near East and northern Africa, including the Arabs, Arameans, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Hebrews, and Phoenicians.

2.  A Jew.

3.  Bible A descendant of Shem.

Maybe Mr Sheehy thinks Seafoid hates everyone

[deiseach]

The only one focusing one side is you Seafood, that's clear as day to anyone with eyes. Now why don't you answer Mikes very simple question.

When did you stop beating your wife?

Around the same time you took your c**k out of Seafoods arse.

My question was a serious one. Mike's 'simple' questions are always couched in the language of "when did you stop beating your wife?" So we get "to what extent are they entitled to defend that state"? If you give any answer other than "whatever they like", you're a moral coward or an anti-Semite. Your response to my question, and the subsequent juvenile what-you-say-is-what-you-are responses to theskull1, tells me you are not being serious. It's good to know.

[seafoid]

btw where is give her Dixie ?  He disappeared very quickly once he saw that he might have to actually argue his position.

He is probably talking to adults

Nah, he is just an anti-Semite with a bono-complex. Gobshites like him are dime a dozen, they use the Palestinian cause as a vehicle for self-glorification. You see them on the streets of Dublin, Cork, Galway with their loudspeakers any given weekend. All puffed up on their self-importance. As soon as any real debate breaks out they run a mile. c***ts the lot of them.

mike your a wee bit too close to the bone with the abuse it doesn't add anything to your arguement

I am deliberately being close to the bone. The softly, softly approach never works with extremists like seafoid. You have to force him to engage and argue his position in his own words. Only then can people make up their mind as to what he is really about.

Unfortunately, his own words still don't extend to acknowledging that jews have a right to self defence which further confirms my assertion that he is an anti-Semite.

From the sublime
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRSnT7bxKNs

To the utterly ridiculous . The real Mike Sheehy deserves far better.

Is Jimmy Carter an extremist? Is Mary Robinson an extremist?
And you stay up until half past one marvelling at your rhetorical skills.

You're a caveman. You wouldn't be out of place hounding a vulnerable teenager to suicide.

And Itchy, your faithful Sancho Panza - for 2 people who are so concerned about anti-Semitism you have very cavalier
attitudes to homophobia. Some of the people following this thread may be gay. What is the point of slurring someone who disagrees with you as gay? Is it supposed to be funny ?   
And you still can't explain how Jewish self defence includes the right to run an apartheid system. 

[Mike Sheehy]

Just look at him. Flailing around, inventing stories about alleged slurs, trying every tactic in the book to divert attention. All those cut'n'pastes over the last 10 years and who was behind it all ? A low grade demagogue who can barely string together two coherent sentences in defence of his vicious creed. Its like when the curtain was pulled back in the wizard of Oz !

Nevertheless, we have made progress. In the midst of all the insults and obfuscation he did finally admit that jews do have some basic rights

The Jews deserve a state.

Jews do have the right to defend themselves.

It's shocking that it took 10 years, 58 pages of cut'n'paste and the determined efforts of some posters to draw him out but we finally have something to work with.

So, now that Seafoid accepts that jews have the right to defend themselves he needs elaborate on what that means in practice. Otherwise his words are just weasel words. If missiles are fired into Israel, and it is entitled to defend itself, what form should that defence take ?

[seafoid]

Just look at him. Flailing around, inventing stories about alleged slurs, trying every tactic in the book to divert attention. All those cut'n'pastes over the last 10 years and who was behind it all ? A low grade demagogue who can barely string together two coherent sentences in defence of his vicious creed. Its like when the curtain was pulled back in the wizard of Oz !

Nevertheless, we have made progress. In the midst of all the insults and obfuscation he did finally admit that jews do have some basic rights

The Jews deserve a state.

Jews do have the right to defend themselves.

It's shocking that it took 10 years, 58 pages of cut'n'paste and the determined efforts of some posters to draw him out but we finally have something to work with.

So, now that Seafoid accepts that jews have the right to defend themselves he needs elaborate on what that means in practice. Otherwise his words are just weasel words. If missiles are fired into Israel, and it is entitled to defend itself, what form should that defence take ?

You are pathetic.  The vicious creed of global human rights. What planet are you on ?
BTW your straw man is talking to the Wizard of Oz.
So go on, justify apartheid.  Is it acceptable in the name of "Jewish self defence" ?

[muppet]

Just look at him. Flailing around, inventing stories about alleged slurs, trying every tactic in the book to divert attention. All those cut'n'pastes over the last 10 years and who was behind it all ? A low grade demagogue who can barely string together two coherent sentences in defence of his vicious creed. Its like when the curtain was pulled back in the wizard of Oz !

Nevertheless, we have made progress. In the midst of all the insults and obfuscation he did finally admit that jews do have some basic rights

The Jews deserve a state.

Jews do have the right to defend themselves.

It's shocking that it took 10 years, 58 pages of cut'n'paste and the determined efforts of some posters to draw him out but we finally have something to work with.

So, now that Seafoid accepts that jews have the right to defend themselves he needs elaborate on what that means in practice. Otherwise his words are just weasel words. If missiles are fired into Israel, and it is entitled to defend itself, what form should that defence take ?

It should be legal and mandated by the UN.

[haveaharp]

Just look at him. Flailing around, inventing stories about alleged slurs, trying every tactic in the book to divert attention. All those cut'n'pastes over the last 10 years and who was behind it all ? A low grade demagogue who can barely string together two coherent sentences in defence of his vicious creed. Its like when the curtain was pulled back in the wizard of Oz !

Nevertheless, we have made progress. In the midst of all the insults and obfuscation he did finally admit that jews do have some basic rights

The Jews deserve a state.

Jews do have the right to defend themselves.

It's shocking that it took 10 years, 58 pages of cut'n'paste and the determined efforts of some posters to draw him out but we finally have something to work with.

So, now that Seafoid accepts that jews have the right to defend themselves he needs elaborate on what that means in practice. Otherwise his words are just weasel words. If missiles are fired into Israel, and it is entitled to defend itself, what form should that defence take ?

It should be legal and mandated by the UN.

And be proportionate

[seafoid]

Alice Walker on Zionism

"You can spend months, and years, as I have, pondering this situation. Layer upon layer of lies, misinformation, fear, cowardice and complicity."

[Mike Sheehy]

Just look at him. Flailing around, inventing stories about alleged slurs, trying every tactic in the book to divert attention. All those cut'n'pastes over the last 10 years and who was behind it all ? A low grade demagogue who can barely string together two coherent sentences in defence of his vicious creed. Its like when the curtain was pulled back in the wizard of Oz !

Nevertheless, we have made progress. In the midst of all the insults and obfuscation he did finally admit that jews do have some basic rights

The Jews deserve a state.

Jews do have the right to defend themselves.

It's shocking that it took 10 years, 58 pages of cut'n'paste and the determined efforts of some posters to draw him out but we finally have something to work with.

So, now that Seafoid accepts that jews have the right to defend themselves he needs elaborate on what that means in practice. Otherwise his words are just weasel words. If missiles are fired into Israel, and it is entitled to defend itself, what form should that defence take ?

It should be legal and mandated by the UN.

UN charters provide the right of countries to engage in self-defence. You, and others, think this right does not apply to Israel. That is the fundamental problem with most of the commentary on this thread.