This man has obviously changed his views to suit where he wants to go, the presidency of the GAA. I'm sure his views in the article below are completely at odds with the people in his club and the parents of the children in his school. In an interview with Eamon Mallie, Jarlath Burns states:
Jarlath Burns: Gaa can reach out to Protestants
A former GAA star and one of the sport's leading voices would get rid of the Irish tricolour at games if it helped bring about reconciliation with unionists.
Jarlath Burns also said he would support the ending of the playing of the Irish national anthem if it helped the sport reach out to Protestants.
The former Armagh senior football captain is now chairman of the Rules Committee in GAA headquarters at Croke Park and has been tipped as a potential head of the organisation in the future.
He is also the principal of St Paul's High School in Bessbrook, south Armagh, secretary of Silverbridge Harps GAC and a fluent Irish speaker.
Mr Burns is regarded as one of the most progressive voices in Gaelic sport and republicanism, and was a member of the Eames-Bradley group that produced a controversial report on dealing with the legacy of the Troubles. In July, he praised the outreach work of the Orange Order - and defended the Order after complaints that an Irish tricolour was not flown at the reopening of its Belfast museum.
Last night, he told 'Eamonn Mallie Meets' on Irish TV that the GAA needed to reach out to the unionist community.
And he said that symbols usually associated with the GAA now meant less to him than they once did - and losing them could help build bridges with unionism.
Asked if he would have any reluctance over hauling down the green, white and orange flag flying over a GAA pitch, Mr Burns replied: "Yeah, it wouldn't cost me a thought - and you know this - flags are divisive - do we need to say that any louder?
"If somebody was to propose in the morning that they were going to get rid of them all, it wouldn't bother me at all. It's not one of the core values that I have.
"It's an overtly political thing, it's something which is specific to national borders, it's nothing to do with cultural - if I thought for a moment that suddenly [Ulster Unionist MLA] Tom Elliott would become our greatest fan I would get rid of them surely."
However, he added that "you could do all of those things and there would still be a section of unionism that would still feel repelled by the GAA because of our love of the Irish language for example".
He also accepted that while flags and anthems for him were divisive, getting rid of them "is not going to happen in the GAA".
Ah sure while he's at it, he may as well drop the Gaelic part from it and just call it the A.A. The GAA was founded on nationalism. I know that some people will agree with him, but I don't.
Does he really mean it, or like all good politicians does he just speak in forked tongue? He lauds PJ Caraher and the Orange Order depending on his audience.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 28, 2015, 10:40:05 PM
Does he really mean it, or like all good politicians does he just speak in forked tongue? He lauds PJ Caraher and the Orange Order depending on his audience.
Gobshite
All sporting organisations in the North should drop National flags and anthems.
Neither are necessary to play any sport.
Thread title is misleading. He didn't exactly say that.
Sure we will all sing Danny Boy or is it the Londonderry air, just wave orange flags and all support Armagh, march around Croke park behind the lambeg drum and their pipe band playing the sash, if we do it they will come, let them ...... off.
Quote from: wobbller on September 28, 2015, 10:41:21 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 28, 2015, 10:40:05 PM
Does he really mean it, or like all good politicians does he just speak in forked tongue? He lauds PJ Caraher and the Orange Order depending on his audience.
Gobshite
I'm not saying he is wrong and anyone is entitled to a change of heart.
Quote from: Rossfan on September 28, 2015, 10:43:35 PM
All sporting organisations in the North should drop National flags and anthems.
Neither are necessary to play any sport.
The GAA is a national organisation. Should we in the South drop our flags and anthems? Or maybe we should all sing along to Ireland's Call? That'll get the Unionists on board...
There is over use of the anthem in the GAA . Ditto the national flag .
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 28, 2015, 10:53:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 28, 2015, 10:43:35 PM
All sporting organisations in the North should drop National flags and anthems.
Neither are necessary to play any sport.
The GAA is a national organisation. Should we in the South drop our flags and anthems? Or maybe we should all sing along to Ireland's Call? That'll get the Unionists on board...
Flags and anthems are a tad less controversial in the free state than they are in the north.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 29, 2015, 12:05:54 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 28, 2015, 10:53:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 28, 2015, 10:43:35 PM
All sporting organisations in the North should drop National flags and anthems.
Neither are necessary to play any sport.
The GAA is a national organisation. Should we in the South drop our flags and anthems? Or maybe we should all sing along to Ireland's Call? That'll get the Unionists on board...
Flags and anthems are a tad less controversial in the free state than they are in the north.
The GAA should not introduce partition, that should be a core value in the organisation.
As Mr Burns said though, no matter what the GAA do, there will still be large sections of the unionist community that will still want nothing to do with the association. Joining or following GAA would be like betraying their unionist ideals.
A bit of forward thinking from Jarlath. Anyone who's heard the tinny, scratchy sounding anthem squeaking out of the PA in Ballyshannon in February while the wind is howling and rain soaking you through wouldn't be too upset if the anthem was dropped for a good reason.
Quote from: armaghniac on September 29, 2015, 12:10:03 AM
The GAA should not introduce partition, that should be a core value in the organisation.
They use Euros in the south and Sterling in the north. Is that introducing partition?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 29, 2015, 06:36:59 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 29, 2015, 12:10:03 AM
The GAA should not introduce partition, that should be a core value in the organisation.
They use Euros in the south and Sterling in the north. Is that introducing partition?
Really? What a persuasive argument. If the UK joins the Euro can we have the flag back?
My suggestion is that if a body representative of all parts of Ireland adopts a different flag or anthem then the GAA will adopt this forthwith.
The organisation is Irish. Silly suggestion.
Northern Ireland should stop playing GSTQ at this rate.
A lot of these are taken out of perspective and they only use certain quotes to suit a head line, as someone stated the thread title is not exactly what he said. It won't happen anyway so i wouldn't get my kecks in a twist over it, Unionists would be put out of their estates if they were caught participating in GAA games. Fortunately in the 26 counties this is not the case.
Exactly
Read what the man actually said rather than a twisted version of the truth
Fair play to you, Jarlath. It had to be Nixon who went to China. However, you have to do this because you think it'll be a good idea in itself, not in the expectation that the Prods will suddenly flock to the GAA. I remember Pat Fanning making the point around the time of the opening of Croke Park to forrin games that one of the reasons put forward for removing The Ban was that Gaelic games would be played in Protestant schools. Over forty years later and that still hasn't happened South of the border, let alone in the North. As ashman notes, there is complete overkill in the GAA regarding the flag and the anthem. Let's get rid of the requirement to have them at games because it's a bit naff. If the Prods embrace the GAA as a result, that's a bonus.
Any section of a community who are not attracted to a sport because of the playing of the anthem or flying of the flag of the country where the sport is founded, maybe they are not worth attracting.
Well done Jarlath. More people in GAA need to take a leadership position and aim for inclusiveness.
There is a section of the community in the north (Unionists) who haven't the first clue who or what they are and the fact is they are as Irish as I am. They blindly latch on to "Britishness" like a child holds on to it's dummy. Only building bridges and reaching out will change this absolute ignorance.
Jarlath is simply opening the door to these people and taking away the excuses that pathetic and blinkered Unionist politicians like to hide behind.
Quote from: ck on September 29, 2015, 10:15:44 AM
Well done Jarlath. More people in GAA need to take a leadership position and aim for inclusiveness.
There is a section of the community in the north (Unionists) who haven't the first clue who or what they are and the fact is they are as Irish as I am. They blindly latch on to "Britishness" like a child holds on to it's dummy. Only building bridges and reaching out will change this absolute ignorance.
Jarlath is simply opening the door to these people and taking away the excuses that pathetic and blinkered Unionist politicians like to hide behind.
Latching on to this Britishness will continue no matter how educated they become.
I've heard more than enough rubbish performances of the National Anthem either via dodgy sound systems or singers with connections in poor weather conditions to last a lifetime.
My personal favourite is on those days when its windy and raining and you're standing still getting lashed out of it with the horizontal rain stinging your eyes and some sadist insists in playing the longest slowest version possible and you can pretty much feel the entire crowd reaction of "ah fer feck sakes" Really makes me proud to be Irish that does. Forget the Unionisr Protestants, I wonder how many Irish Catholic folk have been put off attending games after having to put up with those conditions.
That's about 2 minutes out of 80+...
I like the National Anthem at county finals or big games. I don't think it needs to be played before league games up and down the country, but I have no problem at county finals, and provincial and All Ireland finals.
Quote from: BennyCake on September 29, 2015, 10:53:13 AM
Quote from: ck on September 29, 2015, 10:15:44 AM
Well done Jarlath. More people in GAA need to take a leadership position and aim for inclusiveness.
There is a section of the community in the north (Unionists) who haven't the first clue who or what they are and the fact is they are as Irish as I am. They blindly latch on to "Britishness" like a child holds on to it's dummy. Only building bridges and reaching out will change this absolute ignorance.
Jarlath is simply opening the door to these people and taking away the excuses that pathetic and blinkered Unionist politicians like to hide behind.
Latching on to this Britishness will continue no matter how educated they become.
Wouldn't agree. Unionists get no leadership whatsoever. Their politicians have no long term strategy or vision unlike nationalists. The GAA can play it's part by being more inclusive and showing them what real culture and identity is all about
Quote from: ck on September 29, 2015, 12:13:45 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 29, 2015, 10:53:13 AM
Quote from: ck on September 29, 2015, 10:15:44 AM
Well done Jarlath. More people in GAA need to take a leadership position and aim for inclusiveness.
There is a section of the community in the north (Unionists) who haven't the first clue who or what they are and the fact is they are as Irish as I am. They blindly latch on to "Britishness" like a child holds on to it's dummy. Only building bridges and reaching out will change this absolute ignorance.
Jarlath is simply opening the door to these people and taking away the excuses that pathetic and blinkered Unionist politicians like to hide behind.
Latching on to this Britishness will continue no matter how educated they become.
Wouldn't agree. Unionists get no leadership whatsoever. Their politicians have no long term strategy or vision unlike nationalists. The GAA can play it's part by being more inclusive and showing them what real culture and identity is all about
And I suppose Peter Robinson was patted on the back by his electorate for attending a GAA match? Educated or uneducated, many unionists will remain bigoted scum that will never partake in GAA related events.
I say forget about bending over backwards trying to accommodate unionists who will never be interested no matter what changes the GAA made. Focus on our own kids and supporters.
Feck the lot of them.
As pointed out no matter what the GAA does it will never be enough for some.
Shur didn't one OWC poster here ages ago claim Croke Park needed to be renamed as it was named after a terrorist.
But as also pointed out if you are going to play the anthem before a match for Jazes sake can there not a daycent version to play over the tannoy. Have the same version for all grounds.
and stop wee Nothern lassies butchering it
and stop Longford Pipe band playing it.
And wash the feckin tricolours or replace them once a year.
Nothing worse then seeing some limpen dirty rag, torn and faded, flying.
I can just about tolerate national anthems when actual nations are playing against each other.
Get rid of it.
I have to say there is nothing that means as much as when your club is in the County Final and the team turns to the flag for the anthem. I'd say its not required on any other occasion. But as even Jarlath alluded to it wouldn't matter to some what the GAA does.
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 29, 2015, 02:06:32 PM
I have to say there is nothing that means as much as when your club is in the County Final and the team turns to the flag for the anthem. I'd say its not required on any other occasion. But as even Jarlath alluded to it wouldn't matter to some what the GAA does.
I think Jarlath's problem is he knows this will never happen!! :P
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 29, 2015, 02:12:48 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 29, 2015, 02:06:32 PM
I have to say there is nothing that means as much as when your club is in the County Final and the team turns to the flag for the anthem. I'd say its not required on any other occasion. But as even Jarlath alluded to it wouldn't matter to some what the GAA does.
I think Jarlath's problem is he knows this will never happen!! :P
Ouch! sure there is always the Junior final. In a state which denies its Irish citizens any reflection of their nationality these occasions do mean a lot.
The national anthem at any county final means a lot, within the wee 6 or without.
Quote from: Rossfan on September 28, 2015, 10:43:35 PM
All sporting organisations in the North should drop National flags and anthems.
Neither are necessary to play any sport.
Spoken like a true little free stater...
Quote from: Jinxy on September 29, 2015, 01:20:49 PM
I can just about tolerate national anthems when actual nations are playing against each other.
Get rid of it.
I agree with Jinxy on this.
There is no place in sport for politics or chauvanistic nationalism.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 29, 2015, 04:12:37 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on September 29, 2015, 01:20:49 PM
I can just about tolerate national anthems when actual nations are playing against each other.
Get rid of it.
I agree with Jinxy on this.
There is no place in sport for politics or chauvanistic nationalism.
That's more or less 60% of all international sport down the pan so :)
No national anthems at the Olympics or any other sports then.
Sport is war without arms.. discuss.
Quote from: longballin on September 29, 2015, 05:06:19 PM
Sport is war without arms.. discuss.
Hurling and football would be awful without arms
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on September 29, 2015, 01:20:20 PM
Feck the lot of them.
Perfectly sums up the attitude of many people in our midst. No interest in building bridges, no interest in inclusiveness, no interest in persuasion, no interest in reconciliation. Their idea of trying to reunite the country is by waving the tricolour and shouting Tiocfaidh ár la. But bringing northern protestants on board to make it actually happen? Forget it.
Quote from: longballin on September 29, 2015, 05:06:19 PM
Sport is war without arms.. discuss.
Sport and politics have always been linked. It's a known fact.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 29, 2015, 04:12:37 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on September 29, 2015, 01:20:49 PM
I can just about tolerate national anthems when actual nations are playing against each other.
Get rid of it.
I agree with Jinxy on this.
There is no place in sport for politics or chauvanistic nationalism.
The association has always had a political agenda, since day one the assocation made no bones about its political objectives.*
Quote from: BennyCake on September 29, 2015, 12:21:26 PM
Quote from: ck on September 29, 2015, 12:13:45 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 29, 2015, 10:53:13 AM
Quote from: ck on September 29, 2015, 10:15:44 AM
Well done Jarlath. More people in GAA need to take a leadership position and aim for inclusiveness.
There is a section of the community in the north (Unionists) who haven't the first clue who or what they are and the fact is they are as Irish as I am. They blindly latch on to "Britishness" like a child holds on to it's dummy. Only building bridges and reaching out will change this absolute ignorance.
Jarlath is simply opening the door to these people and taking away the excuses that pathetic and blinkered Unionist politicians like to hide behind.
Latching on to this Britishness will continue no matter how educated they become.
Wouldn't agree. Unionists get no leadership whatsoever. Their politicians have no long term strategy or vision unlike nationalists. The GAA can play it's part by being more inclusive and showing them what real culture and identity is all about
And I suppose Peter Robinson was patted on the back by his electorate for attending a GAA match? Educated or uneducated, many unionists will remain bigoted scum that will never partake in GAA related events.
I say forget about bending over backwards trying to accommodate unionists who will never be interested no matter what changes the GAA made. Focus on our own kids and supporters.
Yes that is one option, and it is the one chosen by many over the last 50 years. It's the easy, small minded and convenient option, which will change nothing.
GAA people are better than that!
Quote from: foxcommander on September 29, 2015, 04:57:19 PM
No national anthems at the Olympics or any other sports then.
Yes
I like the National Anthem being played b4 matches however I am with Jarlath on this.
If its removal attracts PULs I'm all for it. But then it probably wouldn't attract them and its irrelevant because it wont happen in the foreseeable future anyway, but its a good debate to be having.
To those that are saying that the GAA its Nationalist blah blah blah... I say this. Nationalism is only a symbol of a representation of common culture / tradition / identity, that has been used to create the concept of modern nation states. Removing a flag or anthem doesn't take away that common culture/tradition/identity, in fact, in the case of the GAA, it releases it from the constraints of nationalism and allows it to expand outside of that.
Bottom line is that two teams in any sport can go out and play a game without any National flags flying over the ground or any National Anthem being played beforehand.
Totally superfluous unnecessary trimmings to the playing of the games.
Pleasantly surprised to see such agreement with Jarlath's proposal. Apart from the potential to make the GAA more appealing to some (others will never embrace it, and we should spend little time trying to accommodate them) the flag and anthem add little as it is.
At the same time lads I wouldnt say it adds nothing. Its adds occasion, and reverence to our identity.
However I would be willing to give it up/tone it down to attract others.
Surely the main objection by unionists to GAA is the naming of grounds and tournaments after "terrorists"
Quote from: T Fearon on September 29, 2015, 06:30:41 PM
Surely the main objection by unionists to GAA is the naming of grounds and tournaments after "terrorists"
That's one they will have to suck up Im afraid IMO, as it done and dusted
I used to live on Cromwell St in Belfast. Inspite of this, my main objection to living there was that it was a dump!
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 29, 2015, 06:16:53 PM
At the same time lads I wouldnt say it adds nothing. Its adds occasion, and reverence to our identity.
You must be hearing different renditions of the anthem to me. Whatever about big finals, it adds nothing to a league game in February.
Of course there are hardliners in unionism who'll never attend a GAA match no matter what. But there are plenty of moderates who will. The fact that protestant parents let their children partake in the cross-community Cu Chullain hurling teams should be proof of that. Do we give up on the moderates because extremists exist?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 29, 2015, 05:25:39 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on September 29, 2015, 01:20:20 PM
Feck the lot of them.
Perfectly sums up the attitude of many people in our midst. No interest in building bridges, no interest in inclusiveness, no interest in persuasion, no interest in reconciliation. Their idea of trying to reunite the country is by waving the tricolour and shouting Tiocfaidh ár la. But bringing northern protestants on board to make it actually happen? Forget it.
The Tricolour is green
and orange. The GAA is open to everyone, but it is a single organisation, we don't want further division and to have a Protestant GAA and Catholic GAA and Muslim GAA and whatever.
The real thing the GAA needs to change is the attitude among some of its members that the flag or the use of Irish is designed to exclude. There is an attitude, evident in some posts here, that an organisation being Irish in Ireland is somehow provocative. The is an attitude, that also shows up here, that the GAA should see itself in ghetto and not expect everyone to be involved.
The anthem could be confined to finals etc where there is band, without any real loss. Scratchy recordings or county and western version or teenage girls who can't be heard add little enough to the event.
But really if there is one anthem anywhere then anti GAA people would object anyhow. As deiseach noted above is there a single Protestant school anywhere in the country that promotes the GAA, 130 years after the founding of GAA? Prejudice runs deep.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 29, 2015, 09:01:56 PM
Of course there are hardliners in unionism who'll never attend a GAA match no matter what. But there are plenty of moderates who will. The fact that protestant parents let their children partake in the cross-community Cu Chullain hurling teams should be proof of that. Do we give up on the moderates because extremists exist?
NI has so many fruitcakes though
I knew the PC brigade would be on to this article - falling over themselves to try accommodate the likes of Tom Elliott.
If anything why doesn't the rugby team remove the anthem and the flag. Can't really claim to be Irish playing a British sport. And as for their cringeworthy fans belting out the national anthem...
I would get rid of the anthem before matches that aren't finals, it's not really necessary in post-80's Ireland. Not for the prods sake like, just because it's a bit naff. Someone said that if you can't stand for the national anthem of where that sport was created before a match then you shouldn't be respected. If that's the case I'll look out for "God Save the Queen" before the next France/Ireland or Wales/Scotland match. Either that or watch several thousands Yanks pause for Flower of Scotland during the next US Masters. Whomever made that point is a tit.
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 29, 2015, 08:35:17 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 29, 2015, 06:16:53 PM
At the same time lads I wouldnt say it adds nothing. Its adds occasion, and reverence to our identity.
You must be hearing different renditions of the anthem to me. Whatever about big finals, it adds nothing to a league game in February.
Since this is completely subjective we are both right
I dont mind the "Wailing banshees" version of the league, they are mostly talented singers and pleasant to listen to. And the only time I cant hear them is on the TV. No problem at the grounds
What irks me more is the tempo of the Amhran na bhfiann is completely off by the GAA marching bands. Its a march FFS, try marching to it at Artane Boy Band speed and you'll have bother. Garda/army(?) Band at the rugby Internationals play it proper
Would an acceptance of Jarlaths proposal be an abandonment of the core priniciples of the G.A.A. While the association is avowedly non sectarian and non party political it is founded on clear nationalist principles ie. the support for a 32 Co.soveriegn irish republic the promotion of irish culture , games ,language,dance etc. and the fostering of a national irish conscienceness. These principles were clearly stated by the founders in 1884 and have been reiterated in every official guide published since.
Quote from: armaghniac on September 29, 2015, 09:08:40 PM
But really if there is one anthem anywhere then anti GAA people would object anyhow. As deiseach noted above is there a single Protestant school anywhere in the country that promotes the GAA, 130 years after the founding of GAA? Prejudice runs deep.
That point's a load of bollix. By the same token, St Micks Enniskillen, St Pat's Dungannon, CBS Omagh or St Colman's are bigotted c***ts because they promote and favour gaelic football over rugby and soccer. The Prod's school in the south still favour their old sports over GAA because that's where their tradition lies not because they think Croker is a Fenian cesspit. I went to one of the schools named above and played on a rugby team there. We were pariahs in the eyes of the established GAA-heads though.
Quote from: Pangurban on September 29, 2015, 09:51:11 PM
Would an acceptance of Jarlaths proposal be an abandonment of the core priniciples of the G.A.A. While the association is avowedly non sectarian and non party political it is founded on clear nationalist principles ie. the support for a 32 Co.soveriegn irish republic the promotion of irish culture , games ,language,dance etc. and the fostering of a national irish conscienceness. These principles were clearly stated by the founders in 1884 and have been reiterated in every official guide published since.
Yes - fewer around with principles these days though as is evident.
Quote from: hardstation on September 29, 2015, 09:52:26 PM
Quote from: Pangurban on September 29, 2015, 09:51:11 PM
Would an acceptance of Jarlaths proposal be an abandonment of the core priniciples of the G.A.A. While the association is avowedly non sectarian and non party political it is founded on clear nationalist principles ie. the support for a 32 Co.soveriegn irish republic the promotion of irish culture , games ,language,dance etc. and the fostering of a national irish conscienceness. These principles were clearly stated by the founders in 1884 and have been reiterated in every official guide published since.
No.
+1.
GAA should stick to promoting their games - as they mainly do no matter what sort of blather is at the start of an T.O.
GAA nationalist? Dining with the Queen,Sitting on the North's Policing Board,Receiving loads of British grant aid in the North? Don't make me laugh ;D
Quote from: T Fearon on September 29, 2015, 10:07:07 PM
GAA nationalist? Dining with the Queen,Sitting on the North's Policing Board,Receiving loads of British grant aid in the North? Don't make me laugh ;D
Shinners do it as well. The GAA is 32 county and it means a lot . Sure there would be no nordies on here if it were 26 county.
I completely agree with Jarlath. Nobody on here, including myself, gives a rats ass about including hard line unionists. They are never going to attend our games anyway. As a nordy I know many Protestants who love sport and have a genuine interest in our games. They feel awkward attending any matches because of the anthem and the flying of the tricolour. No place for it in my opinion. You should be able to go to watch a sport without feeling uncomfortable.
Quote from: Pangurban on September 29, 2015, 09:51:11 PM
Would an acceptance of Jarlaths proposal be an abandonment of the core priniciples of the G.A.A. While the association is avowedly non sectarian and non party political it is founded on clear nationalist principles ie. the support for a 32 Co.soveriegn irish republic the promotion of irish culture , games ,language,dance etc. and the fostering of a national irish conscienceness. These principles were clearly stated by the founders in 1884 and have been reiterated in every official guide published since.
Does the GAA acutally have this as a core principle ? I dont think so.
If it did it could not be non-political
Quote from: Pangurban on September 29, 2015, 09:51:11 PM
Would an acceptance of Jarlaths proposal be an abandonment of the core priniciples of the G.A.A. While the association is avowedly non sectarian and non party political it is founded on clear nationalist principles ie. the support for a 32 Co.soveriegn irish republic the promotion of irish culture , games ,language,dance etc. and the fostering of a national irish conscienceness. These principles were clearly stated by the founders in 1884 and have been reiterated in every official guide published since.
Those "core principles" are only still there for historic reasons and I would say there is only a tiny minority of members for whom "support for a 32 Co.soveriegn irish republic the promotion of irish culture , games ,language,dance etc. and the fostering of a national irish conscienceness." represents their idea of what the GAA is about nowadays.
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 29, 2015, 10:31:14 PM
Quote from: Pangurban on September 29, 2015, 09:51:11 PM
Would an acceptance of Jarlaths proposal be an abandonment of the core priniciples of the G.A.A. While the association is avowedly non sectarian and non party political it is founded on clear nationalist principles ie. the support for a 32 Co.soveriegn irish republic the promotion of irish culture , games ,language,dance etc. and the fostering of a national irish conscienceness. These principles were clearly stated by the founders in 1884 and have been reiterated in every official guide published since.
Does the GAA acutally have this as a core principle ? I dont think so.
If it did it could not be non-political
The GAA is a community organisation, people gather in the parish, the county and the country to work together. It is non party political, but supports the general interests of the country and its culture and language. People whose aim is to have the country as a colony of another country have never quite fitted into this.
Quote from: foxcommander on September 29, 2015, 09:18:07 PM
I knew the PC brigade would be on to this article - falling over themselves to try accommodate the likes of Tom Elliott.
If anything why doesn't the rugby team remove the anthem and the flag. Can't really claim to be Irish playing a British sport. And as for their cringeworthy fans belting out the national anthem...
I stopped reading at "PC brigade."
Here's the best part. The people who would prefer to keep the anthem and flag as it is are the same people who most fervently want a united Ireland.
To achieve a united Ireland you need to convince a majority in the north to go for it.
To convince a majority in the north to go for it means getting a critical mass of moderate northern Protestants on board.
Getting a critical mass of moderate northern Protestants on board means making them more comfortable with Irish culture do it doesn't feel foreign or hostile to them.
Getting them more comfortable with Irish culture means making it more accessible to them through gestures like the one Jarlath proposes.
So the ones going on about how we should stick to the status quo are advocating a course that makes Irish unity less likely and more difficult to achieve.
Quote from: armaghniac on September 29, 2015, 11:08:41 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 29, 2015, 10:31:14 PM
Quote from: Pangurban on September 29, 2015, 09:51:11 PM
Would an acceptance of Jarlaths proposal be an abandonment of the core priniciples of the G.A.A. While the association is avowedly non sectarian and non party political it is founded on clear nationalist principles ie. the support for a 32 Co.soveriegn irish republic the promotion of irish culture , games ,language,dance etc. and the fostering of a national irish conscienceness. These principles were clearly stated by the founders in 1884 and have been reiterated in every official guide published since.
Does the GAA acutally have this as a core principle ? I dont think so.
If it did it could not be non-political
The GAA is a community organisation, people gather in the parish, the county and the country to work together. It is non party political, but supports the general interests of the country and its culture and language. People whose aim is to have the country as a colony of another country have never quite fitted into this.
I agree with most of what your saying but your nationalist overtones appear to cloud you judgement towards the end
Culture, tradition and community come first. Where they are common or similar, Nationalism (in Europe at least) groups them under an umbrella with the aim of creating a sovereign state. And often wields this commonality for rule and power.
I see the GAA as primarily a sporting organisation that promotes the traditional games but secondary as a cultural one promoting other traditions such as language and music. It is also an umbrella organisation like sovereign nationalism but the key difference is in its actual aim is to promote the traditions not to wield them as a tool for political power.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 30, 2015, 12:04:29 AM
To achieve a united Ireland you need to convince a majority in the north to go for it.
To convince a majority in the north to go for it you need to sort out the NI economy.
QuoteGetting a critical mass of moderate northern Protestants on board means making them more comfortable with Irish culture do it doesn't feel foreign or hostile to them.
Getting them more comfortable with Irish culture means making it more accessible to them through gestures like the one Jarlath proposes.
Quote from: omaghjoeI see the GAA as primarily a sporting organisation that promotes the traditional games but secondary as a cultural one promoting other traditions such as language and music. It is also an umbrella organisation like sovereign nationalism but the key difference is in its actual aim is to promote the traditions not to wield them as a tool for political power.
Fair enough. But the GAA is not making a symbol of political power, it is using collective Irish symbols to associate with the Irish people in the same way as the St Patrick's day parade in New York.
Gesture is the appropriate word. You are not changing the culture you are merely concealing the Irish nature of it, which is pretty pointless.
So the ones going on about how we should stick to the status quo are advocating a course that makes Irish unity less likely and more difficult to achieve.
[/quote]
Quote from: armaghniac on September 30, 2015, 12:14:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 30, 2015, 12:04:29 AM
To achieve a united Ireland you need to convince a majority in the north to go for it.
To convince a majority in the north to go for it you need to sort out the NI economy.
QuoteGetting a critical mass of moderate northern Protestants on board means making them more comfortable with Irish culture do it doesn't feel foreign or hostile to them.
Getting them more comfortable with Irish culture means making it more accessible to them through gestures like the one Jarlath proposes.
Quote from: omaghjoeI see the GAA as primarily a sporting organisation that promotes the traditional games but secondary as a cultural one promoting other traditions such as language and music. It is also an umbrella organisation like sovereign nationalism but the key difference is in its actual aim is to promote the traditions not to wield them as a tool for political power.
Fair enough. But the GAA is not making a symbol of political power, it is using collective Irish symbols to associate with the Irish people in the same way as the St Patrick's day parade in New York.
Gesture is the appropriate word. You are not changing the culture you are merely concealing the Irish nature of it, which is pretty pointless.
So the ones going on about how we should stick to the status quo are advocating a course that makes Irish unity less likely and more difficult to achieve.
[/quote]
A united Ireland is irrelevant to this discussion, this is not about a superficial thing like a flag that is supposed to bond us. It about the actual thing that bonds us...culture and tradition
There is no need to use collective symbols associated with sovereign nationalism. The GAA uses the symbols of Irish Nationalism as they have common roots, but there is no reason to do so and removing them does not take away any Irishness from the GAA. In fact it frees up the organisation to be the true guardian of the thing that bonds us, our culture and tradition.
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 30, 2015, 12:31:38 AM
There is no need to use collective symbols associated with sovereign nationalism. The GAA uses the symbols of Irish Nationalism as they have common roots, but there is no reason to do so and removing them does not take away any Irishness from the GAA. In fact it frees up the organisation to be the true guardian of the thing that bonds us, our culture and tradition.
There is no reason not to do so if Irish people like to be represented by such things. We need to reclaim the tricolour from SF rallies and braindead teenagers tacking flags to poles and not pander to people with a divisive political agenda.
Should the real question be......... Can we not get the feckin national anthem removed at the end of discos in the free state????
I'll tell ye a wee story anyways along the same lines as I can't get to sleep.....
One time many years ago.......for my home club's first ever year playing senior football I decided to do a program for each home game. What I decided to do was to look at the visiting team's club name and tell people a bit of history about them. It so happens we had Eoghain Rua, Wolfe Tones, Watty Graham's and Robert Emmetts visiting us. Republican people from our history. Needless to say, the back of each program was an Irish republican history so to speak every two weeks.
Anyway..... I got a message from the secretary of the club stating 'there is too much Republican propaganda being placed in these publications'. I did not reply. I asked around the club and it was general consensus that I have. I stayed strong nonetheless.
Anyway.... It turns out all the lads were having the craic with me
And anyway again......... Although this was a bit of banter, I know for a fact that this probably was indeed the consensus but was not put through the proper channels.
Anyway, moral of the story is....... Burns is doing this for his own gain.
Quote from: armaghniac on September 30, 2015, 01:24:00 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 30, 2015, 12:31:38 AM
There is no need to use collective symbols associated with sovereign nationalism. The GAA uses the symbols of Irish Nationalism as they have common roots, but there is no reason to do so and removing them does not take away any Irishness from the GAA. In fact it frees up the organisation to be the true guardian of the thing that bonds us, our culture and tradition.
There is no reason not to do so if Irish people like to be represented by such things. We need to reclaim the tricolour from SF rallies and braindead teenagers tacking flags to poles and not pander to people with a divisive political agenda.
Well since Irish people do and the GAA is a democratic organisation and is made up of people who associate with the sovereign Irish nationalism then that is the reason that it is unlikely to be changed.
But I thought we are having this discussion based on the actual merits of keeping/ toning down the nationalistic symbols in the GAA, rather than what people want? Most people have tribal attitudes anyway so they undoubtly will likely want to keep it. That's fair enuff Im happy both ways, however it would be a good way to shake off the constraining shackles of nationalism and protect and promote our culture without having a nationalist consideration every turn around.
When I think of the other great Irish cultural organisation, Comhalts, it doesnt wear sovereign nationalism on its sleeve the same way as the GAA does, but I dont think of it as less Irish.
"Reclaiming the tricolour" is a different discussion altogether.
Quote from: theticklemister on September 30, 2015, 01:30:35 AM
Should the real question be......... Can we not get the feckin national anthem removed at the end of discos in the free state????
I'll tell ye a wee story anyways along the same lines as I can't get to sleep.....
One time many years ago.......for my home club's first ever year playing senior football I decided to do a program for each home game. What I decided to do was to look at the visiting team's club name and tell people a bit of history about them. It so happens we had Eoghain Rua, Wolfe Tones, Watty Graham's and Robert Emmetts visiting us. Republican people from our history. Needless to say, the back of each program was an Irish republican history so to speak every two weeks.
Anyway..... I got a message from the secretary of the club stating 'there is too much Republican propaganda being placed in these publications'. I did not reply. I asked around the club and it was general consensus that I have. I stayed strong nonetheless.
Anyway.... It turns out all the lads were having the craic with me
And anyway again......... Although this was a bit of banter, I know for a fact that this probably was indeed the consensus but was not put through the proper channels.
Anyway, moral of the story is....... Burns is doing this for his own gain.
Just googled Watty Graham there often wondered who he was. Did you do this?
http://www.wattygrahamsgac.com/HistoryWatty.aspx
Couple of points of note:
Would he have been in the same band of men as Roddy McCorley?
1500 lashes! :o
Beech trees are great big trees but they have shallow ole roots!
No I didn't do that. Copy and pasted it but no doubt!!
Quote from: foxcommander on September 29, 2015, 09:18:07 PM
I knew the PC brigade would be on to this article - falling over themselves to try accommodate the likes of Tom Elliott.
If anything why doesn't the rugby team remove the anthem and the flag. Can't really claim to be Irish playing a British sport. And as for their cringeworthy fans belting out the national anthem...
This post has so many levels of retard I don't know where to start...
So do people feel more Irish when the anthem is played or what?
Aside from the fact that we like to butcher it so much through dodgy sound systems and tone def scor winners, does anyone actually look forward to it at the start of a match? I know I don't
And the tricolour, is there really any need for it? Like I'm not fussed either way but it would hardly be a travesty if it went? Club, county and provincial colours far more relevant.
Quote from: general_lee on September 30, 2015, 07:40:04 AM
So do people feel more Irish when the anthem is played or what?
Aside from the fact that we like to butcher it so much through dodgy sound systems and tone def scor winners, does anyone actually look forward to it at the start of a match? I know I don't
And the tricolour, is there really any need for it? Like I'm not fussed either way but it would hardly be a travesty if it went? Club, county and provincial colours far more relevant.
I enjoy it at a full house in croker or a t a big championship game, it adds to the atmosphere and sense of occasion.
The version of the national anthem that they play in Pairc Tailteann makes me hate my country and everyone in it.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 29, 2015, 04:12:37 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on September 29, 2015, 01:20:49 PM
I can just about tolerate national anthems when actual nations are playing against each other.
Get rid of it.
I agree with Jinxy on this.
There is no place in sport for politics or chauvanistic nationalism.
Easy to say when you live in a state that recognises your ethnicity. Try living in a state which since its foundation has only recognised the ethnicity of what is now about 49% of its people. A state that oppressed everything remotely Irish and you might understand the importance of the GAA and events like county finals which recognise that Irishness. The GAA is a culturally Irish organisation which has given a sense of belonging to people like me who grew up in a time when you dare not show any expression of Irishness.
Eamonnca1
If we removed the flag and anthem from our games, unionist would accuse the GAA of trying to lure unionists toward a United Ireland. I think Jarlath know that himself
There's no winning with them. They appear to just want to get us to jump through hoops (if they could) for the sheer enjoyment of it all.
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on September 30, 2015, 08:54:58 AM
Quote from: general_lee on September 30, 2015, 07:40:04 AM
So do people feel more Irish when the anthem is played or what?
Aside from the fact that we like to butcher it so much through dodgy sound systems and tone def scor winners, does anyone actually look forward to it at the start of a match? I know I don't
And the tricolour, is there really any need for it? Like I'm not fussed either way but it would hardly be a travesty if it went? Club, county and provincial colours far more relevant.
I enjoy it at a full house in croker or a t a big championship game, it adds to the atmosphere and sense of occasion.
I tell a lie, the pipe band for the Munster final is something else
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 30, 2015, 09:18:55 AM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 29, 2015, 04:12:37 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on September 29, 2015, 01:20:49 PM
I can just about tolerate national anthems when actual nations are playing against each other.
Get rid of it.
I agree with Jinxy on this.
There is no place in sport for politics or chauvanistic nationalism.
Easy to say when you live in a state that recognises your ethnicity. Try living in a state which since its foundation has only recognised the ethnicity of what is now about 49% of its people. A state that oppressed everything remotely Irish and you might understand the importance of the GAA and events like county finals which recognise that Irishness. The GAA is a culturally Irish organisation which has given a sense of belonging to people like me who grew up in a time when you dare not show any expression of Irishness.
Totally agree but if you think that the flag/anthem define your identity rather than the GAA itself as institution and all that it promotes then you're just a mirror image of a loyalist. This debate is similar to the fleggers at city hall. There is much more to expressing your culture than facing the friary road mumbling A. na bhF
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 30, 2015, 12:04:29 AM
Here's the best part. The people who would prefer to keep the anthem and flag as it is are the same people who most fervently want a united Ireland.
To achieve a united Ireland you need to convince a majority in the north to go for it.
To convince a majority in the north to go for it means getting a critical mass of moderate northern Protestants on board.
Getting a critical mass of moderate northern Protestants on board means making them more comfortable with Irish culture do it doesn't feel foreign or hostile to them.
Getting them more comfortable with Irish culture means making it more accessible to them through gestures like the one Jarlath proposes.
So the ones going on about how we should stick to the status quo are advocating a course that makes Irish unity less likely and more difficult to achieve.
Actually whilst I would prefer a UI, I wouldn't say it was a fervent wish. I'd happily settle for recognition in this state of my nationality and identity as been equal to our British neighbours until such times as they feel confident enough to take a step into a UI...the principle of consent.
QuoteWe need to reclaim the tricolour from SF rallies
I'm sure SF would gladly let other Nationalist parties have the tricolour if they were willing to take it.
Quote from: Jinxy on September 30, 2015, 09:11:13 AM
The version of the national anthem that they play in Pairc Tailteann makes me hate my country county and everyone in it.
Fixed that for you
Good article by Seán Moran on this topic in today's Irish Times, Sport.
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 10:29:38 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on September 30, 2015, 09:11:13 AM
The version of the national anthem that they play in Pairc Tailteann makes me hate my country county and everyone in it.
Fixed that for you
Sure everyone hates Meath anyway. Oh wait, that's Dublin I'm thinking of.
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 30, 2015, 09:39:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 30, 2015, 12:04:29 AM
Here's the best part. The people who would prefer to keep the anthem and flag as it is are the same people who most fervently want a united Ireland.
To achieve a united Ireland you need to convince a majority in the north to go for it.
To convince a majority in the north to go for it means getting a critical mass of moderate northern Protestants on board.
Getting a critical mass of moderate northern Protestants on board means making them more comfortable with Irish culture do it doesn't feel foreign or hostile to them.
Getting them more comfortable with Irish culture means making it more accessible to them through gestures like the one Jarlath proposes.
So the ones going on about how we should stick to the status quo are advocating a course that makes Irish unity less likely and more difficult to achieve.
Actually whilst I would prefer a UI, I wouldn't say it was a fervent wish. I'd happily settle for recognition in this state of my nationality and identity as been equal to our British neighbours until such times as they feel confident enough to take a step into a UI...the principle of consent.
Unionists take a step towards a UI? What are you smoking?
If unionists were told they'd be better off in terms of education, healthcare, employment, transport, social welfare, less taxes etc in a United ireland, or be part of UK and have none of those, they'd pick the latter. All they care about is being ruled by Britain, and are able to wave a union flag and declare their Britishness (whatever that is). That's all that matters to them. Same with their politicans. Kow-towing to Downing Street like a bunch of spineless lickspittles, in the fear that Britain will abandon them here with these Roman Catholics.
Them voluntarily opting to join a UI is totally fantasy.
Quote from: general_lee on September 30, 2015, 09:34:56 AM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on September 30, 2015, 08:54:58 AM
Quote from: general_lee on September 30, 2015, 07:40:04 AM
So do people feel more Irish when the anthem is played or what?
Aside from the fact that we like to butcher it so much through dodgy sound systems and tone def scor winners, does anyone actually look forward to it at the start of a match? I know I don't
And the tricolour, is there really any need for it? Like I'm not fussed either way but it would hardly be a travesty if it went? Club, county and provincial colours far more relevant.
I enjoy it at a full house in croker or a t a big championship game, it adds to the atmosphere and sense of occasion.
I tell a lie, the pipe band for the Munster final is something else
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 30, 2015, 09:18:55 AM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 29, 2015, 04:12:37 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on September 29, 2015, 01:20:49 PM
I can just about tolerate national anthems when actual nations are playing against each other.
Get rid of it.
I agree with Jinxy on this.
There is no place in sport for politics or chauvanistic nationalism.
Easy to say when you live in a state that recognises your ethnicity. Try living in a state which since its foundation has only recognised the ethnicity of what is now about 49% of its people. A state that oppressed everything remotely Irish and you might understand the importance of the GAA and events like county finals which recognise that Irishness. The GAA is a culturally Irish organisation which has given a sense of belonging to people like me who grew up in a time when you dare not show any expression of Irishness.
Totally agree
Keep contradicting yourself.
You're the same sort of plastic oirish who cries nationalism after a few beers listening to U2 and singing fields of athenry while on holiday in Tenerife
Quote from: winghalfun on September 30, 2015, 10:01:14 AM
QuoteWe need to reclaim the tricolour from SF rallies
I'm sure SF would gladly let other Nationalist parties have the tricolour if they were willing to take it.
Fianna Fail dust theirs off around election times.
Is the flag and anthem really that important to you foxie?? I mean forget everything else the GAA stands for as an institution, suddenly we are selling our souls at sheer thought of change ::)
Quote from: general_lee on September 30, 2015, 02:57:43 PM
Is the flag and anthem really that important to you foxie?? I mean forget everything else the GAA stands for as an institution, suddenly we are selling our souls at sheer thought of change ::)
Already sold our souls changing rule 21.
I personally couldn't care less about "reaching out". It's an open door for anyone who wants to play the game. You can kid yourselves that removing the flags and anthem is going to change the perception about the sport.
Quote from: theskull1 on September 30, 2015, 09:25:59 AM
Eamonnca1
If we removed the flag and anthem from our games, unionist would accuse the GAA of trying to lure unionists toward a United Ireland. I think Jarlath know that himself
There's no winning with them. They appear to just want to get us to jump through hoops (if they could) for the sheer enjoyment of it all.
And I say again that there are nuances within unionism. Some of them will display the attitude that you describe, others will be appreciative and will feel more inclined to get involved with the GAA.
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 03:24:28 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 30, 2015, 02:57:43 PM
Is the flag and anthem really that important to you foxie?? I mean forget everything else the GAA stands for as an institution, suddenly we are selling our souls at sheer thought of change ::)
Already sold our souls changing rule 21.
I personally couldn't care less about "reaching out". It's an open door for anyone who wants to play the game. You can kid yourselves that removing the flags and anthem is going to change the perception about the sport.
So a collection of words, which I dare say you and many others don't even know the meaning of, is
that important? Even if it doesn't encourage more unionists it's a played out novelty that has worn off. Maybe for All Ireland finals but every match - no thanks. It's ironic that if you actually supported the principles behind the flag you'd be open to removing it from GAA stadia in the interests of reconciliation.
Quote from: general_lee on September 30, 2015, 05:15:24 PM
Even if it doesn't encourage more unionists it's a played out novelty that has worn off.
Has it now? That's your throwaway attitude towards it. Means nothing to you obviously.
The people who wave the tricolour the most always seem to be the people who understand its meaning the least. Particularly the orange part.
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 05:45:27 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 30, 2015, 05:15:24 PM
Even if it doesn't encourage more unionists it's a played out novelty that has worn off.
Has it now? That's your throwaway attitude towards it. Means nothing to you obviously.
It's an opinion shared by most of the contributors on this thread, all of whom are here as they have a shared interest in GAA.
Quote from: Pangurban on September 29, 2015, 09:51:11 PM
Would an acceptance of Jarlaths proposal be an abandonment of the core priniciples of the G.A.A. While the association is avowedly non sectarian and non party political it is founded on clear nationalist principles ie. the support for a 32 Co.soveriegn irish republic the promotion of irish culture , games ,language,dance etc. and the fostering of a national irish conscienceness. These principles were clearly stated by the founders in 1884 and have been reiterated in every official guide published since.
The Basic Aim of the GAA:
The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes.I read it that the National Identity is strengthened through the games themselves, not through a flag or an anthem.
There's also the not insignificant point that the GAA was established decades before the anthem was written and long before the tricolour was first recognised as the national flag.
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 07:59:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 05:45:27 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 30, 2015, 05:15:24 PM
Even if it doesn't encourage more unionists it's a played out novelty that has worn off.
Has it now? That's your throwaway attitude towards it. Means nothing to you obviously.
It's an opinion shared by most of the contributors on this thread, all of whom are here as they have a shared interest in GAA.
Shouldn't the national anthem just be banned altogether this being the case? Is that what you're saying?
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 09:15:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 07:59:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 05:45:27 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 30, 2015, 05:15:24 PM
Even if it doesn't encourage more unionists it's a played out novelty that has worn off.
Has it now? That's your throwaway attitude towards it. Means nothing to you obviously.
It's an opinion shared by most of the contributors on this thread, all of whom are here as they have a shared interest in GAA.
Shouldn't the national anthem just be banned altogether this being the case? Is that what you're saying?
No, it isn't. Are you reading words that aren't there?
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 09:26:36 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 09:15:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 07:59:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 05:45:27 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 30, 2015, 05:15:24 PM
Even if it doesn't encourage more unionists it's a played out novelty that has worn off.
Has it now? That's your throwaway attitude towards it. Means nothing to you obviously.
It's an opinion shared by most of the contributors on this thread, all of whom are here as they have a shared interest in GAA.
Shouldn't the national anthem just be banned altogether this being the case? Is that what you're saying?
No, it isn't. Are you reading words that aren't there?
Should it be removed from other sporting occasions too? What about that rugby crowd using it?
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 09:28:41 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 09:26:36 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 09:15:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 07:59:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 05:45:27 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 30, 2015, 05:15:24 PM
Even if it doesn't encourage more unionists it's a played out novelty that has worn off.
Has it now? That's your throwaway attitude towards it. Means nothing to you obviously.
It's an opinion shared by most of the contributors on this thread, all of whom are here as they have a shared interest in GAA.
Shouldn't the national anthem just be banned altogether this being the case? Is that what you're saying?
No, it isn't. Are you reading words that aren't there?
Should it be removed from other sporting occasions too? What about that rugby crowd using it?
I'm not too concerned with what other sports or sporting occasions do.
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 09:49:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 09:28:41 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 09:26:36 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 09:15:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 07:59:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 05:45:27 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 30, 2015, 05:15:24 PM
Even if it doesn't encourage more unionists it's a played out novelty that has worn off.
Has it now? That's your throwaway attitude towards it. Means nothing to you obviously.
It's an opinion shared by most of the contributors on this thread, all of whom are here as they have a shared interest in GAA.
Shouldn't the national anthem just be banned altogether this being the case? Is that what you're saying?
No, it isn't. Are you reading words that aren't there?
Should it be removed from other sporting occasions too? What about that rugby crowd using it?
I'm not too concerned with what other sports or sporting occasions do.
Surely the president or taoiseach should refrain from using the anthem at their ceremonies too if it's deemed divisive? Or have you no opinion on that either?
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 10:04:55 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 09:49:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 09:28:41 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 09:26:36 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 09:15:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 07:59:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 05:45:27 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 30, 2015, 05:15:24 PM
Even if it doesn't encourage more unionists it's a played out novelty that has worn off.
Has it now? That's your throwaway attitude towards it. Means nothing to you obviously.
It's an opinion shared by most of the contributors on this thread, all of whom are here as they have a shared interest in GAA.
Shouldn't the national anthem just be banned altogether this being the case? Is that what you're saying?
No, it isn't. Are you reading words that aren't there?
Should it be removed from other sporting occasions too? What about that rugby crowd using it?
I'm not too concerned with what other sports or sporting occasions do.
Surely the president or taoiseach should refrain from using the anthem at their ceremonies too if it's deemed divisive? Or have you no opinion on that either?
Now you're going way off topic just to try and pick an argument. I have no issue with the Taoiseach or President using the anthem, given that such scenarios are in the realm of politics and state functions, where anthems and flags are relevant. But as i've said, that's way off topic. This discussion is about the use of flags and anthems in the context of the GAA.
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 05:45:27 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 30, 2015, 05:15:24 PM
Even if it doesn't encourage more unionists it's a played out novelty that has worn off.
Has it now? That's your throwaway attitude towards it. Means nothing to you obviously.
It would mean a hell of a lot more to me if the state that uses it had shown any sort of courage or back bone to protect those citizens it conveniently forgot about and continues to forget about in the north. Taking into consideration the lyrics I find it hypocritical to say the least - but that's an argument for another day. I show the anthem due respect in any case whenever it is played.
Long story short I wouldn't care a jot if the anthem was removed from most games, if not all. It's not really that important in the grand scheme of things.
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 10:14:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 10:04:55 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 09:49:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 09:28:41 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 09:26:36 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 09:15:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 07:59:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 05:45:27 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 30, 2015, 05:15:24 PM
Even if it doesn't encourage more unionists it's a played out novelty that has worn off.
Has it now? That's your throwaway attitude towards it. Means nothing to you obviously.
It's an opinion shared by most of the contributors on this thread, all of whom are here as they have a shared interest in GAA.
Shouldn't the national anthem just be banned altogether this being the case? Is that what you're saying?
No, it isn't. Are you reading words that aren't there?
Should it be removed from other sporting occasions too? What about that rugby crowd using it?
I'm not too concerned with what other sports or sporting occasions do.
Surely the president or taoiseach should refrain from using the anthem at their ceremonies too if it's deemed divisive? Or have you no opinion on that either?
Now you're going way off topic just to try and pick an argument. I have no issue with the Taoiseach or President using the anthem, given that such scenarios are in the realm of politics and state functions, where anthems and flags are relevant. But as i've said, that's way off topic. This discussion is about the use of flags and anthems in the context of the GAA.
I fail to see how it's way off topic. Use of the flag and anthem is divisive in your opinion (and the opinion of many with GAA interests). It's either a yes or no answer. Which one eh?
Quote from: general_lee on September 30, 2015, 10:26:26 PM
It would mean a hell of a lot more to me if the state that uses it had shown any sort of courage or back bone to protect those citizens it conveniently forgot about and continues to forget about in the north. Taking into consideration the lyrics I find it hypocritical to say the least - but that's an argument for another day.
Couldn't agree more...
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 10:35:24 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 10:14:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 10:04:55 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 09:49:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 09:28:41 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 09:26:36 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 09:15:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 07:59:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 05:45:27 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 30, 2015, 05:15:24 PM
Even if it doesn't encourage more unionists it's a played out novelty that has worn off.
Has it now? That's your throwaway attitude towards it. Means nothing to you obviously.
It's an opinion shared by most of the contributors on this thread, all of whom are here as they have a shared interest in GAA.
Shouldn't the national anthem just be banned altogether this being the case? Is that what you're saying?
No, it isn't. Are you reading words that aren't there?
Should it be removed from other sporting occasions too? What about that rugby crowd using it?
I'm not too concerned with what other sports or sporting occasions do.
Surely the president or taoiseach should refrain from using the anthem at their ceremonies too if it's deemed divisive? Or have you no opinion on that either?
Now you're going way off topic just to try and pick an argument. I have no issue with the Taoiseach or President using the anthem, given that such scenarios are in the realm of politics and state functions, where anthems and flags are relevant. But as i've said, that's way off topic. This discussion is about the use of flags and anthems in the context of the GAA.
I fail to see how it's way off topic. Use of the flag and anthem is divisive in your opinion (and the opinion of many with GAA interests). It's either a yes or no answer. Which one eh?
I never actually said their use was divisive. I just consider them unnecessary at a match. That's why the context is relevant. For example, GSTQ playing and the Union Jack flying when the Queen is somewhere on a state visit = appropriate. GSTQ playing and the Union Jack flying at Northern Ireland matches at Windsor = not so appropriate. Context.
This has descended into farce Unsurprisingly
On one side you have some posters with the tired and tested fire and brimstone nationalistic BS. That the GAA is Irish, the tricolour is Irish therefore it should be flown...blah blah blah
Then on the other hand you have the progressive, mature as nation morons who wish to disassociate with the above posters and see the best way of doing that to oppose any of their positions. "Worn out novelty" is one of the worst reasonings I've ever heard
Neither have good reasoning IMO. The nats at least have a position based on the status quo but they tend to be a dangerous, incitful (sic), froth at the mouth bunch.
The progs postion is usually rather laughably based on what the opposite of the nats is, and appear more reasonable but then if you disagree, the sneering and demonising starts.
There are legitimate arguments to be had on both sides of this. I can understand why people would argue that the GAA is a nationalist organization and shouldn't be ashamed of it. That's a well-intentioned sentiment, but keeping divisive symbolism is ultimately self-defeating. If you want to keep such an exclusive identity then knock yourself out, but don't be surprised if your growth is limited because only a certain type of person wants to join in with the games. But if we want more people to play the games and want them to appreciate Irish culture, then you have to give some serious thought to the way the organization is perceived and consider the possibility of making it more accessible.
A lot of people seem to be missing the distinction between politics and culture here, which is unsurprising given the way culture has been weaponized for years. There are northern protestants who clearly don't want to get involved with the politics of Irish nationalism, but on the other hand they would have an interest in the culture of the country. If we don't reach out to them and make some sort of gesture then we're missing an opportunity.
The thing about politics is it's not one of those topics you bring up in polite company, because as soon as you declare your allegiance then you've just alienated half the people in the room. For the GAA to effectively do the same thing and alienate half the people in the north doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 01, 2015, 03:54:48 AM
There are legitimate arguments to be had on both sides of this. I can understand why people would argue that the GAA is a nationalist organization and shouldn't be ashamed of it. That's a well-intentioned sentiment, but keeping divisive symbolism is ultimately self-defeating. If you want to keep such an exclusive identity then knock yourself out, but don't be surprised if your growth is limited because only a certain type of person wants to join in with the games. But if we want more people to play the games and want them to appreciate Irish culture, then you have to give some serious thought to the way the organization is perceived and consider the possibility of making it more accessible.
A lot of people seem to be missing the distinction between politics and culture here, which is unsurprising given the way culture has been weaponized for years. There are northern protestants who clearly don't want to get involved with the politics of Irish nationalism, but on the other hand they would have an interest in the culture of the country. If we don't reach out to them and make some sort of gesture then we're missing an opportunity.
The thing about politics is it's not one of those topics you bring up in polite company, because as soon as you declare your allegiance then you've just alienated half the people in the room. For the GAA to effectively do the same thing and alienate half the people in the north doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Spot on Eamonn.
Precisely what I've been trying to say only with a nice practical scenario.
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 30, 2015, 11:39:22 PM
"Worn out novelty" is one of the worst reasonings I've ever heard
Why? Because it's actually true? You might enjoy shallow and meaningless displays of patriotism where you are but it gets kinda tiresome for me when at every club game we get subjected to it being dragged out and half the crowd mumbling along pretending to know the lyrics. Sure even big intercounty championship matches the last 5 seconds are usually lost because the crowd start roaring.
Will the removal of the anthem and flag from GAA games encourage an influx of northern protestants to take up the sport?
Id argue that some would, most wouldn't. Most would still find fault and an excuse not to play. Most still see the GAA as the IRA at play. I'm not sure if that perception will ever change.
So is there a benefit to the GAA community, as we are now, for the removal of the flag and anthem?
Some are saying it is outdated/ not with the times/ a worn out novelty.
For me I've stood on the pitch facing the tricolour with clubmates & county mates in big matches with the anthem playing and the hairs just stand up on the back of my neck and a lump forms in my throat.
So, for me, I would miss them if they were removed.
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 11:10:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 10:35:24 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 10:14:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 10:04:55 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 09:49:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 09:28:41 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 09:26:36 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 09:15:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 07:59:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 05:45:27 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 30, 2015, 05:15:24 PM
Even if it doesn't encourage more unionists it's a played out novelty that has worn off.
Has it now? That's your throwaway attitude towards it. Means nothing to you obviously.
It's an opinion shared by most of the contributors on this thread, all of whom are here as they have a shared interest in GAA.
Shouldn't the national anthem just be banned altogether this being the case? Is that what you're saying?
No, it isn't. Are you reading words that aren't there?
Should it be removed from other sporting occasions too? What about that rugby crowd using it?
I'm not too concerned with what other sports or sporting occasions do.
Surely the president or taoiseach should refrain from using the anthem at their ceremonies too if it's deemed divisive? Or have you no opinion on that either?
Now you're going way off topic just to try and pick an argument. I have no issue with the Taoiseach or President using the anthem, given that such scenarios are in the realm of politics and state functions, where anthems and flags are relevant. But as i've said, that's way off topic. This discussion is about the use of flags and anthems in the context of the GAA.
I fail to see how it's way off topic. Use of the flag and anthem is divisive in your opinion (and the opinion of many with GAA interests). It's either a yes or no answer. Which one eh?
I never actually said their use was divisive. I just consider them unnecessary at a match. That's why the context is relevant. For example, GSTQ playing and the Union Jack flying when the Queen is somewhere on a state visit = appropriate. GSTQ playing and the Union Jack flying at Northern Ireland matches at Windsor = not so appropriate. Context.
Unnecessary because you dislike it. Either you deem it divisive or not in any situation - it's the same song wherever. Your "context" argument is invalid.
Watching Enda stand to attention of the flag and anthem of the people he's betrayed makes me nauseous. If you really want rid of it start there.
Quote from: general_lee on October 01, 2015, 08:10:32 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 30, 2015, 11:39:22 PM
"Worn out novelty" is one of the worst reasonings I've ever heard
Why? Because it's actually true? You might enjoy shallow and meaningless displays of patriotism where you are but it gets kinda tiresome for me when at every club game we get subjected to it being dragged out and half the crowd mumbling along pretending to know the lyrics. Sure even big intercounty championship matches the last 5 seconds are usually lost because the crowd start roaring.
Here goes the demonising ::)
A quick read of a couple of my posts in this thread and you will find your blindside is completely wide of the mark
To answer your question...No. Because "Worn out novelty" doesnt make any sense, let alone be true. Here why...
1. Its not a novelty, it has been around for donkey's ages
2. Every novelty becomes worn out
3. Because its subjective opinion wether its worn out or not
Official Guide 2015
1.2 The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes.
Before we get to the fleg and the anthem, surely this bit is the one the vast majority of Northern Unionists might have a problem with?? To say nothing of this...
1.4 The Association shall actively support the Irish language, traditional Irish dancing, music, song, and other aspects of Irish culture. It shall foster an awareness and love of the national ideals in the people of Ireland...
To be honest I have to say that spending a lot of time and resources to attract Northern Unionists to embrace the GAA is a complete waste of time/energy/money. You've as much chance of attracting Namibians to the Association.
Quote from: Pub Bore on October 01, 2015, 04:48:40 PM
Official Guide 2015
1.4 The Association shall actively support the Irish language, traditional Irish dancing, music, song, and other aspects of Irish culture. It shall foster an awareness and love of the national ideals in the people of Ireland...
You've as much chance of attracting Namibians to the Association.
There's a lot more to get rid of than a flag and an anthem if we're to "reach out" to unionists, curry my yougurt.
(http://cdn.livegaelic.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/w640.jpg)
South Africa beat Namibia to become 2018 All-Ireland champions
Just reading Mick Foley's "The Bloodied Field" at the moment, which is a brilliant account of events leading up to Bloody Sunday 1920. Well worth reading especially for the examination of the intertwining of the GAA and the Volunteers/IRB (for obvious and necessary reasons) but also for the contortions that early patrons of the GAA had to use to persuade the authorities and the Catholic Church that they were non-political.
Fast forward 50 years and the same dilemmas faced the GAA in the Six Counties, with the same (at times deadly) consequences.
Judging by the debate above, I think it is worth a read for context.
My own best memory of the anthem is the 2013 semi final against Kerry - beautiful day, amazing atmosphere and there had been a minutes silence for Heffo and Paidi, so there was a real poignant quality to the air. Then the anthem starts, and everyone belts it out, practically to the end. Hair well and truly standing up by the end of it, and not just with the durable wax.
However, I wouldn't mind seeing it gone, provided its absence would make some kind of material difference to the Protestant participation in our games. Perhaps the best thing to do before dropping flags and anthems (though again, given the 32 county nature of the GAA, I think they should be dropped) would be to have a debate about what "promoting the National identity" actually means, and also, more importantly, what the "National identity" is actually defined as.
Given the steps taken in recent years, starting with the lifting of the ban on foreign games, all the way through to the opening of Croke Park and the participation of British soldiers and PSNI in the GAA, i think a special Congress is in order to define this ideal, or redefine it in the light of modern society. It may be, after the debate, that flying a flag and playing an anthem may be contrary to promoting a national identity.
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 01, 2015, 05:36:03 PM
Just reading Mick Foley's "The Bloodied Field" at the moment, which is a brilliant account of events leading up to Bloody Sunday 1920. Well worth reading especially for the examination of the intertwining of the GAA and the Volunteers/IRB (for obvious and necessary reasons) but also for the contortions that early patrons of the GAA had to use to persuade the authorities and the Catholic Church that they were non-political.
Fast forward 50 years and the same dilemmas faced the GAA in the Six Counties, with the same (at times deadly) consequences.
Judging by the debate above, I think it is worth a read for context.
My own best memory of the anthem is the 2013 semi final against Kerry - beautiful day, amazing atmosphere and there had been a minutes silence for Heffo and Paidi, so there was a real poignant quality to the air. Then the anthem starts, and everyone belts it out, practically to the end. Hair well and truly standing up by the end of it, and not just with the durable wax.
However, I wouldn't mind seeing it gone, provided its absence would make some kind of material difference to the Protestant participation in our games. Perhaps the best thing to do before dropping flags and anthems (though again, given the 32 county nature of the GAA, I think they should be dropped) would be to have a debate about what "promoting the National identity" actually means, and also, more importantly, what the "National identity" is actually defined as.
Given the steps taken in recent years, starting with the lifting of the ban on foreign games, all the way through to the opening of Croke Park and the participation of British soldiers and PSNI in the GAA, i think a special Congress is in order to define this ideal, or redefine it in the light of modern society. It may be, after the debate, that flying a flag and playing an anthem may be contrary to promoting a national identity.
If Ireland (meaning the island of Ireland) is ever to have a "national identity" then it has to be something other than choosing either of the exclusive identities of the two "nations" who occupy the island. How such a "national identity" is to be forged I have no idea, but it will require a level of generosity and open-mindedness from both sides that we have not seen to date.
Whatever the National Identity" may be its strengthening is to be done by "promotion and preservation of Gaelic games and pastimes".
The preservation bit is surely out of date now.
What are " Gaelic pastimes" I wonder?
Sounds like Riail 1.2 is overdue some modernisation/ updating.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on October 01, 2015, 06:35:40 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 01, 2015, 05:36:03 PM
Just reading Mick Foley's "The Bloodied Field" at the moment, which is a brilliant account of events leading up to Bloody Sunday 1920. Well worth reading especially for the examination of the intertwining of the GAA and the Volunteers/IRB (for obvious and necessary reasons) but also for the contortions that early patrons of the GAA had to use to persuade the authorities and the Catholic Church that they were non-political.
Fast forward 50 years and the same dilemmas faced the GAA in the Six Counties, with the same (at times deadly) consequences.
Judging by the debate above, I think it is worth a read for context.
My own best memory of the anthem is the 2013 semi final against Kerry - beautiful day, amazing atmosphere and there had been a minutes silence for Heffo and Paidi, so there was a real poignant quality to the air. Then the anthem starts, and everyone belts it out, practically to the end. Hair well and truly standing up by the end of it, and not just with the durable wax.
However, I wouldn't mind seeing it gone, provided its absence would make some kind of material difference to the Protestant participation in our games. Perhaps the best thing to do before dropping flags and anthems (though again, given the 32 county nature of the GAA, I think they should be dropped) would be to have a debate about what "promoting the National identity" actually means, and also, more importantly, what the "National identity" is actually defined as.
Given the steps taken in recent years, starting with the lifting of the ban on foreign games, all the way through to the opening of Croke Park and the participation of British soldiers and PSNI in the GAA, i think a special Congress is in order to define this ideal, or redefine it in the light of modern society. It may be, after the debate, that flying a flag and playing an anthem may be contrary to promoting a national identity.
If Ireland (meaning the island of Ireland) is ever to have a "national identity" then it has to be something other than choosing either of the exclusive identities of the two "nations" who occupy the island. How such a "national identity" is to be forged I have no idea, but it will require a level of generosity and open-mindedness from both sides that we have not seen to date.
The only way that'll happen is if all Northern Catholics were uprooted to the South, or all Protestants were shipped over to Britain. Seriously that's the only way. The North is a political cesspit, always was and always will be. The place just doesn't work and never will.
This idea of leading unionists down the path to a United Ireland and into an Irish or mixed identity/culture/society/tradition is just pie in the sky.
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2015, 07:53:01 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on October 01, 2015, 06:35:40 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 01, 2015, 05:36:03 PM
Just reading Mick Foley's "The Bloodied Field" at the moment, which is a brilliant account of events leading up to Bloody Sunday 1920. Well worth reading especially for the examination of the intertwining of the GAA and the Volunteers/IRB (for obvious and necessary reasons) but also for the contortions that early patrons of the GAA had to use to persuade the authorities and the Catholic Church that they were non-political.
Fast forward 50 years and the same dilemmas faced the GAA in the Six Counties, with the same (at times deadly) consequences.
Judging by the debate above, I think it is worth a read for context.
My own best memory of the anthem is the 2013 semi final against Kerry - beautiful day, amazing atmosphere and there had been a minutes silence for Heffo and Paidi, so there was a real poignant quality to the air. Then the anthem starts, and everyone belts it out, practically to the end. Hair well and truly standing up by the end of it, and not just with the durable wax.
However, I wouldn't mind seeing it gone, provided its absence would make some kind of material difference to the Protestant participation in our games. Perhaps the best thing to do before dropping flags and anthems (though again, given the 32 county nature of the GAA, I think they should be dropped) would be to have a debate about what "promoting the National identity" actually means, and also, more importantly, what the "National identity" is actually defined as.
Given the steps taken in recent years, starting with the lifting of the ban on foreign games, all the way through to the opening of Croke Park and the participation of British soldiers and PSNI in the GAA, i think a special Congress is in order to define this ideal, or redefine it in the light of modern society. It may be, after the debate, that flying a flag and playing an anthem may be contrary to promoting a national identity.
If Ireland (meaning the island of Ireland) is ever to have a "national identity" then it has to be something other than choosing either of the exclusive identities of the two "nations" who occupy the island. How such a "national identity" is to be forged I have no idea, but it will require a level of generosity and open-mindedness from both sides that we have not seen to date.
The only way that'll happen is if all Northern Catholics were uprooted to the South, or all Protestants were shipped over to Britain. Seriously that's the only way. The North is a political cesspit, always was and always will be. The place just doesn't work and never will.
This idea of leading unionists down the path to a United Ireland and into an Irish or mixed identity/culture/society/tradition is just pie in the sky.
The GAA is better off spending time and effort into growing the sports in places like the US and Australia rather than woo unionists who don't care.
The US particularly has huge potential if done right but sadly HQ doesn't seem to want to bother, leaving it to the many volunteers at the clubs to shoulder. Teams like Pittsburgh have their top mens squad consisting exclusively of non-irish players for example. Colleges are forming Hurling teams. It's a huge opportunity.
I wish Jarlath was as concerned at making sure the games were accessible to the Masters players - as pointed out on another thread.
Quote from: doodaa on October 01, 2015, 08:11:11 AM
Will the removal of the anthem and flag from GAA games encourage an influx of northern protestants to take up the sport?
Id argue that some would, most wouldn't. Most would still find fault and an excuse not to play. Most still see the GAA as the IRA at play. I'm not sure if that perception will ever change.
So is there a benefit to the GAA community, as we are now, for the removal of the flag and anthem?
Some are saying it is outdated/ not with the times/ a worn out novelty.
For me I've stood on the pitch facing the tricolour with clubmates & county mates in big matches with the anthem playing and the hairs just stand up on the back of my neck and a lump forms in my throat.
So, for me, I would miss them if they were removed.
So if we can't recruit every single northern Protestant them we shouldn't bother trying to attract any of them? Why does it have to be all or nothing?
Well Benny/Fox, I'll bow to your superior knowledge of the Northern situation. But given all that, I still think a root and branch reappraisal of the GAA's raison d'etre is long overdue. All due respect to the founders of the association, if that means jettisoning some of the language re safeguarding culture etc then so be it. I don't think, no matter how bad the situation that Gaelic "culture" as it exists now is in danger.
Quote from: foxcommander on October 01, 2015, 03:47:32 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 11:10:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 10:35:24 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 10:14:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 10:04:55 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 09:49:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 09:28:41 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 09:26:36 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 09:15:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 07:59:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 05:45:27 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 30, 2015, 05:15:24 PM
Even if it doesn't encourage more unionists it's a played out novelty that has worn off.
Has it now? That's your throwaway attitude towards it. Means nothing to you obviously.
It's an opinion shared by most of the contributors on this thread, all of whom are here as they have a shared interest in GAA.
Shouldn't the national anthem just be banned altogether this being the case? Is that what you're saying?
No, it isn't. Are you reading words that aren't there?
Should it be removed from other sporting occasions too? What about that rugby crowd using it?
I'm not too concerned with what other sports or sporting occasions do.
Surely the president or taoiseach should refrain from using the anthem at their ceremonies too if it's deemed divisive? Or have you no opinion on that either?
Now you're going way off topic just to try and pick an argument. I have no issue with the Taoiseach or President using the anthem, given that such scenarios are in the realm of politics and state functions, where anthems and flags are relevant. But as i've said, that's way off topic. This discussion is about the use of flags and anthems in the context of the GAA.
I fail to see how it's way off topic. Use of the flag and anthem is divisive in your opinion (and the opinion of many with GAA interests). It's either a yes or no answer. Which one eh?
I never actually said their use was divisive. I just consider them unnecessary at a match. That's why the context is relevant. For example, GSTQ playing and the Union Jack flying when the Queen is somewhere on a state visit = appropriate. GSTQ playing and the Union Jack flying at Northern Ireland matches at Windsor = not so appropriate. Context.
Unnecessary because you dislike it. Either you deem it divisive or not in any situation - it's the same song wherever. Your "context" argument is invalid.
Why? Just because you say so? I've clearly shown where an anthem can be 'contentious' in one context and not in another. If you don't understand that, then fair enough.
And it's not "unnecessary because I dislike it", it's unnecessary because you don't need a song to play a game of football. That's a fact. I've seen it happen.
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 01, 2015, 08:43:36 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 01, 2015, 03:47:32 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 11:10:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 10:35:24 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 10:14:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 10:04:55 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 09:49:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 09:28:41 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 09:26:36 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 09:15:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 07:59:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 05:45:27 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 30, 2015, 05:15:24 PM
Even if it doesn't encourage more unionists it's a played out novelty that has worn off.
Has it now? That's your throwaway attitude towards it. Means nothing to you obviously.
It's an opinion shared by most of the contributors on this thread, all of whom are here as they have a shared interest in GAA.
Shouldn't the national anthem just be banned altogether this being the case? Is that what you're saying?
No, it isn't. Are you reading words that aren't there?
Should it be removed from other sporting occasions too? What about that rugby crowd using it?
I'm not too concerned with what other sports or sporting occasions do.
Surely the president or taoiseach should refrain from using the anthem at their ceremonies too if it's deemed divisive? Or have you no opinion on that either?
Now you're going way off topic just to try and pick an argument. I have no issue with the Taoiseach or President using the anthem, given that such scenarios are in the realm of politics and state functions, where anthems and flags are relevant. But as i've said, that's way off topic. This discussion is about the use of flags and anthems in the context of the GAA.
I fail to see how it's way off topic. Use of the flag and anthem is divisive in your opinion (and the opinion of many with GAA interests). It's either a yes or no answer. Which one eh?
I never actually said their use was divisive. I just consider them unnecessary at a match. That's why the context is relevant. For example, GSTQ playing and the Union Jack flying when the Queen is somewhere on a state visit = appropriate. GSTQ playing and the Union Jack flying at Northern Ireland matches at Windsor = not so appropriate. Context.
Unnecessary because you dislike it. Either you deem it divisive or not in any situation - it's the same song wherever. Your "context" argument is invalid.
Why? Just because you say so? I've clearly shown where an anthem can be 'contentious' in one context and not in another. If you don't understand that, then fair enough.
And it's not "unnecessary because I dislike it", it's unnecessary because you don't need a song to play a game of football. That's a fact. I've seen it happen.
So you have a problem singing along to GSTQ at Windsor park but quite happy to sing along to it when you're in the crowd waving at the Queen?
Though i doubt he is, only one of those examples actually has the physical presence of a Queen - so you'd probably be more likely to hear a song asking God to save her at that event. Whereas, unless the Linfield supporters club have been keeping it quiet, Lizzie doesn't have a season ticket for Windsor Park, but the football still goes on - so does it really need her theme tune?
I'd love a theme tune for myself.
While Burns was misquoted to some extent, and was promoting himself, he was unwise to raise this issue. Any attempt to progress this will bring out those for whom part of the attraction of the flag is that pisses off Protestants. They will fight with the forelock tuggers who would like to apologise for the existence of Ireland. Neither of these groups have the interests of Ireland or the GAA at heart, and nothing here is actually going to get more people in the GAA.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 01, 2015, 09:48:06 PM
While Burns was misquoted to some extent, and was promoting himself, he was unwise to raise this issue. Any attempt to progress this will bring out those for whom part of the attraction of the flag is that pisses off Protestants. They will fight with the forelock tuggers who would like to apologise for the existence of Ireland. Neither of these groups have the interests of Ireland or the GAA at heart, and nothing here is actually going to get more people in the GAA.
I don't see anyone fitting that description on this thread. You're just throwing mud.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 01, 2015, 09:48:06 PM
While Burns was misquoted to some extent, and was promoting himself, he was unwise to raise this issue. Any attempt to progress this will bring out those for whom part of the attraction of the flag is that pisses off Protestants. They will fight with the forelock tuggers who would like to apologise for the existence of Ireland. Neither of these groups have the interests of Ireland or the GAA at heart, and nothing here is actually going to get more people in the GAA.
There it is again. All or nothing. You either have to hate the ground the Brits walk on or you're a forelock-tugging bootlicker. Nothing in between.
When there's a senior double header in Croker the Anthem is only played before the second game.
How does that affect the playing of the first game???
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 01, 2015, 11:03:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 01, 2015, 09:48:06 PM
While Burns was misquoted to some extent, and was promoting himself, he was unwise to raise this issue. Any attempt to progress this will bring out those for whom part of the attraction of the flag is that pisses off Protestants. They will fight with the forelock tuggers who would like to apologise for the existence of Ireland. Neither of these groups have the interests of Ireland or the GAA at heart, and nothing here is actually going to get more people in the GAA.
There it is again. All or nothing. You either have to hate the ground the Brits walk on or you're a forelock-tugging bootlicker. Nothing in between.
That's not exactly what was said tho. It looked like he was giving the extreme examples
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 28, 2015, 10:28:35 PM
Ah sure while he's at it, he may as well drop the Gaelic part from it and just call it the A.A. The GAA was founded on nationalism. I know that some people will agree with him, but I don't.
Founded about 130 years ago.
Being hostages to 19th century ideals is never going to be the best approach Farr. Same sentiment in Amercan politics where they deify their country's founders as if they were any more enlightened or any less flawed humans than people today. The GAA is the possession of the present, not the past.
To me the GAA should be about sport and community first and foremost, a national anthem or a flag have little meaning to me when I go to see my county or club play football. Anything that would make the sports more inclusive is a positive.
I agree. I've never went to a match to hear the national anthem or watch a flag.
I do like the anthem and the flag but I reckon a compromise could be reached. Say maybe only from quarter final stage???
Also, if they were done away with, how many Protestants/unionists would we attract
Quote from: tonto1888 on October 02, 2015, 09:10:25 PM
I do like the anthem and the flag but I reckon a compromise could be reached. Say maybe only from quarter final stage???
Also, if they were done away with, how many Protestants/unionists would we attract
I agree to a certain extent. The Anthem is played too often.
I think we should reserve it for the big occasions, such as County, Provincial and All-Ireland Finals.
Quote from: muppet on October 02, 2015, 09:27:44 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on October 02, 2015, 09:10:25 PM
I do like the anthem and the flag but I reckon a compromise could be reached. Say maybe only from quarter final stage???
Also, if they were done away with, how many Protestants/unionists would we attract
I agree to a certain extent. The Anthem is played too often.
I think we should reserve it for the big occasions, such as County, Provincial and All-Ireland Finals.
+1.
This scratching it out at every oul League game and the like is silly and disrespectful.
Maybe the anthem is overplayed I agree with that as in league games but I don't agree with others that it means nothing , i love it in croker and so do the majority .
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 29, 2015, 06:04:20 PM
Pleasantly surprised to see such agreement with Jarlath's proposal. Apart from the potential to make the GAA more appealing to some (others will never embrace it, and we should spend little time trying to accommodate them) the flag and anthem add little as it is.
Only seeing this now, hence my late reply. Your statement is simply bollocks. As a player, standing for the anthem before a game is a very proud moment for me and most certainly adds to the occasion. You certainly don't speak for all gaels with this.
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 09:56:20 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 29, 2015, 06:04:20 PM
Pleasantly surprised to see such agreement with Jarlath's proposal. Apart from the potential to make the GAA more appealing to some (others will never embrace it, and we should spend little time trying to accommodate them) the flag and anthem add little as it is.
Only seeing this now, hence my late reply. Your statement is simply bollocks. As a player, standing for the anthem before a game is a very proud moment for me and most certainly adds to the occasion. You certainly don't speak for all gaels with this.
And neither do you ;)
I see that quaint term "gaels" hasn't totally vanished yet.
Does the word " Gaeldom" ever get used any more?
Quote from: Rossfan on October 03, 2015, 11:28:24 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 09:56:20 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 29, 2015, 06:04:20 PM
Pleasantly surprised to see such agreement with Jarlath's proposal. Apart from the potential to make the GAA more appealing to some (others will never embrace it, and we should spend little time trying to accommodate them) the flag and anthem add little as it is.
Only seeing this now, hence my late reply. Your statement is simply bollocks. As a player, standing for the anthem before a game is a very proud moment for me and most certainly adds to the occasion. You certainly don't speak for all gaels with this.
And neither do you ;)
I see that quaint term "gaels" hasn't totally vanished yet.
Does the word " Gaeldom" ever get used any more?
No, but I thought I'd cleared that up by using the phrase 'for me' you idiot.
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 09:56:20 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 29, 2015, 06:04:20 PM
Pleasantly surprised to see such agreement with Jarlath's proposal. Apart from the potential to make the GAA more appealing to some (others will never embrace it, and we should spend little time trying to accommodate them) the flag and anthem add little as it is.
Only seeing this now, hence my late reply. Your statement is simply bollocks. As a player, standing for the anthem before a game is a very proud moment for me and most certainly adds to the occasion. You certainly don't speak for all gaels with this.
I never claimed to speak for anyone other than myself, so calm yourself.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 03, 2015, 11:28:24 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 09:56:20 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 29, 2015, 06:04:20 PM
Pleasantly surprised to see such agreement with Jarlath's proposal. Apart from the potential to make the GAA more appealing to some (others will never embrace it, and we should spend little time trying to accommodate them) the flag and anthem add little as it is.
Only seeing this now, hence my late reply. Your statement is simply bollocks. As a player, standing for the anthem before a game is a very proud moment for me and most certainly adds to the occasion. You certainly don't speak for all gaels with this.
And neither do you ;)
I see that quaint term "gaels" hasn't totally vanished yet.
Does the word " Gaeldom" ever get used any more?
Why is there such a need for scrutiny in everything in today's world . A Gael , a person who loves the GAA and has a gra for a bit of aul nationalism , what about it , what's the problem .
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 03, 2015, 11:48:30 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 09:56:20 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 29, 2015, 06:04:20 PM
Pleasantly surprised to see such agreement with Jarlath's proposal. Apart from the potential to make the GAA more appealing to some (others will never embrace it, and we should spend little time trying to accommodate them) the flag and anthem add little as it is.
Only seeing this now, hence my late reply. Your statement is simply bollocks. As a player, standing for the anthem before a game is a very proud moment for me and most certainly adds to the occasion. You certainly don't speak for all gaels with this.
I never claimed to speak for anyone other than myself, so calm yourself.
In your opinion, the flag and anthem add nothing. That carries a little less weight than your previous announcement. In my opinion they add a great deal.
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 11:41:40 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 03, 2015, 11:28:24 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 09:56:20 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 29, 2015, 06:04:20 PM
Pleasantly surprised to see such agreement with Jarlath's proposal. Apart from the potential to make the GAA more appealing to some (others will never embrace it, and we should spend little time trying to accommodate them) the flag and anthem add little as it is.
Only seeing this now, hence my late reply. Your statement is simply bollocks. As a player, standing for the anthem before a game is a very proud moment for me and most certainly adds to the occasion. You certainly don't speak for all gaels with this.
And neither do you ;)
I see that quaint term "gaels" hasn't totally vanished yet.
Does the word " Gaeldom" ever get used any more?
No, but I thought I'd cleared that up by using the phrase 'for me' you idiot.
I'm not an idiot and stop the personal abuse.
Another cranky getting out the wrong side of the bed
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 03, 2015, 11:48:30 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 09:56:20 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 29, 2015, 06:04:20 PM
Pleasantly surprised to see such agreement with Jarlath's proposal. Apart from the potential to make the GAA more appealing to some (others will never embrace it, and we should spend little time trying to accommodate them) the flag and anthem add little as it is.
Only seeing this now, hence my late reply. Your statement is simply bollocks. As a player, standing for the anthem before a game is a very proud moment for me and most certainly adds to the occasion. You certainly don't speak for all gaels with this.
I never claimed to speak for anyone other than myself, so calm yourself.
In your opinion, the flag and anthem add nothing. That carries a little less weight than your previous announcement. In my opinion they add a great deal.
Good for you.
Quote from: tonto1888 on October 02, 2015, 09:10:25 PM
I do like the anthem and the flag but I reckon a compromise could be reached. Say maybe only from quarter final stage???
Also, if they were done away with, how many Protestants/unionists would we attract
You have to think long term though. By itself it isn't going to get many unionists to play GAA but given how heightened in importance anthems and flags are in the north removing that obstacle makes efforts to be more inclusive in the future less likely to die on the rocks of something silly and not really of any functional importance to the sport's the GAA promotes and organises.
Quote from: Syferus on October 03, 2015, 04:37:41 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on October 02, 2015, 09:10:25 PM
I do like the anthem and the flag but I reckon a compromise could be reached. Say maybe only from quarter final stage???
Also, if they were done away with, how many Protestants/unionists would we attract
You have to think long term though. By itself it isn't going to get many unionists to play GAA but given how heightened in importance anthems and flags are in the north removing that obstacle makes efforts to be more inclusive in the future less likely to die on the rocks of something silly and not really of any functional importance to the sport's the GAA promotes and organises.
I fail to see the rush...some of you are tripping over yourselves to appease the british army and unionists..
Quote from: foxcommander on October 03, 2015, 05:17:00 PM
I fail to see the rush...some of you are tripping over yourselves to appease the british army and unionists..
"Appease"? You make it sound like they just invaded Czechoslovakia.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 04, 2015, 06:28:47 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 03, 2015, 05:17:00 PM
I fail to see the rush...some of you are tripping over yourselves to appease the british army and unionists..
"Appease"? You make it sound like they just invaded Czechoslovakia.
They've invaded Ireland. In the view of some people here if you recently started abusing someone or someplace, that's a disgrace, if you've been doing it for years that's no problem (unless it is the Catholic church, of course).
Jesus Christ.
Interestingly the Protestant religious commentator of the Belfast Telegraph commended Jarlath in his column yesterday and said that many Protestants and Unionists like himself admire Gaelic Games but that the more people like Jarlath and Trevor Ringland attempt to depoliticise sport the better.
I think the issue re the flag and anthem definitely needs exploration. I think it probably presents a bigger difficulty for the IRFU , as you have a situation where a significant percentage of players and supporters are from a unionist background, and yet play under a flag and anthem which , rightly or wrongly, is perceived as being antagonistic towards their British community. But, interestingly the same could be said of "oh flower of Scotland " ,and that's often the nature of anthems.
The GAA is not , nor ever likely to be , a major global sport, this is for practical as opposed to sporting reasons . In Ireland however , GAA punches well above its weight, blowing major global sports out of the water, despite the obvious advantages these other sports enjoy from a marketing and financial perspective.
Why is this? I think the main reason for this , is that for a significant number of members ( and particularly those that organise and do the hard work in our clubs ) the GAA is not just a sport, it's different, it's a manifestation of our national identity. This is a cultural as opposed to a political nationalism, as GAA members come from a wide variety of political backgrounds eg Sinn féin, Sdlp , alliance and believe it or not, even unionist !
For many of us , we have a strong affinity to our clubs, county and GAA as a whole , which no other sport enjoys in Ireland . I suppose the nearest you get to that depth and breadth of passion is supporters of some top historic soccer clubs eg Liverpool , Man United , Celtic , Newcastle etc, and in this country , both international soccer teams and the provincial and national rugby teams.
What I am trying to say , without being in anyway political, is that the GAA would be playing a very risky game if they dilute that sense of national pride .
Throughout the troubles, our own club had several players from Protestant and , I imagine unionist backgrounds . I would like to think, the reason they played was that we were friends , and they felt as welcome and comfortable as anybody else. They were playing and enjoying sport among their mates, and their religious and political persuasion was irrelevant, we did not have to dilute our national identity to get them on board.
Speaking from a purely practical perspective, removing the flag and anthem is unlikely to attract droves of players and workers from the unionist community, but runs the risk of alienating GAA members , many of whom are the tireless workers whose sense of Irishness is an important part of their commitment to their club and the GAA as a whole.
The identity that the GAA reinforces is more of a local and regional one rather than a national one. The traditional 32 counties of Ireland are long gone as far as local government is concerned, but their identity remains as strong as ever thanks mainly to the GAA and the sense of territorial allegiance that it thrives on. Local communities have inter-club rivalries that are deep rooted several generations back.
The national identity doesn't really come into play until you reach an all-Ireland final since it's a national occasion, but it's the culmination of a lot of regional scraps. Dropping the anthem and flag form a few games in the north isn't going to undermine anyone's pride in being an Armagh man or Down man or whatever. I think the association would soldier on just fine, just like it did after the peelers were allowed to play, just like it did after GSTQ was played before a soccer match in Croke Park, and just like it did after Queen Elizabeth paid a visit. All of these things that were going to "destroy the GAA as we know it," and here we are with an association that's never been stronger.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 04, 2015, 07:18:28 PM
The identity that the GAA reinforces is more of a local and regional one rather than a national one. The traditional 32 counties of Ireland are long gone as far as local government is concerned, but their identity remains as strong as ever thanks mainly to the GAA and the sense of territorial allegiance that it thrives on. Local communities have inter-club rivalries that are deep rooted several generations back.
The national identity doesn't really come into play until you reach an all-Ireland final since it's a national occasion, but it's the culmination of a lot of regional scraps. Dropping the anthem and flag form a few games in the north isn't going to undermine anyone's pride in being an Armagh man or Down man or whatever. I think the association would soldier on just fine, just like it did after the peelers were allowed to play, just like it did after GSTQ was played before a soccer match in Croke Park, and just like it did after Queen Elizabeth paid a visit. All of these things that were going to "destroy the GAA as we know it," and here we are with an association that's never been stronger.
We'd have to give the Orange Order a fair bit of credit for the county identity as well Eamonn, and sure wouldn't the apple chompers still be playing in their jumpers only for them. ;)
As a southerner I find that if you meet someone abroad from PUL community and ask what part are they from they often identify town and city. Most CNRs generally say whatever county.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 04, 2015, 07:18:28 PM
The identity that the GAA reinforces is more of a local and regional one rather than a national one. The traditional 32 counties of Ireland are long gone as far as local government is concerned, but their identity remains as strong as ever thanks mainly to the GAA and the sense of territorial allegiance that it thrives on. Local communities have inter-club rivalries that are deep rooted several generations back.
The national identity doesn't really come into play until you reach an all-Ireland final since it's a national occasion, but it's the culmination of a lot of regional scraps. Dropping the anthem and flag form a few games in the north isn't going to undermine anyone's pride in being an Armagh man or Down man or whatever. I think the association would soldier on just fine, just like it did after the peelers were allowed to play, just like it did after GSTQ was played before a soccer match in Croke Park, and just like it did after Queen Elizabeth paid a visit. All of these things that were going to "destroy the GAA as we know it," and here we are with an association that's never been stronger.
Bollicks we are shafting our clubs and their players to suit intercounty . There's no money in the club games and the approach is wrong and shortsighted because the club people bring undying loyalty and a conveyor belt of talent and support to the GAA. That is being walked over year in year out and will cost the GAA dearly. That supercedes any other issue the GAA faces
Quote from: rrhf on October 04, 2015, 10:24:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 04, 2015, 07:18:28 PM
The identity that the GAA reinforces is more of a local and regional one rather than a national one. The traditional 32 counties of Ireland are long gone as far as local government is concerned, but their identity remains as strong as ever thanks mainly to the GAA and the sense of territorial allegiance that it thrives on. Local communities have inter-club rivalries that are deep rooted several generations back.
The national identity doesn't really come into play until you reach an all-Ireland final since it's a national occasion, but it's the culmination of a lot of regional scraps. Dropping the anthem and flag form a few games in the north isn't going to undermine anyone's pride in being an Armagh man or Down man or whatever. I think the association would soldier on just fine, just like it did after the peelers were allowed to play, just like it did after GSTQ was played before a soccer match in Croke Park, and just like it did after Queen Elizabeth paid a visit. All of these things that were going to "destroy the GAA as we know it," and here we are with an association that's never been stronger.
Bollicks we are shafting our clubs and their players to suit intercounty . There's no money in the club games and the approach is wrong and shortsighted because the club people bring undying loyalty and a conveyor belt of talent and support to the GAA. That is being walked over year in year out and will cost the GAA dearly. That supercedes any other issue the GAA faces
Great post !
Only 6, or maybe 7, of the traditional counties are gone as far as local government is concerned, but in a lot of these discussions 6 > 26, it seems, or maybe things are different in California.
The strength of the GAA is that you have your local identity, club, you combine for county, and counties combine in the national association.
Quote from: ashman on October 04, 2015, 11:34:40 PM
Quote from: rrhf on October 04, 2015, 10:24:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 04, 2015, 07:18:28 PM
The identity that the GAA reinforces is more of a local and regional one rather than a national one. The traditional 32 counties of Ireland are long gone as far as local government is concerned, but their identity remains as strong as ever thanks mainly to the GAA and the sense of territorial allegiance that it thrives on. Local communities have inter-club rivalries that are deep rooted several generations back.
The national identity doesn't really come into play until you reach an all-Ireland final since it's a national occasion, but it's the culmination of a lot of regional scraps. Dropping the anthem and flag form a few games in the north isn't going to undermine anyone's pride in being an Armagh man or Down man or whatever. I think the association would soldier on just fine, just like it did after the peelers were allowed to play, just like it did after GSTQ was played before a soccer match in Croke Park, and just like it did after Queen Elizabeth paid a visit. All of these things that were going to "destroy the GAA as we know it," and here we are with an association that's never been stronger.
Bollicks we are shafting our clubs and their players to suit intercounty . There's no money in the club games and the approach is wrong and shortsighted because the club people bring undying loyalty and a conveyor belt of talent and support to the GAA. That is being walked over year in year out and will cost the GAA dearly. That supercedes any other issue the GAA faces
Great post !
Agreed (Greed!)
Quote from: ashman on October 04, 2015, 09:56:04 PM
As a southerner I find that if you meet someone abroad from PUL community and ask what part are they from they often identify town and city. Most CNRs generally say whatever county.
Where I come from everybody says the town, prods and taigs alike. Even if they're from the country like me they'll state the nearest town.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 28, 2015, 10:53:07 PM
The GAA is a national organisation. Should we in the South drop our flags and anthems? Or maybe we should all sing along to Ireland's Call? That'll get the Unionists on board...
It is a National organisation it's even an International organisation but it's not a state organisation.
The GAA should have it's own flag separate to that of the State. The GAA is an All Ireland body and the tricolour and the Anthem do not reflect that as
they have been hijacked by the State.
Change the flag and drop the Anthem for the sake of the GAA even more than for appealing to people.
I hate the word Protestants being used here.The issue is Nationalism not religion.
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 03, 2015, 03:07:50 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 03, 2015, 11:48:30 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 09:56:20 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 29, 2015, 06:04:20 PM
Pleasantly surprised to see such agreement with Jarlath's proposal. Apart from the potential to make the GAA more appealing to some (others will never embrace it, and we should spend little time trying to accommodate them) the flag and anthem add little as it is.
Only seeing this now, hence my late reply. Your statement is simply bollocks. As a player, standing for the anthem before a game is a very proud moment for me and most certainly adds to the occasion. You certainly don't speak for all gaels with this.
I never claimed to speak for anyone other than myself, so calm yourself.
In your opinion, the flag and anthem add nothing. That carries a little less weight than your previous announcement. In my opinion they add a great deal.
Good for you.
Sneering and condescension. A fellow GAA member says that they, in fact, think that the flag and anthem are a good thing and the games would be lessened without it and that's your response. Definitely seems to be a common trait among the 'reform' group.
The thing is, it's probably one of the reasons that the attempts at reform will fail. People don't follow a sneering smartarse with a superiority complex (see Burns). They much prefer someone with a strong belief in something who's not afraid to show it passionately. Actually, that's probably why the SDLP find themselves in the mire they are currently in.
Quote from: Franko on October 05, 2015, 01:07:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 03, 2015, 03:07:50 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 03, 2015, 11:48:30 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 09:56:20 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 29, 2015, 06:04:20 PM
Pleasantly surprised to see such agreement with Jarlath's proposal. Apart from the potential to make the GAA more appealing to some (others will never embrace it, and we should spend little time trying to accommodate them) the flag and anthem add little as it is.
Only seeing this now, hence my late reply. Your statement is simply bollocks. As a player, standing for the anthem before a game is a very proud moment for me and most certainly adds to the occasion. You certainly don't speak for all gaels with this.
I never claimed to speak for anyone other than myself, so calm yourself.
In your opinion, the flag and anthem add nothing. That carries a little less weight than your previous announcement. In my opinion they add a great deal.
Good for you.
Sneering and condescension. A fellow GAA member says that they, in fact, think that the flag and anthem are a good thing and the games would be lessened without it and that's your response. Definitely seems to be a common trait among the 'reform' group.
The thing is, it's probably one of the reasons that the attempts at reform will fail. People don't follow a sneering smartarse with a superiority complex (see Burns). They much prefer someone with a strong belief in something who's not afraid to show it passionately. Actually, that's probably why the SDLP find themselves in the mire they are currently in.
I agree that the anthem adds to the sense of occasion at a big game. I also agree with those who say it is flogged, being played at every league game and the like. However I wouldn't like to get rid of it entirely. County Finals, Provincial Finals, All Ireland Finals, I think it is perfectly appropriate. They play GSTQ at the FA Cup Final, but not at every premier league game.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 05, 2015, 01:15:19 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 05, 2015, 01:07:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 03, 2015, 03:07:50 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 03, 2015, 11:48:30 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 09:56:20 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 29, 2015, 06:04:20 PM
Pleasantly surprised to see such agreement with Jarlath's proposal. Apart from the potential to make the GAA more appealing to some (others will never embrace it, and we should spend little time trying to accommodate them) the flag and anthem add little as it is.
Only seeing this now, hence my late reply. Your statement is simply bollocks. As a player, standing for the anthem before a game is a very proud moment for me and most certainly adds to the occasion. You certainly don't speak for all gaels with this.
I never claimed to speak for anyone other than myself, so calm yourself.
In your opinion, the flag and anthem add nothing. That carries a little less weight than your previous announcement. In my opinion they add a great deal.
Good for you.
Sneering and condescension. A fellow GAA member says that they, in fact, think that the flag and anthem are a good thing and the games would be lessened without it and that's your response. Definitely seems to be a common trait among the 'reform' group.
The thing is, it's probably one of the reasons that the attempts at reform will fail. People don't follow a sneering smartarse with a superiority complex (see Burns). They much prefer someone with a strong belief in something who's not afraid to show it passionately. Actually, that's probably why the SDLP find themselves in the mire they are currently in.
I agree that the anthem adds to the sense of occasion at a big game. I also agree with those who say it is flogged, being played at every league game and the like. However I wouldn't like to get rid of it entirely. County Finals, Provincial Finals, All Ireland Finals, I think it is perfectly appropriate. They play GSTQ at the FA Cup Final, but not at every premier league game.
I'm in agreement with that. I'd actually be happy if it was just limited to finals.
This thing is, whilst I believe that a complete removal of these trappings will have negligible effect on playing numbers among the unionist community, a partial removal would IMO be a total waste of time. If they are there at any time they may as well be there every time.
Quote from: Franko on October 05, 2015, 03:26:52 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 05, 2015, 01:15:19 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 05, 2015, 01:07:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 03, 2015, 03:07:50 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 03, 2015, 11:48:30 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 09:56:20 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 29, 2015, 06:04:20 PM
Pleasantly surprised to see such agreement with Jarlath's proposal. Apart from the potential to make the GAA more appealing to some (others will never embrace it, and we should spend little time trying to accommodate them) the flag and anthem add little as it is.
Only seeing this now, hence my late reply. Your statement is simply bollocks. As a player, standing for the anthem before a game is a very proud moment for me and most certainly adds to the occasion. You certainly don't speak for all gaels with this.
I never claimed to speak for anyone other than myself, so calm yourself.
In your opinion, the flag and anthem add nothing. That carries a little less weight than your previous announcement. In my opinion they add a great deal.
Good for you.
Sneering and condescension. A fellow GAA member says that they, in fact, think that the flag and anthem are a good thing and the games would be lessened without it and that's your response. Definitely seems to be a common trait among the 'reform' group.
The thing is, it's probably one of the reasons that the attempts at reform will fail. People don't follow a sneering smartarse with a superiority complex (see Burns). They much prefer someone with a strong belief in something who's not afraid to show it passionately. Actually, that's probably why the SDLP find themselves in the mire they are currently in.
I agree that the anthem adds to the sense of occasion at a big game. I also agree with those who say it is flogged, being played at every league game and the like. However I wouldn't like to get rid of it entirely. County Finals, Provincial Finals, All Ireland Finals, I think it is perfectly appropriate. They play GSTQ at the FA Cup Final, but not at every premier league game.
I'm in agreement with that. I'd actually be happy if it was just limited to finals.
This thing is, whilst I believe that a complete removal of these trappings will have negligible effect on playing numbers among the unionist community, a partial removal would IMO be a total waste of time. If they are there at any time they may as well be there every time.
Hard enough to get All Ireland tickets without getting thousands more involved :-[
Quote from: Franko on October 05, 2015, 01:07:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 03, 2015, 03:07:50 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 03, 2015, 11:48:30 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 09:56:20 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 29, 2015, 06:04:20 PM
Pleasantly surprised to see such agreement with Jarlath's proposal. Apart from the potential to make the GAA more appealing to some (others will never embrace it, and we should spend little time trying to accommodate them) the flag and anthem add little as it is.
Only seeing this now, hence my late reply. Your statement is simply bollocks. As a player, standing for the anthem before a game is a very proud moment for me and most certainly adds to the occasion. You certainly don't speak for all gaels with this.
I never claimed to speak for anyone other than myself, so calm yourself.
In your opinion, the flag and anthem add nothing. That carries a little less weight than your previous announcement. In my opinion they add a great deal.
Good for you.
Sneering and condescension. A fellow GAA member says that they, in fact, think that the flag and anthem are a good thing and the games would be lessened without it and that's your response. Definitely seems to be a common trait among the 'reform' group.
The thing is, it's probably one of the reasons that the attempts at reform will fail. People don't follow a sneering smartarse with a superiority complex (see Burns). They much prefer someone with a strong belief in something who's not afraid to show it passionately. Actually, that's probably why the SDLP find themselves in the mire they are currently in.
Hmmm, so, i'm accused of "sneering and condescention" by someone who opened the exchange with "Your statement is simply bollocks".... and who refers to someone else as "sneering smartarse with a superiority complex"...
Wrong side of the bed again it seems ::)
Quote from: Franko on October 05, 2015, 03:26:52 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 05, 2015, 01:15:19 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 05, 2015, 01:07:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 03, 2015, 03:07:50 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 03, 2015, 11:48:30 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 09:56:20 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 29, 2015, 06:04:20 PM
Pleasantly surprised to see such agreement with Jarlath's proposal. Apart from the potential to make the GAA more appealing to some (others will never embrace it, and we should spend little time trying to accommodate them) the flag and anthem add little as it is.
Only seeing this now, hence my late reply. Your statement is simply bollocks. As a player, standing for the anthem before a game is a very proud moment for me and most certainly adds to the occasion. You certainly don't speak for all gaels with this.
I never claimed to speak for anyone other than myself, so calm yourself.
In your opinion, the flag and anthem add nothing. That carries a little less weight than your previous announcement. In my opinion they add a great deal.
Good for you.
Sneering and condescension. A fellow GAA member says that they, in fact, think that the flag and anthem are a good thing and the games would be lessened without it and that's your response. Definitely seems to be a common trait among the 'reform' group.
The thing is, it's probably one of the reasons that the attempts at reform will fail. People don't follow a sneering smartarse with a superiority complex (see Burns). They much prefer someone with a strong belief in something who's not afraid to show it passionately. Actually, that's probably why the SDLP find themselves in the mire they are currently in.
I agree that the anthem adds to the sense of occasion at a big game. I also agree with those who say it is flogged, being played at every league game and the like. However I wouldn't like to get rid of it entirely. County Finals, Provincial Finals, All Ireland Finals, I think it is perfectly appropriate. They play GSTQ at the FA Cup Final, but not at every premier league game.
I'm in agreement with that. I'd actually be happy if it was just limited to finals.
This thing is, whilst I believe that a complete removal of these trappings will have negligible effect on playing numbers among the unionist community, a partial removal would IMO be a total waste of time. If they are there at any time they may as well be there every time.
I actually agree with you on this point. It's either all or nothing if the motivation is to reach out to protestants/unionists.
But there are other arguments to restrict it to finals that have a lot of validity.
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 05, 2015, 06:32:59 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 05, 2015, 01:07:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 03, 2015, 03:07:50 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 03, 2015, 11:48:30 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 09:56:20 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 29, 2015, 06:04:20 PM
Pleasantly surprised to see such agreement with Jarlath's proposal. Apart from the potential to make the GAA more appealing to some (others will never embrace it, and we should spend little time trying to accommodate them) the flag and anthem add little as it is.
Only seeing this now, hence my late reply. Your statement is simply bollocks. As a player, standing for the anthem before a game is a very proud moment for me and most certainly adds to the occasion. You certainly don't speak for all gaels with this.
I never claimed to speak for anyone other than myself, so calm yourself.
In your opinion, the flag and anthem add nothing. That carries a little less weight than your previous announcement. In my opinion they add a great deal.
Good for you.
Sneering and condescension. A fellow GAA member says that they, in fact, think that the flag and anthem are a good thing and the games would be lessened without it and that's your response. Definitely seems to be a common trait among the 'reform' group.
The thing is, it's probably one of the reasons that the attempts at reform will fail. People don't follow a sneering smartarse with a superiority complex (see Burns). They much prefer someone with a strong belief in something who's not afraid to show it passionately. Actually, that's probably why the SDLP find themselves in the mire they are currently in.
Hmmm, so, i'm accused of "sneering and condescention" by someone who opened the exchange with "Your statement is simply bollocks".... and who refers to someone else as "sneering smartarse with a superiority complex"...
You stated, as fact, that the flag and anthem 'add little'. You didn't say it was your opinion, you just stated it as fact. I pointed out that plenty of people disagree with this (many have come out and said so on this thread). I could have put it in less blunt terms but your statement was 'bollocks'. There's no sneering or condescension in that.
A new thread was created for this but I think it belongs here. Sums up my feelings perfectly. Joe's (anecdotal) evidence of the number of Protestant players on underage teams in Belfast and Ballymena would indicate that the GAA's outreach programmes are working just fine. Just because you refuse to pander to bigots doesn't make you a bigot yourself.
PS. The title is terrible.
Joe Brolly: How I faced down IRA man who branded me a traitor
In 2008, Martin McAleese, husband of then President Mary, attended a meeting between Loyalist commanders and community leaders in Belfast. Ryan Feeney, a high ranking member of the Ulster Council of the GAA, was also in attendance.
The Loyalists were interested in the GAA's community model and how it could help regenerate Protestant ghettoes in the city. The summit took place in the community centre on the Shankill Road.
After Martin and Ryan had made a lengthy presentation, the two men shared some tea and buns with the group. Jackie McDonald, the notorious UDA brigadier, warmly shook their hands. "Great to have you here," he said. "Thanks Jackie," said Feeney, "I wonder what would have happened if we'd come here ten years ago?" Jackie looked Feeney straight in the eye and said, "We'd have shot you and kidnapped him."
I thought of that exchange earlier last week when Jarlath Burns described the national anthem and the tricolour as "divisive" and said he would support giving them up at GAA games if it would help to persuade some Unionists to support us.
"It wouldn't cost me a thought," he said. "If I thought for a moment that Ulster Unionist MLA Tom Elliott would become our greatest fan, I would get rid of them surely." It is worth reminding ourselves that Tom is the man who proudly boasted at his party conference in 2010 that he would "never go to a GAA game or a gay march."
The reality is that no appeasement would satisfy the Tom Elliotts of this world. The whole point of a civilised society is to respect difference, not abandon what we are in order to satisfy extremists. The world is awash with political correctness. Its main function is to make us feel embarrassed about who we are and what we think, and to create a world that is entirely bland.
A few years ago, Flintshire County Council in Wales renamed the traditional English dessert Spotted Richard on the basis that Spotted Dick might offend female customers at the canteen. Tesco and the Gloucester NHS Trust followed suit. Where does it end?
The Sam Maguire Cup would have to go. Maguire, after all, was a member of a team of IRB assassins in London. As head of intelligence there, he was the alleged mastermind behind the murder of Sir Henry Wilson in London in 1922. Glorifying the memory of a man who put bullets in the brains of Englishmen just isn't on. I think perhaps that in future, it would be safer to call the trophy the Jedward Cup.
And what of all those hundreds of GAA clubs that glorify terrorists? There are O'Donovan Rossas all over the country. Bad enough that Rossa was married three times and had 16 children. Worse still, he was the first Republican to orchestrate a bombing campaign on the British mainland. His so-called 'Dynamite Campaign' ran throughout the 1880s in London, bringing terror to the populace. Or Roger Casement, who gives his name to many clubs and the iconic Belfast venue. Casement was a gun runner and a rebel who was executed by the British during the Great War and buried in lime. In 1965, his remains were repatriated to Ireland and he was afforded a State funeral. Almost half a million people filed past his coffin.
As for the anthem, Phil Coulter or Stock Aitken Waterman could write one for us.
After we won the All-Ireland in 1993, we sang 'The Town I Loved So Well' on The Late Late Show. A fortnight later, Phil Coulter arrived at a team meeting wearing a lime green suit and lemon tie and presented us all with a signed photograph of himself at the grand piano. That's the sort of man we need to write a national anthem.
I don't suppose there is any point in explaining that the Tricolour denotes peace between the orange and the green. It'll have to go as well. Perhaps we could replace it with a plain white flag, or one with a little kitten.
The GAA does not need to apologise to anyone. My own club St Brigid's were the first to play the PSNI. At that time, it was a thorny issue and we played them amidst a media carnival. I gave interviews to all the broadcasters strongly supporting the game. Afterwards, we ate and drank with the coppers in the clubhouse, and why wouldn't we?
A few days later, graffiti appeared in Belfast city centre reading, 'SHAME ON YOU JOE'. That same afternoon, I was walking through the thronged great hall of the High Courts when someone shouted "Brolly you traitor."
I looked over and spotted an ex-IRA man sitting with some other boys of the old brigade. I made a beeline for them and the heads went down.
"What was that Seán?" I said, shaking hands with them, "I didn't hear you properly."
"I said you were a traitor," he mumbled.
"Jesus Seán," I said, " I thought it was ok to play an oul football match against them after you handed over your guns."
The GAA in Ulster has been doing massive work on reconciliation. Joint GAA, rugby and soccer camps have been on the go for years. In my own club we have mixed teams at every level. My under 16 group this year had seven players from the Unionist tradition and, you know what, nobody gives a damn what religion they happen to be. The brilliant All Saints Ballymena under 14 feile champions from 2014 had six Protestant players in their starting 15. There is a similar pattern at every age group. This is real reconciliation, not the phoney kind demanded publicly by Tom Elliott or Willie Frazer.
Before Martin McAleese and Ryan Feeney left that meeting in the Shankill Community Centre back in 2008, they arranged to bring the group to the upcoming All-Ireland hurling semi-final. Four weeks later, a coach pulled up at the centre in Belfast and 50 Loyalists from Tiger's Bay, the Shankill and Lurgan trooped on board to be greeted by Ryan. One of them was wearing a Dublin jersey.
"You like it?" he said to Feeney, "Up the Dubs!"
After the game, in the splendid surrounds of the VIP suite of the Hogan Stand, Ryan asked the leader of the group what his overall thoughts on the experience were.
"We need a Protestant GAA."
Now that is a good idea.
So based on experiences at an exclusively middle class club in south Belfast (really breaking down the barriers there eh joe?), plus a handful in Ballymena (actually kinda impressed with that one) means the GAA outreach is working?
If we were to see those sort of numbers at senior level there might be some merit to it. The fact is there is a mountain of work to be done in this area, and before anyone jumps down my throat for wanting to appease the nutters, Tom Elliot and co can kindly F off if they go out of their way to despise every aspect of the GAA.
Quote from: general_lee on October 06, 2015, 11:35:39 AM
So based on experiences at an exclusively middle class club in south Belfast (really breaking down the barriers there eh joe?), plus a handful in Ballymena (actually kinda impressed with that one) means the GAA outreach is working?
If we were to see those sort of numbers at senior level there might be some merit to it. The fact is there is a mountain of work to be done in this area, and before anyone jumps down my throat for wanting to appease the nutters, Tom Elliot and co can kindly F off if they go out of their way to despise every aspect of the GAA.
Ah c'mon - you won't see clubs recruiting senior players straight out. Underage is where it starts. You wouldn't see too many clubs with players from a nationalist background on their senior squads who had never played gaelic games before.
Quote from: Franko on October 06, 2015, 12:34:55 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 06, 2015, 11:35:39 AM
So based on experiences at an exclusively middle class club in south Belfast (really breaking down the barriers there eh joe?), plus a handful in Ballymena (actually kinda impressed with that one) means the GAA outreach is working?
If we were to see those sort of numbers at senior level there might be some merit to it. The fact is there is a mountain of work to be done in this area, and before anyone jumps down my throat for wanting to appease the nutters, Tom Elliot and co can kindly F off if they go out of their way to despise every aspect of the GAA.
Ah c'mon - you won't see clubs recruiting senior players straight out. Underage is where it starts. You wouldn't see too many clubs with players from a nationalist background on their senior squads who had never played gaelic games before.
What a stupid comment.
You won't see many/any Protestant kids playing for clubs anywhere in the north fullstop. St Brigids are an upper middle class, non-offensive club compiled of well to do professionals in South Belfast.
Brolley can pull 2 ridiculous examples out of his head if he wants but its complete rubbish.
Quote from: redhandefender on October 06, 2015, 12:43:19 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 06, 2015, 12:34:55 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 06, 2015, 11:35:39 AM
So based on experiences at an exclusively middle class club in south Belfast (really breaking down the barriers there eh joe?), plus a handful in Ballymena (actually kinda impressed with that one) means the GAA outreach is working?
If we were to see those sort of numbers at senior level there might be some merit to it. The fact is there is a mountain of work to be done in this area, and before anyone jumps down my throat for wanting to appease the nutters, Tom Elliot and co can kindly F off if they go out of their way to despise every aspect of the GAA.
Ah c'mon - you won't see clubs recruiting senior players straight out. Underage is where it starts. You wouldn't see too many clubs with players from a nationalist background on their senior squads who had never played gaelic games before.
What a stupid comment.
You won't see many/any Protestant kids playing for clubs anywhere in the north fullstop. St Brigids are an upper middle class, non-offensive club compiled of well to do professionals in South Belfast.
Brolley can pull 2 ridiculous examples out of his head if he wants but its complete rubbish.
Brolly gave 2 examples. I know of at least one club in Derry where it's happening. I'm sure others could put forward further examples. The facts are there, you can choose to ignore them if you wish but they won't change.
Quote from: Franko on October 06, 2015, 12:34:55 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 06, 2015, 11:35:39 AM
So based on experiences at an exclusively middle class club in south Belfast (really breaking down the barriers there eh joe?), plus a handful in Ballymena (actually kinda impressed with that one) means the GAA outreach is working?
If we were to see those sort of numbers at senior level there might be some merit to it. The fact is there is a mountain of work to be done in this area, and before anyone jumps down my throat for wanting to appease the nutters, Tom Elliot and co can kindly F off if they go out of their way to despise every aspect of the GAA.
Ah c'mon - you won't see clubs recruiting senior players straight out. Underage is where it starts. You wouldn't see too many clubs with players from a nationalist background on their senior squads who had never played gaelic games before.
I mean are these young players being retained? do they stay? This is what I would judge "unionist outreach" on. Kids will pretty much do anything you tell them with things like this and they more than likely don't fully understand some of the trappings that come with the GAA. When Ballymena or any other club have 7 Protestants on their senior panel I'll be really impressed. Not to take away from them or St Brigids or the Derry club you have in mind (I could probably guess who), I think it's great, it shows that they have fostered good relations in the community and have gained respect of people from all sides. For most clubs though it wouldn't be that easy, in fact I'd say many would struggle, and a few might even have no interest. I wonder is there any actual protocol for clubs to follow in this regard?
Do any integrated schools have GAA teams?
I would imagine that more integrated schools is helping here.
Quote from: general_lee on October 06, 2015, 01:33:28 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 06, 2015, 12:34:55 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 06, 2015, 11:35:39 AM
So based on experiences at an exclusively middle class club in south Belfast (really breaking down the barriers there eh joe?), plus a handful in Ballymena (actually kinda impressed with that one) means the GAA outreach is working?
If we were to see those sort of numbers at senior level there might be some merit to it. The fact is there is a mountain of work to be done in this area, and before anyone jumps down my throat for wanting to appease the nutters, Tom Elliot and co can kindly F off if they go out of their way to despise every aspect of the GAA.
Ah c'mon - you won't see clubs recruiting senior players straight out. Underage is where it starts. You wouldn't see too many clubs with players from a nationalist background on their senior squads who had never played gaelic games before.
I mean are these young players being retained? do they stay? This is what I would judge "unionist outreach" on. Kids will pretty much do anything you tell them with things like this and they more than likely don't fully understand some of the trappings that come with the GAA. When Ballymena or any other club have 7 Protestants on their senior panel I'll be really impressed. Not to take away from them or St Brigids or the Derry club you have in mind (I could probably guess who), I think it's great, it shows that they have fostered good relations in the community and have gained respect of people from all sides. For most clubs though it wouldn't be that easy, in fact I'd say many would struggle, and a few might even have no interest. I wonder is there any actual protocol for clubs to follow in this regard?
I think it's too early to tell if they've been retained or not. This is all relatively new - if you'd mentioned GAA outreach to Unionists 20 years ago you'd have been laughed out of it. It's a slow process. However, these young kids won't be doing anything without their parents' consent so the support of the parents is obviously there.
As far as official protocol, I don't think so. The nearest thing I know of are initiatives such as those below.
http://ulster.gaa.ie/community/community-outreach/
Quote from: Franko on October 06, 2015, 01:48:53 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 06, 2015, 01:33:28 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 06, 2015, 12:34:55 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 06, 2015, 11:35:39 AM
So based on experiences at an exclusively middle class club in south Belfast (really breaking down the barriers there eh joe?), plus a handful in Ballymena (actually kinda impressed with that one) means the GAA outreach is working?
If we were to see those sort of numbers at senior level there might be some merit to it. The fact is there is a mountain of work to be done in this area, and before anyone jumps down my throat for wanting to appease the nutters, Tom Elliot and co can kindly F off if they go out of their way to despise every aspect of the GAA.
Ah c'mon - you won't see clubs recruiting senior players straight out. Underage is where it starts. You wouldn't see too many clubs with players from a nationalist background on their senior squads who had never played gaelic games before.
I mean are these young players being retained? do they stay? This is what I would judge "unionist outreach" on. Kids will pretty much do anything you tell them with things like this and they more than likely don't fully understand some of the trappings that come with the GAA. When Ballymena or any other club have 7 Protestants on their senior panel I'll be really impressed. Not to take away from them or St Brigids or the Derry club you have in mind (I could probably guess who), I think it's great, it shows that they have fostered good relations in the community and have gained respect of people from all sides. For most clubs though it wouldn't be that easy, in fact I'd say many would struggle, and a few might even have no interest. I wonder is there any actual protocol for clubs to follow in this regard?
I think it's too early to tell if they've been retained or not. This is all relatively new - if you'd mentioned GAA outreach to Unionists 20 years ago you'd have been laughed out of it. It's a slow process. However, these young kids won't be doing anything without their parents' consent so the support of the parents is obviously there.
As far as official protocol, I don't think so. The nearest thing I know of are initiatives such as those below.
http://ulster.gaa.ie/community/community-outreach/
You'd still get laughed at from some quarters... I had that link in mind as I looked at it earlier this morning, the Cuchulainn experiment has been going from at least 2007 and it looks like the web page hasn't been updated much since. Imo the things listed there aren't enough. We can't just rely on a select few schools partnering up and being given a few months football/hurling exposure, nor can we just rely on a small number of clubs sporadically encouraging people from non-Nationalist backgrounds to play our games
Quote from: general_lee on October 06, 2015, 02:07:39 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 06, 2015, 01:48:53 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 06, 2015, 01:33:28 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 06, 2015, 12:34:55 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 06, 2015, 11:35:39 AM
So based on experiences at an exclusively middle class club in south Belfast (really breaking down the barriers there eh joe?), plus a handful in Ballymena (actually kinda impressed with that one) means the GAA outreach is working?
If we were to see those sort of numbers at senior level there might be some merit to it. The fact is there is a mountain of work to be done in this area, and before anyone jumps down my throat for wanting to appease the nutters, Tom Elliot and co can kindly F off if they go out of their way to despise every aspect of the GAA.
Ah c'mon - you won't see clubs recruiting senior players straight out. Underage is where it starts. You wouldn't see too many clubs with players from a nationalist background on their senior squads who had never played gaelic games before.
I mean are these young players being retained? do they stay? This is what I would judge "unionist outreach" on. Kids will pretty much do anything you tell them with things like this and they more than likely don't fully understand some of the trappings that come with the GAA. When Ballymena or any other club have 7 Protestants on their senior panel I'll be really impressed. Not to take away from them or St Brigids or the Derry club you have in mind (I could probably guess who), I think it's great, it shows that they have fostered good relations in the community and have gained respect of people from all sides. For most clubs though it wouldn't be that easy, in fact I'd say many would struggle, and a few might even have no interest. I wonder is there any actual protocol for clubs to follow in this regard?
I think it's too early to tell if they've been retained or not. This is all relatively new - if you'd mentioned GAA outreach to Unionists 20 years ago you'd have been laughed out of it. It's a slow process. However, these young kids won't be doing anything without their parents' consent so the support of the parents is obviously there.
As far as official protocol, I don't think so. The nearest thing I know of are initiatives such as those below.
http://ulster.gaa.ie/community/community-outreach/
You'd still get laughed at from some quarters... I had that link in mind as I looked at it earlier this morning, the Cuchulainn experiment has been going from at least 2007 and it looks like the web page hasn't been updated much since. Imo the things listed there aren't enough. We can't just rely on a select few schools partnering up and being given a few months football/hurling exposure, nor can we just rely on a small number of clubs sporadically encouraging people from non-Nationalist backgrounds to play our games
Here are a few links from the Ulster GAA website showcasing various initiatives/events which are of a cross community nature. This is only the info I gained from taking 5 minutes and going through the Ulster GAA press releases. There are many things like this going on on a weekly basis which are never publicised outside of local areas.
September 2015
http://ulster.gaa.ie/2015/09/sport-uniting-communities-showcase-event/
July 2015
http://ulster.gaa.ie/2015/07/roe-valley-cuchulainns-reach-abc-final/
June 2105
http://ulster.gaa.ie/2015/06/integrated-schools-hurling-blitz/
April 2015
http://ulster.gaa.ie/2015/04/roe-valley-crowned-2015-cuchulainn-cup-champions/
February 2015
http://ulster.gaa.ie/2015/02/three-sporting-governing-bodies-announce-impact-dcal-funded-programme/
Nov 2014
http://ulster.gaa.ie/2014/11/three-sports-commit-to-tackle-bullying-now-2/
The GAA have moved a great deal in recent years. The removal of 'active' discriminatory rules like 21 and 42 were a massive step forward and were welcomed by most.
Where I draw the line is the removal of 'passive' things which a good proportion of the players/membership deem to enhance our games in order to pander to a section of our society which I believe will simply never accept the GAA. Burns use of Elliot was unfortunate, given Elliot's previous statements on 'never' attending a GAA game.
Quote from: Franko on October 06, 2015, 10:50:43 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 05, 2015, 06:32:59 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 05, 2015, 01:07:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 03, 2015, 03:07:50 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 03, 2015, 11:48:30 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2015, 09:56:20 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 29, 2015, 06:04:20 PM
Pleasantly surprised to see such agreement with Jarlath's proposal. Apart from the potential to make the GAA more appealing to some (others will never embrace it, and we should spend little time trying to accommodate them) the flag and anthem add little as it is.
Only seeing this now, hence my late reply. Your statement is simply bollocks. As a player, standing for the anthem before a game is a very proud moment for me and most certainly adds to the occasion. You certainly don't speak for all gaels with this.
I never claimed to speak for anyone other than myself, so calm yourself.
In your opinion, the flag and anthem add nothing. That carries a little less weight than your previous announcement. In my opinion they add a great deal.
Good for you.
Sneering and condescension. A fellow GAA member says that they, in fact, think that the flag and anthem are a good thing and the games would be lessened without it and that's your response. Definitely seems to be a common trait among the 'reform' group.
The thing is, it's probably one of the reasons that the attempts at reform will fail. People don't follow a sneering smartarse with a superiority complex (see Burns). They much prefer someone with a strong belief in something who's not afraid to show it passionately. Actually, that's probably why the SDLP find themselves in the mire they are currently in.
Hmmm, so, i'm accused of "sneering and condescention" by someone who opened the exchange with "Your statement is simply bollocks".... and who refers to someone else as "sneering smartarse with a superiority complex"...
You stated, as fact, that the flag and anthem 'add little'. You didn't say it was your opinion, you just stated it as fact. I pointed out that plenty of people disagree with this (many have come out and said so on this thread). I could have put it in less blunt terms but your statement was 'bollocks'. There's no sneering or condescension in that.
I didn't state it as fact. It's
obviously my opinion. How could it be a 'fact' when it's a subjective matter?
Do you need every sentence to start with "in my opinion..."?
Here's the actual interview. He doesn't call for anything actually, which makes the thread title quite misleading. Quite a measured response to pressure questioning if you ask me.
Typical Mallie. Not a clue about the GAA as his questioning shows. Has spent too much time away from South Armagh. Hard to believe from their accents that they were brought up in the same village.
http://www.irishtv.ie/eamonn-mallie-meets-jarlath-burns
I'd expect those protestants who would respond to outreach initiatives would not have any issue with the emblems, much in the same way as most Ulster rugby followers had no issue with the tricolour or anthem. Those who might demand the abandonment of tricolour and anthem to appease protestants are the same people who will tell you if Catholics don't like to stand for GSTQ at N.I. matches, they can choose not to go.
Agreed progressive nationalism is ok with their stuff and ok with our stuff. Everyone has a past and we all have a future..
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 06, 2015, 01:37:44 PM
Do any integrated schools have GAA teams?
I would imagine that more integrated schools is helping here.
My son is in 4th year at an integrated school. In that time they have played one match. There is not enough interest within the nationalist kids in the school never mind the unionists. They have a very successful soccer team which is well represented by catholic lads. It's our own community we need to be outreaching too for players as well as unionists. At under 16 level here we have an amalgamation of 4 clubs. 35 lads at training at start of the year. Loads have quit because they can't get any football.
Quote from: charlieTully on October 09, 2015, 10:19:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 06, 2015, 01:37:44 PM
Do any integrated schools have GAA teams?
I would imagine that more integrated schools is helping here.
My son is in 4th year at an integrated school. In that time they have played one match. There is not enough interest within the nationalist kids in the school never mind the unionists. They have a very successful soccer team which is well represented by catholic lads. It's our own community we need to be outreaching too for players as well as unionists. At under 16 level here we have an amalgamation of 4 clubs. 35 lads at training at start of the year. Loads have quit because they can't get any football.
Why the need to amalgamate then if you have the nr's?
Quote from: doodaa on October 09, 2015, 12:15:14 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on October 09, 2015, 10:19:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 06, 2015, 01:37:44 PM
Do any integrated schools have GAA teams?
I would imagine that more integrated schools is helping here.
My son is in 4th year at an integrated school. In that time they have played one match. There is not enough interest within the nationalist kids in the school never mind the unionists. They have a very successful soccer team which is well represented by catholic lads. It's our own community we need to be outreaching too for players as well as unionists. At under 16 level here we have an amalgamation of 4 clubs. 35 lads at training at start of the year. Loads have quit because they can't get any football.
Why the need to amalgamate then if you have the nr's?
the individual clubs don't have the numbers but four together have far too many. I don't understand the thinking behind it at all. an amalgamation of 2 clubs yes but four is crazy.
Quote from: charlieTully on October 09, 2015, 01:28:13 PM
Quote from: doodaa on October 09, 2015, 12:15:14 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on October 09, 2015, 10:19:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 06, 2015, 01:37:44 PM
Do any integrated schools have GAA teams?
I would imagine that more integrated schools is helping here.
My son is in 4th year at an integrated school. In that time they have played one match. There is not enough interest within the nationalist kids in the school never mind the unionists. They have a very successful soccer team which is well represented by catholic lads. It's our own community we need to be outreaching too for players as well as unionists. At under 16 level here we have an amalgamation of 4 clubs. 35 lads at training at start of the year. Loads have quit because they can't get any football.
Why the need to amalgamate then if you have the nr's?
the individual clubs don't have the numbers but four together have far too many. I don't understand the thinking behind it at all. an amalgamation of 2 clubs yes but four is crazy.
It is crazy lol
As you say 2 clubs merging would have been fine it seems.
As someone new to showing an interest in GAA in the last few years I have to say I welcome Jarlath's comments. I come from Co Armagh and grew up with no knowledge of the Sport. Having seen however through my Career the huge benefits that GAA can have on young people I have toyed with the idea of getting My own children involved in Our local club.
I have to say however my concern is whether it would encompass any political outlook. I have no interest in my Children attending sports clubs with flags etc and have been lucky in that the coaching or clubs in other sports they have went to have involved none of this. I fully expected GAA to be the same however having families members attend a GAA awards night at a different club I noticed Tricolours up for the Childrens ceremony. Would this be the norm in most clubs?
Quote from: Tothefuture on October 30, 2015, 12:29:25 PM
As someone new to showing an interest in GAA in the last few years I have to say I welcome Jarlath's comments. I come from Co Armagh and grew up with no knowledge of the Sport. Having seen however through my Career the huge benefits that GAA can have on young people I have toyed with the idea of getting My own children involved in Our local club.
I have to say however my concern is whether it would encompass any political outlook. I have no interest in my Children attending sports clubs with flags etc and have been lucky in that the coaching or clubs in other sports they have went to have involved none of this. I fully expected GAA to be the same however having families members attend a GAA awards night at a different club I noticed Tricolours up for the Childrens ceremony. Would this be the norm in most clubs?
I think you are someone 'old' i.e. not a newbie.
Quote from: Aristo 60 on October 30, 2015, 12:58:12 PM
Quote from: Tothefuture on October 30, 2015, 12:29:25 PM
As someone new to showing an interest in GAA in the last few years I have to say I welcome Jarlath's comments. I come from Co Armagh and grew up with no knowledge of the Sport. Having seen however through my Career the huge benefits that GAA can have on young people I have toyed with the idea of getting My own children involved in Our local club.
I have to say however my concern is whether it would encompass any political outlook. I have no interest in my Children attending sports clubs with flags etc and have been lucky in that the coaching or clubs in other sports they have went to have involved none of this. I fully expected GAA to be the same however having families members attend a GAA awards night at a different club I noticed Tricolours up for the Childrens ceremony. Would this be the norm in most clubs?
What
I think you are someone 'old' i.e. not a newbie.
I don't get it?
Quote from: Tothefuture on October 30, 2015, 12:29:25 PM
As someone new to showing an interest in GAA in the last few years I have to say I welcome Jarlath's comments. I come from Co Armagh and grew up with no knowledge of the Sport. Having seen however through my Career the huge benefits that GAA can have on young people I have toyed with the idea of getting My own children involved in Our local club.
I have to say however my concern is whether it would encompass any political outlook. I have no interest in my Children attending sports clubs with flags etc and have been lucky in that the coaching or clubs in other sports they have went to have involved none of this. I fully expected GAA to be the same however having families members attend a GAA awards night at a different club I noticed Tricolours up for the Childrens ceremony. Would this be the norm in most clubs?
It would not be the norm in clubs, however Irish Culture and a nationalist outlook would be in the make up of most clubs. They would also tend to be respectful of members of the protestant tradition.
Quote from: Tothefuture on October 30, 2015, 12:29:25 PM
As someone new to showing an interest in GAA in the last few years I have to say I welcome Jarlath's comments. I come from Co Armagh and grew up with no knowledge of the Sport. Having seen however through my Career the huge benefits that GAA can have on young people I have toyed with the idea of getting My own children involved in Our local club.
I have to say however my concern is whether it would encompass any political outlook. I have no interest in my Children attending sports clubs with flags etc and have been lucky in that the coaching or clubs in other sports they have went to have involved none of this. I fully expected GAA to be the same however having families members attend a GAA awards night at a different club I noticed Tricolours up for the Childrens ceremony. Would this be the norm in most clubs?
No a gaa club is as apolitical an organisation as you will probably see throughout ni. Just case away any hang ups ye might have in yer own head. Welcome aboard and start improving your kids lifestyle now!!
I haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if these have been asked already.
1. What is the purpose of playing the national anthem before games?
2. What is the flag flown for?
Back in the day as a way of proving we weren't just regional British people.
Now only some of us are regional British people.
For the rest the flag and anthem represent something bringing everyone together before the two teams start tearing strips off each other.
Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2015, 02:54:29 PM
I haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if these have been asked already.
1. What is the purpose of playing the national anthem before games?
2. What is the flag flown for?
We forgive you.
Quote from: rrhf on November 01, 2015, 08:25:34 AM
Quote from: Tothefuture on October 30, 2015, 12:29:25 PM
As someone new to showing an interest in GAA in the last few years I have to say I welcome Jarlath's comments. I come from Co Armagh and grew up with no knowledge of the Sport. Having seen however through my Career the huge benefits that GAA can have on young people I have toyed with the idea of getting My own children involved in Our local club.
I have to say however my concern is whether it would encompass any political outlook. I have no interest in my Children attending sports clubs with flags etc and have been lucky in that the coaching or clubs in other sports they have went to have involved none of this. I fully expected GAA to be the same however having families members attend a GAA awards night at a different club I noticed Tricolours up for the Childrens ceremony. Would this be the norm in most clubs?
No a gaa club is as apolitical an organisation as you will probably see throughout ni. Just case away any hang ups ye might have in yer own head. Welcome aboard and start improving your kids lifestyle now!!
Thanks for the reply, Ill head myself to a club game and take it from there.
Quote from: Tothefuture on October 30, 2015, 01:00:26 PM
I don't get it?
He's accusing you of being a sock puppet of an existing contributor. Some people around here think it's customary to be unfriendly to newcomers, and this is often reflected in their attitude to attracting protestants into the game.
To address your concerns, there are nuances in the GAA. Some clubs might have a lot of members who are politically minded, others are only interested in the game.
There is zero triumphalism involved in flying the tri colour or playing the national anthem inside a gaa ground.
Parading behind a band and playing the national anthem at the more important games adds that bit of pomp and ceremony to the occasion. That's about the height of it.
Any nationalist would want the Orange and Green to find a togetherness. The GAA is a fantastic local resource that could help break down a lot of barriers and improve community adhesion.
Quote from: theskull1 on November 03, 2015, 08:22:47 AM
There is zero triumphalism involved in flying the tri colour or playing the national anthem inside a gaa ground.
Parading behind a band and playing the national anthem at the more important games adds that bit of pomp and ceremony to the occasion. That's about the height of it.
Any nationalist would want the Orange and Green to find a togetherness. The GAA is a fantastic local resource that could help break down a lot of barriers and improve community adhesion.
Agreed. It is amazing at kids matches in Dublin to hear the Mammies & Daddies shouting in different languages.
Quote from: theskull1 on November 03, 2015, 08:22:47 AM
There is zero triumphalism involved in flying the tri colour or playing the national anthem inside a gaa ground.
Parading behind a band and playing the national anthem at the more important games adds that bit of pomp and ceremony to the occasion. That's about the height of it.
Any nationalist would want the Orange and Green to find a togetherness. The GAA is a fantastic local resource that could help break down a lot of barriers and improve community adhesion.
I can definitely see how community based an organisation it is. I do however feel that the organisation if it really wanted to reach out could do more. I don't mean to be having a go, in my life I have never been encouraged by the organisation to come and give it a go and my local club is a mile out the road.
One man's having never been encouraged is another man's not ramming it down their throat. So hard to get the subtleties right to suit (or indeed not offend a population where many 'can' be easily annoyed) and not get dragged in to the mire of political debate.
Quote from: Tothefuture on November 03, 2015, 06:19:18 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 03, 2015, 08:22:47 AM
There is zero triumphalism involved in flying the tri colour or playing the national anthem inside a gaa ground.
Parading behind a band and playing the national anthem at the more important games adds that bit of pomp and ceremony to the occasion. That's about the height of it.
Any nationalist would want the Orange and Green to find a togetherness. The GAA is a fantastic local resource that could help break down a lot of barriers and improve community adhesion.
I can definitely see how community based an organisation it is. I do however feel that the organisation if it really wanted to reach out could do more. I don't mean to be having a go, in my life I have never been encouraged by the organisation to come and give it a go and my local club is a mile out the road.
Just out of curiosity, but what exactly do you mean by your not being encouraged by the organisation to give it a go at your local club? What form should that encouragement take exactly? Do you want them to come to your front door and engage with you personally? Have you wanted to go down to your local club, but people specifically told you not to?
Quote from: Beffs on November 03, 2015, 08:21:55 PM
Quote from: Tothefuture on November 03, 2015, 06:19:18 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 03, 2015, 08:22:47 AM
There is zero triumphalism involved in flying the tri colour or playing the national anthem inside a gaa ground.
Parading behind a band and playing the national anthem at the more important games adds that bit of pomp and ceremony to the occasion. That's about the height of it.
Any nationalist would want the Orange and Green to find a togetherness. The GAA is a fantastic local resource that could help break down a lot of barriers and improve community adhesion.
I can definitely see how community based an organisation it is. I do however feel that the organisation if it really wanted to reach out could do more. I don't mean to be having a go, in my life I have never been encouraged by the organisation to come and give it a go and my local club is a mile out the road.
Just out of curiosity, but what exactly do you mean by your not being encouraged by the organisation to give it a go at your local club? What form should that encouragement take exactly? Do you want them to come to your front door and engage with you personally? Have you wanted to go down to your local club, but people specifically told you not to?
It would be fair to say that The area I come from never really had the best of community relations in the past but has definitely improved. I was involved in the local Soccer youth team set up and we actively tried to encourage a greater cross community involvement. This involved us going into the local Catholic Primary School to advertise the club and by holding open nights in different areas to encourage involvement. I don't expect People to come and knock on my door but outreach is certainly needed I believe.
Quote from: Tothefuture on November 03, 2015, 10:55:27 PM
Quote from: Beffs on November 03, 2015, 08:21:55 PM
Quote from: Tothefuture on November 03, 2015, 06:19:18 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 03, 2015, 08:22:47 AM
There is zero triumphalism involved in flying the tri colour or playing the national anthem inside a gaa ground.
Parading behind a band and playing the national anthem at the more important games adds that bit of pomp and ceremony to the occasion. That's about the height of it.
Any nationalist would want the Orange and Green to find a togetherness. The GAA is a fantastic local resource that could help break down a lot of barriers and improve community adhesion.
I can definitely see how community based an organisation it is. I do however feel that the organisation if it really wanted to reach out could do more. I don't mean to be having a go, in my life I have never been encouraged by the organisation to come and give it a go and my local club is a mile out the road.
Just out of curiosity, but what exactly do you mean by your not being encouraged by the organisation to give it a go at your local club? What form should that encouragement take exactly? Do you want them to come to your front door and engage with you personally? Have you wanted to go down to your local club, but people specifically told you not to?
It would be fair to say that The area I come from never really had the best of community relations in the past but has definitely improved. I was involved in the local Soccer youth team set up and we actively tried to encourage a greater cross community involvement. This involved us going into the local Catholic Primary School to advertise the club and by holding open nights in different areas to encourage involvement. I don't expect People to come and knock on my door but outreach is certainly needed I believe.
I see you are an Armagh man. I know as an Armagh City man that there is now a great deal of young Gaelic players also playing with Armagh City and Armagh Rugby club. There is also a lot of people involved in helping out across 2 or 3 of these too. I would be surprised if you did not get a warm welcome in any GAA club.
Quote from: Throw ball on November 04, 2015, 12:37:46 AM
Quote from: Tothefuture on November 03, 2015, 10:55:27 PM
Quote from: Beffs on November 03, 2015, 08:21:55 PM
Quote from: Tothefuture on November 03, 2015, 06:19:18 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 03, 2015, 08:22:47 AM
There is zero triumphalism involved in flying the tri colour or playing the national anthem inside a gaa ground.
Parading behind a band and playing the national anthem at the more important games adds that bit of pomp and ceremony to the occasion. That's about the height of it.
Any nationalist would want the Orange and Green to find a togetherness. The GAA is a fantastic local resource that could help break down a lot of barriers and improve community adhesion.
I can definitely see how community based an organisation it is. I do however feel that the organisation if it really wanted to reach out could do more. I don't mean to be having a go, in my life I have never been encouraged by the organisation to come and give it a go and my local club is a mile out the road.
Just out of curiosity, but what exactly do you mean by your not being encouraged by the organisation to give it a go at your local club? What form should that encouragement take exactly? Do you want them to come to your front door and engage with you personally? Have you wanted to go down to your local club, but people specifically told you not to?
It would be fair to say that The area I come from never really had the best of community relations in the past but has definitely improved. I was involved in the local Soccer youth team set up and we actively tried to encourage a greater cross community involvement. This involved us going into the local Catholic Primary School to advertise the club and by holding open nights in different areas to encourage involvement. I don't expect People to come and knock on my door but outreach is certainly needed I believe.
I see you are an Armagh man. I know as an Armagh City man that there is now a great deal of young Gaelic players also playing with Armagh City and Armagh Rugby club. There is also a lot of people involved in helping out across 2 or 3 of these too. I would be surprised if you did not get a warm welcome in any GAA club.
The Rugby club on a Saturday morning really is fantastic to see with kids from all communities getting stuck in. Long may it continue.
Jarlath back in the news
A high-profile former GAA star has been accused of cyberbullying over a tweet saying a woman had a face "like the back of a van".
Co Armagh principal Jarlath Burns is now under investigation by school bosses, it can be revealed.
The Council for Catholic Maintained Schools (CCMS) confirmed it was "addressing" remarks on Twitter relating to former MLA Karen McKevitt.
The remarks appeared on the Twitter account of the GAA hero, who denied it was him who posted them.
The former Armagh captain is headmaster at St Paul's High School in Bessbrook.
The tweet, which was quickly taken down, contained a photograph of Mrs McKevitt's van shot from a car overtaking her on the road.
It included the caption: "Look who was in front of me this evening. Face like the back of a van."
Former South Down MLA Mrs McKevitt, who is standing in next month's Assembly election in Newry and Armagh said she could not make any comment after lodging a formal complaint with CCMS.
A statement from the Catholic schools body said: "CCMS can confirm that it received correspondence in relation to a comment posted on a social media account of one of its principals.
"It can give its assurance that the matter is being addressed."
Mr Burns said he had been attending a GAA match when a number of tweets - which did not represent his values or opinions - were issued.
On becoming aware of them he said they were immediately deleted. One of the tweets, he confirmed, referred to a member of the SDLP.
He explained he had contacted the SDLP's Press office, which he said had been satisfied, and accepted his explanation.
He added that despite making a number of requests to meet Mrs McKevitt "at this stage this has not occurred".
A SDLP spokeswoman said the incident was being regarded as a prime example of "cyberbullying".
"Karen is very upset and, of course, humiliated by this," she said.
"She has lodged a formal complaint and does not think it would be appropriate to meet Mr Burns until the outworking of that."
Mr Burns has been in the headlines several times. Recently he said he would support an end to the playing of the Irish national anthem at GAA matches if it helped the sport reach out to Protestants.
Now chairman of the rules committee at GAA headquarters in Croke Park and tipped as a potential future head of the organisation, he first came to public prominence for non-sporting reasons as a member of the Eames-Bradley group that produced a controversial report on dealing with the legacy of the Troubles.
Last July he praised the outreach work of the Orange Order, and defended the organisation after complaints that a tricolour was not flown at the reopening of its Belfast museum despite the fact the Irish Government had provided funding for it.
He also said on TV that the GAA needed to "reach out" to the unionist community.
Online Editors
Not typical of Jaralath Burns tweets.
Sounds like some spotty teenager from his school hacked his Twitter account.
don't sound like Jarlath to be fair...
Put a serious password on your twitter, if you have 1000 teenagers in your charge.
Apparently this true -it is not him and the SDLP know it but still issued a statement.
Justy putting the boot in to his aul team mate. Jarlath's SF connections wouldn't be lost on McKevitt either.
Out of all the things a teenager would tweet about a politician would be pretty low on the list in my opinion.
Quote from: oakleaflad on April 22, 2016, 02:54:40 PM
Out of all the things a teenager would tweet about a politician would be pretty low on the list in my opinion.
Thought this myself but then again why would Jarlath (or anyone over the age of 12) tweet something so immature?
Quote from: general_lee on April 22, 2016, 03:04:15 PM
Quote from: oakleaflad on April 22, 2016, 02:54:40 PM
Out of all the things a teenager would tweet about a politician would be pretty low on the list in my opinion.
Thought this myself but then again why would Jarlath (or anyone over the age of 12) tweet something so immature?
There is absolutely no way Jarlath would tweet this type of remark about anyone, it's akin to Brolly's remark about Marty.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 22, 2016, 02:26:38 PM
Put a serious password on your twitter, if you have 1000 teenagers in your charge.
Or alternatively stay the f**k off social media when in such a position of authority and with the stakes so high.
No the first time Burns has made an ass of himself on twitter. His arrogance towards the people of Andytown was ridiculous!
Quote from: oakleaflad on April 22, 2016, 02:54:40 PM
Out of all the things a teenager would tweet about a politician would be pretty low on the list in my opinion.
Is your woman's face up on posters about the place?
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 22, 2016, 04:04:21 PM
No the first time Burns has made an ass of himself on twitter. His arrogance towards the people of Andytown was ridiculous!
[/quote. You never miss a chance to put the boot into him. Just jealousy I assume
Such total nonsense.
I believe entirely that he tweeted it but I can see where he was going with it. I would say he was riffing on the fact her face was on the van without meaning it as a comment on her looks. If it was some good looking doll it would have been laughed off. I don't believe he meant it as a personal insult IMO.
Hardstation, "wider school community". Wiseabap.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 22, 2016, 09:59:19 PM
I believe entirely that he tweeted it but I can see where he was going with it. I would say he was riffing on the fact her face was on the van without meaning it as a comment on her looks. If it was some good looking doll it would have been laughed off. I don't believe he meant it as a personal insult IMO.
Surely then he would have side that she had the back of van looking like her face?
I think that the where's and what fors of whether he posted it are pretty irrelevant. Whoever posted it has a cast iron defence...the truth is non libellous!
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on April 22, 2016, 11:11:15 PM
I think that the where's and what fors of whether he posted it are pretty irrelevant. Whoever posted it has a cast iron defence...the truth is non libellous!
;D ;)
Quote from: Nigel White on April 22, 2016, 06:03:04 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 22, 2016, 04:04:21 PM
No the first time Burns has made an ass of himself on twitter. His arrogance towards the people of Andytown was ridiculous!
[/quote. You never miss a chance to put the boot into him. Just jealousy I assume
Jealousy of what exactly?
As an Ulsterman, I look fwd to when Jarlath takes the reins of the organisation.
Of that great Armagh team. himself & McGeeney are making major inroads nationally
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 22, 2016, 11:39:42 PM
Quote from: Nigel White on April 22, 2016, 06:03:04 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 22, 2016, 04:04:21 PM
No the first time Burns has made an ass of himself on twitter. His arrogance towards the people of Andytown was ridiculous!
[/quote. You never miss a chance to put the boot into him. Just jealousy I assume
Jealousy of what exactly?
I don't know. You tell me firstly what you have against him and we'll take it from there
Quote from: Aaron Boone on April 23, 2016, 12:18:25 AM
As an Ulsterman, I look fwd to when Jarlath takes the reins of the organisation.
Of that great Armagh team. himself & McGeeney are making major inroads nationally
Other than a fast track, one way ticket to Division Four, what major national inroad is McGeeney making?
Jarlath Burns to be fair to him, is making his voice heard at the top table of GAA administration. McGeeney has done what exactly?
QuoteMcGeeney has done what exactly?
Aye hasn't achieved anything. Don't even know why he's famous.
He had a decent game in Omagh in 1997.
Quote from: Beffs on April 23, 2016, 01:20:54 AM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on April 23, 2016, 12:18:25 AM
As an Ulsterman, I look fwd to when Jarlath takes the reins of the organisation.
Of that great Armagh team. himself & McGeeney are making major inroads nationally
Other than a fast track, one way ticket to Division Four, what major national inroad is McGeeney making?
Jarlath Burns to be fair to him, is making his voice heard at the top table of GAA administration. McGeeney has done what exactly?
It's been concluded on other threads that McGeeney was a success at Kildare. The Armagh tole is a longer-term project, the pieces of the jigsaw are being put together on & off the field.
I think the reason many Northern Prods aren't interested in GAA is cos they don't really know who they are. A lot of settler colonial societies like the US and Israel for example have this problem. They tend to have very negative attitudes to anything the native population does in case it destroys their made up culture. Look at how the Feds treated Leonard Peltier or what lengths Israel goes to suppress Palestinian culture.
Burns is an interesting character. Mightn't agree with a lot he has to say, but I admire him for his forthrightness and belief in his perspective. I think too much of a major deal is being made of this unfortunate incident. Slap on wrist even seems harsh. I would rather hear and learn from Jarleth than not hear and learn from him and so take the rough with the smooth.
Quote from: ONeill on April 23, 2016, 10:15:23 AM
He had a decent game in Omagh in 1997.
would love to see highlights of that game
Would I be right in thinking Burns is the only player to recieve 10/10 in the Irish News player ratings, for that performance in Omagh?
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on April 23, 2016, 07:52:57 PM
Would I be right in thinking Burns is the only player to receive 10/10 in the Irish News player ratings, for that performance in Omagh?
He tortured us. Think he was wearing 8 that day and all you could see was the 8 rise up for every kick-out and claim it from the sky.
Tyrone won 1-12 to 0-12 but it was the beginning of the end for that side.
I think that was the day Paul McGirr died after the minor game.
Quote from: ONeill on April 23, 2016, 10:44:14 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on April 23, 2016, 07:52:57 PM
Would I be right in thinking Burns is the only player to receive 10/10 in the Irish News player ratings, for that performance in Omagh?
He tortured us. Think he was wearing 8 that day and all you could see was the 8 rise up for every kick-out and claim it from the sky.
Tyrone won 1-12 to 0-12 but it was the beginning of the end for that side.
I think that was the day Paul McGirr died after the minor game.
Did he not catch something ridiculous like 15 or 16 kick outs that day ?
Quote from: Newbridge Exile on April 23, 2016, 11:34:06 PM
Quote from: ONeill on April 23, 2016, 10:44:14 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on April 23, 2016, 07:52:57 PM
Would I be right in thinking Burns is the only player to receive 10/10 in the Irish News player ratings, for that performance in Omagh?
He tortured us. Think he was wearing 8 that day and all you could see was the 8 rise up for every kick-out and claim it from the sky.
Tyrone won 1-12 to 0-12 but it was the beginning of the end for that side.
I think that was the day Paul McGirr died after the minor game.
Did he not catch something ridiculous like 15 or 16 kick outs that day ?
That's why he was a major advocate for the introduction of the 'mark'.. It was the only thing that he could do well on the football pitch!
Quote from: Aaron Boone on April 23, 2016, 10:37:14 AM
Quote from: Beffs on April 23, 2016, 01:20:54 AM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on April 23, 2016, 12:18:25 AM
As an Ulsterman, I look fwd to when Jarlath takes the reins of the organisation.
Of that great Armagh team. himself & McGeeney are making major inroads nationally
Other than a fast track, one way ticket to Division Four, what major national inroad is McGeeney making?
Jarlath Burns to be fair to him, is making his voice heard at the top table of GAA administration. McGeeney has done what exactly?
It's been concluded on other threads that McGeeney was a success at Kildare. The Armagh tole is a longer-term project, the pieces of the jigsaw are being put together on & off the field.
Eh, no it hasn't. There are plenty of people who question his inability to beat a Div 1 team in a championship game & his over all legacy.
And whatever anyone opinions on that, how does it equate to him making major inroads nationally? I'm not entirely sure what that even means, but I'm pretty sure Geezer hasn't done it.
5 QFs in a row and 1 SF was it? I'd say most counties around Kildare's level would be satisfied with that return. I mean maybe Niall Carew and Johnny Doyle aren't best placed to judge McGeeney so we will perhaps have to go with Beffs' opinion instead
Quote from: Newbridge Exile on April 23, 2016, 11:34:06 PM
Quote from: ONeill on April 23, 2016, 10:44:14 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on April 23, 2016, 07:52:57 PM
Would I be right in thinking Burns is the only player to receive 10/10 in the Irish News player ratings, for that performance in Omagh?
He tortured us. Think he was wearing 8 that day and all you could see was the 8 rise up for every kick-out and claim it from the sky.
Tyrone won 1-12 to 0-12 but it was the beginning of the end for that side.
I think that was the day Paul McGirr died after the minor game.
Did he not catch something ridiculous like 15 or 16 kick outs that day ?
And i think KMcG was his midfield partner that day and kicked about 14 wides.
Quote from: keeperlit on April 25, 2016, 09:42:28 AM
Quote from: Newbridge Exile on April 23, 2016, 11:34:06 PM
Quote from: ONeill on April 23, 2016, 10:44:14 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on April 23, 2016, 07:52:57 PM
Would I be right in thinking Burns is the only player to receive 10/10 in the Irish News player ratings, for that performance in Omagh?
He tortured us. Think he was wearing 8 that day and all you could see was the 8 rise up for every kick-out and claim it from the sky.
Tyrone won 1-12 to 0-12 but it was the beginning of the end for that side.
I think that was the day Paul McGirr died after the minor game.
Did he not catch something ridiculous like 15 or 16 kick outs that day ?
And i think KMcG was his midfield partner that day and kicked about 14 wides.
So who can work out the identity of keeperlit? lol
To save the East Belfast Club being sidetracked time to resurrect this one.
Wonder what Snap, Evil and Michaelg make if this
https://www.balls.ie/football/linfields-uvf-kit-is-really-causing-a-storm-in-northern-ireland-436632
Quote from: Rossfan on June 11, 2020, 11:31:49 AM
To save the East Belfast Club being sidetracked time to resurrect this one.
Wonder what Snap, Evil and Michaelg make if this
https://www.balls.ie/football/linfields-uvf-kit-is-really-causing-a-storm-in-northern-ireland-436632
Not sure why you're curious about my views on it, but I'll give you my opinion anyway:
Couldn't care less. Could have been intentional, could be coincidental. Neither can be proven to be the case.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 11, 2020, 11:31:49 AM
To save the East Belfast Club being sidetracked time to resurrect this one.
Wonder what Snap, Evil and Michaelg make if this
https://www.balls.ie/football/linfields-uvf-kit-is-really-causing-a-storm-in-northern-ireland-436632
Pretty sure this has not been done with the UVF flag in mind. After all, lots of UDA men support the Blues too.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 11, 2020, 11:31:49 AM
To save the East Belfast Club being sidetracked time to resurrect this one.
Wonder what Snap, Evil and Michaelg make if this
https://www.balls.ie/football/linfields-uvf-kit-is-really-causing-a-storm-in-northern-ireland-436632
Reminds me of this Fiorentina kit from 1992/93. If memory from Gazzetta Football Italia serves me correctly, it took a good five or six months before people started to notice the problem with it.
(https://i1.wp.com/footballpink.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/fio92.jpg?resize=1024%2C640&ssl=1)
Quote from: Rossfan on June 11, 2020, 11:31:49 AM
To save the East Belfast Club being sidetracked time to resurrect this one.
Wonder what Snap, Evil and Michaelg make if this
https://www.balls.ie/football/linfields-uvf-kit-is-really-causing-a-storm-in-northern-ireland-436632
I've always though Linfield a biggoted shower of scumbags so this announcement doesn't make any difference to me. However, I assume that these jerseys are somehow run past the IFA so its hard to see how any body that is genuinely interested in getting catholics involved would allow this to go ahead?
From the reaction on social media linfield fans don't seem too keen on the new kit either
Quote from: Rossfan on June 11, 2020, 11:31:49 AM
To save the East Belfast Club being sidetracked time to resurrect this one.
Wonder what Snap, Evil and Michaelg make if this
https://www.balls.ie/football/linfields-uvf-kit-is-really-causing-a-storm-in-northern-ireland-436632
I think it's disgraceful.
Don't think much of "Whataboutery" either.
Quote from: Itchy on June 11, 2020, 01:03:43 PM
I've always though Linfield a biggoted shower of scumbags so this announcement doesn't make any difference to me. However, I assume that these jerseys are somehow run past the IFA so its hard to see how any body that is genuinely interested in getting catholics involved would allow this to go ahead?
You assume wrong.
Somehow.
Looks like Umbro have moved to distance themselves from the kit. Looks a bit like they are throwing Linfield under the bus with it. Can't see that relationship lasting much longer.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2020, 10:32:10 AM
Looks like Umbro have moved to distance themselves from the kit. Looks a bit like they are throwing Linfield under the bus with it. Can't see that relationship lasting much longer.
Apparently it sold out. Both parties secretly happy I would imagine
Quote from: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 12:54:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 11, 2020, 11:31:49 AM
To save the East Belfast Club being sidetracked time to resurrect this one.
Wonder what Snap, Evil and Michaelg make if this
https://www.balls.ie/football/linfields-uvf-kit-is-really-causing-a-storm-in-northern-ireland-436632
Reminds me of this Fiorentina kit from 1992/93. If memory from Gazzetta Football Italia serves me correctly, it took a good five or six months before people started to notice the problem with it.
(https://i1.wp.com/footballpink.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/fio92.jpg?resize=1024%2C640&ssl=1)
Took me a few minutes to see it ;D
What am I meant to be seeing here? :o