Time to Split Dublin

[Michael Schmeichal]

It's in everyone's interests that Dublin remains a single county, no rational GAA person would advocate a split. They've always had way more people, way more clubs, and they've always been successful as a consequence, but the GAA scene would be far weaker for their absence.

On a personal level, I've no problem either with a huge amount of money being spent on coaching and training in the city. Young kids in Dublin deserve the same focus and attention as is given to kids down the country and it benefits everyone if playing underage GAA is seen as an attractive option.

On the other side of the coin, there is one area where Dublin spending massive amounts of money on their development is a very unfair advantage, and one that's easily rectified. Because Dublin have a huge budget for coaching, it means that they can employ players who are struggling for work and keep them in the city. Smaller counties lose players all the time due to emigration, or else they might stay around but can't commit to county football because they work long or awkward hours and simply don't have the spare time to compete with teachers/students/coaches, who have massive amounts of free time for training.

In Offaly, we have one full time coach in football and one in hurling. Dublin have, to my knowledge, at least six members of the county hurling panel employed as coaches, and I can only guess that there are several football panelists similarly employed. I have heard a number that there are over 100 people in total employed by the DCB, which is where the real advantage lies. When a promising young player in Offaly (for example) struggles to find work, they have to head to Australia/US/London. At any given time we've three or four probably starters on foreign shores. Then you have all the self-employed guys who can't train five or six times a week because they work sixty hours, and they pull out too. Dublin gets to give these guys handy jobs.

The answer for me is simple. The same amount should be spent per head on coaching and development everywhere, and county identities should be retained. However all staffing should be centralised, or else there should be a training centre somewhere so that the player from Wicklow or Louth is just as likely to get the job as coach for the greater Blanchardstown area as the player from Dublin.

Equally, there should be a leveling mechanism set up for teams that want to spend huge amounts on team preparation. No matter how lean and mean you run things, you will spend €100k a year on a county adult team. However it shouldn't be the case that some have to work like dogs to earn that, while others can spend half a million and more. If we set a rule that for every €2 you spent over €100k per year, you had to pay another €1 into a centralised fund that could then be spent around the country on teams that don't get the same attention, that could also be another reasonably fair way of balancing things up.

Lone Shark I agree with a lot of what you say but there are a number of inaccuracies in your post. 3 of the Dublin Senior Hurling Panel are full time coaches and none of the football panel are. I don't think its really much of an advantage at all. There is nowhere near 100 people employed by Dublin County board. Maybe 50 or 60 max. 30- 35 are coaches. I know that close to half these coaches are NOT from Dublin and I do know of 2 inter county footballers from outside Dublin who are currently employed by DCB.

Regarding the overall spend while I agree it should be capped I would totally disagree with the idea of counties paying into a centralised fund. You would then hae the scenario of counties who have managed their finances prudently being foced to subsidise counties who have squandered their money

[Lone Shark]

Hmm. For what it's worth, the number of six came from one of the players that actually has one of the jobs and it was said to me last year, so either three guys have got new jobs since then or else there's wires crossed somewhere. The 100 was based on a number I saw written in the Indo somewhere, but I'd trust an anonymous poster over that particular national newspaper, which speaks volumes in its own right.

I didn't realise that there were so many that aren't from Dublin taking coaches jobs up there so that too is encouraging.

As for the second point, you're not penalising counties for being prudent - you're penalising spending. On the one hand I agree with the point that counties who have larger budgets should be able to spend appropriately, however if Dublin have twenty times the population of some other counties, that can mean that they have twenty times the need for coaching and development. It does not mean that they should have twenty times the budget to spend on their county panels, when county panels should in theory all cost the same. In fact if anything, the Dublin county panel spend should be less than any other, since very few of their players would be travelling large distances to come to training and matches, and so there would be very little spend on mileage relative to counties down the country where their players are all over the place.

Neither am I talking of the centralised fund being used to help out counties who used to spend large numbers but now can't afford to because they overdid it. I'm talking about being used to fund the running costs of the (more often) hurling teams of counties where the total county board turnover is around €1m or less and where they can't even spend €100k on a team and end up rationing things that other counties take for granted. I'm not talking about it being used so Kildare can keep spending money they don't have, for example.

Basically, I get that Dublin and Cork will always get far more money from sponsorship and other income than a Leitrim or Longford. However Dublin and Cork have a lot of youth and infrastructure to maintain, so if they want to spend it on that, then go ahead, no penalty. However if they want to spend it on a backroom team of twenty people to give their seniors a competitive advantage, then there should be some form of levelling of the playing field, I believe.

[Drummerboy]

Interesting topic. I know my local club has a GPO who is an inter county player from Connacht. As far as I know the club have to match what the county board puts in. I have to say it has made a big difference in the club, enabling them to gain kids who would have been lost to other sports.

[INDIANA]

Hmm. For what it's worth, the number of six came from one of the players that actually has one of the jobs and it was said to me last year, so either three guys have got new jobs since then or else there's wires crossed somewhere. The 100 was based on a number I saw written in the Indo somewhere, but I'd trust an anonymous poster over that particular national newspaper, which speaks volumes in its own right.

I didn't realise that there were so many that aren't from Dublin taking coaches jobs up there so that too is encouraging.

As for the second point, you're not penalising counties for being prudent - you're penalising spending. On the one hand I agree with the point that counties who have larger budgets should be able to spend appropriately, however if Dublin have twenty times the population of some other counties, that can mean that they have twenty times the need for coaching and development. It does not mean that they should have twenty times the budget to spend on their county panels, when county panels should in theory all cost the same. In fact if anything, the Dublin county panel spend should be less than any other, since very few of their players would be travelling large distances to come to training and matches, and so there would be very little spend on mileage relative to counties down the country where their players are all over the place.

Neither am I talking of the centralised fund being used to help out counties who used to spend large numbers but now can't afford to because they overdid it. I'm talking about being used to fund the running costs of the (more often) hurling teams of counties where the total county board turnover is around €1m or less and where they can't even spend €100k on a team and end up rationing things that other counties take for granted. I'm not talking about it being used so Kildare can keep spending money they don't have, for example.

Basically, I get that Dublin and Cork will always get far more money from sponsorship and other income than a Leitrim or Longford. However Dublin and Cork have a lot of youth and infrastructure to maintain, so if they want to spend it on that, then go ahead, no penalty. However if they want to spend it on a backroom team of twenty people to give their seniors a competitive advantage, then there should be some form of levelling of the playing field, I believe.

Fair enough post.

There is no member of the football panel a GPO and definitely not 6 members of the hurling panel. Its needs to be noted some clubs completely fund their GPO's from their own resources. This crack that the Govt are funding this is totally inaccurate.


Dublin have been very prudent with their money but that's only because we've had guys involved who know finance. Other counties have literally thrown away fortunes. There are plenty of other problems in Dublin like club fixtures for example.

Laois are currently getting help from Croke Park for their hurling programme. Croke Park will invest in viable projects. The problem is a lot of the counties don't put any effort into coaching development and seeking aid with viable plans. They prefer just to complain about Dublin.

[Michael Schmeichal]

Hmm. For what it's worth, the number of six came from one of the players that actually has one of the jobs and it was said to me last year, so either three guys have got new jobs since then or else there's wires crossed somewhere. The 100 was based on a number I saw written in the Indo somewhere, but I'd trust an anonymous poster over that particular national newspaper, which speaks volumes in its own right.

I didn't realise that there were so many that aren't from Dublin taking coaches jobs up there so that too is encouraging.

As for the second point, you're not penalising counties for being prudent - you're penalising spending. On the one hand I agree with the point that counties who have larger budgets should be able to spend appropriately, however if Dublin have twenty times the population of some other counties, that can mean that they have twenty times the need for coaching and development. It does not mean that they should have twenty times the budget to spend on their county panels, when county panels should in theory all cost the same. In fact if anything, the Dublin county panel spend should be less than any other, since very few of their players would be travelling large distances to come to training and matches, and so there would be very little spend on mileage relative to counties down the country where their players are all over the place.

Neither am I talking of the centralised fund being used to help out counties who used to spend large numbers but now can't afford to because they overdid it. I'm talking about being used to fund the running costs of the (more often) hurling teams of counties where the total county board turnover is around €1m or less and where they can't even spend €100k on a team and end up rationing things that other counties take for granted. I'm not talking about it being used so Kildare can keep spending money they don't have, for example.

Basically, I get that Dublin and Cork will always get far more money from sponsorship and other income than a Leitrim or Longford. However Dublin and Cork have a lot of youth and infrastructure to maintain, so if they want to spend it on that, then go ahead, no penalty. However if they want to spend it on a backroom team of twenty people to give their seniors a competitive advantage, then there should be some form of levelling of the playing field, I believe.

Its definitely 3 hurlers and no footballers.

Regarding team spending. Would capping the spend at a reasonable amount not be the simplest and fairest way?

[Lone Shark]

There's no doubt that Dublin have managed their finances well, and nobody expects the DCB to administer a playing population that size with a budget equivalent to that of Offaly, Laois or similar. However the simple fact of the matter is that a bigger income is needed for the amount of coaching and infrastructure required, but at the end of the day, Dublin only have to field the same number of county teams as any other dual county.

Equally, while a spending cap would be good, I don't think it would be easily enforceable. You'd just drive a lot of it under the table, or if counties actually followed the rules, you'd have more counties going without medical personnel at training etc, which is not the way we want to go. Financial pragmatism means thats just how it is for a lot of counties, but that's not something you'd want to encourage. At least this way you're saying to counties that if they want to spend big on team preparation they may do so, but just they have to share the wealth a little.

[Johnnybegood]

Anyone know What way the money from inter county attendances is divide up ?

[Dont Matter]

The GAA have created a monster, it's time to cut that monster into pieces. 3 pieces, Fingal, Dublin South and Dun Laoighaire/Rathdown.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2013/1008/479184-aig-new-dublin-gaa-sponsor-in-2-million-deal/

[muppet]

The GAA have created a monster, it's time to cut that monster into pieces. 3 pieces, Fingal, Dublin South and Dun Laoighaire/Rathdown.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2013/1008/479184-aig-new-dublin-gaa-sponsor-in-2-million-deal/

AIG!

Too big to fail?

http://www.thenation.com/article/153929/aig-bailout-scandal#

[heffo]

The GAA have created a monster, it's time to cut that monster into pieces. 3 pieces, Fingal, Dublin South and Dun Laoighaire/Rathdown.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2013/1008/479184-aig-new-dublin-gaa-sponsor-in-2-million-deal/

I hate to break to break it to you after all this time but there are four council areas in Dublin not three

[deiseach]

The GAA have created a monster, it's time to cut that monster into pieces. 3 pieces, Fingal, Dublin South and Dun Laoighaire/Rathdown.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2013/1008/479184-aig-new-dublin-gaa-sponsor-in-2-million-deal/

AIG!

Too big to fail?

http://www.thenation.com/article/153929/aig-bailout-scandal#

Dont Matter, a one man lynch mob.

[heffo]

Hmm. For what it's worth, the number of six came from one of the players that actually has one of the jobs and it was said to me last year, so either three guys have got new jobs since then or else there's wires crossed somewhere. The 100 was based on a number I saw written in the Indo somewhere, but I'd trust an anonymous poster over that particular national newspaper, which speaks volumes in its own right.

I didn't realise that there were so many that aren't from Dublin taking coaches jobs up there so that too is encouraging.

As for the second point, you're not penalising counties for being prudent - you're penalising spending. On the one hand I agree with the point that counties who have larger budgets should be able to spend appropriately, however if Dublin have twenty times the population of some other counties, that can mean that they have twenty times the need for coaching and development. It does not mean that they should have twenty times the budget to spend on their county panels, when county panels should in theory all cost the same. In fact if anything, the Dublin county panel spend should be less than any other, since very few of their players would be travelling large distances to come to training and matches, and so there would be very little spend on mileage relative to counties down the country where their players are all over the place.

Neither am I talking of the centralised fund being used to help out counties who used to spend large numbers but now can't afford to because they overdid it. I'm talking about being used to fund the running costs of the (more often) hurling teams of counties where the total county board turnover is around €1m or less and where they can't even spend €100k on a team and end up rationing things that other counties take for granted. I'm not talking about it being used so Kildare can keep spending money they don't have, for example.

Basically, I get that Dublin and Cork will always get far more money from sponsorship and other income than a Leitrim or Longford. However Dublin and Cork have a lot of youth and infrastructure to maintain, so if they want to spend it on that, then go ahead, no penalty. However if they want to spend it on a backroom team of twenty people to give their seniors a competitive advantage, then there should be some form of levelling of the playing field, I believe.

3 GPO's on Hurling panel, none on football panel and approx 50 coaches in total, some split between clubs.

The article by Colm Keys (I think it was) was very poorly researched.

[Dont Matter]

The GAA have created a monster, it's time to cut that monster into pieces. 3 pieces, Fingal, Dublin South and Dun Laoighaire/Rathdown.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2013/1008/479184-aig-new-dublin-gaa-sponsor-in-2-million-deal/

I hate to break to break it to you after all this time but there are four council areas in Dublin not three

You want to give the city junkies some hurls? Leave them to their own sport.

[muppet]

The GAA have created a monster, it's time to cut that monster into pieces. 3 pieces, Fingal, Dublin South and Dun Laoighaire/Rathdown.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2013/1008/479184-aig-new-dublin-gaa-sponsor-in-2-million-deal/

AIG!

Too big to fail?

http://www.thenation.com/article/153929/aig-bailout-scandal#

Dont Matter, a one man lynch mob.

That is some article Deiseach.

[easytiger95]

Great article Deiseach - Taibi is one of the best journalists out there these days - he'll be up there with the likes of Hunter S. and Tom Wolfe, when people look back on his work on the bailout, Goldman Sachs especially.

By the way, I heard the Eugene Mcgee piece and he was actually decrying the appearance of "split Dublin" topics on message boards. Don't Matter is the the archetype of the internet troll - or a member of the Irish cummann of the Tea Party. It's rare to see a man so invested in his own idiocy.