http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/transport-and-tourism/hiring-of-ryanair-pilots-not-a-straightforward-arrangement-1.1541382?page=1 (http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/transport-and-tourism/hiring-of-ryanair-pilots-not-a-straightforward-arrangement-1.1541382?page=1)
Quote from: muppet on September 28, 2013, 01:59:39 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/transport-and-tourism/hiring-of-ryanair-pilots-not-a-straightforward-arrangement-1.1541382?page=1 (http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/transport-and-tourism/hiring-of-ryanair-pilots-not-a-straightforward-arrangement-1.1541382?page=1)
That is the cost of cheap fares. Plus all the environmental externalities..
https://www.ft.com/content/8196a46e-3174-11e7-9555-23ef563ecf9a
"Seven European pension schemes overseeing nearly €300bn of assets have pulled their investments in Ryanair due to concerns about high-profile labour disputes involving the budget airline. Denmark's largest pension fund, ATP, and Folksam, the Swedish retirement scheme, are among the large investors that have sold their holdings in Ryanair at a time of growing concern about how the airline pays its staff and interacts with unions. Baillie Gifford, one of the UK's largest asset managers, and Hermes EOS, the influential adviser to institutional investors, have also raised concerns about labour issues with Ryanair in recent months. Michael O'Leary, the outspoken chief executive of Ryanair, described the pension funds that have sold their holdings as "idiots", adding: "We don't pay too much attention to pension funds who have excluded us over labour concerns. They are misinformed. We don't have any labour issues."
Sound as bad as uber.
How many of our staunch left wingers and union leaders enjoy the cheap flights on Ryanair evetyday?
Any word from Mr. O'Leary, about his plans for cancelling lots of flights & inconveniencing lots of people?
Or, is he on holidays [like most of his pilots]?
Maybe he's gone over to a rival Scandinavian outfit [like another pile of his pilots].
He's strangely publicity shy this weather......bit unlike him.
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on September 18, 2017, 01:37:44 PM
Any word from Mr. O'Leary, about his plans for cancelling lots of flights & inconveniencing lots of people?
Or, is he on holidays [like most of his pilots]?
Maybe he's gone over to a rival Scandinavian outfit [like another pile of his pilots].
He's strangely publicity shy this weather......bit unlike him.
Doesn't sound right to me something has to be up in there!!!
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/it-is-clearly-a-messwe-sincerely-apologise-ryanair-ceo-michael-oleary-36142917.html
They're hiring 737 ready pilots with a nice 10k signing bonus over the next few months. As mentioned above, rumoured that plenty have moved to Norwegian recently which is where a lot of the problems are coming from.
1) Any Ryanair employees play gaelic football or hurling?
2) Interesting fact: Ryanair sounds the same backwards
No they are forbidden from doing so in their contracts.
There is nothing interesting about Ryanair, except trying to understand why anyone would try to fly with them.
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on September 18, 2017, 07:11:43 PM
No they are forbidden from doing so in their contracts.
There is nothing interesting about Ryanair, except trying to understand why anyone would try to fly with them.
It's not rocket science... they're cheap!
Not much consolation if O'Leary pulls the plug on your flight.
Ach sure it's only 2% of all passengers. You still have a fair chance of getting there & back.
Muppet's link isn't working for me. Try this if you get a 404:
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/hiring-of-ryanair-pilots-not-a-straightforward-arrangement-1.1541382 (https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/hiring-of-ryanair-pilots-not-a-straightforward-arrangement-1.1541382)
Quoth the article:
QuoteA copy of a standard Brookfield contract seen by The Irish Times includes a clause where the signing pilot agrees that he or she is not an employee of Ryanair or Brookfield, and will not at any time be deemed to be an employee.
O'Leary could be in a bit of trouble here. In English law it's not very clear cut who's your "employer." A lot depends on a combination of factors including who pays your wages, who do you report to, who controls the method of work, etc.. The court could rule that Ryanair is the employer and pilots are entitled to all the rights that go with it under UK employment law.
Of course if O'Leary wasn't such a full-of-himself gobs***e he'd give the crew decent pay and conditions in the first place, he wouldn't be going to court, and there wouldn't be an Exodus to his Norwegian competitor. Slap it up him.
When we were kids air travel was completely unaffordable - for family weddings in London it used to be a ferry over to Scotland and drive down the whole country. Ryanair were largely responsible for changing that and have my gratitude at least, for doing so.
mmm - who to believe O'Leary or the pilots ;) ;)
Over 700 pilots left Ryanair in last financial year, Ialpa claims
Issues surrounding Ryanair flight cancellations flagged with airline over a year ago
about 20 hours ago
The changes that have led Ryanair to introduce its flight cancellation programme were flagged to the airline at least a year ago, according to the Irish Air Line Pilots' Association (Ialpa).
They have described as "strange and unsustainable" the airline's explanation that the disruption is being caused by difficulties with pilots' entitlements to annual leave.
However at a press conference on Monday, Ryanair chief executive Michael O'Leary denied the airline was short of pilots or that a large number of pilots had joined other airlines.
On Friday the airline announced it was going to introduce a six-week programme of cancellations, to address a number of matters including a shortage of pilots caused by the airline having "messed up" its holiday leave roster.
However Ialpa has said the disruption and the cancellations are due to Ryanair having to implement its scheme for measuring pilot flying hours in a way that is keeping with EU flight time regulations.
They say that for years Ireland and the Irish Aviation Authority interpreted the EU rules governing maximum flying hours in a way that was different from other EU regulators, which gave Irish airlines an advantage.
However Irish airlines now have to adopt the rules in the same way as their EU counterparts. This is affecting the airline's pilot rostering operation, but it has been known that the change is coming for some time.
"It seems clear that Ryanair has failed to plan properly for the implementation of the regulations," Ialpa said.
The change regards when airlines began to count the annual flying hours of a pilot. Up to recently Ryanair began counting the hours on April 1st, but it must now do so from January 1st.
The association also says that the high turnover of pilots at the airline is putting pressure on its pilot roster, and point to filings to the Securities and Exchange Commission in the US that show that, as of 2017, the average length of stay for a pilot with the airline was four years.
An Ialpa analysis of the data indicates that more than 700 pilots left Ryanair in its latest financial year, creating a significant new pilot and training challenge for the airline.
It said that Ryanair has requested pilots to work during their "leave" period, but this appears to contradict the airline's claim that difficulties are being caused by pilots having to take leave before the year's end.
"Since there is no requirement in aviation regulation to provide annual leave per se, it is unclear what is compelling Ryanair to provide any leave to their pilots at this time. It seems clear that Ryanair has failed to plan properly for the implementation of the regulations."
"A separate point of note is Ryanair saying that the problem will last for about six weeks. This conveniently brings them to the winter schedule with its reduced overall crewing requirement, which is further evidence of the real problem being a shortage of flight crew."
I remember watching an episode of "The Thick of It" when Malcolm Tucker told someone he was raging at a level he normally reserved for Ryanair.
Quote from: haranguerer on September 19, 2017, 09:45:56 AM
When we were kids air travel was completely unaffordable - for family weddings in London it used to be a ferry over to Scotland and drive down the whole country. Ryanair were largely responsible for changing that and have my gratitude at least, for doing so.
True, except that Easyjet and plenty of other low cost airlines manage to make flying affordable without being run by egotistical cretins who think it's funny to treat their customers and employees with contempt. You don't have to be unethical to be successful in business.
easyJet absolutely treat their customers with the same level of contempt as Ryanair.
Yes but their CEO doesn't regularly go to the media to rub their noses in it, unlike O'Leary.
I've flown all over Europe and seen places I'd never of been because of Ryanair and in probably in excess of 100 flights I've had 1 really bad experience. would I say I've been treated with contempt, not really..
Everyone knows what they offer, if you don't like it fly with someone else.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 19, 2017, 06:00:48 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on September 19, 2017, 09:45:56 AM
When we were kids air travel was completely unaffordable - for family weddings in London it used to be a ferry over to Scotland and drive down the whole country. Ryanair were largely responsible for changing that and have my gratitude at least, for doing so.
True, except that Easyjet and plenty of other low cost airlines manage to make flying affordable without being run by egotistical cretins who think it's funny to treat their customers and employees with contempt. You don't have to be unethical to be successful in business.
I could count on one hand the amount of times I've been delayed with Ryanair. I have never flown easyjet without being delayed, and usually its 50/50 at best with flybe. Neither of those treat me better than Ryanair, I haven't experienced the contempt you speak of, and their planes are newer and more modern than either of the others. Just because you don't like how a company does business doesn't make them unethical.
As an aside, weren't the founders (and owners until v recently) of easyjet charged with manslaughter in the past in relation to an incident which led to deaths and a massive ecological disaster? I'd have O'Leary any day
At the end of the day nobody forces anyone to fly with any of these airlines. You know they are a budget airline and what that means. If you dont like the customer service/baggage restrictions/pay for seat etc etc go elsewhere. Too many people want the cheap flights but seem to think that they are entitled to the customer service of more expensive options that they chose not to pay for.
My main gripe with the likes of Easyjet/Ryanair is that they are not strict enough on the cabin baggage sizes. The amount of idiots carrying huge rucksacks/cases onboard and trying to jam them into the overhead lockers or holding up the disembarking while they try to wrestle them down the isle really bugs me!
Rant over!
Sorted. O'Leary has just banned all hand baggage, owing to a shortage of overhead bins.
I've never had any bother with easyJet or other budget carriers. Their basic service is fairly similar - arrive on time with a boarding card and a case or bag that fits their carry-on requirements and things will be golden. The difference between the good company and the shitty one is how they treat their customers which things go wrong. This is where Ryanair seem to fall down as there appears to be a level of contempt for paying customers.
Never flown Ryanair - but flew EasyJet a bunch as a college student
What is the saving compared to a standard priced airline? Let's say Dublin to London, 1 checked bag.
Quote from: Puckoon on September 20, 2017, 03:18:19 PM
Never flown Ryanair - but flew EasyJet a bunch as a college student
What is the saving compared to a standard priced airline? Let's say Dublin to London, 1 checked bag.
Not a pile nowadays as "standard priced airlines" such as Aer Lingus etc. have similarly low prices.
Has anyone noticed the way that all the other ethical low cost airlines are jacking their prices up now that Ryanair is not as competitive?
Quote from: Sandino on September 29, 2017, 12:50:15 PM
Has anyone noticed the way that all the other ethical low cost airlines are jacking their prices up now that Ryanair is not as competitive?
Supply and Demand which is fair enough-dont think any airline would class themselves as ethical.
The other airlines will be loving the prospect of Ryanair having to pay them for these inflated fares
Supply and demand but it will cost us the punters.
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on September 18, 2017, 09:30:02 PM
Not much consolation if O'Leary pulls the plug on your flight.
Ach sure it's only 2% of all passengers. You still have a fair chance of getting there & back.
I would take a 2% risk if I was saving E100
https://www.ft.com/content/86d3955c-a4fd-11e7-9e4f-7f5e6a7c98a2
Ryanair still flies a flag of contempt for customers
Regulators cannot allow the chief executive to defy the law with impunity
And the airline is under pressure from Euro pean authorities who think the favourable tax treatment it receives in Ireland, and its use of Irish employment law, allows it to undercut rivals unfairly.
" I don't think I'll use it Our booking system is full of people who swore they would never fly with us again," an unrepentant Michael O'Leary boasted last week, just a moment after offering his "unreserved apology" for the mess over pilot rosters that led Ryanair to cancel flights affecting more than 700,000 passengers. The Irish airline's abrasive chief executive has a point. He has always acted on the principle that passengers will put up with anything so long as the flight lands safely and the price is low enough. He has repeatedly been proved right. Ryanair thrived despite its reputation for chaotic queues, invasive advertising, aggressive baggage checks and infuriating add-on charges. It pioneered many of the tactics by which low-cost airlines have upended their industry and proved that short-haul carriers can make money. But even Ryanair found there was a point at which poor customer service impinges on growth. In 2013, Mr O'Leary declared his intent to "eliminate things that unnecessarily piss people off". The aim was to pitch for more lucrative business passengers, who demand a modicum of comfort and set store by punctuality — and it paid off. Yet Mr O'Leary's instinctive contempt for customers and employees appears to be intact — and ingrained in Ryanair's corporate culture. This ought to be a concern for both regulators and shareholders. It is still not clear why a relatively minor change in regulation — counting pilots' flying hours over a calendar rather than a fiscal year — should have caused so much disruption. Ryanair rejects suggestions that it does not have enough pilots and is struggling to retain them. But Mr O'Leary workforce relations are clearly delicate. It is also apparent that there is no slack at all in the system. Zero frills is one thing; but a bare bones approach to operational matters is more worrying.The mistakes that caused the cancellations are minor, though, next to the airline's flagrant attempt to ignore its legal obligations to passengers. Mr O'Leary said openly at first that Ryanair would not pay to book people on to flights with other airlines where necessary, nor would it reimburse expenses incurred as a result of the cancellations. This was inexcusable. As the head of the Civil Aviation Authority put it: "People shouldn't have to choose between low fares and legal rights."Ryanair has now recanted, saying on Friday it had met regulators and agreed steps to fulfil its obligations and ensure passengers were aware of their rights. This will probably be enough to avert the CAA's threat of legal action. Mr O'Leary insists there will be no lasting repercussions, and no impact on this year's profits. Investors seem to agree: the share price has dipped, but is still 30 per cent higher than a year ago. It is true that Ryanair can easily absorb the immediate cost of compensating passengers. The airline may need to hire more crew as well as raising pilot pay but, even after this, its operating costs will be much lower than those of its nearest rivals. A recent ruling by the European Court of Justice, which will allow cabin crew to pursue claims in the countries where they are based, and not only in Irish courts, is a bigger threat to its business model. Nonetheless, Mr O'Leary should not assume the affair will blow over. Passengers have short memories but business travellers pay for reliability. Conciliation is not Mr O'Leary's style, but it might be worth his while to try it for a change.
Quote from: Sandino on September 29, 2017, 12:50:15 PM
Has anyone noticed the way that all the other ethical low cost airlines are jacking their prices up now that Ryanair is not as competitive?
Got an email from Ryanair to say a rtn flight in Nov was cancelled (full refund and an £80 Travel Voucher to be fair) Tried the other carriers fairly sharpish and the prices weren't very 'budget', the hoors!
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/dec/15/ryanair-to-recognise-unions-in-historic-shift-to-stop-christmas-strike-by-pilots