FAI...New Manager Hunt continues

[imtommygunn]

Should they even have to choose at 16 / 17?

[seafoid]

Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team

Why not?

Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.

Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.

International football.is like club  hurling. It's about how good your weakest players are. Ireland don't have another 10 Seamus Colemans .

[Itchy]

Should they even have to choose at 16 / 17?

I think when you get to that age the demands of sport means its hard to do mote than one. I dont think they should be forced to choose but I think it will be something the teen will have to consider.

[tiempo]

The Dubs would of hockeyed that Luxembourg team, alls not lost, let Jim and the lads loose for the back door

[seafoid]

Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team

Why not?

Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.

Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.

Last time I looked the LOI was ranked 37 in Europe

Bazunu left Ireland at 17 and it's a long time since those other players left the league

And bar Coleman they were all pretty much journeymen

Hoolahan was skilful alright but it took him a long, long time to work his way up to international level, he was into his 30s before he established himself

Players with ambition want out of the LOI and that's a major reason why it can't develop in terms of quality and why it doesn't attract spectator support

We are the 29th best populated country so slightly below whete we should be.

A list of players who left Dundalk and didn't or kinda made it was posited. I pointed out there is a list of players who left other clubs and did make it. Maybe its a Dundalk thing.

Players with ambition want out of every league bar the EPL, Serie A, La Liga and Budesliga and even then. It doesn't turn off Portugese or Dutch fans. Not accepting that.

Dutch teams have won six European Cups

Portuguese teams have won four European Cups

Not recently.  Soccer now is all about the concentration of money. The Dutch League is a feeder for the biggest Euro clubs. That Ajax team was broken up. Monaco had a decent run in the Champions League a few years ago. They were broken up. How long has it been since a team from Eastern Europe won the European Cup ? 30 years. Ajax was 95.

Barcelona have €1 billion in debt. Most of the money goes on player remuneration

European soccer is a Ponzi scheme.
.

Porto have won three European trophies in this century, the Champions League in 2004 and the Europa League in 2003 and 2011

They're there again in the quarter-finals this year having knocked out Juventus

Ajax reached the semis two years ago knocking out Real Madrid and Juventus and should have reached the final

The big Dutch and Portuguese teams have particular business models, they sign the best young worldwide talent young and sell them on for big money, in weak years or with a bit of luck, in the Champions League they can sometimes nip in and go very deep into the competition

Portugal and Holland are also two of the greatest centres of footballing thought in the world and have a ready supply of good home grown talent

You're not wrong when you say that European football is a ponzi scheme, and the new Champions League format from 2023 or 24 or whenever will make that a lot worse - but Portugal/Holland v the League of Ireland, we're talking totally different levels of footballing backwaters here

Obviously Portugal and Holland are on a different planet

But in the economic system everything is centralised - Dublin, Paris etc. And it is the exact same in European soccer.
So Ajax will never win the European Cup unless the system changes. I work with an Ajax fan. When they were doing well he had mixed feelings.  Great to see but he knew  the team would be broken up.

[manfromdelmonte]

Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team

Why not?

Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.

Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.

International football.is like club  hurling. It's about how good your weakest players are. Ireland don't have another 10 Seamus Colemans .

Seamus is barely good enough for international football anymore

[Baile Brigín 2]

Should they even have to choose at 16 / 17?

A huge part of this thread is that soccer in effect not an industry in Ireland. If you entered an English acadamy and were caught playing rugby you would be out. Why wouldn't Irish clubs be different? You are effectively signing pro terms, imagine popping your ACL playing another sport?

[Itchy]

Should they even have to choose at 16 / 17?

A huge part of this thread is that soccer in effect not an industry in Ireland. If you entered an English acadamy and were caught playing rugby you would be out. Why wouldn't Irish clubs be different? You are effectively signing pro terms, imagine popping your ACL playing another sport?

Because this is Ireland not the UK. And that's what they are doing and it aint working and the standard of player Ireland is creating now is worse than in the past. We need to find our own way. Just my opinion but the FAI are leaving gems behind them due to their own arrogance and stupidity. Signing pro terms but no payment??

[sid waddell]

Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team

Why not?

Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.

Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.

Last time I looked the LOI was ranked 37 in Europe

Bazunu left Ireland at 17 and it's a long time since those other players left the league

And bar Coleman they were all pretty much journeymen

Hoolahan was skilful alright but it took him a long, long time to work his way up to international level, he was into his 30s before he established himself

Players with ambition want out of the LOI and that's a major reason why it can't develop in terms of quality and why it doesn't attract spectator support

We are the 29th best populated country so slightly below whete we should be.

A list of players who left Dundalk and didn't or kinda made it was posited. I pointed out there is a list of players who left other clubs and did make it. Maybe its a Dundalk thing.

Players with ambition want out of every league bar the EPL, Serie A, La Liga and Budesliga and even then. It doesn't turn off Portugese or Dutch fans. Not accepting that.

Dutch teams have won six European Cups

Portuguese teams have won four European Cups

Ajax v PSV or Ajax v Feyenoord are massive matches, they can credibly be classed as among the biggest in Europe

So too Benfica v Porto, which used to attract 135k to the Stadium of Light

Rovers v Bohs attracts 2-3k

So we are agreed. A leagues popularity is not based on whether players can leave for a better one.

Rovers Bohs used to attract 40,000 plus. And if you think it only attracts 2k today you are in for a rude awakening if you want to get a ticket

A league's popularity is largely based on history and tradition

Celtic v Rangers will always be a massive match even if the teams aren't very good because it has over 100 years of history which gives it huge weight

There are a lot of clubs throughout Europe who have big support bases based on history - Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV will always be big clubs, so too Benfica and Porto, Anderlecht, Rapid Vienna, IFK Gothenburg, Red Star Belgrade, Partizan Belgrade, Steaua Bucharest, Dynamo Kiev etc.

These clubs all have a history of competing and winning in Europe during a time when players played for clubs in their own countries

But that has never been the case in Ireland, because of historical peculiarities we never had big clubs in this country, and our best footballers always looked to England

As regards Portugal and Holland, these leagues are 6 and 7 in Europe respectively, they are good leagues which attract very good players

Somewhere like Luxembourg, our conquerers last night, would be a fair comparison

The whole history of the League of Ireland is one of failure, I mean what's the best result for a League of Ireland team ever in Europe? Shels beating Hajduk Split?

In my lifetime and the lifetime of pretty much anybody still alive, the best Irish players always went to England and thee LOI made do with the leftovers, that's been the the way for the whole history of football basically

Rovers v Bohs never came remotely close to attracting 40k in my lifetime, I doubt it has attracted more than 7-8k max in my lifetime

LOI games used to attract bigger crowds in the 50s and 60s but that time is long, long gone

30k at an occasional FAI Cup final is as good as it can get in the modern era

Thats more accurate than your original 'point'.

The last Rovers home game v Bohs with a crowd was a full house of 7,000 plus.

But you are still fixed on this point that there is some unique flaw in Irish football that the best go abroad. They do in Holland, Portugal, Belgium, France and so on.

Ajax reached the Champions League semis in 2019
Porto are in the Champions League quarters this year
Belgian teams have won European trophies and reached numerous European finals
France is one of the top five leagues in Europe, and has PSG, one of the two richest clubs in the world

All these leagues are a good standard, and teams from at least three of the four can beat the elite clubs of Europe on their day

You can play for your national team if you play in any of those leagues

You can't do any of that in the League of Ireland, ranked 37 in Europe

Like, is even one of the top 50 Irish footballers around now playing in the League of Ireland? Doubtful

[sid waddell]

Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team

Why not?

Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.

Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.

Last time I looked the LOI was ranked 37 in Europe

Bazunu left Ireland at 17 and it's a long time since those other players left the league

And bar Coleman they were all pretty much journeymen

Hoolahan was skilful alright but it took him a long, long time to work his way up to international level, he was into his 30s before he established himself

Players with ambition want out of the LOI and that's a major reason why it can't develop in terms of quality and why it doesn't attract spectator support

We are the 29th best populated country so slightly below whete we should be.

A list of players who left Dundalk and didn't or kinda made it was posited. I pointed out there is a list of players who left other clubs and did make it. Maybe its a Dundalk thing.

Players with ambition want out of every league bar the EPL, Serie A, La Liga and Budesliga and even then. It doesn't turn off Portugese or Dutch fans. Not accepting that.

Dutch teams have won six European Cups

Portuguese teams have won four European Cups

Not recently.  Soccer now is all about the concentration of money. The Dutch League is a feeder for the biggest Euro clubs. That Ajax team was broken up. Monaco had a decent run in the Champions League a few years ago. They were broken up. How long has it been since a team from Eastern Europe won the European Cup ? 30 years. Ajax was 95.

Barcelona have €1 billion in debt. Most of the money goes on player remuneration

European soccer is a Ponzi scheme.
.

Porto have won three European trophies in this century, the Champions League in 2004 and the Europa League in 2003 and 2011

They're there again in the quarter-finals this year having knocked out Juventus

Ajax reached the semis two years ago knocking out Real Madrid and Juventus and should have reached the final

The big Dutch and Portuguese teams have particular business models, they sign the best young worldwide talent young and sell them on for big money, in weak years or with a bit of luck, in the Champions League they can sometimes nip in and go very deep into the competition

Portugal and Holland are also two of the greatest centres of footballing thought in the world and have a ready supply of good home grown talent

You're not wrong when you say that European football is a ponzi scheme, and the new Champions League format from 2023 or 24 or whenever will make that a lot worse - but Portugal/Holland v the League of Ireland, we're talking totally different levels of footballing backwaters here

You are now arguing against your own point.

A league not being a pinnacle is not a definition of a bad league or why people don't go through turnstyles

How so

Bad football is the definition of a bad league

I like to go to the odd game in Terryland Park and have a few pints in Hughes's afterwards but I'm not under any illusions that what I'm watching is elite football

I used to like to occasionally head up to Dalymount or down to Richmond Park

It has its charms

But it'll always be the Chicken League

In this country, people will attend Dublin v Kerry or Dublin v Mayo in their droves because they know what they are watching is the elite of the sport, and the occasions carry a massive weight of history

LOI just doesn't have that

[sid waddell]

Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team

Why not?

Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.

Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.

Last time I looked the LOI was ranked 37 in Europe

Bazunu left Ireland at 17 and it's a long time since those other players left the league

And bar Coleman they were all pretty much journeymen

Hoolahan was skilful alright but it took him a long, long time to work his way up to international level, he was into his 30s before he established himself

Players with ambition want out of the LOI and that's a major reason why it can't develop in terms of quality and why it doesn't attract spectator support

We are the 29th best populated country so slightly below whete we should be.

A list of players who left Dundalk and didn't or kinda made it was posited. I pointed out there is a list of players who left other clubs and did make it. Maybe its a Dundalk thing.

Players with ambition want out of every league bar the EPL, Serie A, La Liga and Budesliga and even then. It doesn't turn off Portugese or Dutch fans. Not accepting that.

Dutch teams have won six European Cups

Portuguese teams have won four European Cups

Not recently.  Soccer now is all about the concentration of money. The Dutch League is a feeder for the biggest Euro clubs. That Ajax team was broken up. Monaco had a decent run in the Champions League a few years ago. They were broken up. How long has it been since a team from Eastern Europe won the European Cup ? 30 years. Ajax was 95.

Barcelona have €1 billion in debt. Most of the money goes on player remuneration

European soccer is a Ponzi scheme.
.

Porto have won three European trophies in this century, the Champions League in 2004 and the Europa League in 2003 and 2011

They're there again in the quarter-finals this year having knocked out Juventus

Ajax reached the semis two years ago knocking out Real Madrid and Juventus and should have reached the final

The big Dutch and Portuguese teams have particular business models, they sign the best young worldwide talent young and sell them on for big money, in weak years or with a bit of luck, in the Champions League they can sometimes nip in and go very deep into the competition

Portugal and Holland are also two of the greatest centres of footballing thought in the world and have a ready supply of good home grown talent

You're not wrong when you say that European football is a ponzi scheme, and the new Champions League format from 2023 or 24 or whenever will make that a lot worse - but Portugal/Holland v the League of Ireland, we're talking totally different levels of footballing backwaters here

Obviously Portugal and Holland are on a different planet

But in the economic system everything is centralised - Dublin, Paris etc. And it is the exact same in European soccer.
So Ajax will never win the European Cup unless the system changes. I work with an Ajax fan. When they were doing well he had mixed feelings.  Great to see but he knew  the team would be broken up.

I don't disagree with you as regards the economic centralisation of football, we're heading for a situation where either the Premier League becomes the NBA of football or a European Super League, either of which will be terrible

In the current climate however, Ajax, Porto and a few others are able to remain relevant and competitive because there is a big enough talent pool of players worldwide for them to do so, as long as they're smart in how they go about their business

How long that will continue for I don't know

[seafoid]

Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team

Why not?

Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.

Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.

Last time I looked the LOI was ranked 37 in Europe

Bazunu left Ireland at 17 and it's a long time since those other players left the league

And bar Coleman they were all pretty much journeymen

Hoolahan was skilful alright but it took him a long, long time to work his way up to international level, he was into his 30s before he established himself

Players with ambition want out of the LOI and that's a major reason why it can't develop in terms of quality and why it doesn't attract spectator support

We are the 29th best populated country so slightly below whete we should be.

A list of players who left Dundalk and didn't or kinda made it was posited. I pointed out there is a list of players who left other clubs and did make it. Maybe its a Dundalk thing.

Players with ambition want out of every league bar the EPL, Serie A, La Liga and Budesliga and even then. It doesn't turn off Portugese or Dutch fans. Not accepting that.

Dutch teams have won six European Cups

Portuguese teams have won four European Cups

Not recently.  Soccer now is all about the concentration of money. The Dutch League is a feeder for the biggest Euro clubs. That Ajax team was broken up. Monaco had a decent run in the Champions League a few years ago. They were broken up. How long has it been since a team from Eastern Europe won the European Cup ? 30 years. Ajax was 95.

Barcelona have €1 billion in debt. Most of the money goes on player remuneration

European soccer is a Ponzi scheme.
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Porto have won three European trophies in this century, the Champions League in 2004 and the Europa League in 2003 and 2011

They're there again in the quarter-finals this year having knocked out Juventus

Ajax reached the semis two years ago knocking out Real Madrid and Juventus and should have reached the final

The big Dutch and Portuguese teams have particular business models, they sign the best young worldwide talent young and sell them on for big money, in weak years or with a bit of luck, in the Champions League they can sometimes nip in and go very deep into the competition

Portugal and Holland are also two of the greatest centres of footballing thought in the world and have a ready supply of good home grown talent

You're not wrong when you say that European football is a ponzi scheme, and the new Champions League format from 2023 or 24 or whenever will make that a lot worse - but Portugal/Holland v the League of Ireland, we're talking totally different levels of footballing backwaters here

Obviously Portugal and Holland are on a different planet

But in the economic system everything is centralised - Dublin, Paris etc. And it is the exact same in European soccer.
So Ajax will never win the European Cup unless the system changes. I work with an Ajax fan. When they were doing well he had mixed feelings.  Great to see but he knew  the team would be broken up.

I don't disagree with you as regards the economic centralisation of football, we're heading for a situation where either the Premier League becomes the NBA of football or a European Super League, either of which will be terrible

In the current climate however, Ajax, Porto and a few others are able to remain relevant and competitive because there is a big enough talent pool of players worldwide for them to do so, as long as they're smart in how they go about their business

How long that will continue for I don't know

They will be competitive but they won't win anything. It's very different to 95 when Ajax last won.
The richest clubs win the Champions League. Apart from Man City and PSG, of course.

https://www.goal.com/en-au/news/which-are-the-worlds-richest-football-clubs-in-2021/

In the 80s, Forest, Hamburg, PSV, Aston Villa and Steaua all won. Like hurling in the 90s with Clare and Offaly.
Impossible now with Real and Bayern etc in charge,

[laoislad]

Finding Jack Charlton on Virgin Media 1 now.

[imtommygunn]

Should they even have to choose at 16 / 17?

I think when you get to that age the demands of sport means its hard to do mote than one. I dont think they should be forced to choose but I think it will be something the teen will have to consider.

Pretty much the same as a strong dual player I imagine. (If you were on both county minor panels for example I imagine it would be tough).

[Itchy]

Finding Jack Charlton on Virgin Media 1 now.

Really powerful show. So many good times and so sad to see Jack so frail and lost his memories at the end. But why was Brendan O Carroll on it?
We've fallen some distance since then when we were a hated opponent for all the best teams in the world.