FAI...New Manager Hunt continues

[shark]

True, and less countries in general. 1 Yugoslavia. 1 USSR.

But if the Eoin Hand team were playing at that time in a 7 team group, with 1 to qualify and 1 to go to playoffs, they'd definitely have made a few tournaments.

That was the point I was attempting to make. It is easier now in that respect.

[JPGJOHNNYG]

We played awful under Kerr didn't beat anyone inside the top 100 in the world. Blew 2006 with the home and away games against Israel. The sitting back to defend a 1-0 though isn't just a Kerr thing we still do it. We dont have the guile to look for a second when in control.

[AZOffaly]

True, and less countries in general. 1 Yugoslavia. 1 USSR.

But if the Eoin Hand team were playing at that time in a 7 team group, with 1 to qualify and 1 to go to playoffs, they'd definitely have made a few tournaments.

That was the point I was attempting to make. It is easier now in that respect.

Sorry, yes, I didn't mean to put in the 'But'.

[shark]

We played awful under Kerr didn't beat anyone inside the top 100 in the world. Blew 2006 with the home and away games against Israel. The sitting back to defend a 1-0 though isn't just a Kerr thing we still do it. We dont have the guile to look for a second when in control.

Think we were actually 2 up at home to Israel. One of the strikers got injured before half time, and he brought on a midfielder.
Away game was unlucky. Didn't look like conceding until the goal was scored, with almost the last kick.

[seafoid]

I get the impression Martin O Neill is a bit like Joe Schmidt. Most of the players are journeymen so there isn't much scope for creativity or flair .

[Jim_Murphy_74]

Don't forget as well, pre 1990 it was more difficult to qualify for tournaments. Only 8 teams in Euro 88.

Euro 88: 8 teams out of 32 finalists, ie 25%
Euro 16: 24 teams out of 53, ie almost 50%

So arguably it's almost twice as easy these days!  Plus having to win the group removed much of the margin for error.

/Jim

[ballinaman]

We played awful under Kerr didn't beat anyone inside the top 100 in the world. Blew 2006 with the home and away games against Israel. The sitting back to defend a 1-0 though isn't just a Kerr thing we still do it. We dont have the guile to look for a second when in control.

Always fascinated by the RTÉ panel use of this word.....

[mouview]

Ireland are always a dour watch.Even with a first choice team out.
We play dour direct long ball football that's horrible to watch but seem to grind out enough results to be there or thereabouts as regards qualification for most tournaments.
That's Irish football & has been for most of my time watching the Irish team.
Getting to the stage now for the first time where I am beginning to think about not bothering watching the games anymore.
It's just so hard to watch that style of football.

I'd say it's alway's been that way. Don't know how long you've been watching though. The difference now between how top club sides play and international teams play is more marked than it used to be. Back in the day we were not exposed to likes of Barcelona that much either. And we only saw likes of Zico, Socrates, Maradonna every four years. So an Irish, English, Scottish game would not be much different than watching Liverpool, Leeds, etc. on MOTD. Tackles, crosses (often from closer  half way line than corner flag) passes back to keeper when they could pick them up etc. Really it is all about a result and qualification.
I admit I struggle with it as well though. Saipan did something to me I'm afraid. I still cant get my head around how something like that could have happened.

In fairness I think historically Ireland would have been seen as more like Scotland, in terms of flair. It wasn't all dogged determination. Scotland were renowned for their wingers. Ireland had the likes of Liam Brady, Tony Grealish, Johnny Giles, etc. I think Ireland's problem back then was that they didn't qualify playing that type of football, agonisingly so a couple of times under Eoin Hand, and therefore they changed tack with Big Jack. Jack didn't bother his arse worrying about styles, and brought in the more pragmatic northern English work till you drop and you'll beat a better team.

Without trying to be revisionist, when you look at the team Jack had, with McGrath, Whelan, Lawrenson, Brady, O'Leary, Irwin, Staunton, Houghton, Aldridge, Sheedy etc, they could have approached the games an awful lot differently, and probably still had very good success. Remember only for Gary McKay, Euro 88 doesn't happen, and that was the springboard that gave Jack the remit to continue in that vein.

McCarthy tried to be more cultured, with the likes of Keane II, Duff etc, but Saipan scuppered that. Brian Kerr also likes to pass the ball around, but he's too conservative in nature, and his teams just sat back and invited trouble whenever they went ahead. Plus the great generation was definitely gone in his time.  Trappatoni then was like JAck on steroids. He didn't trust the players, and didn't really want to have a go either. At least Jack wanted to be aggressive.

O'Neill seems to me to be more like maybe McCarthy, with a dose of Kerr.

Poor old Stan seems to have been air-brushed out of history   

[dec]

Without trying to be revisionist, when you look at the team Jack had, with McGrath, Whelan, Lawrenson, Brady, O'Leary, Irwin, Staunton, Houghton, Aldridge, Sheedy etc, they could have approached the games an awful lot differently, and probably still had very good success.

In 1988 Liverpool won the league, Man U were second and Celtic won their league. 8 out of 11 of the starting lineup played for those three clubs.

[seafoid]

Ireland are always a dour watch.Even with a first choice team out.
We play dour direct long ball football that's horrible to watch but seem to grind out enough results to be there or thereabouts as regards qualification for most tournaments.
That's Irish football & has been for most of my time watching the Irish team.
Getting to the stage now for the first time where I am beginning to think about not bothering watching the games anymore.
It's just so hard to watch that style of football.

I'd say it's alway's been that way. Don't know how long you've been watching though. The difference now between how top club sides play and international teams play is more marked than it used to be. Back in the day we were not exposed to likes of Barcelona that much either. And we only saw likes of Zico, Socrates, Maradonna every four years. So an Irish, English, Scottish game would not be much different than watching Liverpool, Leeds, etc. on MOTD. Tackles, crosses (often from closer  half way line than corner flag) passes back to keeper when they could pick them up etc. Really it is all about a result and qualification.
I admit I struggle with it as well though. Saipan did something to me I'm afraid. I still cant get my head around how something like that could have happened.

In fairness I think historically Ireland would have been seen as more like Scotland, in terms of flair. It wasn't all dogged determination. Scotland were renowned for their wingers. Ireland had the likes of Liam Brady, Tony Grealish, Johnny Giles, etc. I think Ireland's problem back then was that they didn't qualify playing that type of football, agonisingly so a couple of times under Eoin Hand, and therefore they changed tack with Big Jack. Jack didn't bother his arse worrying about styles, and brought in the more pragmatic northern English work till you drop and you'll beat a better team.

Without trying to be revisionist, when you look at the team Jack had, with McGrath, Whelan, Lawrenson, Brady, O'Leary, Irwin, Staunton, Houghton, Aldridge, Sheedy etc, they could have approached the games an awful lot differently, and probably still had very good success. Remember only for Gary McKay, Euro 88 doesn't happen, and that was the springboard that gave Jack the remit to continue in that vein.

McCarthy tried to be more cultured, with the likes of Keane II, Duff etc, but Saipan scuppered that. Brian Kerr also likes to pass the ball around, but he's too conservative in nature, and his teams just sat back and invited trouble whenever they went ahead. Plus the great generation was definitely gone in his time.  Trappatoni then was like JAck on steroids. He didn't trust the players, and didn't really want to have a go either. At least Jack wanted to be aggressive.

O'Neill seems to me to be more like maybe McCarthy, with a dose of Kerr.

Poor old Stan seems to have been air-brushed out of history   

I was thinking the same. And he was the gaffer

[Main Street]

Without trying to be revisionist, when you look at the team Jack had, with McGrath, Whelan, Lawrenson, Brady, O'Leary, Irwin, Staunton, Houghton, Aldridge, Sheedy etc, they could have approached the games an awful lot differently, and probably still had very good success.

In 1988 Liverpool won the league, Man U were second and Celtic won their league. 8 out of 11 of the starting lineup played for those three clubs.

Charlton inherited the best group of players we ever had, they just needed a stronger manager than Hand who was totally out of his depth as a coach, even admitted it himself. Then Charlton added two key players in Aldridge and Houghton.

Another factor with our players is them (bloody) "foreign" players taking our places in the top teams, since satellite tv money poured in.

[imtommygunn]

It is even becoming a problem for england now too.

[JPGJOHNNYG]

Without trying to be revisionist, when you look at the team Jack had, with McGrath, Whelan, Lawrenson, Brady, O'Leary, Irwin, Staunton, Houghton, Aldridge, Sheedy etc, they could have approached the games an awful lot differently, and probably still had very good success.

In 1988 Liverpool won the league, Man U were second and Celtic won their league. 8 out of 11 of the starting lineup played for those three clubs.

Charlton inherited the best group of players we ever had, they just needed a stronger manager than Hand who was totally out of his depth as a coach, even admitted it himself. Then Charlton added two key players in Aldridge and Houghton.

Another factor with our players is them (bloody) "foreign" players taking our places in the top teams, since satellite tv money poured in.

The last point is the key and the lack of quality in the second string is frightening. We are relying on championship players now and it will only get worse but this isnt just our problem England are fairly fecked now as well hence the rather bizarre tug of war over Grealish who turned out to be pretty sh1te.

[Main Street]

Without trying to be revisionist, when you look at the team Jack had, with McGrath, Whelan, Lawrenson, Brady, O'Leary, Irwin, Staunton, Houghton, Aldridge, Sheedy etc, they could have approached the games an awful lot differently, and probably still had very good success.

In 1988 Liverpool won the league, Man U were second and Celtic won their league. 8 out of 11 of the starting lineup played for those three clubs.

Charlton inherited the best group of players we ever had, they just needed a stronger manager than Hand who was totally out of his depth as a coach, even admitted it himself. Then Charlton added two key players in Aldridge and Houghton.

Another factor with our players is them (bloody) "foreign" players taking our places in the top teams, since satellite tv money poured in.

The last point is the key and the lack of quality in the second string is frightening. We are relying on championship players now and it will only get worse but this isnt just our problem England are fairly fecked now as well hence the rather bizarre tug of war over Grealish who turned out to be pretty sh1te.

I'd say it's a factor but it's not the full explanation for Ireland's issues, not by far.
Ireland were made to look grossly incompetent by a sparsely populated island nation who also gave them an abject lesson on how to play the game according to your strengths.
None of those Iceland players are playing at a high level, that was mainly  their 2nd team, yet they were more comfortable on the ball, their midfield got on the ball and brought it forward or passed it onto their front men. The 2 forwards worked really hard, could hold onto the ball and pass it on to incoming midfield support. Their full backs were quick up to support the attack and then defend. They played the game with a solid strong team ethic.
Ireland were a team without a design, a haphazard collection of players.

[illdecide]

Everton manager Ronald Koeman has accused Republic of Ireland counterpart Martin O'Neill of "not protecting" James McCarthy as their row over the midfielder's fitness continues.

McCarthy, 26, missed Everton's past two matches but linked up with the Republic squad in the international break.

He suffered a recurrence of a hamstring injury, ruling him out of Saturday's derby at Liverpool.

"We advised extreme caution. He was not fit to play," said Koeman.

McCarthy was named in O'Neill's starting line-up for the 0-0 draw against Wales but pulled out of the team after suffering an injury in the warm-up.

The Toffees boss, clearly angered by the ongoing issue, read out a prepared statement at a news conference on Friday.

McCarthy has made just five starts for Everton since the end of August.

Koeman said before the international break that the midfielder was "one or two weeks" away from fitness.

"In my opinion, the Ireland manager in this instance was not protecting the player," he said.

In October, the Dutchman said McCarthy, who has been struggling with a hamstring injury for several months, had been "massively overloaded" by the Republic.

That came in response to O'Neill's claim that Koeman was "bleating" about the matter.

Former Republic midfielder Roy Keane, O'Neill's assistant, then said Everton players must "toughen up".