FAI...New Manager Hunt continues

[thewobbler]

Belgium still haven't achieved diddly squat with their supposed youth programme. One swallow doesn't make a summer and they have yet to prove anything. It's only if they produce another generation of top class players after this one, then they're worth benchmarking against.

They, as a small nation, have produced an international team that will qualify for the World Cup, and a generation of top class players.  I don't think they can aspire to win it, but I think they'll give a good account of themselves.  And I think that their system, like that of their neighbours Holland, will keep producing good players. 

So they've achieved what Ireland did in 2002 then? Does that make Ireland trendsetters?

Let's wait and see if they do it again before heaping praise on Belgium.

[imtommygunn]

Pre 2002 we were competing to a high level in european and world u18 / u20 tournaments.

Was that just good fortune and a good crop of players at that age or were there structures in place which haven't been maintained??

[Zulu]

Belgium still haven't achieved diddly squat with their supposed youth programme. One swallow doesn't make a summer and they have yet to prove anything. It's only if they produce another generation of top class players after this one, then they're worth benchmarking against.

They, as a small nation, have produced an international team that will qualify for the World Cup, and a generation of top class players.  I don't think they can aspire to win it, but I think they'll give a good account of themselves.  And I think that their system, like that of their neighbours Holland, will keep producing good players. 

So they've achieved what Ireland did in 2002 then? Does that make Ireland trendsetters?

Let's wait and see if they do it again before heaping praise on Belgium.

How many of that panel were produced by the Irish underage development program and how many were picked up through the granny rule?

[Billys Boots]

Belgium still haven't achieved diddly squat with their supposed youth programme. One swallow doesn't make a summer and they have yet to prove anything. It's only if they produce another generation of top class players after this one, then they're worth benchmarking against.

They, as a small nation, have produced an international team that will qualify for the World Cup, and a generation of top class players.  I don't think they can aspire to win it, but I think they'll give a good account of themselves.  And I think that their system, like that of their neighbours Holland, will keep producing good players. 

So they've achieved what Ireland did in 2002 then? Does that make Ireland trendsetters?

Let's wait and see if they do it again before heaping praise on Belgium.

I haven't heaped praise on Belgium, I simply stated that they got their scouting, emerging talent and coaching programme back where it should have been after years in the international wilderness. 

I wouldn't agree that Ireland 2002 is comparable to Belgium 2013, but that's your prerogative. 

[thewobbler]

To be honest I think these things are just cyclical in smaller countries.

Czech Republic in the 70s. Poland in early 80s. Croatia had a golden generation late 90s early 00s and were a match for anyone. Romania the same a generation before, Bulgaria overlapped them both for a while. Denmark in 1992, and Norway at the end of the 90s, all hit their greatest highs before falling to relative obscurity. The point being that the secret to any of these successes was not a brilliant manager, a brilliant league system, or a brilliant youth setup. Instead they all got a number of top class players at once, and back filled with useful players.

Ireland are currently on the lowest part of the cycle. I honestly believe the best thing a manager can do for the next 4-5 years is keep the coefficient as high as possible and morale as high as possible, so that when a few good players come along, they don't have a mountain to climb early in their international careers.


I mentioned Scotland earlier in this thread. They qualified for umpteen major tournaments from 1974 to 2004. And in a decade they've disappeared without trace, and their best players want to play for Ireland instead. Mad stuff. But that's what will happen if we pretend we can compete on an even keel.

Tommygunn, see my earlier post above. Too much is made of the value of youth systems, managers and leagues in the press. It's just people looking for angles that don't exist.

Don't get me wrong, a brilliant youth system or a brilliant manager can provide an edge, and make a difference when everything else appears equal. But it's natural ability - and in particular when you get a cluster of players through together at once with natural ability - that's the big difference. This isn't just about little countries either. France have produced quality players forever, but they've only been serious contenders for honours twice; once when Zidane and Henry ruled the roost, once when Platini and Tigana ruled the roost. Spain were underachievers forever, until Xavi and Iniesta came of age. Every country has a natural level depending on its size (and passion for football), and I believe its genuinely down to a few stars aligning that allows them to exceed that level.


Zulu, the Irish in 2002 had a few blow-ins, but the heart of the team - Given, Harte, Staunton, Kelly, Finnan, Duff, Keane, Quinn - were Irish born. So would the other Keane have been.

[ludermor]

Belgium still haven't achieved diddly squat with their supposed youth programme. One swallow doesn't make a summer and they have yet to prove anything. It's only if they produce another generation of top class players after this one, then they're worth benchmarking against.

They might not have achieved anything yet but they have certainly produced a level of player significantly higher  than any Irish since since the 80's , is there any of the Belgian players below who wouldn't make the Irish team and how many Irish would make the Belgian team?
With the age profile of the players below and the current level they are playing at it would be disappointing if they dont make an impact at a few major finals.


Simon Mignolet   age25 Liverpool
Thibaut Courtois   age21   Chelsea/ Atletico Madrid
Nicolas Lombaerts    age28   Zenit
Thomas Vermaelen   age27   Arsenal
Vincent Kompany   age27   Manchester City
Jan Vertonghen   age26   Tottenham
Luis Pedro Cavanda   age22   Lazio
Moussa Dembele   age25   Tottenham
Steven Defour   age25   Porto
Axel Witsel   age24   Zenit
Marouane Fellaini   age25    Man Utd
Eden Hazard   age22   Chelsea
Kevin De Bruyne   age22   Bremen
Kevin Mirrallas age 25 Everton
Christian Benteke   age22   Aston Villa
Romelu Lukaku   age20   Chelsea / Everton

[rodney trotter]

Article about the Belgians  http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&ved=0CEcQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.esquire.co.uk%2Fculture%2Ffeatures%2F3834%2Fwhy-belgium-has-the-most-exciting-footballers-in-the-world%2F&ei=TN4yUvOvBMnF7AaR8YGQBQ&usg=AFQjCNHAbjDh4tgdYK6iuV0aeHA7WcjK_A

[qubdub]

Belgium still haven't achieved diddly squat with their supposed youth programme. One swallow doesn't make a summer and they have yet to prove anything. It's only if they produce another generation of top class players after this one, then they're worth benchmarking against.

They, as a small nation, have produced an international team that will qualify for the World Cup, and a generation of top class players.  I don't think they can aspire to win it, but I think they'll give a good account of themselves.  And I think that their system, like that of their neighbours Holland, will keep producing good players. 

So they've achieved what Ireland did in 2002 then? Does that make Ireland trendsetters?

Let's wait and see if they do it again before heaping praise on Belgium.

Belgium qualified for all WCs between 82 and 02. If anything they went through a bit of a lull in the 00s.

That's a good article rodney, touches on the influence players from immigrant-backgrounds have had on the European soccer scene, similar story in Germany and to a lesser extend England.

[nrico2006]

Has there not been some good Irish results recently against top nations in the u-17s or u-19s?

[rodney trotter]

The 17's made the European Championship in March, didn't make it out of the group.  Beaten 3-0 by Slovakia recently in a friendly, different team from March.

u19's made the Elite stages of the Uefa European Championships last year. u21 side were beaten well by Germany during the week.

[deiseach]

The Irish footballing public so beloved of Dunphy can't be arsed going to watch their local team, a charge that cannot be laid at the feet of the Belgian football public. In short, f**k them.

[Bingo]

These new Belguim players may be the in-thing at the moment but none of them would lace the boots of the great Enzo Scifo. Apart from his ultra cool name, he could play. 

[Bensars]

An element of  belgiums success is in uniformity across all leagues and age profiles.

Someone on radio last week ( cant remember who) saying that the the football authorities wrote to all clubs in belgium football asking them to all play 4-3-3 and to favour native players whenever possible.  Most if not all clubs have adopted the request and Belgium football has been enjoying the results since.   If you compare that to Ireland and many other countries, whereby there seems a very mixed message on gameplan between different games, managers, leagues and age platforms.

Fair enough if you dont have the personel in regards of skill etc, but if all know their role, which is replicated consistently it will certainly put you in a stronger position.

[mouview]

These new Belguim players may be the in-thing at the moment but none of them would lace the boots of the great Enzo Scifo. Apart from his ultra cool name, he could play.

Oh yeah.  Belgium were robbed v England at Italia '90. Played them off the park with Scifo hitting the inside of a post if I remember. The whole Gazza circus might never have been had Belgium won that as they should.

They weren't bad in '86 either with Ceulemans leading the attack.

[nrico2006]

The 17's made the European Championship in March, didn't make it out of the group.  Beaten 3-0 by Slovakia recently in a friendly, different team from March.

u19's made the Elite stages of the Uefa European Championships last year. u21 side were beaten well by Germany during the week.

I see the u-21's got beat well, but think it was the u-21s that beat Italy 4-2 away a few months ago too.