FAI...New Manager Hunt continues

[Billys Boots]

Irish players who knock their pans in for 60 mins should also be able to keep up those energy levels for the last 30 mins.

So professional footballers whose stock-in-trade is a high-tempo game and workrate shouldn't be expected to do so at home for 90 mins against a side to whom that type of game is foreign.  This isn't amateur junior-level gaelic football for under-10s. 

[rodney trotter]

Wobbler, who cares if Hoolahan played with Livingston, Blackpool, that was then, this is now. He has proved he can play in the Premier League, and is a creative player. We don't have many players like him.

Whatever about Doyle's form at International, he far way more suited to playing alongside Long than throwing in Connor Sammon, in a vital game. Doyle has a lot more ability than Samon. It was Doyle who saved Ireland in Kazakhtsan.

[thewobbler]

Irish players who knock their pans in for 60 mins should also be able to keep up those energy levels for the last 30 mins.

So professional footballers whose stock-in-trade is a high-tempo game and workrate shouldn't be expected to do so at home for 90 mins against a side to whom that type of game is foreign.  This isn't amateur junior-level gaelic football for under-10s. 

That's a question for the club managers and coaches though Billy. In an ideal world we'd love to expect our professional athletes to maintain a high tempo game for 90 mins. In the real world, most of them don't do it week in, week out, and don't train for it (let alone have the attitude to carry it off, but that's a different story). It's not Trap's fault; he only has them for 4-6 weeks a year. He can only use 3 subs. Which means if we want to play high tempo football, then many of the players are going to be wilting at the end.

[deiseach]

• Protecting a lead by dropping everyone behind the ball is an archaic tactic, and Chelsea are not the reigning Champions of Europe based on that principle.

This one wrecks my head. Giles and Dunphy have been chundering on about this for over a quarter of a century now, the idea that when you take the lead you then MUST attack more or you are DOOMED to concede a goal. This isn't analysis, it's moralising.

[thewobbler]

Wobbler, who cares if Hoolahan played with Livingston, Blackpool, that was then, this is now. He has proved he can play in the Premier League, and is a creative player. We don't have many players like him.

Whatever about Doyle's form at International, he far way more suited to playing alongside Long than throwing in Connor Sammon, in a vital game. Doyle has a lot more ability than Samon. It was Doyle who saved Ireland in Kazakhtsan.

I feel sorry for Wes. As expectation levels have been raised to the roof, and people are now imagining him as a cross between Messi and Pirlo based on a few clips from MotD, Hoolahan can only disappoint at international level. He's a good player, but the reason why I mention his clubs is simple: he has never been approached by anything close to a big club. So even if somehow every scouting network in Europe has overlooked this talent, we still have no idea if he has the temperament for international football.

As for Doyle, i agree, he's a much tidier player than Sammon. But if I was a Wolves fan I'd be kind of wondering how bad Sammon must be, as Doyle's scoring returns for Wolves have been abysmal.

[rodney trotter]

Don't think we were comparing him to Pirlo, as for not getting spotted by a bigger club. Maybe they didn't want to take a gamble on him, as he he in the later stages of his career playing for Norwich after coming from Blackpool via Scotland. Not the same as spotting a 20 year old playing with Spurs.

He has the talent, I was at the Greece friendly when he came on and the play went through him. He was getting on the ball and being positive, the same as when he came on against Poland in Feburay, scoring a cracking goal in the process. Trappatoni has overlooked him for too long.

[Billys Boots]

Irish players who knock their pans in for 60 mins should also be able to keep up those energy levels for the last 30 mins.

So professional footballers whose stock-in-trade is a high-tempo game and workrate shouldn't be expected to do so at home for 90 mins against a side to whom that type of game is foreign.  This isn't amateur junior-level gaelic football for under-10s. 

That's a question for the club managers and coaches though Billy. In an ideal world we'd love to expect our professional athletes to maintain a high tempo game for 90 mins. In the real world, most of them don't do it week in, week out, and don't train for it (let alone have the attitude to carry it off, but that's a different story). It's not Trap's fault; he only has them for 4-6 weeks a year. He can only use 3 subs. Which means if we want to play high tempo football, then many of the players are going to be wilting at the end.

The English game, where our lads play, in the main, is played at a high tempo week-in, week-out, relative to the European game in general - my point was that this should prepare our lads professionally for that type of game on a 90 minute basis.

I hear you too - to me Trap's rationale appears to be that because we Irish are so backward technically, our only gameplan should be to play (at home) in a way that frustrates the opposition (i.e. high tempo), but only until we get ahead.  Then we hand the initiative back to the opposition for the remainder of the game, irrespective of how this pans out, in terms of the result.  That's not a strategy; that's an insult.

[behind the wire]

Poor management lost last night's game. Tired legs meant we couldnt hold the ball up front. Walters was out on his feet and continually gave the ball away as a result including the play which led to the equaliser. refusal to bring on a fresh pair of legs up front cost us in the end.

[Bingo]

The clearest thing to me today is there's a huge amount of Irish football fans who live in a parallel world where reality isn't incumbent. The kind of place where:

• Ireland are not just underachieving with their current band of journeyman players, but are an absolute disgrace.
• The answer to every problem is Wes Hoolohan. That's Wes Hoolahan of Norwich, formerly of Blackpool, Livingston and Shelbourne.
• Protecting a lead by dropping everyone behind the ball is an archaic tactic, and Chelsea are not the reigning Champions of Europe based on that principle.
• A selection policy of players in form shouldn't apply if your name is Kevin Doyle
• Irish players who knock their pans in for 60 mins should also be able to keep up those energy levels for the last 30 mins.
• Ireland were denied a very good result not by deflected goal, but by shocking tactics.
• The very reason that shot got away was not the midfield's fault, but in fact Trapatonni's fault, even though he had reinforced the midfield with Paul Green.

Unrealistic and unfair expectations chaps.

Couldn't disagree with much of that. For Wes Hoolahan read Andy Reid, James McCarthy, Marc Wilson, Seamus Coleman in the past.

Saying that, the centre midfield was crying out for a change, Green came on but played wide with Walters moving upfront, he'd have been as well just slotting in. No one knows if any change would have made a difference, as it was always likely that Austria would have a chance and would push for the leveller and its natural instincts to drop a bit and take less risks when you in the lead.

Still a disappointing result and blame has to be shared rather than all pointed at the stubborn old goat on the line.

[Declan]

The clearest thing to me today is there's a huge amount of Irish football fans who live in a parallel world where reality isn't incumbent. The kind of place where:

Ireland are not just underachieving with their current band of journeyman players, but are an absolute disgrace.

Not a disgrace but definitely underachieving when compared to the teams in our group - bar Germany the others are pretty average and we should be capable of beating them.

The answer to every problem is Wes Hoolohan. That's Wes Hoolahan of Norwich, formerly of Blackpool, Livingston and Shelbourne.

No the answer to every problem isn't Wes but it was fairly obvious last night that in order to stop the flow of possession towards us in the last 30 mins we needed an extra player in the middle to try and get on the ball and keep possession. In the current set up Holohan is our best option of that and Trap's failure to see it is crazy

Protecting a lead by dropping everyone behind the ball is an archaic tactic, and Chelsea are not the reigning Champions of Europe based on that principle.

Again not an archaic tactic but its more prone to going wrong than the opposite one of trying to keep possession of the ball to deny the opposition the opportunity of scoring. Traps instincts are to defend deep particularly when "protecting" a lead. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't but against a team like Austria who are no world beaters it just gives them confidence when they were beaten. Can be justified if you're playing a top team (eg anyone v Barcelona)but madness last night

A selection policy of players in form shouldn't apply if your name is Kevin Doyle

again irrespective of current form Kevin Doyle on one leg with a blindfold on is a better option than Conor Sammon

Irish players who knock their pans in for 60 mins should also be able to keep up those energy levels for the last 30 mins

I could agree with that to an extent but what makes them tired is the fact that are a chasing the ball rather than making the opponents do the chasing so again a direct result of conceding possession

Ireland were denied a very good result not by deflected goal, but by shocking tactics.

A combination of a few things as I said in my earlier post contributed to the result and yes the tactics were one of them .

The very reason that shot got away was not the midfield's fault, but in fact Trapatonni's fault, even though he had reinforced the midfield with Paul Green

.

No that deflection was one of those things that happens in a game. We shouldn't have been in the position to defend it if we had done other things properly. so the deflection wasn't Traps fault no more than Clark's error was his fault.

Unrealistic and unfair expectations chaps.

Not at all. We shouldn't expect to beat Austria at home when leading 2-1 at HT? Of course we should and I hold Trap more responsible than the players for the result last night as he's the one who sets the tone and who directs how we play. Everyone makes individual errors during the game but somehow people think the great Italian maestro is immune from them. Give me a break

[illdecide]

I think to be fair it's a bit of both lads...Trap is def stuck in his old ways and is reluctant to change, his tactics can be a bit naive for a man of his experience. But, we have to have a reality check here too FFS. We don't have the players and have punched above our weight for ages and that's a compliment to both players and managers where the Irish spirt/drive/determination etc has pushed us to greater things than expected. We've always had a few exceptional players in with a group of determined lads who pull their weight but not anymore. There is no-one exceptional on that Ireland team at the moment, just a bunch of average footballers giving their all for their country and the only way we're going to improve is if a new manager comes in and starts with the younger players and hopefully unearths a few hidden talents that may be on the horizon...

[deiseach]

Not a disgrace but definitely underachieving when compared to the teams in our group - bar Germany the others are pretty average and we should be capable of beating them.

I'd say the Austrians and the Swedes feel exactly the same way when comparing themselves to Ireland.

[Declan]

I'd say the Austrians and the Swedes feel exactly the same way when comparing themselves to Ireland.

I'm sure they do that's why I said capable of beating them rather than assuming we can just turn up and do it

[deiseach]

I'd say the Austrians and the Swedes feel exactly the same way when comparing themselves to Ireland.

I'm sure they do that's why I said capable of beating them rather than assuming we can just turn up and do it

Then why do you think we are 'underachieving'?

[Declan]

Ah Jaysus Deiseach do I have to explain again???

All 3 teams have genuine belief that they could finish second behind Germany but in terms of us and the players we have available to us when you are 2-1 up at home against a team like Austria and end up throwing it away like we did for the reasons I've explained then I think I can say we underachieved.