Fermanagh are bad for the game?

[Mike Sheehy]

I'd say he only said it to annoy Mike Sheehy.

http://sports.setanta.com/en/Sport/News/Other-sports/2008/07/07/GAA-Cooney-on-Ulster/

If I can find an email address for him and I will set him straight ! We cant have the new president sucking up to Ulster 

[haranguerer]

Ahh Wanderer. Lose that inferiority complex. Look where we are. In an Ulster Final. Look where most of those who are posting are, and try and feel some pity. It takes a long time to get momentum in the Qualifiers.

I'm honestly not bothered by what we haven't won in the past. This is the year that matters, not next, not last. The past is only a comfort when you're doing shit in the present. Same goes for the future.

The only time it has ever had a direct impact on me was when I was in a pub in Clones looking over at a crowd of Monaghan ones chanting 'If you've won an Ulster title clap your hands.' I felt embarrassed for them, for they were making a holy show of themselves.

This year, discounting Armagh for a minute, we would beat any other team in Ulster. And they know it. Thats why they are on here giving out. Because we shouldn't be beating every other team in Ulster. The order is changing, even if only for a little while, and I can smell the fear.

As for Armagh. I think they'll win Sam again in the next 2/3 years. I really rate them. McDonnells a shrewd boy. But we can beat them. And its not the way we could beat teams in the past - that is if we played out of our skins and they didnt turn up. If we perform reasonably well against them we'll win.

I dont give a f**k if theres 30 other counties cheering for us or not. I hope there are - its brilliant to be popular (I hear), but I'd much rather be a winner, and not so that '0' is wiped from the record, its so I can adopt the patronising arrogant attitude that I have learnt from other teams fans over the years.

As you can see, I've been practising. Reckon I'm getting pretty good too  

Cos thats what its all about.

[ONeill]

I wish posters from Fermanagh would stop posting on this thread. It is heartbreaking reading their cute mindsets. Ach I hope they win it, God bless them.

[Bulwinkle]

I`m not from Fermanagh, but ONeill you are a tosser of the highest degree.  To think..on the weekend of the Ulster Final...Tyrone are playing Louth.

[dodgyrightfoot]

haha oneill ure some craic and as for saffron sam..support away at armagh..ya know why? cos i cudnt care less wot ya do! ill b standin in clones as a proud fermanagh man and goin and drinkin the head of myself after it..you can come bak on here and post ure wee winding up comments and be all pleased with urself..everyones happy!

[wanderer]

Ahh Wanderer. Lose that inferiority complex. Look where we are. In an Ulster Final. Look where most of those who are posting are, and try and feel some pity. It takes a long time to get momentum in the Qualifiers.

I'm honestly not bothered by what we haven't won in the past. This is the year that matters, not next, not last. The past is only a comfort when you're doing shit in the present. Same goes for the future.

The only time it has ever had a direct impact on me was when I was in a pub in Clones looking over at a crowd of Monaghan ones chanting 'If you've won an Ulster title clap your hands.' I felt embarrassed for them, for they were making a holy show of themselves.

This year, discounting Armagh for a minute, we would beat any other team in Ulster. And they know it. Thats why they are on here giving out. Because we shouldn't be beating every other team in Ulster. The order is changing, even if only for a little while, and I can smell the fear.

As for Armagh. I think they'll win Sam again in the next 2/3 years. I really rate them. McDonnells a shrewd boy. But we can beat them. And its not the way we could beat teams in the past - that is if we played out of our skins and they didnt turn up. If we perform reasonably well against them we'll win.

I dont give a f**k if theres 30 other counties cheering for us or not. I hope there are - its brilliant to be popular (I hear), but I'd much rather be a winner, and not so that '0' is wiped from the record, its so I can adopt the patronising arrogant attitude that I have learnt from other teams fans over the years.

As you can see, I've been practising. Reckon I'm getting pretty good too 

Cos thats what its all about.

Haranguerer, couldn't agree with the bulk of your message more. I far from have an inferiority complex, I would just like people to be a bit consistent with there arguments as to why we are suddenly bad for the GAA. Thay make a stupid statement, get called up for it and there next defence is something like

'I wish posters from Fermanagh would stop posting on this thread. Its heartbreaking reading their cute mindsets. Ach I hope they win it, God bless them'

A load of crap that covers them both ways so if Armagh win they can say how they knew all along as defence, and if Fermanagh win they wanted them to

As for the rest of your post you are spot on. I fully rate Armagh as well, but I don't think we need them to have an off day for the win. I am confident of the result, and as you say history and support counts for nothing once the game starts. So i'll go away and lay down again and let them get on with it

[FermGael]

Great song.  FANTASTIC FERMANAGH.  We are a talented bunch.
we might be bad for the game but Q 101.2 is going to love us

[Uladh]

the Armagh team of the previous year had a very similar style if not quite as intense where by usually three or four of their defenders would quickly surround the opponent in possession to block them from going forward and shutting down the space to release the ball

This is incorrect. armagh have obviously adapted since, as most teams have, but that 2002 defence were man for man great one on one tacklers partly because of their huge upper body strength. their wing forwards of McConville and McKeever certainly worked hard around the middle when they hadn't the ball but rarely dropped into defence like dooher, McGinley or Martin o'rourke would do. Armagh of that vintage were difficult to penetrate but because of their tackling ability, not because of any blanket defence.

[Will Hunting]

ONLY Tyrone and Armagh have consistently got further than Fermanagh in the AI series in the past 5 years. We have beat Down, Monaghan and Derry this year so far (only cause they weren't trying) and we have done it by running the ball up to the goal line and diving over like rugby palyers or by basketball passing up to 2 yrds and fisting it over the bar   What a load of shite

I assume you are talking about Ulster only counties here? I took issue with a similar comment already on this thread, and I would argue that both Donegal and Derry have consistently got further than Fermanagh in the AI series over the last 5 years.

[Uladh]

Na tram, armagh's defenders staying in their own defence right enough but the blanket requires half forwards and midfielders dropping into their own defence. by all accounts, armagh did little other than one on one tackling in training.

[wanderer]

ONLY Tyrone and Armagh have consistently got further than Fermanagh in the AI series in the past 5 years. We have beat Down, Monaghan and Derry this year so far (only cause they weren't trying) and we have done it by running the ball up to the goal line and diving over like rugby palyers or by basketball passing up to 2 yrds and fisting it over the bar   What a load of shite

I assume you are talking about Ulster only counties here? I took issue with a similar comment already on this thread, and I would argue that both Donegal and Derry have consistently got further than Fermanagh in the AI series over the last 5 years.

Yeah within the Ulster Counties. You can argue, but its not something I have pulled out of the air. While Derry & Donegal would generally gotten further in Ulster, they would then drop into the qualifiers and usually get beat while Fermanagh sneaked into last 12 or better.
Do you know where can you get the history of results, we could try to find out and find it beyond doubt?

[tyssam5]

One point about the criticism of Tyrone's style of defending in the 2003 All-Ireland Semi-Final is that the style behind it wasn't completely new - the Armagh team of the previous year had a very similar style if not quite as intense where by usually three or four of their defenders would quickly surround the opponent in possession to block them from going forward and shutting down the space to release the ball - if the opponent did get the ball away it was almost always to the nearest player whom didn't get too long themselves before they were closed down too. You would have thought that after being defeated in the 2002 All-Ireland football final O'Se would have learned from this but obviously he didn't. Paddy Tally took the Tyrone defence and got them to tackle the opponent in possession in a pack style as close to perfect within the rules as possible - there is no such rule preventing defenders surrounding the player in possession. Tyrone did nothing wrong that day except for Peter Canavan's antics into running into a Kerry defender's elbow for which there was no call for.

Which brings it on to the current Fermanagh system. Tyrone learned a while back that nice teams will only go so far. All teams that win All-Irelands have a streak in them to bend and occasionally break the rules, along with breaking the style of opponents play in which to get rewards from. The 1996 All-Ireland semi final against Meath to me is the turning point in the style of play that Tyrone teams in general have adopted and that simply going out to outscore teams wasn't good enough to land big prizes. Previous Fermanagh teams have had good skilful players and a nice style about them but had no killer instinct to break the spirit and game play of the teams they were facing. O'Rourke has come in, got the players into a system that plays to their strengths and does their homework on restricting their opponents chances. This is good planning, coaching and tactics. Their game against Derry in Omagh saw good fielding and score taking against a highly talked up Derry team that was rudderless and believed their own hype. The question will be wherever this formula will be enough against an Armagh side that is unlikely to be as complacent as Derry were or as much as a one-season blow off as Monaghan appear to be?

Is it pretty to watch? Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder and anyone is right to question wherever the style of play adopted by a winning team gives scope for the future of the game as a spectacle at the highest level. I'm pretty sure that those associated with Fermanagh will not care one bit and nor should they. The only problem I have with the current game in general is players getting frees too easily and fooling referees into giving it to them. For the Erne men, the tactics that they employ are good enough for them if they are good enough for everyone else - and that doesn't just mean Tyrone and Armagh as others employ as the likes of Kerry, Dublin, Galway etc. are only too happy to play in a similar fashion, bend the rules, get players behind the ball etc. with whatever it takes to get the win. The only thing is that it is curious to see some posters here who often complain about the standard of analysis and "experts" of the Sunday Game regurgitate some of the shíte they come out with.

I think to call it 'defending' doesn't really properly describe the pressure game which is really taking place in mid-field, or if you look at the most famous passage from the 2003 AI semi in the opponent's half. That came from a short Kerry kick-out to a corner back that was kicked on up the wing giving the Tyrone players a chance to crowd the area. Kerry might have been avoiding a normal kick-out as prior to that G Calvin had been cleaning up in mid-field. Keeper's kicking was very bad that day.

[haranguerer]

I think its clear that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. However, it seems a lot of people dont realise this, and think there is 'good' football and 'bad' football. In my eyes, the only distinction is when there are a lot of mistakes, or none.

I'm not a Tyrone fan, but that passage of play, against Kerry, is probably my favourite ever clip from any game. The intensity and will to win is wonderful to behold. For me its much better than Mulligans goal for eg.

[mylestheslasher]

I know the romantic in us would love to see the dreariest county in Ireland lift the Anglo-Celt, but one cannot help but worry about what a victory for the Erne lads says about Ulster football and perhaps the game in general. Anyone who has watched their games this year will testify to the fact that they employ rugby league tactics in its entirety - almost every player behind the ball, working it forward slowly and methodically into a scoring position.

I wouldn't be a deadly Armagh fan but I think a victory for the Orchard would be better for the sake of the game/association and for youngsters learning the game today.

You may have a point - but not when you are a Tyrone Fan. Isn't that how you won 2 all irelands.

[Will Hunting]

ONLY Tyrone and Armagh have consistently got further than Fermanagh in the AI series in the past 5 years. We have beat Down, Monaghan and Derry this year so far (only cause they weren't trying) and we have done it by running the ball up to the goal line and diving over like rugby palyers or by basketball passing up to 2 yrds and fisting it over the bar   What a load of shite

I assume you are talking about Ulster only counties here? I took issue with a similar comment already on this thread, and I would argue that both Donegal and Derry have consistently got further than Fermanagh in the AI series over the last 5 years.

Yeah within the Ulster Counties. You can argue, but its not something I have pulled out of the air. While Derry & Donegal would generally gotten further in Ulster, they would then drop into the qualifiers and usually get beat while Fermanagh sneaked into last 12 or better.
Do you know where can you get the history of results, we could try to find out and find it beyond doubt?

Here's the breakdown since 2003:

Fermanagh:
AIQF - AISemi - Rd1 - Rd4 - Rd2

Donegal:
AISemi - Rd4 - Rd2 - AIQF - Rd3

Derry
Rd3 - AISemi - Rd4 - Rd3 - AIQF

So, there you have it. Not a lot in it, but you certainly couldn't say Fermanagh have out-performed Donegal and Derry in the AI series.