John Mitchel - a lover of slavery - time to remove his name from GAA clubs?

Started by sid waddell, June 09, 2020, 11:20:38 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Baile Brigín 2

Quote from: naka on June 13, 2020, 07:54:57 PM
For me John Mitchell should be looked on Simply upon his views on our problems.
Newry is proud that he stood for the Irish cause.
I agree with that .
So we just ignore the rest of what he did?

Sure then Jimmy Saville deserves a statue for his healthcare fundraising.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on June 13, 2020, 11:00:05 PM
Quote from: naka on June 13, 2020, 07:54:57 PM
For me John Mitchell should be looked on Simply upon his views on our problems.
Newry is proud that he stood for the Irish cause.
I agree with that .
So we just ignore the rest of what he did?

Sure then Jimmy Saville deserves a statue for his healthcare fundraising.

Hmm, paedo and person who advocated slavery are now in the same boat
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Chief

Quote from: naka on June 13, 2020, 07:54:57 PM
For me John Mitchell should be looked on Simply upon his views on our problems.
Newry is proud that he stood for the Irish cause.
I agree with that .

Assuming therefore you're happy enough with statues of Cromwell being erected provided the precise locality (wherever it may be) is fine with it?

I mean he had a lax attitude to indentured servitude and mass murder, but that aside, if you happen to be a fan of English republicanism and want to erect a statue you'd be ok with it yeah?

Mitchell should come down from all public (i.e. state owned) places - simple as that. He was a racist, and as such does not deserve veneration in the form of a statue - regardless of whether it's explained or not.

If people want to equivocate or make apologies for him privately or in their GAA clubs then that's their own business. But they shouldn't expect any shelter from the judgements of society, or history, for such a position.

sid waddell

If John Mitchel is an appropriate person to name GAA clubs after, maybe Tom Humphries could have a camogie club named after him? After all, he did a lot to promote the sport, frequently mentioning it in his columns - and he was a mentor at St. Vincent's.

But you'd have to overlook the, em, child sex abuse he committed while a mentor.

Still, if people are willing to overlook John Mitchel's propagandising for racism and slavery, it shouldn't be too much of a stretch?


whitey

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 13, 2020, 10:57:51 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 13, 2020, 08:35:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 13, 2020, 07:24:19 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 13, 2020, 06:24:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 13, 2020, 04:51:19 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 13, 2020, 04:36:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 13, 2020, 03:59:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 13, 2020, 03:36:00 PM
That's your credible evidence?
As I said, there's pretty strong evidence.....it's up to you whether you believe it or not

Where is this strong evidence because it certainly isn't in the links you posted

There's enough evidence to begin an online campaign to remove his name from Casement Park

Not in those links

LOL-and therein lies the crux of the issue my friend

You don't need evidence, you just need a large and loud enough mob online to start threatening to boycott sponsors etc to get the result you require

(And BTW-I'm just employing the same logic put forth by Sid and J70 for them demanding GAA Clubs disassociate themselves from  John Mitchel)

Haven't read what they said on that subject but before labelling someone a paedophile I would want to see a lot more evidence than what is in those links

Where's this petition online? How many have signed it?

I'm starting it tomorrow

Milltown Row2

Quote from: whitey on June 14, 2020, 12:06:37 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 13, 2020, 10:57:51 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 13, 2020, 08:35:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 13, 2020, 07:24:19 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 13, 2020, 06:24:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 13, 2020, 04:51:19 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 13, 2020, 04:36:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 13, 2020, 03:59:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 13, 2020, 03:36:00 PM
That's your credible evidence?
As I said, there's pretty strong evidence.....it's up to you whether you believe it or not

Where is this strong evidence because it certainly isn't in the links you posted

There's enough evidence to begin an online campaign to remove his name from Casement Park

Not in those links

LOL-and therein lies the crux of the issue my friend

You don't need evidence, you just need a large and loud enough mob online to start threatening to boycott sponsors etc to get the result you require

(And BTW-I'm just employing the same logic put forth by Sid and J70 for them demanding GAA Clubs disassociate themselves from  John Mitchel)

Haven't read what they said on that subject but before labelling someone a paedophile I would want to see a lot more evidence than what is in those links

Where's this petition online? How many have signed it?

I'm starting it tomorrow

Jesus!!!
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Milltown Row2

Quote from: sid waddell on June 13, 2020, 11:44:45 PM
If John Mitchel is an appropriate person to name GAA clubs after, maybe Tom Humphries could have a camogie club named after him? After all, he did a lot to promote the sport, frequently mentioning it in his columns - and he was a mentor at St. Vincent's.

But you'd have to overlook the, em, child sex abuse he committed while a mentor.

Still, if people are willing to overlook John Mitchel's propagandising for racism and slavery, it shouldn't be too much of a stretch?

So again, this is tiresome. We are sticking child abusers and advocates for slavery in the same boat? You may stick Lincoln in that boat also
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

whitey

Quote from: sid waddell on June 13, 2020, 11:44:45 PM
If John Mitchel is an appropriate person to name GAA clubs after, maybe Tom Humphries could have a camogie club named after him? After all, he did a lot to promote the sport, frequently mentioning it in his columns - and he was a mentor at St. Vincent's.

But you'd have to overlook the, em, child sex abuse he committed while a mentor.

Still, if people are willing to overlook John Mitchel's propagandising for racism and slavery, it shouldn't be too much of a stretch?

But here's the part you're missing......John Mitchell absolutely WAS an appropriate person to name a GAA Club after.....135 years ago..... when GAA were very much part of the effort to gain Independence from Britain

But its now part of these clubs history, and it's up to THEM to decide whether to keep it or not.

Personally, I'd call an EGM of members and  have a vote.....let the chips fall where they will

And If you don't want to join or support a club with such a name.....that's up to you, no one is asking or forcing you to join one

whitey

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 14, 2020, 12:29:06 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 14, 2020, 12:06:37 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 13, 2020, 10:57:51 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 13, 2020, 08:35:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 13, 2020, 07:24:19 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 13, 2020, 06:24:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 13, 2020, 04:51:19 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 13, 2020, 04:36:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 13, 2020, 03:59:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 13, 2020, 03:36:00 PM
That's your credible evidence?
As I said, there's pretty strong evidence.....it's up to you whether you believe it or not

Where is this strong evidence because it certainly isn't in the links you posted

There's enough evidence to begin an online campaign to remove his name from Casement Park

Not in those links

LOL-and therein lies the crux of the issue my friend

You don't need evidence, you just need a large and loud enough mob online to start threatening to boycott sponsors etc to get the result you require

(And BTW-I'm just employing the same logic put forth by Sid and J70 for them demanding GAA Clubs disassociate themselves from  John Mitchel)

Haven't read what they said on that subject but before labelling someone a paedophile I would want to see a lot more evidence than what is in those links

Where's this petition online? How many have signed it?

I'm starting it tomorrow

Jesus!!!

LOL-don't worry I'm only joking around

LooseCannon

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on June 10, 2020, 09:35:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 10, 2020, 09:28:19 PM
Aye, Mickey Marley.

Had to google that.

Isn't it odd that very few clubs commemorate working class/labour figures. Always the catholic nationalist side.

Dozens of Pearses. One named after Connolly. And thats in Glasgow.

Are amy GAA clubs named after women who aren't St. Bridget?
St Rynagh's x2 in OY.

sid waddell

Quote from: whitey on June 14, 2020, 12:34:58 AM


But here's the part you're missing......John Mitchell absolutely WAS an appropriate person to name a GAA Club after.....135 years ago..... when GAA were very much part of the effort to gain Independence from Britain

No, he wasn't.

It isn't his activities in the last 135 years that are leading to calls to strip his name from GAA clubs.

sid waddell

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on June 10, 2020, 09:35:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 10, 2020, 09:28:19 PM
Aye, Mickey Marley.

Had to google that.

Isn't it odd that very few clubs commemorate working class/labour figures. Always the catholic nationalist side.

Dozens of Pearses. One named after Connolly. And thats in Glasgow.

Are amy GAA clubs named after women who aren't St. Bridget?

I suppose Michael Davitt would fall into that category. I take the point in general though. The lack of commemoration of James Connolly in the GAA is very odd. Neither is Jim Larkin featured. Well, perhaps not so odd when you consider the influence the Catholic Church had throughout the GAA. The Catholic Church in Ireland was always staunchly opposed to socialism.





whitey

Quote from: sid waddell on June 14, 2020, 12:43:23 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 14, 2020, 12:34:58 AM


But here's the part you're missing......John Mitchell absolutely WAS an appropriate person to name a GAA Club after.....135 years ago..... when GAA were very much part of the effort to gain Independence from Britain

No, he wasn't.

It isn't his activities in the last 135 years that are leading to calls to strip his name from GAA clubs.

He was, otherwise they wouldn't have done it and GAA HQ would not have approved the names

sid waddell

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 14, 2020, 12:32:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 13, 2020, 11:44:45 PM
If John Mitchel is an appropriate person to name GAA clubs after, maybe Tom Humphries could have a camogie club named after him? After all, he did a lot to promote the sport, frequently mentioning it in his columns - and he was a mentor at St. Vincent's.

But you'd have to overlook the, em, child sex abuse he committed while a mentor.

Still, if people are willing to overlook John Mitchel's propagandising for racism and slavery, it shouldn't be too much of a stretch?

So again, this is tiresome. We are sticking child abusers and advocates for slavery in the same boat? You may stick Lincoln in that boat also
I'm not quite sure which category you're attempting to mitigate but, whichever it is, it's really weird.

J70

Quote from: whitey on June 13, 2020, 08:02:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 13, 2020, 07:51:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 13, 2020, 07:24:19 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 13, 2020, 06:24:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 13, 2020, 04:51:19 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 13, 2020, 04:36:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 13, 2020, 03:59:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 13, 2020, 03:36:00 PM
That's your credible evidence?
As I said, there's pretty strong evidence.....it's up to you whether you believe it or not

Where is this strong evidence because it certainly isn't in the links you posted

There's enough evidence to begin an online campaign to remove his name from Casement Park

Not in those links

LOL-and therein lies the crux of the issue my friend

You don't need evidence, you just need a large and loud enough mob online to start threatening to boycott sponsors etc to get the result you require

(And BTW-I'm just employing the same logic put forth by Sid and J70 for them demanding GAA Clubs disassociate themselves from  John Mitchel)

I did not demand that.

Apologies if I misunderstood one of your prior posts

"Personally, I think it is absolutely a matter for the wider GAA, but reasonable people can disagree."

So non club members or a bureaucrat in GAA HQ gets to dictate to a club who've been in existence for 100 years what their name should be?

Let the club and their members make the decision and let everyone else mind their own business

I absolutely think it is a matter for the wider GAA... to discuss and consider. This is a difficult issue for all of the reasons that have been suggested. But the perception and reputation of the GAA is potentially a factor, hence my leaning towards it not just being the affair of an individual club.

However, I didn't demand the removal of his name.